Debates of Jan. 31st, 2005

Finance

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, while I thank my hon. colleague for her comments, I do have some confusion with respect to coming at this from the perspective of a young Canadian and being worried about the debt and deficit. That seemed to be the focus of the member's speech.

I have with me a report by the Clean Air Renewable Energy Coalition. Its members call themselves a collection of strange bedfellows. In the coalition there are groups like Pollution Probe, the Pembina Institute, Shell Canada, Suncor, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and Friends of the Earth, all calling on the government to put forward a viable and strong Kyoto plan which will lead to the creation of thousands of jobs, with 26,000 jobs in the wind energy sector alone.

If the member is interested in economic viability and, I would imagine, a strong environment for future generations, why has her party has been so opposed to moving forward on the Kyoto file when there is such opportunity available on the economic front, clearly supported by people who have seen the light, as it were? Organizations like Shell, which at one point may have opposed it, are now seeing their way clear to both strong economic and strong environmental performance. Why would her party not be considering pushing the government to get on with it and actually put down a concrete program in the future budget?

I sat in on the budgetary hearings when the environmental groups presented some very concrete numbers and ideas, yet the report that came out had just two lines devoted to the environmental concepts that would also lead to strong economic performances.

Why the resistance? Why not invest in the future? Why not invest in renewables in a serious way and also meet our international obligations, which we have signed on to?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

In fact, Mr. Speaker, our party has a very thorough policy for the environment.

As the hon. member well knows, one of the problems with the Kyoto accord is that it does not address issues of pollution. One thing the Conservative Party brought out in the last election was a proposal to implement a policy called the clean air act. The clean air act proposal dealt directly with practical ideas to clean up air pollution, water pollution and smog. These particular areas are not targeted by Kyoto, so I would suggest that the hon. member is wrong.

The environment is an extremely important priority for the Conservative Party. In regard to the Kyoto accord, we believe that renewable resource energies and policies along those lines in particular need to be looked at as well, but we also believe that there needs to be a very concerted effort to make sure that we have a sustainable industry as well as a sustainable clean environment.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate my colleague on her very well versed and very informative speech. I found it refreshing to hear, as she mentioned, that younger people are focusing on debt and on problems in the country when it comes to paying back debt.

I agree with her fundamentally and it was interesting to hear the question from the member of the NDP. We can focus in on investment, especially strategic investments on the environment, but one way to continue to foster that growth here, which is the argument we have been talking about all along, is in creating the environment for investment so that these companies can continue to meet better targets when it comes to environmental standards, something that the NDP members refuse to even look at. If they would take a moment to look at our plan they would learn a fair amount. I think they should do so.

My hon. colleague talked a lot about youth. She spoke about it very passionately. One of the things that we continuously forget--and I know that it has come up at different times in the past--is the loss of our youth in this country, who are looking for better opportunities and unfortunately leave many parts of the country and even look at the United States as an alternative. It is just a sad thing in this country that we are not creating a competitive environment which would keep some of the talent that was educated here working here.

I would like her to address that. She spoke about it briefly, but could she expand on how we can foster that youth and creativity here instead of losing them to the brain drain elsewhere?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that there is a serious problem, particularly with our age group in the twenties and thirties, who are leaving university after graduation to seek employment elsewhere, particularly in the United States. We see it.

I know the government has suggested that there is no brain drain, but just among my own colleagues, out of eight medical specialists I know seven have gone to the United States to seek employment, and because of taxation issues in particular. It is a major problem.

I think the other thing associated with this for us as we are looking down the line for future generations is debt repayment. We need to be looking at a serious attempt at paying down the debt in a way that is legislated. I think that is important for future generations. When we look at a province like Alberta, which has legislated debt repayment, we see that while there has been pain there has been a lot of gain. We can see that years later.

