House of Commons Hansard #35 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

HomelessnessOral Questions

3 p.m.

Medicine Hat Alberta

Conservative

Monte Solberg ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Social Development

Mr. Speaker, I hate to break it to the member, but the NDP has never been in power so there was no budget from the NDP.

I need to tell the member that the New Democrats have no monopoly on concern when it comes to looking after the homeless. Last week I was meeting in Vancouver with groups who work on the streets to help people get a roof over their heads, give them the helping hand that they need so they can ultimately get out of the situation they are in.

We are concerned about this. We are pouring resources in. It is more than just rhetoric with this party. We are getting the job done.

AgricultureOral Questions

3 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, beef and hog producers across the country are facing financial devastation and the government fails to respond.

Farmers who responded to the government's call to modernize, to increase production, to increase exports, are the best of the best. Third, fourth and fifth generation farmers are not only losing their businesses, they are losing their homes and their heritage, yet they are left desolate by a government sitting on a huge surplus.

Will the minister not act immediately beyond regular safety nets and put immediate cash into the farm community?

AgricultureOral Questions

3 p.m.

Battlefords—Lloydminster Saskatchewan

Conservative

Gerry Ritz ConservativeMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and Minister for the Canadian Wheat Board

Mr. Speaker, nothing could be further from the truth. We are in constant contact working with the farm groups, with the livestock sector, with the pork sector, with the processors and with the provinces. They all know we are working hard on the file and we will have answers for them very shortly.

JusticeOral Questions

3 p.m.

Conservative

Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, the recent discovery of 3,000 marijuana plants in a commercial space above a day care reminds us of the burgeoning problem of grow ops in communities and their consequences for the health and safety of those living nearby, in this case very vulnerable infants and pre-school children.

Could my hon. colleague, the Minister of Justice, explain to the House how Bill C-26, which imposes mandatory prison terms for serious crimes related to drugs, will solve this problem?

JusticeOral Questions

3 p.m.

Niagara Falls Ontario

Conservative

Rob Nicholson ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I do not comment on specific cases.

Bill C-26 aims to ensure that drug producers and dealers who threaten public safety and public health will face tougher sentences. In particular, the bill says that if the production of a drug constitutes a potential security, health or safety hazard to children who are in the immediate area where the offence is committed, the penalty increases. We want to send out a very clear message to drug dealers and those who produce drugs that if they threaten public safety, and in particular, if they threaten our children, they will face serious jail time.

Alleged Abuse of Parliamentary Resources--Speaker's RulingPrivilegeOral Questions

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Order, please. I am now prepared to rule on the question of privilege raised on November 22, 2007 by the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River concerning the alleged misuse of the services of the Library of Parliament.

I understand that the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River and the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Superior North have resolved this issue to their mutual satisfaction. I thank both hon. members for their cooperation, and the Chair considers the matter closed.

Royal Recommendation--Bill C-474Points of OrderOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre Saskatchewan

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, on Friday, December 7, the Acting Speaker invited comments on whether Bill C-474 requires a royal recommendation.

Without commenting on the merits of the bill, I submit that the bill's provisions to establish a new and independent commissioner of the environment and sustainable development who would be a new agent of Parliament would require new government spending and therefore, would require a royal recommendation.

Clause 13 of Bill C-474 would require the governor in council to appoint a new commissioner of the environment and sustainable development. The clause sets out the powers, duties and term of office of the new commissioner. This would be an organizational change which would require increased spending. There are numerous precedents to this effect.

The requirement for a royal recommendation for a new agent of Parliament is made clear in the Speaker's ruling of November 9, 1978, and I quote, “...if this bill is to impose a new duty on the officers of the Crown...these objectives...will necessitate expenditures of a nature which would require the financial initiative of the Crown”.

The requirement for a royal recommendation for organizational changes, such as establishing a new department or a commissioner, is referred to in the Speaker's ruling of July 11, 1988, and again I quote:

...to establish a separate Department of Government and a commissioner of Multiculturalism...undoubtedly would cause a significant charge upon the Federal Treasury in order for the new Department to function on a daily basis.

