House of Commons Hansard #58 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was sudan.
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
Mr. Chair, I obviously agree with my hon. colleague opposite. One of the points I made is that we need to prepare the troops today. We need to get that force ready and prepared to go in there. While we are pursuing diplomatic channels, we also have to ensure that our military is getting ready for that mission.
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga.
I would like to begin by noting that the events of the past few weeks are seriously troubling. No one is trivializing that. Violence and insecurity continue to plague the people of Darfur, even those who have sought refuge in IDP camps as well as in eastern Chad. This continuing violence is unacceptable.
Greater progress needs to be made in the Darfur peace agreement, including implementation by the parties and bringing non-signatories on board. The parties to the agreement and the non-signatories should engage in a coordinated process to achieve this. Canada stands ready to do its part. In fact, Canada has already done a lot.
Canada has played a central diplomatic role, working closely with the African Union and partners to broker an agreement during the final days of those negotiations. That led to the signing of the Darfur peace agreement. We provided diplomatic, financial and expert support to the African Union throughout the peace process.
The Darfur peace agreement that emerged from these negotiations and an early transition to a UN-led mission remain the best hope for peace in Darfur. It is a tragedy for the people of Darfur that some of the movements that purport to represent those people remain content to let that hope slip away.
Throughout this period of transition, Canada has remained a steadfast supporter of the African Union mission in Sudan. We look forward to continuing to work with the African Union to ensure the most robust and effective use of available resources and we welcome the short term and long term plans of the UN to strengthen that mission in preparation for the transition to a UN force and to facilitate the implementation of the Darfur peace agreement.
Canada is encouraged by the United Nations' recent announcement, following Security Council resolution 1706, that it would work to support the enhancement of AMIS as a first step toward full transition. The African Union is supportive of this effort.
We continue to call on the government of Sudan, in the strongest possible terms, to cooperate with the international community to urgently facilitate this request from both the African Union and the United Nations to end the suffering of the people of Darfur.
Canada continues to call on the international community to maintain support for an enhanced African Union mission during the transition period. Pending a UN mission, the African Union mission provides some welcome protection for civilians in Darfur, not enough, but some.
The African Union mission has been a groundbreaking exercise for that organization and it has accomplished some progress under difficult circumstances. Nearly 7,700 military and civilian police personnel are currently deployed in Darfur.
Canada has taken a leading international role, providing important support to the African Union peacekeeping force in Darfur. To assist the African Union, Canada has provided to the mission over 100 armoured personnel carriers and APC driver training. It has established an intermediate staging base and training centre in Dakar, Senegal, to provide training to African Union soldiers via a “train the trainer” program, and more than 150 African Union soldiers from Senegal, Nigeria and Rwanda were trained on operating the vehicles.
We have sent $1.4 million worth of personal equipment such as helmets, protective vests and maps, 25 helicopters, two fixed-wing aircraft and fuel to fly them, and military and civilian police advisers and expert planners to assist the African Union in planning and logistics.
This is all part of a comprehensive support package to the African Union. Since 2004, Canada has committed $190 million to the African Union mission in Sudan, including our most recent announcement of $20 million to strengthen the ability of AMIS to implement the Darfur peace agreement and set the necessary conditions for a transition to a United Nations mission. Canada has earmarked these new funds to enhance our assistance in the areas of helicopter and fixed-wing support and aviation fuel, including the provision of an additional fixed-wing aircraft.
We are also considering options that include renewing our contribution to the construction of civilian police base camps throughout the region.
Can we do more? Should we do more? We should make every effort to do that and to expand our support as we can.
Canada has been at the forefront of the action in Darfur, whether it is development or military aid commitments. I am proud of our Prime Minister's call for action at the Francophonie and I call on the Sudanese government to act responsibly and work with the international community to help bring peace to this troubled region.
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Mr. Chair, I want to set the record straight on the government's comments about contributions. It was our government that last year authorized and put in the 100 APCs. I was the parliamentary secretary at that time. With our current leader as the former minister of defence, we pushed for and got the 100 APCs into Darfur.
Also, we are the ones who authorized the training. We are the ones who got the helicopters. We are the ones who got the fixed-wings. That is what we did when we were in government.
So far this government has been impotent. All the Prime Minister has done is offer a bunch of words that are not able to save any lives whatsoever.
The member spoke correctly about the African Union, but what he failed to note is that the African Union wants the UN force to go in now. Those troops are pleading and begging for that UN force because, despite their hard work, they are trying to patrol an area the size of France and they do not have the troops, the equipment or the mandate. They see in front of their eyes the very atrocities that members from across the House have been talking about all night long.
