House of Commons Hansard #102 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think that the intervention is a little bit off the mark in that the question was speaking clearly to the agenda of that committee. The fact that the minister was choosing not to turn up at the committee, the committee could not even set its agenda. Clearly, the question was on the topic of the agenda which is the point that the member just rose on.

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate our party's support for the point or order raised by the member for Peterborough. However, he ignored the fact that the first time the question was asked, it came from the NDP leader. It was a proper question because it dealt with the issue of how the committee functions, its schedule, et cetera, and was more of a technical question. I want to support his position. The two questions that were asked by the official opposition I believe were also out of order.

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, as I have just said, and you are aware, as the chair of the public accounts committee I have had one or two questions from the leader of the New Democratic Party.

At least you will note, Mr. Speaker, that when questions are asked of the chairs of committees, especially from this side, we give fulsome and real answers, but we never get an answer from the government. Therefore, these questions are not only in order but helpful to the assembly.

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

The Speaker

I thank all hon. members for their interventions on this point. The Chair very much appreciates support for the Standing Orders which the Chair is bound to enforce in the House.

Yesterday there was a question, which the Chair ruled out of order, addressed to the member for Vegreville—Wainwright by the hon. member for Elgin—Middlesex—London. Today, I thought there was an improvement on yesterday's question in terms of it dealing with the business of the committee, which, as the hon. member for Peterborough correctly pointed out, is what the questions should be concerned about. The difficulty was that in his submission he suggested that the answers had to do the same thing.

Our Standing Orders state that the question has to concern the business of the committee, but the chair of the committee, having been asked the question as ministers tend to do, could talk about things other than the specifics of the question. I can see that the hon. member was upset at the fact that the committee chair seemed to go on about subjects perhaps totally different from the one specifically raised in the question. He may have gone beyond that, but I do not think it is for the Chair to enforce that kind of restriction on answers. If I were to do so, I might cut members' answers short, which I know the House leader for the official opposition would be appalled at.

I will refrain from that, but I will certainly continue to look at questions to ensure that they are concerning the business of the committee. I had made that representation after the point of order was raised yesterday. I did not make a ruling because I spoke to both hon. members who raised it and indicated my dissatisfaction with the question.

It was corrected today. It was a borderline question, but I thought it met the exigencies of our practice, which is to require that the question deal with the business of the committee and not a question about what went on in the committee. It is to deal with its agenda and business. I thought the question, by a narrow margin, met the exigencies of the Standing Order today. I will review the other one the member raised with me, but I did rule yesterday's out of order.

I appreciate the support the hon. member for Peterborough has offered and the support of the hon. members for Windsor—Tecumseh, Edmonton—St. Albert and Kootenay—Columbia, who all support the Chair in their efforts to ensure that the questions asked are proper in the House.

(Bill S-25. On the Order: Private Members' Business:)

May 10, 2005--Second reading and reference to a legislative committee of Bill S-25, an act to amend the act of incorporation of The General Synod of the Anglican Church of Canada--The Member for Victoria.

Anglican Church of Canada ActOral Question Period

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

David Anderson Liberal Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, there have been discussions among the parties and I believe you would find unanimous consent for the following motion. I move:

That Bill S-25, an act to amend the act of incorporation of The General Synod of the Anglican Church of Canada, be deemed to have been read a second time, referred to a committee and reported to the House without amendment, concurred in at the report stage, read a third time and passed.

Anglican Church of Canada ActOral Question Period

3:10 p.m.

The Speaker

Does the hon. member for Victoria have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?

Anglican Church of Canada ActOral Question Period

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Anglican Church of Canada ActOral Question Period

3:10 p.m.

The Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Anglican Church of Canada ActOral Question Period

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the second time, considered in committee, reported, concurred in, read the third time and passed)

Message from the SenateOral Question Period

3:10 p.m.

The Speaker

I have the honour to inform the House that a message has been received from the Senate informing this House that the Senate has passed certain bills, to which the concurrence of this House is desired.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-43, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 23, 2005, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the motion that this question be now put.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Government Orders

May 19th, 2005 / 3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Discussions have taken place between all parties concerning the vote just requested on the previous question motion from the member for Saint John to second reading of Bill C-43. I believe you would find unanimous consent for the following order. I move:

That the motion from the member for Saint John, that this question be now put, on second reading of Bill C-43 be deemed carried on division.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Government Orders

3:10 p.m.

The Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Government Orders

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Government Orders

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, discussions have also taken place regarding Bill C-43 and I believe you would find unanimous consent for the following order. I move:

That a recorded division be deemed requested on the main motion for second reading of Bill C-43 and deferred to later this day at the end of government orders.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Government Orders

3:15 p.m.

The Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Government Orders

3:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Division on motion deemed requested and deferred)

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-48, an act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments, be read the second time and referred to a committee; and of the motion that this question be now put.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Lapierre Bloc Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-48 is in fact nothing more than a manifestation of the NDP's grievances with the federal budget, on the pretext, among other things, that it did not consider the social measures it contains to be equal to Canadians' needs. It then went on to hold out the possibility of an alliance with the Bloc Québécois and the Conservative Party if the budget were not reworked to their satisfaction.

Given that ultimatum, and the precarious status of the Liberal Party, a scenario was concocted in order to satisfy the NDP's demands by enhancing the scope of Bill C-43. This agreement in principle translates into reinvestments in the order of a total $4.5 billion over two years for social housing, education, the environment, international aid and protection of seniors' pensions. As well, the Liberals would temporarily step back from corporate tax breaks.

Now there is a fine wish list.

I have my doubts. Unfortunately, I do not believe it. It is a fact that it would be a very good thing to improve the sectors I have referred to. Everything we can get out of the government, we will take. But wait.

Why, assuming that they were sincere, did they not just amend the budget implementation bill, namely Bill C-43? Why have another bill? How can they commit themselves to two different things at the same time? Have my hon. friends developed the gift of ubiquity?

First, specific measures are established through the passage of Bill C-43, and corporations enjoy a substantial tax cut. Then a contradictory measure is proposed that can only sow dissatisfaction in the ranks of manufacturers—dissatisfaction that can lead, as we well know, to the withdrawal of funding from the party in power. That is the risk that they do not want to run. Bill C-48 does not meet the NDP's demand that the tax cuts for business be cancelled. Bill C-48 is conditional on the government running surpluses. Conditional—therefore without any real significance.

Even the leader of the NDP acknowledged in this House that the simple act of not making those tax cuts could create a surplus and therefore prevent it all from happening.

They try to take us to 2008 to justify keeping this measure in the original budget. The Minister of Finance himself offered this interpretation to the leader of the New Democratic Party in answer to a question in this House. What lovely evasion! What sleight of hand!

The government does not want any amendments to its budget because that would confirm a measure that is unpopular with an elite that has a long reach and is very powerful.

Let us look at other provisions in the extra budget. There is an additional $900 million for the environment. That could be interesting. Unfortunately, this melody is playing in a minor mode. Despite the importance of the sectors that were identified, namely public transit and energy efficiency, this additional money will not produce convincing results. The gist of it is bad.

The famous Project Green, announced last April 13, is like Swiss cheese. The polluter—the oil and gas industry—is paid through subsidies, while the government still refuses to encourage people to use public transit by making the cost of their passes tax deductible.

And yet these people are doing something concrete for the environment. The people responsible for half the greenhouse gas emissions should logically be forced to come up with an effort proportional to the damage that they do. Instead, the financial burden is shifted to the taxpayer.

If we extrapolate, the cost of a bus pass has just trebled.

And on top of that, this budget provision on the environment infringes on areas under the jurisdiction of the provinces and Quebec, such as public transit. Whatever works.

Quebec's greenhouse gas emission profile differs significantly from that of the other provinces. Why would it be penalized for being cleaner? It should instead be congratulated and encouraged and get its fair share of the tax base provided for implementing the Kyoto accord in order to improve its performance.

Under the circumstances, Quebec should have the funds to enable it to choose what best suits its plans for the future. The approach should be territorial, as the Bloc has already suggested in this House. Otherwise, the government should grant full financial compensation.

Holes in cheese give it some style, but do not improve its flavour. In other words, I prefer Swiss cheese to Project Green. We can take pleasure in the fact that some low income earners will perhaps be able to improve the energy capacity of their homes Maybe, we will see.