The Speaker's ruling of September 19, 2006 on Bill C-293 concluded that the creation of an advisory committee requires a royal recommendation since this clearly would require the expenditure of public funds in a manner and for a purpose not currently authorized. I quote from that ruling:

--the establishment of the advisory committee for international development cooperation provided for in clause 6 clearly would require the expenditure of public funds...

I believe this principle should apply to Bill C-474 since the creation of an independent commissioner of the environment and sustainable development would clearly require new spending to remunerate the commissioner and to provide administrative support to the commissioner. Although the bill does not specify these requirements, the Speaker has ruled that a royal recommendation would, nevertheless, be needed.

The Speaker's ruling of February 8, 2005 states:

Where it is clear that the legislative objective of a bill cannot be accomplished without the dedication of public funds to that objective, the bill must be seen as the equivalent of a bill effecting an appropriation.

I would suggest this was the reason that a royal recommendation was required for the 1995 amendments to the Auditor General Act that established the office of the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development within the Auditor General's office.

The office of the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development has over 40 staff and reported spending $2.8 million in 2006-07 for sustainable development monitoring activities and environmental petitions. It must follow that the establishment of an independent commissioner of the environment and sustainable development would require an office of professionals to support the commissioner in carrying out his or her duties, as set out in clause 13.

Since Bill C-474 would represent a change to the conditions and qualifications that were attached to the original legislation that established the office of the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development, a new royal recommendation would be required for Bill C-474.

Page 183 of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms reads:

--an amendment infringes the financial initiative of the Crown not only if it increases the amount but also if it extends the objects and purposes, or relaxes the conditions and qualifications expressed in the communication by which the Crown has demanded or recommended a charge.

It is clear that by removing the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development from within the office of the auditor general and making the commissioner report directly to Parliament, Bill C-474 is proposing a change to the conditions and qualifications that were attached to the original legislation. Therefore, I submit that Bill C-474 requires a royal recommendation.

Royal Recommendation--Bill C-474Points of OrderOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

Mr. Speaker, I suspect the sponsor of this bill will want the opportunity to comment on the point that has just been raised by the deputy House leader for the government. I wonder if you would reserve an opportunity for him to speak to this matter as soon as possible.

Royal Recommendation--Bill C-474Points of OrderOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

That is exactly what I was going to say. I want to thank the hon. parliamentary secretary for his very ably prepared submission on this matter. I know he is always prudent and careful in organizing his arguments, and obviously has spent some considerable time in his preparations for this one today. I thank him for his efforts. Of course, we will look forward to hearing further on this in due course before the Chair makes a ruling.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:10 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying before I was interrupted by question period, this agenda item, this mini-budget, this statement by the government takes Canada in the wrong direction.

It is not a balanced approach to the way that we should be doing business in this place on behalf of Canadians and communities across this country. We had in front of us what we believe in the NDP caucus an unprecedented opportunity to invest in people and their communities.

The government has failed to do that. In failing to do that, the real disappointment is that the only caucus in this place to stand up and say so and vote consistently against that agenda item has been the New Democratic caucus. We have had the support of the Bloc from time to time.

Certainly, it has been telling that the Liberal caucus has not found it within its wish to actually stand up and vote against this budget. The Liberals have sat on their hands on at least three occasions that I can remember when they had an opportunity to say to the government that it was going in the wrong direction, that this is not the right agenda, that this is an unbalanced approach, and that it will hurt communities and people.

This budget will hurt working families across this country. This may sound strange coming from a New Democrat, but this was an opportunity for targeted tax relief for those who needed it most. The government has failed to do that.

The government failed to recognize even in the industrial realm which sectors of our industry needed help the most. The budget gives relief to big banks, to the oil industry and to insurance companies. The budget did nothing and it will do nothing as it rolls out for the manufacturing sector. Communities such as Hamilton, St. Catharines, Winnipeg and Sault Ste. Marie and others, that are being damaged by the downsizing in the manufacturing sector, will continue to feel that pain.