After years of legislated debt repayment, now we have the opportunity to look at improving the education system in Alberta. Alberta has probably the best health care system. We have an opportunity to look at lowering tuition costs in Alberta. All of these things came with some pain, yes, but with a lot of gain, and a lot of it was done under the eye of long term planning with the legislated debt repayment plan.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for allowing me to speak to the hon. members of this House on Canada's national debt strategy and its advantages for Canadians.

As hon. members are aware, the Government of Canada has recorded a surplus of $9.1 billion for the 2003-2004 fiscal year. In keeping with generally accepted accounting practices, the $9.1 billion went to reduce the federal debt. This was the seventh surplus in a row, which has never happened before in Canadian history.

In 1998, the Government of Canada put an end to a series of 27 consecutive annual deficits. The seven consecutive annual surpluses, coupled with sustained economic growth, have made it possible to substantially reduce the ratio of the federal debt to the gross domestic product. From its highest post World War II point of 68.45% in 1995-96, it was down to 41.1% in 2003-04. This is the most pertinent indicator of the debt burden, since it measures the federal debt against the capacity of Canadian taxpayers to finance it.

Nevertheless, the federal debt-to-GDP ratio remains far higher than the average during the 1970s. Hon. members can well imagine that a heavy debt load puts any country more at the mercy of world interest rate fluctuations.

It is important to note that the cost of the federal public debt represented nearly 19¢ on every dollar of revenue in 2004-04, as opposed to 11¢ some 30 years ago. This ratio is expected to drop to around 18¢ in 2005-06.

We should point out that revenues which go to servicing the debt cannot be used to fund the priorities of Canadians, such as health care or post-secondary education.

It is becoming increasingly necessary to reduce the burden of debt, and thus the interest charges on the public debt, because of the economic and budgetary pressures that will be occasioned by the aging population.

This aging will bring a reduction in the percentage of active workers in the general population in coming decades, which will slow the growth of government revenues.

At the same time, the growing proportion of older persons will weigh heavily on government programs, such as health care and pensions.

The government is categorical: the federal debt ratio must continue to decrease. That is why the budget of 2004 set a goal of reducing the debt-to-GDP ratio to 25% within 10 years, an objective that was reiterated in the throne speech of October 5, 2004.

Thus, the debt-to-GDP ratio will return to the level of the mid-1970s. Similarly, the ratio of the debt service charge to revenue will be reduced to 12% in 10 years, which will free up resources for other priorities.

Let us now talk about the contingency reserve. In order to ensure that the government can carry out its goals, the budget includes a contingency reserve of $3 billion per year. If these funds are not needed, they will be used to pay down the debt.

The contingency reserve reflects the government's commitment to prudent financial management and built the foundation for Canada's recent strategic and economic successes. It has also allowed us to deal with some surprises over the past few years.

In fact it is the surprises that make it clear why we ought to put money aside for emergencies. That is what allowed us to cope with some of the serious financial problems that came with the severe acute respiratory syndrome and mad cow disease, and to provide $1 billion in direct support to farmers to help them overcome the disastrous consequences of mad cow disease and the sudden drop in their incomes.

In addition to the contingency reserve, the 2004 budget re-established a supplementary margin of economic prudence of $1 billion, a sum that will increase over the coming years. If this supplementary margin is not needed during a given year, it will be used to finance the priorities of Canadians.

There has been a distinct improvement in the country's economic and financial situation over the past seven years. Canada now has low and stable interest and inflation rates, strong employment growth, lower foreign debt and a current account surplus.

The federal debt has been reduced by $61.4 billion. In proportion to the size of the economy, the debt is the lowest it has been in 20 years. In that period, marketable debt decreased by $38.5 million.

This debt reduction has given the Government of Canada greater financial stability, reduced its vulnerability to internal shocks and helped the country regain a AAA credit rating.

I want to point out that if we consider all levels of government—federal, provincial and municipal—Canada is the only G-7 country to have posted a surplus in 2003. According to the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, or OECD, Canada should be able to achieve this again in 2004 and 2005.