The member who spoke is a military man. I want to ask him a direct question. Will he accept this notion? If the African Union wants the UN peacemaking force, which has a chapter 7 mandate authorized by the Security Council, will he stand up in the House and agree with what the African Union wants, which is to have that peacemaking force go in now regardless of what Khartoum wants? Even the United States government and, indeed, international law respect the fact that a Security Council resolution such as resolution 1706 authorizes UN troops to go in even when the leadership of that country says no.
The government in Khartoum has said very clearly that it will not allow UN troops to go in. Why? Because it wants the genocide to continue.
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Chair, I believe my hon. colleague is incorrect about what resolution 1706 says, but let me talk about the military question he asked me because it was quite direct.
Do I support military intervention as a general principle in areas where it is necessary? Yes, I do. Can Canada play a role in that realistically today? No, we cannot. It is going to take at least six months even if we had the troops to go in there.
The number of 1,200 has been mentioned and has been exaggerated to 1,500 Canadian Forces troops available to do this. I would point out that if this number is true, and I do not know the veracity of that number, that would be a one time number for a short term deployment.
If we are going to do any good in places like Sudan, as we are doing in places like Afghanistan, then we are talking about a deployment that lasts much longer than six months. If we are going to have people in any operation like that, we need three soldiers for every one that is on the ground, wherever we go. That is what we are doing in Afghanistan right now. We are stretching our forces terribly thin, because right now they are supposed to be six months in a theatre like that and then two and a half years out of a theatre like that. Right now, they are in theatre six months out of every eighteen.
If we tried to do that with another mission in Sudan with anything more than a couple of hundred troops, we would be grossly violating the pact that we have with our military to look after them, to have them do the good work they are doing in Afghanistan and to continue that work. I believe the Afghan women and children have every bit as much right to live as the women and children of Sudan.
That is not trivializing the situation in Sudan at all. It is providing some realism in the situation. Canada is doing an awful lot in Sudan now. Can we do more in some areas? Probably yes. In the areas my hon. friend is questioning, probably no.
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I want to verify this. I have heard it from the government side more than once. The African Union is threadbare. It needs help. Are we going to provide it, yes or no, and when?
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Chair, we are doing more. We are continuing to commit to doing everything we can do. We are increasing the foreign aid side of it. We are increasing the aid so the African Union will not be as threadbare as it is.
I cannot speak for what is going to happen tomorrow with regard to that, but I can say that the government is committed to doing everything it possibly can to be part of a lasting solution in Sudan, whether that is through diplomatic pressure, foreign aid or working with our United Nations partners. We are going to do everything we can within the resources that we have available, recognizing that we have other important commitments elsewhere in the world, to make the situation better--
The Deputy Chair Conservative Royal Galipeau
Resuming debate, the hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga.
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Chair, my colleagues have raised some excellent points about the work that Canada is involved in and the steps we are taking to ensure safety for the residents of Darfur.
Speaking personally, I too am proud of Canada's work. In my lifetime I have had the opportunity to personally serve on a number of overseas short term mission projects addressing human need in developing countries. I am reminded on almost a daily basis that Canadians everywhere are a generous people. Most Canadians, if they are asked, would adhere to an ancient proverb which reminds us that sometimes we can become rich by being generous or on the contrary, we can become poor by being greedy. Generosity will be rewarded. Or consider the biblical proverb which clearly says that the Lord blesses everyone who freely gives food to the needy.
The African Union mission in Sudan has achieved a great deal under exceptionally challenging circumstances. International partners have been, and continue to be, generous in their support of the African Union peacekeeping mission on the ground in Darfur. While Canada is a significant supporter of the African Union mission, it is now clear that the international community needs to ensure that we do more with urgent UN involvement.
Canada is employing all diplomatic efforts to urge the government of Sudan to accept the transition to a UN mission in Darfur. As we have heard from my esteemed colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Canada was present at the United Nations last week and my colleague took the opportunity to raise our concerns with Sudan's foreign minister and foreign ministers from key African nations regarding the need to move forward with the transition to a UN led force in Sudan's troubled region of Darfur.
Canada is proud of our partnership with the African Union. We are helping to build the African Union's capacity to develop effective mechanisms to deal with threats to peace and security in Africa. While Canada is pleased to recognize the considerable efforts of the African Union, we have also welcomed the African Union's decision to request a transition to a UN mission.
