Debates of Nov. 1st, 2006

Human Resources and Skills Development—Main Estimates 2006-07

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think we are working at cross-purposes here. This evening we are here discussing the estimates for this year's spending, not next year's. Next year's program spending has not yet been determined. The hon. member has received numerous assurances that we are going to continue with supporting the homeless. We just have not decided how yet.

We are trying to improve upon this program if it is possible, but we are funding numerous programs right across the country, good programs such as the Native Men's Residence shelter facility in Toronto and the Helping Spirit Lodge Society in Vancouver.

The announcements I made recently were just four examples of many, many good programs that are going on across the country, programs that I would like to see continued. I want to make sure that we are supporting those programs in the best way possible. When we prepare the numbers for next year, those numbers will be included.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, the minister is missing the point. The agencies are closing down now. They cannot wait. They have to be able to plan for the future. This is not something that can be put together at the last minute.

These are agencies that have people's lives in their hands. They need to know when the money is coming. They need to know about the future beyond March 2007. This is not a game of semantics. This is about what will happen when SCPI is ended in March 2007.

These are agencies that need to know now. I want the minister to tell us now what is going to happen.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said, the funding is there this year. We have increased the funding by $37 million. The member asked where she could see that. It is on page 96 of the RPP. She can feel free to look it up there.

We are under an obligation in the House to tell the truth. If I were to tell the hon. member about some program for next year that has not yet been decided on, that would not be the responsible thing to do in the House, nor would it be a responsible thing to inform Canadians of. We are evaluating the program while we are delivering it and we are looking for even better programming, if that is possible.

I expect that the hon. member, given the number of times she and her party criticized previous Liberal programs, would like to see us try to improve help to homeless people because they need it and deserve it.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, I can see I am not getting anywhere with this line of questioning. The minister does not seem to understand that these so-called better programs will not exist if all of the agencies close their doors in December of this year. At any rate, I will continue.

The minister has also claimed that she met with homelessness advocates and groups. I would like the minister to tell me which groups she has consulted. I also held a round table just last week and no one at the round table mentioned meeting with the minister. These were groups that work on the ground every day to help the homeless and people at risk. Who were they and when did she consult with them?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, we meet with a lot of people. I meet with a lot of people and so do my officials. I do not divulge the details of my personal meetings because many of the people with whom I meet regard them as private meetings and I respect their privacy. I think that is only fair and reasonable.

I can tell the member that we did have a round table in September here in Ottawa with officials and my office.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, I did not ask the minister to divulge anything personal and private. I just asked who these groups were that she met with. I simply want to know if she is talking to the same people that I am talking to because I am getting an entirely different message than what is being indicated here.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, even identifying people with whom I have spoken could be considered an intrusion into their privacy. Quite frankly, I respect their privacy and intend to continue doing so, but that does not mean that I cannot listen, because I do. We have had a round table meeting. I have met regularly with a lot of people because this issue is important.

Some people think that homelessness only affects the big cities in our country and that is not true. It is not true. That is why we have programs even in rural areas for the homeless. I would like to think that the hon. member is as concerned about rural homelessness as she is about homelessness in the urban centres. Even in my area there is an issue with the homeless and we are trying to address that as well.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am still looking for answers.

I have two additional questions on housing that came out of the parliamentary secretary's comments last night. The parliamentary secretary stated that the Conservative government is now reviewing policies, approaches, partnerships and delivery models and that Conservatives are taking action. I understand that reviewing programs is important and that the Conservative government is trying to desperately differentiate itself from the former Liberal government.

The SCPI program won an award at the United Nations for best practices. This is an international award winning program. How many more months does it need to be reviewed? Is the Conservative government stalling and what does it hope to achieve by prolonging this review?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, we could have said right at the beginning that we do not know the program, that we cannot trust it and that we should cancel it but we chose not to do that because helping the homeless is important to us as a new government. In the very early days we said that we would extend this program simply because it was there and it was the best we had to work with.

However, that does not mean that it is the best it can be. It means that we have an obligation to the homeless and to Canadians to see if there are more effective ways. Are there ways that we can be getting at the root causes of homelessness? Rather than treating homelessness itself, what about eliminating the root causes? Would that not be a good option?

I would hope the hon. member would support that notion because those are some of the options we are considering. We have the time to do this. We are sensitive to the time lines and the dependency of various groups. We have five months before the program runs out. We kept it going last year and we have every intention of continuing to support the homeless this year.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, I could not agree more. Let us get to the root of the problem.

I would suggest that one of the most salient solutions is a national affordable housing program for this country, very much like the one that we had beginning in the early seventies when a minority NDP government pushed the Liberals to bring in a national housing program.

When can we expect that permanent solution? When can we expect to get at root causes of homelessness by installing a national affordable housing program in this country?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

In fact, Mr. Chair, we have several programs for affordable housing. CMHC provides $2 billion a year in support of some 633 low income households in terms of social housing. We also announced $1.4 billion this year in the 2006 budget to go toward social housing and three different trusts for the provinces and territories for northern housing and for aboriginals off reserve. We are doing a lot to help Canadians secure their homes.