Canada is the G-7 country that has achieved the greatest budgetary recovery since 1992, especially in paying down its debt.

The debt load of all the levels of government in Canada dropped in 2003 to an estimated 35% of GDP and according to the OECD, it should be the lowest of all G-7 countries in 2004.

The advantages of our efforts over the past seven years to reduce the debt by $61 billion are extremely clear and extremely convincing. We now allocate $3 billion less per year to payments of the interest on this debt.

We will be able to invest this money year after year in the priorities of Canadians, such as health and education, instead of lining the pockets of bondholders around the world.

We must continue to reduce our debt so that fiscal dollars can increasingly be used to improve the lives of Canadians, thus saving us from having to further mortgage our children's future.

A balanced budget is not an end in itself. It is a way to build a better Canada for each and every one of us. A sound financial situation is a prerequisite to strong and sustained economic growth. Strong economic growth means more jobs for more people. It increases federal revenues, thereby allowing us to invest more in the social priorities that have helped us to define Canada as a compassionate nation that listens.

In closing, I affirm the determination of the Government of Canada to ensure that balanced or surplus budgets continue to benefit all Canadians. As we continue to reduce our debt burden, we can invest in national priorities, such as the health accord we just concluded with the provinces and territories, and in other priorities, in Canada and abroad.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his comments. However, it always amazes me when Liberals get up and talk about how they have reduced the debt. They never really tell us how they did it.

I want to remind the member of two things that the Liberals did that offended many Canadians. One was the EI surplus. The Auditor General said herself that it was into the $44 billion mark, but not to worry about it because the money was already gone. A good two-thirds of debt reduction came from the backs of workers and their employers.

The second was the superannuation surplus, which came from the public servants, our veterans, our armed forces personnel, anyone who worked for the public service. In 2000 there was a surplus in that fund. The Liberals took approximately $10 billion to $12 billion of that money and put it against the debt.

All together that is $54 billion. The member talked about a reduction of $61 billion. If only the Liberals would come clean and tell us exactly from where the debt reduction came. I have no question at all about the government having a plan to reduce the debt, getting the government back on its feet. There is no doubt that is a good thing.

The Liberals should be a little less disingenuous. They should tell us exactly where the $44 billion of the EI surplus money went and where the superannuation surplus went. I would be interested to hear the member's comments on that matter.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the question that was asked by my hon. colleague. I want to begin by congratulating him when he concedes the fact that it was a good thing to get rid of the deficit. When the government came into power in 1993, it was facing this massive deficit and was paying interest of $3 billion every year, which was a waste of taxpayer money. Some dramatic action was needed. It was good that our current Prime Minister, then the finance minister, took immediate actions to resolve these issues.

Obviously, we have had a remarkable economy in the last three years. A good part of that has to do with the fact of our good credit rating. The government took charge and ensured that we got rid of the deficit and those heavy payments that were a burden to taxpayers every year. We could not have had or afforded the present deal that was signed with the provinces on both equalization payments and health care. We could not have moved forward with child care if it were not for the measures that were taken some 11 years ago by the then finance minister.

To get our house in order, those measures had to take place. Today we can talk about meeting our Kyoto protocol. Today we can talk about what we want to do about child care. Today we can talk about what we want to do about employment insurance. However, we could not do that back then. We had to take all these measures.

It is to the credit of the Prime Minister, the then finance minister, for taking these very wise measures that have left Canada in a great place in the G-7.

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed listening to my colleague opposite but I want to follow up on the question asked by the member for Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore about the balancing of the budget.

The member gives credit to the Prime Minister, who was the former finance minister. However three main initiatives led to the balancing of the budget. I will throw in a couple of recent ones mentioned by my hon. colleague, which certainly were part of it, the EI surplus and the general surplus were lumped into it. In order to create the general surplus three main initiatives took place since the Liberal government came into power. It talks about inheriting a big deficit, most of which by the way was inherited by the former Conservative government from the former Liberal government.