The United Nations is already present in Sudan in a peacekeeping role in the south supporting the ongoing implementation of the comprehensive peace agreement that ended the civil war. Canada is working closely with its international partners to promote a transition to a UN mission while ensuring that the African Union emerges stronger from its Darfur experience and is able to translate the lessons learned from this operation to the future of African Union peace and security engagement in Africa.
As people continue to live their lives in constant fear, or worse yet, lose their lives, it is difficult to see who is representing the interests of the people in Darfur. These people have suffered for far too long and they are losing hope. By transitioning the African Union mission in Sudan to the United Nations, the international community will consolidate our efforts in Sudan in one operation.
There are significant efficiencies to be gained by transitioning the force in Darfur allowing a UN presence throughout Sudan. Drawing upon a broader pool of material and human resources, the UN brings stable funding and decades of experience. With the UN already on the ground in the south of Sudan and coordinating humanitarian efforts in Darfur, transition in Darfur will provide benefits of economies of scale, a unified command and control structure.
We remain hopeful that agreement on the way forward will be forthcoming in the very near future. The new government's commitment to promoting freedom, democracy, the rule of law and respect for human rights remains strong, as does our commitment to doing so through multilateral institutions.
In closing, Canada looks forward to continuing to work with the African Union, the United Nations, the government of Sudan and the international community to ensure an end to the suffering of the people of Darfur. Canada will work to ensure blessings for others because we have been richly blessed. Our responsibility as a blessed nation working to achieve a lasting peace throughout Sudan will continue to be a major foreign policy priority for Canada.
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Mr. Chair, blessings are always welcome but they are not going to save lives in the real world.
I wonder if the hon. member would consider supporting that his government call a meeting of like-minded nations that are willing to roll up their sleeves and put on the table the assets they are willing to contribute to a UN peacemaking force to go into Darfur. Is he willing to stand in the House and say that he is going to request that his government authorize such a meeting?
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Chair, it would be premature on my part to commit to something that is not in place yet. Obviously, there is a plan in place to move from the African Union mission to the UN mission. When that happens, the member can be sure that everyone on this side of the House will put their shoulders together to work toward a credible solution.
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I want to establish something with the government. A couple of days ago Mr. Harper said:
We want to help reform the justice system, rebuild a security system, reduce the traffic in arms and reinforce the institutions of government and community life. The government of Sudan will have to hand over the responsibility for the African Union mission in Sudan to the United Nations at the start of the new year, under African command.
Now we have that established. I am trying to--
The Deputy Chair Conservative Royal Galipeau
Order, please. If I could have the attention of the hon. member for Ottawa Centre, I will admonish him lightly for mentioning the name of another member rather than the title of that other member. The hon. member for Kitchener--Conestoga.
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Chair, I was not able to hear the last part of the member's question.
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I wanted to establish the government's position. The Prime Minister has been quoted as saying that in the new year there should be a handover of the African Union mission to the United Nations and it needs to be under African control. Does the member agree, yes or no?
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Chair, every speech that was given in the House tonight by members on this side affirmed that fact. My answer is yes.
Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency
Mr. Chair, I want to commend all of my colleagues who have taken part in this debate tonight. It is exactly the type of constructive and informed discussion that should take place on such an important issue. Although there were times when the discussion was sprinkled with some sanctimony about how there might be simple solutions, I think we can all agree that our country is fully engaged.
Our government, as previous governments, has come forward with the best of intent. Canadians themselves have demonstrated extraordinary generosity, as my colleague has alluded to, and will continue to do so. The human effort that is being put forth by numerous countries, from the diplomatic efforts of children in schools raising money in this country to international organizations where Canadians have always been prominent, shows extraordinary generosity.
We are going to continue to soldier on, figuratively and literally, in our effort to end the suffering. I know that all members, certainly members on this side of the House, will continue in that diligent regard.
I want to commend my colleagues, the parliamentary secretaries who are here, and those who have participated fully in the debate tonight.
My genuine hope, and the hope that has been expressed by others, is that these will not just be words, but this will be a rallying cry, that there will be further action that will bring about the type of transition and the type of shouldering of the load that is going to be required to address this most serious of humanitarian crises.
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Parkdale—High Park.
There are 450,000 people who have been killed, 3.4 million people who have been affected by the conflict, 2 million are internally displaced, and 250,000 have fled to Chad. In the past two months alone, 50,000 have been displaced and more than 200 women and girls raped. These are stark statistics that describe the terrible human suffering in Darfur.
