Debates of April 22nd, 2005

1995 Referendum

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Corbeil has made a number of allegations. He will ultimately be called before the Gomery commission. We need the judgment of Judge Gomery to determine the facts. He will compare the testimony of every witness against other testimony and will determine the facts.

Government of Canada

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the government.

Yesterday the Prime Minister said on national TV that he wants Parliament to work. The NDP wants Parliament to work and has made a number of suggestions. Parliament has made a number of suggestions.

I wonder if the Minister of Finance, who seems to be answering for the government today, can tell us whether there is going to be a change in attitude and whether the government can commit now to enacting those things that Parliament has passed, which as of today the government has yet to implement and in fact has ignored.

The minister knows the motions I am talking about. Will Liberals now commit to doing what Parliament has said the government should do?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday in response to a question from the hon. gentleman's leader, I would be more than happy to examine any specific suggestions that he or the NDP has to make.

Obviously the government has laid out the principles upon which we intend to proceed through, originally the throne speech and then the budget. If the opposition has suggestions, particularly if the NDP has suggestions, I would be more than happy to see specifically what they are.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is confusing questions. I am not talking about what my leader asked yesterday about the budget. I am talking about what Parliament already told the government to do.

Maher Arar Inquiry

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

My supplementary question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

It has to do with evidence that the Government of Canada knew that Maher Arar was in Syria and instead of being concerned about whether he was being tortured, all it could do was demonstrate an interest in the information that was being gathered through torture instead of inquiring as to how that information was being obtained.

Is the government not embarrassed by this and will it at least say today that this kind of thing will never happen again?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman will know that we have established a public inquiry. Mr. Justice O'Connor is in charge of that inquiry. We have every confidence that Mr. Justice O'Connor has both the mandate, and all the skill and professional expertise to ensure that this matter is thoroughly ventilated, as the hon. gentleman would want.

Sponsorship Program

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Benoît Corbeil, the former director general of the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party of Canada from January 1999 to 2001, told us that a 90-minute meeting was held in January or February 2002 with the Prime Minister, as requested by phone by Lucie Castelli, the Prime Minister's riding assistant. It happened. Such is the reality.

Why did the Prime Minister not tell Justice Gomery the whole truth?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Corbeil did meet with the Prime Minister at that meeting. He indicated to the then finance minister that he would not be supporting him during the leadership race of 2003. Frankly, given what Mr. Corbeil has indicated he has been involved in, we are very pleased with that decision because the Prime Minister of Canada plays politics very differently than the way Mr. Corbeil plays politics.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Corbeil tells us the meeting took place at the behest of Lucie Castelli on behalf of the Prime Minister. Lucie Castelli was involved in sponsorship; Mr. Corbeil was involved in sponsorship.

How can the government expect Canadians to continue to believe that the Prime Minister himself was not also personally involved in sponsorship?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, how can the Conservatives expect Canadians to believe a party whose communications director compares the Prime Minister of Canada to a terrorist and murderer, Osama bin Laden? How can they expect Canadians to believe them when their leader says that the Prime Minister of Canada supports child pornography?

If their leader had one-tenth of the integrity of our Prime Minister, he would stand in the House and apologize to Canadians, and apologize to the Prime Minister.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said that Canadians should wait about eight months before they make up their minds on ad scam. It did not take him that long to figure out that public funds had been misused, that public funds had been wasted and, in short, that this is an unjustifiable mess.

I bet it took the Prime Minister about eight minutes to figure that out. Why does he think Canadians need eight months to figure out the same thing?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, let us review what the Prime Minister has done in this matter.

He, himself, voluntarily and very quickly upon receiving the report of the Auditor General launched the Gomery commission. He cancelled the impugned sponsorship program on his very first day in office. He eliminated the agency that ran the program. He ordered the release of 12 million pages of normally confidential internal documentation. He launched legal action against 19 defendants to recover public money. He strengthened the rules on ethical standards and he restored the office of Comptroller General. That is action.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said he is sorry about misspent public funds. There is one thing for which he has not apologized. All the evidence shows that the Liberal Party did everything in the province of Quebec in the last election to ignore all the rules and to, in short, buy the results of the last election.