[Shawn Murphy, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

No.

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South, NL]

A huge percentage.

It still inherited a big deficit. Three main factors took place that addressed that deficit, one being the GST. The GST was a policy brought in by the former Conservative government, campaigned against by the present government but when it won the election it kept the GST. The second factor was free trade, which is the big reason that today we have a balanced budget. The third factor has to do with the tremendous social cuts over the last 10 years.

Which one of those factors does the member think the present Prime Minister, the then minister of finance, can really take credit for?

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as most members are aware, when the Liberals took power in 1993, there was a real economic crisis facing this country, not just to the EI fund, but also to the Canada pension plan fund.

Many young Canadians, including myself, believed that when we retired we would have no pension fund. Today we can rest assure that we do have a fund that is planned for many years to come and it is very well funded. That is because of the measures taken by the government.

We have invested in many projects, We have invested in social services programs, in housing and in the environment. We have in fact been leading the way more so than anywhere else in the world. I think we should be congratulating the government for the measures taken over the years and not criticizing it.

[Michael John Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I completely agree with the member's comments, particularly around debt. Not only have we managed the deficit and now have surpluses in Canada, we are now paying down the debt of the provinces.

Dr. Hamm has announced in Nova Scotia that the $830 million that he has received on the offshore deal will go to pay down the debt in Nova Scotia, a debt that was incurred between 1978 and 1993 by 15 consecutive deficit years under the Conservative government, after eight consecutive budget years of Liberal government.

I think it is a great thing that we have started to take control of the debt and are able to open up some operational funding.

I know the member has been a great champion of the environment from his time on city council in Toronto. I wonder if he has any thoughts as to some environmental initiatives that he would like to see the government undertake in the years to come.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, where I believe we have to take leadership is in the whole renewable energy sector. The hon. member's question gives me the opportunity to talk about the windmill project, an experiment done in Toronto about a year ago. A year later, it has actually paid for itself. These are some of the measures that I think need to be going.

I know the provincial Liberal Government of Ontario is doing an amazing job in terms of renewable energy and wind power. It is something that I believe we have to move on as a country.

Part of fulfilling our Kyoto obligation has to be on renewable energy and I do think there is a great opportunity on wind power. Our government is committed to renewable energy. We made that part of the throne speech and it was part of our campaign platform. I believe that in the budget the government will deliver on the commitments that were promised in the throne speech.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Burnaby—New Westminster.

We in the NDP have a lot to be concerned about as we move forward with the government and what we call its elusive numbers in terms of what really is the surplus.

For years and years various groups and associations, especially our seniors and our children, heard the government say that it did not have the money to help them out but, lo and behold, surprise, it has a burgeoning surplus. It is simply unacceptable that it keeps playing these voodoo hide-and-seek economics with the Canadian people. It simply is not honest of a government to do that with the people. It should tell us exactly, within a very short parameter, what the budget will be.

The finance department has some smart people. We think they deliberately withheld that information in order to look good at the end of the year instead of being able to assist people and give them the honest facts.

On a personal note concerning the budget that will come out on February 22, I would like to see a few things in it. Once and for all I would like to see a shipbuilding strategy out of the Liberal government. The previous finance minister, Mr. Manley, said that shipbuilding was a sunset industry. I know the hon. member for Dartmouth does not believe that because if he did he would not be here today.

The former industry minister, Mr. Tobin, set up a task force of industry, labour and community leaders to come up with a report. The report was not very big but it had solid recommendations to get our shipbuilding industry back on its feet and to hire thousands of people from across the country, not just from Atlantic Canada, but from Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia. We are into the fourth year of that report and absolutely nothing has come from the government. What that tells us in Atlantic Canada is that if we want to replace our military vessels, our coast guard vessels, our ferry fleet or whatever, the government will not do it. It will buy them offshore.