In the area of social housing, the government is in a sorry state. It consistently remains far below the level of the needs and therefore the expectations of social groups. While the official budget made no provision in this vital area, the government is now offering $1.6 billion for two years. Investment would certainly be welcome.

The Bloc, however, is calling for a progressive investment over three years, in order to reach an acceptable peak of nearly $2 billion a year. The demand is realistic and necessary. The urgency of the situation has been amply demonstrated by the growth in need since this government took office.

The amounts conceded to the NDP must not be the subject of electoral blackmail, but rather serve the most disadvantaged.

Housing responsibilities and the corresponding budgets must be sent to Quebec as quickly as possible.

If we look at the proposal on education and post-secondary education, we can see yet again that it is open to blackmail. It is all the more unacceptable because we, along with the Government of Quebec, are calling for federal funding for education to be 25% of spending. The political agreement with the NDP is unsatisfactory, because the $188 million Quebec might receive is paltry compared with the $12.2 it spends.

The federal government's commitment to international assistance remains clearly inadequate. While assistance in any amount is welcome, an additional $500 million will not change the fate of the planet. We absolutely need a long term plan to achieve the international target of 0.7% of GDP by 2015. It is outrageous for a rich country like Canada to claim not to be able to achieve the minimum before 2033.

Obviously, it cannot be any other way with the 8% annual increase proposed by the government. That is a disgrace. We are proposing an increase of 12% per year for three years and 15% per year after that, up to 2015. If the NDP is prepared to settle for $500 million, so be it, but I am not.

So, what does Bill C-48 do for my own riding?

Cull producers will continue to suffer because of the underfunding with respect to the mad cow issue. Only fair compensation could have made things better for them. The problem is still there for beef producers.

Would there be any possibility of providing recovery assistance to our shipyard, which, hon. members should know, is a major economic engine for my riding? There is nothing in the budget or Bill C-48. Canada would have much to gain, however, from a real shipbuilding policy.

Was the Summer Career Placement program in my riding designed on the basis of real needs, and is the funding allocated adequate? Certainly not, since an indefensible cut was made to the program.

Is there anything for the tourism and leisure industry, which is a path for the future? No.

Has the funding earmarked for the community sector, which is essential in our area like in any other, been increased? Again, no.

So, to Bill C-48 I humbly say, no, thank you.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by congratulating my colleague on his excellent and very clear speech on Bills C-43 and C-48.

I would like to have some comments from him on this virtually ingrained reflex of the federal government—particularly when it is Liberal—to want to interfere in areas that are under the jurisdiction of Quebec.

They want us to think—and this has gone on for decades, more than a century I would say even—that the federal government knows more about public administration than Quebec's elected representatives.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Lapierre Bloc Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his comments, which give me an opportunity to point out that among some of the specific, recognized areas in Quebec, we have highly rated child care centres. We are in the process of developing wind energy, a resource previously underestimated across the country.

We have no regrets about our own hydroelectric development. Our aerospace industry is on the cutting edge and our agricultural sector is second to none.

Thus, every political party in Quebec—and as far as I know at least two are federalist—are calling for complete independence in every one of our jurisdictions. These days especially, I highly doubt we have to take any lessons from the federal government on how to run our own affairs.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Mr. Speaker, during the hon. member's speech he mentioned the summer career placement program and made a very good point about the importance of that program. It is very important to people in my riding where, every summer, students find employment and every summer, community agencies institute important programs. It is something on which the community depends.

In my riding the program took a 10% cut while in other ridings it took a 50% to 60% cut. This is something that came up, as far as I know, after the budget and it is something we need to correct because it is a very important program.

It has been an important program in rural areas to help stop rural depopulation. It was a way of bringing students back to communities for the summer. It was a very important part of maintaining populations in those communities.

I just want to ask the member what initiatives he might be prepared to take to work on that issue now that we know the problems with it.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Lapierre Bloc Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. I had the misfortune of experiencing a 30% plus cut in the program in question. Yesterday I was informed that a correction would be made in order to somewhat restore the amount to the level allocated last year. The fact remains that despite any corrections, my riding is still receiving less for this program than it did last year.