The situation in Sudan and Darfur weighs heavily on many people in Canada. This matter was first drawn to my attention as a newly elected MP in 2004 by the Canadian Jewish Congress, Pacific region. Its work with members of the Darfurian community in the greater Vancouver area has been very important and stems from its commitment that genocide must never again be part of humanity's common history.
Shortly afterward, I became acquainted with the work of Canadian Students for Darfur organized by students at Simon Fraser University in my riding, and at other secondary schools, colleges and universities. Clement Apaak, the past president of Simon Fraser Student Society, has been a key figure in Canadian Students for Darfur.
It has been an honour to participate in a number of activities of this group, including a march this summer in Vancouver. I want to pay tribute to Apaak and his colleagues for their dedication to the cause of the people of Darfur, and their tireless and regular efforts to bring the situation there to the attention of Canadians.
Canadian Students for Darfur and Students Taking Action Now: Darfur, STAND, have urged their supporters to write to MPs. I would like to quote from their letter. It states:
As our government assumed power, the Prime Minister said: “Canada can no longer lead from the bleachers”. As Darfur's death toll mounts, women are raped and the Sudanese government bombs its own civilians, it is time to rise from the bleachers.As a respected middle power and architect of Responsibility to Protect, Canada must lead the international community to stop the carnage in Darfur.Last Thursday in Bucharest our Prime Minister spoke directly to the situation in Darfur: “We must act to save a desperate population, it's the responsibility to protect”. This coming debate will measure our will to live up to that sentence. We urge you to support Canadian leadership for the UN mission outlined in Resolution 1706. Canadian participation in this mission cannot be undervalued. We cannot fail the 21st century's first test of our moral fibre. Act now.
I agree that we must act.
Recently, like many MPs, I also received a letter from John Siebert, Executive Director of Project Ploughshares. We know that Project Ploughshares is an ecumenical peace centre of the Canadian Council of Churches based at the University of Waterloo. Mr. Siebert also quotes from the Prime Minister's speech in Bucharest. The Prime Minister stated that “--the world body has to take over the responsibility to bring peace to the area, over the objections of the Sudanese government”.
However, Mr. Siebert also questions how Canada's role will be strengthened. He points out that the Prime Minister suggested Canada's role would include reform of the justice system, rebuilding a security system, reducing the traffic in arms, and reinforcing the institutions of government and community life.
Mr. Siebert points out that these are all, in his words, “praiseworthy” goals, but also notes that they are all “post conflict responses” and none support an effective UN intervention to stop the atrocities in Darfur. Mr. Siebert concludes that Canada must commit to Security Council resolution 1706 and support the Darfur peace agreement to prevent attacks and threats against civilians.
Canada has the military capacity to participate in stopping the attacks and threats against civilians. An access to information request has proven that and even the government acknowledges it. We have a $13 billion surplus, so we most certainly have the fiscal capacity to contribute even more than we already have.
Our support to African Union troops, who have not been paid and who may even be suffering from hunger themselves, must be increased in order to see the increased deployment of 1,300 additional African Union troops in the Darfur region. We must commit more humanitarian aid, especially when we hear that 355,000 people in North Darfur have gone without food aid for two months.
The government of Sudan must know that Canada is willing to participate in a UN force in Darfur and we must also continue to take advantage of every diplomatic opportunity to resolve this crisis.
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Chair, we have heard a lot of talk tonight about the responsibility to protect and along with that of course must go the capacity to protect. There is one potential partner that we have not talked about all night. I would be interested to learn from the hon. member what role he would view the United States playing in a UN mission to Sudan, either militarily, diplomatically or in any other way?
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Chair, my concern is Canada's role tonight. That is what I think we are discussing here this evening.
I believe that Canada has both the fiscal capacity and the military capacity to participate in this mission. We have seen from the access to information requests that Canada does have, and the minister's own advice was that we do have, the military capacity to send 1,500 troops to a role in Sudan. I believe we must make that commitment very, very clear.
Also, a $13 billion surplus was announced by the government last week, which means that even though we have made a significant financial contribution to the effort in Darfur already, we have the fiscal capacity to do more than that. We know that it is absolutely necessary. We have seen the hardship facing African Union troops in Darfur now. We know that they need our assistance. They have not been paid. That has to affect their ability to do the tough work they are called to do. We hear that they are not getting the food they need. That also directly affects their ability to do that important work.
We need to increase both as Canada's response to this, let alone other countries, but Canada's response. Maybe by making those kinds of commitments we can convince other countries to come along on that important effort and also get behind the African Union and the United Nations on this.
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Mr. Chair, when I listen to the hon. member of Parliament and also listen to my constituents, they all say that we as Canadians have to do more in Darfur. Then I hear from the government side that we have done enough and we do not have any more capacity to do it.