A classic example of that was in the industry minister's riding. The British Columbia Ferry Corporation and the B.C. government tendered a three ferry project of $580 million to a German company. Not one penny of that $580 million will help to create jobs in British Columbia. We have the industry and the workers. It is all there in B.C. ready to go, plus the fact that the government automatically gets 40¢ back on every $1 it invests. We also have the trickle down theory which is that people who make $18 to $22 an hour will spend their wages in their own communities. But no, that opportunity was tendered to a German company.

Our military now needs their AOR vessels replaced. When will those be replaced? There is still no word from the government. Our coast guard vessels need to be replaced. Many people within the industry, including our own Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, have asked for a $360 million over three year investment into capital for the Coast Guard and $160 million per year investment into the operating of that capital. We asked the government when and where that would be done. The government has been silent which gives us quite a confusing message.

We had one minister, John Manley, tells us to forget about the industry, that it was sunset and that we should move on to something else. We had another minister, Mr. Tobin, tells us that he would do a report, and he supported that report. What message are we getting from the Liberal government?

That is just one item. Let us get a little more personal about how the government treats the most vulnerable people in our society, our senior citizens. I am speaking on behalf of Brenda Anderson of Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia. Get this. Hold back, Mr. Speaker, I know you are going to jump out of your seat because you are so happy for her. A few months ago she got an 11¢ increase, not a percentage but an 11¢ increase on her OAS. That was absolutely outstanding. Of course, what happened? Fuel bills went up. Medical bills went up. Assessments went up. The cost of food went up.

Everything else went up around her, but she got 11¢. So we come to the House and we ask the finance minister a very serious question. We asked the minister where she should spend that 11¢ increase. Should it go on prescription drugs, heating fuels, or food? There was no answer from him. He just flipped it off and said they are going to increase it in the next budget, but still no details. I still cannot tell her what to do with that 11¢ increase because now she is further and further in debt.

One million seniors in this country run the risk of going into dire poverty. My colleague from Ottawa Centre has been on the forefront of the battle against child poverty in this country since 1989 and long before that. His motion in 1989 to eliminate child poverty by 2000 was supported by every member of the House at that time. What have we seen? We have seen a fourfold increase in child poverty.

What do the Liberals do? We can give them a little bit of credit. They invented the child tax credit. It is a good thing in theory, but they allow the province of Nova Scotia to claw back every penny of that. They give $100 to a particular family that is in hard times and the province takes it back. Why would the federal government enter into an agreement with a province that allows the clawback of a very necessary item like the child tax credit?

It is all smoke and mirrors with the Liberals. The reality is that the government, since 1993, has put more and more people than ever before in the position of running the risk of losing everything because of their financial concerns, and all they talk about is that they only have so much money to play with. However, it was an amazing thing that in 2000 they gave a $100 billion tax deduction to the very wealthy and to the large corporations.

In fact, just recently they gave additional tax considerations to the oil and gas sector off our coasts. They can give tax considerations to the most profitable in our society, the oil and gas companies, but for once could they not just look into their cold hearts and think that maybe they should start eliminating the tax on home heating fuels in this country?

I just recently got my fuel bill with another $62 in tax. I can afford that, but many people in my riding cannot afford that tax. What we get from the province is that it cannot do anything until the federal government says something. The federal government turns around and says it cannot do anything until the province does something. Where is the leadership in this country? How can they stand in the House and brag about how great everything is when ordinary citizens, the most vulnerable in our society, children and seniors, are having more and more difficulty?

It is bad enough that we have food banks in this country on the rise but now we have school banks. During the school year in September there were facilities set up where people could buy extra pencils and paper so that kids could have equipment to go to school. How can they stand in the House of Commons and brag about burgeoning surpluses and in the next minute live in a society where people have to buy extra pencils and paper so kids can have equipment to go to school? If I was a Liberal, I would be thoroughly ashamed of myself. If we do not look after the most vulnerable in our society, then we have failed as parliamentarians. We have failed considerably.