There will be no help coming from the federal government because there is nothing in this mini-budget. There was nothing in the previous budget and nothing in the Conservative's agenda to give communities any hope that the government will come to the table and be a partner, and participate in some kind of a restructuring and realigning of their fortunes.

It is for these reasons and the many others that my colleagues have laid out in front of this place and will continue to lay out over the next number of days, that we in the New Democratic Party caucus will be voting against this mini-budget.

Travelling the country over the last couple of years, I have met with community groups and leaders, and people struggling to make ends meet. I have met with the poor, with advocates on behalf of the poor, and with the poverty communities across Canada.

There is a reality out there that conditions are getting worse by the day. This is supported by all kinds of analysis and studies done by the National Council on Welfare, the Canadian Council on Social Development, NAPO and KAIROS. These are all well meaning groups. They are hard-working and committed groups in this country that have been working for years to try to deal with poverty, this unnecessary reality, in this wealthy country.

These groups say to us that corporations do not need tax cuts and tax breaks. What we need to be doing is investing in those institutions that will support Canadians and that will help Canadians and their children to make ends meet. Canadians need help looking after their health needs, getting their children into education, so that they can do better for themselves.

Canadians need affordable, clean and safe housing. Canadians need to be provided with the drugs that they need when they are sick. They also need the child care that is so necessary, both for the children's growth and development, as well as for those families where the parents want to get out and participate in the workforce without it costing them an arm and a leg. The government is not going there and it is not doing all these things.

The other really disturbing, unfolding reality that I discovered over the last couple of years, and perhaps it is because of the way our economy is evolving in Canada, is the low wage jobs that are being created, as opposed to the well paid jobs that were previously in the manufacturing sector.

We have more and more people working harder, working longer hours, and working full time all year living in poverty. We have a large group of people who actually have decent jobs who are feeling very insecure in those jobs. They do not know from one week to the next whether they will have their job next month or the month after.

They are a paycheque or two away from actually experiencing some pretty difficult circumstances themselves. Where a month, or six months, or years ago they could work hard, make investments, get an education, look ahead to bettering themselves and creating a better situation for their children, they are now beginning to look over their shoulder. They are not looking ahead any more. They are wondering what if they lose their job, what if a paycheque does not come in, what happens to them, and what is there for them?

The most obvious example of the damage that has been done, not necessarily by the current government but by the previous Liberal government was when it changed the rules that governed how we delivered the employment insurance program. In fact, many will not qualify and will end up in some pretty meagre, desperate welfare situation.

The social safety net that all of us over a number of years wove, because it was the Canadian thing to do for each other, for our neighbours, for our family members, for our friends, and for all of those people who call Canada home, has now disappeared.

As these people look over their shoulder they are beginning to see, as we have seen and have been trying to point out to this place and I have been trying to point out in my travels and through my focus on eradicating poverty and reducing poverty, that the social safety net is not there any more.

We have had an opportunity for the last 10 years at least in this country to make serious investments in those areas such as child care, housing, post-secondary education, and the health care system which is falling apart as we speak. We had an opportunity in all of those things that go to making sure that absolutely everyone has those fundamental necessary supports we have to have if we are going to be healthy, if we are going to look after our children, and if we are going to participate in the economy. Unfortunately, they are not there any more.

If we believe the economists who have done the analysis of this mini-budget and the budget of the government, we are going to be relieving the government of a capacity that is anywhere from $6 billion to $12 billion a year. After this budget goes through, this money will no longer available to government to invest.

If we pile that on top of the corporate tax breaks the Liberals gave to their friends and benefactors over the 13 years they were in power, that is a substantial amount of money. That could have done a lot of good. That could have created the kind of Canada that we can only imagine, that the world in many places thinks that we are, but in fact the reality is different.

We still have time. We have a couple of days here. We are hoping that the Conservatives will listen. We know that the Liberals have given up. They have virtually, if not physically, mentally gone home for the holidays. But we are here and we are going to be here, and we are going to get up on our feet, every last one of us. We are going to speak to this bill and we are going to put on the table those very real concerns.