My party and others ran candidates who were honest and who abided by the law. What chance did they have running against candidates who were bankrolled by a corrupt Liberal establishment?

I want to know, when will the Liberals apologize to all the honest candidates who ran in the last election in Quebec?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order, please. There seems to be a lot of other conversations going on around the questions being asked and answers being given. The Minister of Public Works and Government Services has the floor to answer the question.

Perhaps the hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam would calm down so we can hear the answer. I ask the hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam to control himself. The hon. Minister of Public Works has the floor.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, when will that party apologize for comparing the Prime Minister of Canada to a mass murderer and a terrorist? When will that party apologize for saying that the Prime Minister of Canada supports child pornography?

The harder members opposite try to smear the reputation of the Prime Minister, the more they smear their own because Canadians know that our Prime Minister is a man of integrity, decency and honesty. Canadians know that they can trust our Prime Minister to get to the truth and they cannot trust that party over there.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Prime Minister was asked in this House why he fired Alfonso Gagliano, the Prime Minister said the purpose of his decision was to protect Canada's image abroad, and that it was not a judgment on the former ambassador's behaviour in the sponsorship scandal. Yet, yesterday on television, in his address to the public, he clearly cited the dismissal of Gagliano, a Liberal, as a response to the sponsorship scandal.

Can the Prime Minister tell us which of the two versions is the right one?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has always been very clear. All ambassadorial appointments abroad are “at the pleasure of the government”, as we say. In the case of the ambassador to Denmark, the pleasure of the government had reached its limit. Accordingly, given the allegations and that the country's reputation was at risk of being affected in the time it would take for the Gomery inquiry to clarify the facts, the ambassador was recalled. Such is the reality.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the Prime Minister admit that the sponsorship scandal has less to do with Alfonso Gagliano and more to do with the entire Liberal network, as admitted by Benoît Corbeil, the former director general of the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, this question really gets to the fundamental reason for why we have the Gomery commission. A very large number of allegations have been made. The Gomery commission was struck by the Prime Minister himself to get to the bottom of all those allegations, to hear all the witnesses, to determine the facts and to make recommendations as to what the appropriate consequences ought to be.

The Gomery commission is vital to the determination of this matter and it must complete its work.

[Guy Côté, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister says he hardly knows the Boulays, whom he describes as mere acquaintances. However, Diane Deslauriers says that she saw the Prime Minister daily during the 1993 election campaign.

In light of Diane Deslauriers' statements, does the Prime Minister still maintain that Claude Boulay and Diane Deslauriers were just acquaintances?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been very clear on this. In fact, his statements have been entirely consistent on this and not inconsistent with the spirit or the specifics of the statements from Madame Deslauriers and Mr. Boulay.

What they are doing is trying to find a scintilla of fault or problem with testimony when in fact they know they are drawing the wrong conclusions. They are doing anything they can to smear the reputation of the Prime Minister because they know our Prime Minister stands tall as the leader who has the best reputation of any federal leader in Canada.

[Guy Côté, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is something else we want to verify. Benoît Corbeil says that he had a meal with the Prime Minister and Joe Morselli in 2002 at Chez Frank, a restaurant.

Can the Prime Minister confirm this statement by the former director general of the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, any allegations Mr. Corbeil has he ought to make before the Gomery commission and, as such, he will be able to do that and those allegations will be considered along with other testimony in the coming weeks and months by Justice Gomery. He will analyze those statements, will consider contradictory testimony in many cases and, at the end of the day, provide Canadians with a reasoned, rational approach and the truth, which is what our Prime Minister stands for, getting the truth for Canadians.