I also want to mention the concerns of our military. The men and women of our military serve our country with great service and with great admiration. I admire their efforts. We need to give them the tools and clear direction by which to do their job.

Since the days of Brian Mulroney, Mr. Chrétien and so forth, military budgets have been slashed and cut. We need to reinvest in our military. We need to give it the proper equipment it needs. We should not be shutting down bases. I am going to put a plug in for my favourite base, Shearwater. I hope the government will make a decision very soon.

I ask the hon. members for Kings--Hants and Dartmouth and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence to go to the minister and ensure that the decision on the Shearwater air base is turned around. We need to upgrade that base, not downgrade it. We need to tell the men and women of our military that we will give them the tools and equipment with which they can do their jobs effectively so they in turn can do the job that we ask them to do for Canadians. They have the ultimate liability and we as parliamentarians have the ultimate responsibility for their needs.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to return to a question I asked on October 27 last year. Since I asked my question on the sustainability and environment commissioner's report on salmon stocks, habitat and aquaculture, the government has released its long awaited wild salmon policy, and I mean long awaited.

On the Pacific coast, many of the fisheries are facing problems. The top problem is the push towards privatization of the resource by the government's system of licensing and quotas.

Many of the fishing communities along the coast have seen the wealth of their resource transferred out of the community into the hands of armchair fishermen. These are investors who can afford the high cost of buying a licence, who then lease out that licence to real fishers in communities.

It has led to a situation on our coast that the Native Brotherhood of B.C. and the United Fishers and Allied Workers' Union--CAW, detailed in their report “A Rich Fishery or A Fishery for the Rich?”. I will quote from that report. It states:

It would turn a formerly rich fishery into a fishery for the rich, a forced and dictatorial transformation that is against democracy, against communities, and against the national interest in a great and historic resource, on a coast that fishermen helped to build.

Licensing and quota systems also remove the decision-making about the resource from the communities that depend on a sustainable fishery.

The wild salmon policy does talk about socio-economic benefits and that the first nations, fisheries and community interests in salmon stock need to be involved in management actions. However, there is no commitment to stop the changes in ownership of quotas and licences to enable those communities to regain control over their fishing stocks.

Without that community control and interest in salmon stock, the DFO's plan to increase research and monitoring will fail because it depends on local partnerships to collect information instead of trained research staff based in communities. That has already led to gaps in the scientific knowledge of salmon runs. That means a lack of planning and a lack of follow through. The 2004 Fraser sockeye run is a case in point.

DFO officials were very surprised by the amount of salmon returning to the mouth of the Fraser and then they were surprised by how few salmon actually reached the spawning grounds.

As the commissioner's report states, in 2002 users were critical of the data available to manage that year's Fraser River sockeye fishery. There were concerns whether in season estimates of abundance, migration timing and route, stock composition and catch reporting were timely, adequate or accurate.

The wild salmon policy depends on increased monitoring, but funding for fisheries enforcement officers has dropped significantly since the mid-1990s. There are currently only 170 enforcement officers for all of B.C. and Yukon. This is a shameful state of affairs. Meanwhile, there have been calls both in the fisheries committee here in Ottawa and in the communities in B.C. for staff to be moved to the coasts where the resources are located. I think somebody has asked how many wild salmon are in Ottawa.

The NDP will not let the Pacific fishery be taken for granted. Will the minister explain how he will improve staff levels so we can get credible information on salmon stocks, habitats and harvest? Will he commit to increasing the number of fisheries officers on the coast so communities have reliable, accurate and adequate information on all salmon runs from the river mouth right to the spawning grounds?

[Shawn Murphy, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak about Pacific salmon and the B.C. fisheries in general this evening and to respond to the question from the hon. member.