Could the hon. member tell me if the present government is living in dreams not to help in Darfur?
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Chair, I do not think that the present government is living in dreams; I would not say that. I might not agree with the position the Conservatives take, but they have their reasons. They have been defending those reasons tonight and I appreciate the fact that they have done that.
We can do more as a country. Canadians want us to do more; it has certainly been my experience. When I marched with the Canadian Students for Darfur across the Burrard Bridge to Sunset Beach Park in Vancouver, we were not a very large group, but what impressed all of us was the response of the people driving by in their cars that day across the Burrard Bridge. We heard a number of tooting horns and expressions of support yelled out the car windows for what we were advocating that day. We were advocating a strong Canadian response to the situation in Darfur. It was very heartening and told us all that there was broad public support out there. That has been building. We have seen events in cities all across the country regularly. Certainly in Vancouver, Canadian Students for Darfur and other organizations have events regularly. They have rallies, protests, marches and fundraisers regularly, month by month, week by week, to support a stronger Canadian effort in Darfur.
Canadians want us to do that. The government should be encouraged to listen to what Canadians are saying about Darfur and what they are saying about what Canada's role should be there. They want us to take a larger role in all of this, a larger diplomatic role and a larger role in encouraging other countries to be involved in the situation in Darfur and in Sudan.
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mr. Chair, it is a pleasure to participate in this important debate on the terrible tragedy in Darfur.
As others have referenced, we saw thousands of people around the world on September 17, including a large contingent from my city in Toronto, assembled to assert their responsibility to protect the innocent victims of international conflicts. This means that Canada needs to do much more in Darfur.
It is hard to imagine that a crisis, which we have heard so much about, could get worse than it already is. As we have heard tonight, in the last two months alone, another 50,000 people have been displaced. This is in addition to the many thousands of girls and women who have been raped, the over 450,000 who have been killed and the more than two million who have been displaced. These statistics are numbing. We feel we are in a kind of a sleepwalking state because we have heard these before in other countries, in other situations. Words of outrage are not enough for us to express in the House and for others to express around the world.
The African Union has agreed to extend its mission of 7,000 troops and it needs more funding. As Canada, as are others around the world, is now in the shadow of the genocide that took place in Rwanda, surely the wealthier nations of the world have to be asking themselves if they can do more. Clearly the answer is a resounding, yes, we not only can but we must do more to stop this terrible tragedy.
Canada needs to convince the Sudanese government that UN forces are necessary at the end of the African Union's mission. Canada must commit to participating in the UN mission in Darfur. Canada has the military and the fiscal capacity to do so. We know that. Canada must lead through example. Committing now to participating in a UN force will also encourage other nations to commit early to a UN force and send a strong signal to Sudan that the world is serious this time about ending the slaughter and protecting the vulnerable in Darfur.
Only one in three rebel groups has signed the Darfur peace agreement. We also need to negotiate to ensure that the groups that have not signed the peace accord do so.
Canada cannot make excuses. We need to do absolutely everything possible to ensure a swift result to a conflict that has already gone on far too long.
Deepak Obhrai ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs
Mr. Chair, I will echo the words of my colleague, the foreign affairs minister, that tonight's debate is a very serious one.
A Liberal member said that this government had not done anything and that it would not do anything further. That is absolutely wrong. The foreign affairs minister has outlined, quite clearly, his and our determination to carry on to ensure that the terrible human disaster in Darfur is solved. We are working through multilateral organizations, including the United Nations.
Everybody keeps talking about resolution 1706, but they are the ones who conveniently forget that this resolution calls for working with the government of Sudan. In the long run, there is a better chance of peace, if we work with that government.
I take this opportunity to thank my colleague from the NDP and all members for their excellent suggestions as to what should be done. We can assure the House, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs outlined, that we will continue to be engaged in this file.
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mr. Chair, I do not know that there was really a question. I heard an intent on the part of the parliamentary secretary to take the debate seriously. Hopefully, that means there is action coming from this debate, that Canada will live up to its moral obligation in the world to not only express outrage about the crisis in Darfur, but to act. That action needs to be on a diplomatic level and on a security level. As well, that action needs to assist the people who have been so devastated by this genocide in slow motion, as others this evening have so eloquently described it.
Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON
Mr. Chair, does the hon. member feel that the genocide in Darfur meets the criteria of the Responsibility to Protect, a document for which we were an architect? Does she also agree that we did not wait for an invitation to intervene in the Holocaust or Kosovo?