CMHC also has other programs, such as the 5% minimum requirement for a down payment, so that Canadians can access home ownership on their own. We also provide significant rental housing. I was recently--

[The Chair, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

The hon. member for London—Fanshawe.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, I heard the list but this is piecemeal. I want to know when we will have a national affordable housing program that is cohesive and that actually prevents and helps those who are homeless.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I just said, we already have a program. There are 633 low income families out there right now who are being helped directly just through the one program, plus there are the other programs that we are administering on and off reserve.

The new trust is a one time strategic investment that we are making to get over homelessness. It is an investment in our communities and in our citizens, providing safe, affordable housing for them.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, there are 200,000 homeless Canadians in this country and we need something more substantive than that.

I would like to ask the minister about a program in Toronto that I am very concerned about. It is called the PAID program, which stands for Partners for Access and Identification. It was funded under SCPI but those funds have evaporated. As a result, it will be scaling back and laying off workers as of December 1.

This project serves 1,200 people each year and it is crucial. It is an identification replacement program. As I am sure the minister is well aware, without ID, people cannot work and they cannot find a place to live.

By allowing such a program to shut down there will be more people on the streets of Toronto this winter, leaving the burden of housing to the police and the hospitals. This is much less cost effective than funding the program that helps people get off the street and participate in society.

By allowing--

[The Chair, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

I am sorry again to interrupt the hon. member for London—Fanshawe but if the minister is going to be able to respond she must respond now. The hon. Minister of Human Resources and Social Development.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, unfortunately, we have a great need for assistance with homelessness in this country.

As a result, we have almost 400 different funding partners with whom we work. Unfortunately, I am not aware of the details of all of these programs. I am not aware of the specific program to which the member is referring but if she would like to approach me outside of the chamber I would be happy to check into the details of it for her.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, I would first like to mention that I will be sharing my time with some of my colleagues, namely, the hon. members for Churchill, Richmond and Labrador.

Yesterday, during the most recent meeting of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities, the minister came to answer some questions. It was certainly very difficult to get any answers.

I will therefore start today by asking some relatively simple questions and I need only simple answers.

I would like the minister to tell me the following. Does she know the number of weeks it takes for workers who are eligible for employment insurance to receive their first cheque?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, we make every effort to get the cheques out to EI claimants as quickly as possible. We do have a 28 day standard and we try to stay within that at all times. Unfortunately, from time to time there are great peaks in demand, particularly seasonally, for example, in agricultural areas, and at that time we do take measures to deal with the situation so people get their benefits within the 28 days.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, given that the minister does not know, perhaps this explains why there were more departments and ministers in the past. It meant that ministers were more likely to know what was going on in their department.

For the minister's information, it takes eight weeks for an unemployed worker to receive the first EI cheque.

Since it takes eight weeks, I have another question for the minister. How would she feel about having absolutely no income to pay for her rent, her heating, her groceries and to be able to feed her children? Could the minister accept this in her day-to-day life?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, eight weeks is a very high number but it is an exception. Our performance rate shows that 80% of EI claimants receive their cheque within 28 days. We are putting in a lot of effort to get that higher than 80%. However, unfortunately that is the system we inherited from the previous government.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, if it is an exception, then I invite the minister to actually come to my riding of Madawaska—Restigouche, to come to New Brunswick, where the average waiting period is eight weeks. It is not 28 days, it is eight weeks.

People have to wait up to eight weeks to get their first cheque.

My question will be brief. Does it take so long because this minister and her department are waiting and are going to centralize services and people in specific regions, and leave the rural areas of our country and of our province without the necessary resources?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is exactly the contrary. We have improved our standard of delivery to 80% within 28 days since the departments were combined. Last year, when I was sitting on that side of the House and those people were over here, people in own riding were waiting 10 to 12 weeks when there were five departments handling this portfolio.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, I would just like to keep talking about employment insurance, because it is a very important issue.

Some members, namely those representing Kitchener—Conestoga or Fort McMurray—Athabasca, came up with an idea. They are asking the department to have a plan, a system to transfer people from a high unemployment area to other regions of the country.

Does the minister have the same vision for people in the Atlantic region? Does she want to take people from the Atlantic provinces, who are able to live at home, and make them work elsewhere in our country? Does she want to more or less deport people from the Atlantic region to other regions of the country, yes or no?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are trying to ensure that employers have access to the skilled workers they need and that workers have access to the jobs where their skills can be used. There are a number of ways to achieve that. One that I have mentioned several times this evening is through economic development. I have several colleagues who are working on economic development, particularly in vulnerable communities. We hope to implement our older workers initiative so that jobs can be created for them. However, we need to break down the barriers of people moving from one area to another and not having their credentials recognized within this country.