I had the opportunity during the early part of December to travel to British Columbia, where I participated in the hearings on the problems associated with the 2004 Fraser River salmon run. Although I do not agree with the premise of the hon. member's question, I certainly share her concern about the wild Pacific salmon. After all, Pacific salmon make a valuable contribution to the economy, culture and heritage of this nation, particularly in that province. I think it actually goes beyond that. The actual value was $630 million, and that is close to one-quarter of the national total.

I would like to begin by reiterating that in making all of its decisions, the government looks at what is in the best interests of Canadians. Decisions about salmon are no different. We had the situation in British Columbia regarding the advice of the minister not to list the Cultus and Sakinaw sockeye under the Species at Risk Act. This was made after great deliberation.

A SARA listing would have significant economic impacts of more than $125 million in lost revenue to the sockeye fishery by 2008 and would probably lead to the virtual shutdown of the southern British Columbia commercial sockeye industry. This would hit coastal communities very hard, communities such as Nanaimo.

The Department of Fisheries is focusing instead on protecting and rebuilding these populations. The department has already spent approximately $1 million and will continue to do so aggressively to implement the action plan. The protective measures that are in place include substantial reductions in the commercial sockeye fishery implemented under the Fisheries Act.

While I have the opportunity, I would like to say a few words also about aquaculture because that was raised in the original question from the minister. This again is a major industry on the west coast. The total annual aquaculture production in the country has now reached $322 million. That was the 2002 figure. It has become a significant economic activity, but it is one that we have to monitor very closely.

Dealing with some environmental issues, before DFO approval is made, sites must undergo an environmental review under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. This part of an extensive review process governed by both federal and provincial environmental legislation.

There are a couple of other initiatives I want to draw to everyone's attention. The first has already been raised by the hon. colleague, and that is the wild salmon policy which was released approximately one month ago. That provides a clear and consistent framework for the conservation of wild salmon in British Columbia. It is also consistent with SARA and will support its implementation. This was one of the key issues identified by the Commissioner of the Environment in her report.

Finally, Mr. Bryan Williams, a former British Columbia chief justice, is leading a review of all salmon fisheries in southern B.C., including the Cultus and Sakinaw sockeye. The review is open and independent and will provide timely advice on fisheries management.

I am thankful for the opportunity to participate in this important debate about the salmon industry on our west coast.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it would have been nice to get an answer to my question, which is, where are the resources for the communities in British Columbia? We know very clearly that a wild salmon policy was released. Where are the dollars? Without the fiscal framework for this kind of wild salmon policy, it is virtually useless. It is more smoke and mirrors.

Aquaculture is a really good example, and I thank the hon. member for raising the issue. The sustainability commissioner's report actually pointed out the fact that the big problem with aquaculture is there is no environmental assessment on its impacts. It may have an economic spinoff in the community, but we want to know what it is doing to our wild salmon stocks. That information is missing.

I again want to come back to the resources that are attached to the fishery. There was a Canadian human rights report that talked about DFO's shocking attitude toward women, so we would appreciate if there was a more--

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

[Shawn Murphy, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, this issue was continually raised. The headquarters of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is in Ottawa. My colleagues from the east coast suggest that it should be moved to the east coast and my colleagues from the west coast suggest it should be moved to the west coast. I should point out to the hon. member that only about 10% or 11% of the employees of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans are located here in Ottawa. They are in every coastal community in the east coast, the west coast, and I should point out, the Arctic coast in the territories.

I know there are concerns out there about enforcement, about science and about management. It is a tremendously large industry. The member is probably correct; it could probably stand more resources. I am hopeful it will receive more resources in the upcoming budget.

The department is doing a good job in managing our fisheries.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, of the many scandals that have plagued the Liberal government since it came to power in 1993, one of the most disgusting was the stripper scandal that took place in November and December last year. The minister of immigration has since resigned, not out of any respect for ministerial responsibility, but to try to save her own political career.