I totally agree that this program should be improved for our students in the regions. This is an issue to some extent in my riding as well. Young people go away for school all year and when they come home to their village, we do not have the money we need to provide them with a source of income or a way to eventually enter the labour market in their own region.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Richmond Hill Ontario

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise on Bill C-48, particularly given the fact that the government has had eight balanced budgets or better. Canada is the only G-7 state paying off its national debt. We have been able to do that because of good fiscal management. That is what has characterized the government and its ability to invest in the social priorities of Canadians.

Clearly the budget Bill C-48 is important in terms of ensuring that the social foundations which are key to Canada's identity are enhanced. They are enhanced in Bill C-48. This is a natural extension of the initiatives the government has pursued over the last few years. It is clear that the priorities of Canadians are to ensure that we have affordable housing, post-secondary education, a good environment and foreign aid. That is what the budget in particular and the bill deal with.

We are investing in a way that ensures we do not in any way affect the financial gains that we have made as a nation over the years. We will never go back into a deficit. That has been a commitment of the government. At the same time, it is because we have managed well that we are able to make these important investments for Canadian families, cities and communities. That is extremely important in terms of the fiscal foundation.

The government is committed to spending $4.6 billion on these investments which will be financed through fiscal reserves that are in excess of $2 billion in 2005-06 and in 2006-07. A guarantee of $4 billion over these two years will be committed to pay down the national debt. This is extremely important. We are the envy of the western world. We are the envy of those whose major concern is how to deal with balancing the books. In our case, we have the ability not only to pay down the debt but also to make these important investments.

One of the areas is affordable housing. The bill proposes $1.6 billion for affordable housing. It is very important to note that this is not tied to matching funds from the provinces. It also includes aboriginal housing. This builds on government investments totalling $2 billion in the homeless and affordable housing over recent years.

In 1999 the government launched the three year national homelessness initiative. A key element of this was the supporting communities partnership initiative which provided $305 million for local community groups to offer support services and facilities for the homeless.

Budget 2003 provided a three year extension of that initiative at $135 million. Furthermore, budget 2001 announced $680 million over five years for the affordable housing initiative to help stimulate the creation of more affordable units. Bilateral cost sharing agreements were subsequently signed with all 13 jurisdictions in Canada. A top-up of $320 million over five years was announced in budget 2003, bringing the total federal investment in affordable housing to $1 billion over six years.

The government continued to do more in budget 2003. It announced a three year renewal of the government's housing renovation programs at a cost of $128 million a year.

In addition, the government currently spends $1.9 billion per year in support of existing social housing units. Who could be against that? It is an investment for Canadians. Clearly when members look at themselves in the mirror, they will realize that this is important for Canadians as a foundation. Social housing has played an important role in Canada. I cannot believe anyone would contemplate voting against it.

The bill also provides $1.5 billion to increase accessibility to post-secondary education. We have heard a lot in the House about the needs of students. Although the Government of Canada does not deal with the issue of tuition, it can, and in the bill does, assist students who come out of university having acquired significant debts, particularly low income families. As well there is training money to supplement labour market agreements.

Since balancing the budget, the government has provided significant new funding in support of post-secondary education through increased transfer support to provinces and territories and increased direct support to students and universities. We are ensuring that future generations will be able to come out of university in much better financial shape. I cannot believe that anyone in the House would not support assistance for students.

The government continues to transfer support for post-secondary education through the Canada social transfer, a block transfer to provinces and territories. Each province and territory is responsible for allocating federal support according to its respective priorities within that jurisdiction regarding post-secondary education and other social programs.

Overall, the Canada social transfer will provide $15.5 billion in 2005-06 and more than $8 billion in legislated cash levels and $7 billion in tax points. In addition, the Government of Canada provides about $5 billion annually in direct support for post-secondary education, and among other things, helps families save for their children's education.

When we look at that, we really wonder how anyone could not support that kind of assistance for students anywhere in this country. I would be really surprised to see any member stand up and have the audacity to say that he or she cannot support students. Why would members not support students? Why would they not be investing in our future?

When it comes to the environment, the government has been a leader. The Minister of the Environment, along with the Minister of Natural Resources and the Minister of Industry, unveiled the most aggressive climate change plan in the G-7.

Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

An hon. member

In the world.