Debates of May 7th, 2004

Taxation

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, again, there is a variety of ways through which the Government of Canada contributes to the funding of health care. We do so through the Canada health transfer and we do so in eight provinces through the money that is provided through equalization. There is a variety of other transfers as well that help the provinces.

We have made it very clear that once the first ministers arrive at a clear understanding about what constitutes sustainability and how we all need to work together to reform the health care system for the future, the Government of Canada will increase its financial participation on top of the $37 billion increase we have already provided.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has said he wanted to differentiate himself from Jean Chrétien and to do things differently. This offers him an excellent opportunity to do just that. Yesterday, the Quebec National Assembly unanimously passed a motion calling for the federal government to transfer the GST in order to correct the fiscal imbalance.

Does the Prime Minister intend to take advantage of this opportunity offered to him unanimously by the Quebec MNAs and does he plan to make his contribution to eliminating fiscal imbalance by transferring the GST to the Government of Quebec?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, again it is a repetition of the same question.

I would point out that the Government of Canada invests a very substantial amount in our public health care system, in the order of $34 billion or $35 billion a year, all things considered. Because of the health care accord in 2003 and the provisions in my most recent budget, we will be increasing the federal commitment by some $37 billion over the next five years. That amounts to an annual increment of 8% per year, every year, ongoing for five years. When we arrive at the agreement on sustainability, there will be more from the Government of Canada.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the government refuses to follow the path set out for it by the National Assembly unanimously, it will be contributing to prolonging the problem. The tools, the means, and the solutions exist.

Is the government aware that, if it refuses to act now, it will again be the patients, the people in need of health care, who will have to pay for this indecision?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting to see Minister Séguin, he who at one time resigned over the TVQ, now asking us to hand over the GST.

In any event, I can say that we are most definitely going to continue to invest in health care. The Minister of Finance has said so, as has the Prime Minister. We will be sitting down with the premiers over the summer and we will determine how best we can support our health system in future. As a government, we are determined to be a real, and predictable, financial partner.

Health

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The Minister of Health says that the Liberal policy on health care is no secret. That is certainly the case now but it was not always so when the Liberals were trying to keep their real policy on health care from Canadians. The Minister of Health revealed some of it a few weeks ago, and now we see more of the connection between Liberals and private delivery of medicare.

The question is not about the Prime Minister. The question is about private for profit MRI clinics. Do these kinds of clinics have a place in the future of health care envisioned by the Liberal Party?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, let me be very clear at the outset that the Prime Minister has never paid for an MRI. Despite all the innuendoes, the Prime Minister has not paid for an MRI. He has always paid with his health card for the medical treatment he needed, like everyone else.

This government wants to continue to build a very strong, publicly funded health care system. We will continue to support the Canada Health Act and every one of the five principles of that act.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that was a totally deceptive and elusive, if not dishonest, answer. I did not say that the Prime Minister paid for an MRI. I did not even raise it.

I asked the minister whether there was a place in the Liberal vision of the future of health care in this country for a private MRI clinic, for private for profit delivery of insured services.

Is there or is there not a place for that in your vision of health care? Answer the bloody question.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Yesterday, the hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona suggested tranquillizers were appropriate in the House. I know he would not want to suggest that there was somehow blood on the floor about the question. That kind of language is slightly intemperate. I know it is a health question but the Minister of Health appears ready to respond. I hope he will not get into that sort of sanguine discussion.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell members that our government stands very firmly on working with the provinces. We will cooperate with the provinces. Next summer, after the first ministers' conference, we will have a very solid plan, a plan that we will develop with the input of the provinces as well. What we want to promote is a public health system in this country, with a single public payer.

[Chuck Strahl, Canadian Alliance, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, here is what the Prime Minister's spokesman Scott Reid said:

All of [the Prime Minister's] treatment...was paid for by either the provincial health-care system or his private health insurance plan

In other words, the Liberal position appears to be public delivery is better but private delivery when necessary.

Why the hypocrisy? Why is it that when the Prime Minister says that he believes in the public delivery of health care it is not good enough for himself and he uses a private clinic?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate again that when the Prime Minister obtains his health services he uses his health card like the rest of us. The Prime Minister does not have an executive health plan.

I would ask the hon. member whether, in addition to his provincially insured health care, he has a supplementary plan.

[An hon. member]

He does through the House of Commons.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Edmonton West, AB]

It is my understanding that all members of the House have supplementary health benefits.

Let me reassure everyone in the House that when the Prime Minister receives health care he uses--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Fraser Valley.

[Chuck Strahl, Canadian Alliance, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the difference is that I am not going to a private MRI clinic. Here is what the Minister of Health said last week:

To put it as plainly as I can, the ambition of the federal government is not to encourage private delivery even within the terms of the Canada Health Act

That is what they say but the Prime Minister himself goes to a private clinic. Let us look at the hypocrisy here. He is receiving treatment from a doctor whose company had revenue of $56 million last year and who believes the rosy future for his clinic is in providing health care delivery services to wealthy corporate clients and people like the Prime Minister.

Why does the government claim to support the public delivery of services when the Prime Minister himself--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, again let me clarify that the clinic in question is publicly accessible to anyone who lives in Montreal. In fact, as I have already indicated, the clinic in question is listed in the information provided by Info Santé. It is listed in local CLSC information as a clinic that provides publicly accessible services.

Let me reiterate again that our Prime Minister obtains his health care like everyone else. He presents his health card. He has no executive health plan.

[Grant McNally, Canadian Alliance, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's real position on health care is finally out and it should come as no surprise to us. Last April he said, “The fact is a substantial portion of our system is already privately delivered”.

However now we know that it is the Prime Minister himself who has access to private health care.

How can the Prime Minister explain his hypocrisy on health care to Canadians?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the only people being hypocritical about where they stand on health care are members of the official opposition, as we hear from the Leader of the Opposition who seems to think that the best system of health care means having a system where we have as many tiers as possible.

This Prime Minister in fact receives his health care services the same way we all do. He presents his health card when he gets health services. The Prime Minister has no executive health plan.

[Grant McNally, Canadian Alliance, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is that government's neglect of the health care system that has created a multi-tier system in this country. Those people across the way are responsible. The fact is that the Prime Minister has access to special health care that is not available to most Canadians through the medicare system.

How can the Prime Minister pretend to be the defender of public health care when he himself is a user of private health care?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, that is a complete fabrication, what the hon. member has just said. As I have said in this House, the Prime Minister obtains his health care the same way we all do. When he goes to his doctor he presents his health card. He goes to a clinic that is publicly accessible. He goes to a clinic that is listed in local CLSC information and with Info Santé. He receives his health care the same way we all do.

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with regard to the sponsorship scandal, the Liberal members of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts said, with a single voice, that they wanted to hear key witnesses. But the opposite is true, in fact. They no longer want to hear witnesses. They want the committee to stop working and produce an interim report as quickly as possible, even rushed through before the election.

Can the government deny that its ultimate goal is to put a lid on this affair and call an election before everyone finds out what really happened?

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that the public accounts committee has heard numerous witnesses over the past nine weeks. The position of the committee has been to get a synopsis and a report of what has happened in the last nine weeks that could be shared with Canadians.

There is no intention of cutting off any witnesses or debate but we have had nine weeks of many witnesses, many hours working through recess weeks to make sure that we had as much data as possible and that should be shared with Canadians.