There have been many contradictions from the then minister of immigration as well as from many government officials. We have seen the disgusting habits of ministerial staff doing business in strip clubs to get those permits issued for erotic dancers.

Canadians need to have confidence in their government in every department. The government has allowed legitimate immigrants to wait for unacceptable lengths of time while erotic dancers are fast tracked into this country.

In November the former immigration minister said in the House, “I was going to bring a book with me, which is thick, full of all the requests I get from all members of the House” for intervention in immigration cases.

In December I asked the former minister to please table the book and a list of all ministerial interventions broken down by riding or postal code. This has not yet been done. Just because the former minister was forced to resign in disgrace does not mean that the House should not see this alleged book or a list of ministerial permits granted.

I would like to know if the new Minister of Citizenship and Immigration is in possession of the book, or has it mysteriously disappeared? Canadians have a right to know how many ministerial permits were issued, especially during the election campaign, and in which ridings they were granted. Is there a disproportionate number of permits granted to immigrants in ridings held by Liberal MPs? That has been raised, I think. The confidence of Canadians has been shattered because of the scandal. It would not be out of the realm of the possible for that to go on in the government.

I would like the new minister to respond to that. Let the House know, will such a report of ministerial permits granted, broken down by riding, be tabled so that all Canadians can know what went on in the immigration department?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I want to focus on the substance of the hon. member's question and to thank him for allowing me to shed some light on this issue. At the same time it helps to highlight the very important role that temporary resident permits play in allowing Canada to uphold its tradition as an open and caring society.

Each of us is well aware of the many requests we receive as MPs to intervene in a particular case, all of which may appear worthy of consideration. The minister, however, will issue a permit in cases where there is a compelling reason to do so and where the risk to Canada is minimal.

The number of temporary resident permits issued varies from one year to another. Over the 12 month period from December 12, 2003 to December 11, 2004 the former Minister of Citizenship and Immigration authorized a total of 690 instructions for the issuance of temporary resident permits for 902 people. Those 690 permits out of a total of 12,037 temporary resident permits issued in 2004 is approximately 5% of all temporary resident permits issued by the department.

The department does not keep statistics on the issuance of permits by electoral district, nor does the department keep records on the number of clients who choose to be represented by immigration lawyers and consultants in their dealings with the department.

Pertinent to the member's question, hon. members should know that the Privacy Act prevents the department from tabling any information about these applications or permits without the consent of the individuals concerned. Members should also know that records are only kept on each case according to which authorizing officer issues a temporary resident permit and according to the broader geographical area.

The fact is that over 90% of permits are issued by officers both at ports of entry and overseas. This is done on a case by case basis. Therefore it is impossible to break these down by riding.

I thank the hon. member for his question and for allowing me to clarify this misperception and bring this important matter to the attention of the House.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I want to point out that this case has nothing to do with legitimate immigrants. This has nothing to do with Canada's tradition of welcoming new people to become citizens of our country. This has to do with the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration fast tracking strippers after the minister's staff had visited those strip clubs and all the many allegations that were thrown out.

The hon. member has instructed us as to what the policies of the department are in regard to keeping records. I am sure as we speak we can know that those applications either have an address in Canada or have someone who has approached the member who had an address in Canada which would of course have a postal code and which would of course be very simple to break down by riding.

I doubt that this would have anything to do with personal information. It would just be a statistical number without revealing any pertinent facts about the applicants themselves but would let us know how many in each riding.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada has a duty and an obligation to act in a responsible and transparent manner. That is why we have set it up so that we cannot read the persons by their riding. This is what we have done with the matter before us.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada keeps records for the number of temporary resident permits issued each year according to authorizations. This number is available to all members of the House as well as to the public through the Government of Canada's annual immigration plan. I would ask the hon. member to seek that information there.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at ten o'clock, pursuant to Standing Orders 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:47 p.m.)