We are going to speak about those concerns based on our experiences, out of the work we are doing, out of the travel across the province, out of going back to our community every weekend and talking to those men and women, talking to those families, talking to those institutions, and talking to community leaders who are telling us a very different story than the Conservatives are wanting to roll out in front of us as they have when they presented this budget.

They are no longer getting up in the House either because they want to get home for the Christmas holidays as well. They do not want to do the--

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Order. I regret to interrupt the hon. member, but his time has expired.

Questions or comments, the hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his work on poverty issues over many years in the province of Ontario and across Canada.

He will agree with me that there has been report after report on poverty in Canada. All those reports call us to action, but they also stress the importance of a national housing program to eradicate poverty.

There have been many reports in the last few months about the need for affordable housing, for social housing, for programs to deal with homelessness, such as the preliminary report from the UN special rapporteur Miloon Kothari and the report put together by northern agencies on homelessness and women in northern Canada. Report after report have stressed the need for affordable housing and still we do not have a national housing program in Canada.

We used to have a housing agency that did excellent work. It was very creative and was known around the world. Canada Mortgage and Housing was known for its housing development work. Sadly, it has been gutted by Liberal and Conservative governments over the past decades. It does not do that kind of work any more. We need to get back to that again.

In question period today, the member for Sault Ste. Marie asked questions of the Minister of Human Resources and Social Development on the need for a national housing program. The minister said that the government was doing something. It is doing something with the money the NDP fought for in the last Parliament and in the last Liberal budget.

Could he talk a bit more about the importance of a national housing program to Canadians and as an anti-poverty measure in Canada?

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. Speaker, my colleague does an excellent job as the NDP critic for housing. He knows this file inside and out.

He is right. I have travelled the country over the last couple of years. I have met with community groups, people who advocate on behalf of people who live in poverty and people themselves who live in poverty. They have said that we need a national housing program. With the money we are siphoning off and turning over to the corporate sector, we could begin a national housing strategy right now. We need it because everybody needs an affordable, safe place to call home.

Homelessness has become a national disgrace and disaster. Agencies that have been working for a number of years to come to terms with this reality in their neighbourhoods are running out of money. People committed to this kind of work are always digging deeper, but they are running out of energy. They need the government to partner with them and to provide them with support and resources.

I phoned the Toronto Disaster Relief Committee yesterday to get some statistics for my question for the minister and it has closed down. It is no longer in business. That agency, the most important agency in the country, was the voice for those who had no voice. It shut down because it had no resources.

We obviously need money for housing. We need a national housing strategy and a national homelessness strategy as well.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Mr. Speaker, I also congratulate my colleague from Sault Ste. Marie for his advocacy work on social issues in our country. He is a role model for many of us in my caucus and should be a role model for many other members of Parliament.

Canada is living off the social investment made in the seventies and the early eighties. Much of that social infrastructure is crumbling and is in great need of investment. There is a social structure deficit, and I find that very distressing.

I have noticed in certain sectors in my own community, and certainly in the downtown east side of Vancouver, that emergency services personnel are being left to deal with the people in most need in our society, the very poor and the mentally ill. It is a shame that the Conservative government and our country have left the care of the most vulnerable to emergency services personnel, whether they be paramedics or police officers. Would the member for Sault Ste. Marie comment on that? All of the issues he raised around housing, about investing in the homeless, relate to this.

What a shame for Canada to be left now with emergency services personnel being the last resort to deal with the people in our society, people who the government and many Canadians have forgotten.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member is absolutely right. A lot of the homeless end up in jails because communities have no other options it seems.

There are places in the country where people would not expect to see homelessness. The most prosperous and economically active of our communities, like Calgary and Victoria, now experience homelessness like no other city in the country.

Because Calgary does not get the money from the province and the federal government to deal with the issue, out of desperation it is passing laws to make it illegal to be homeless. People cannot sleep in the parks, or under bridges or hang out in the malls. What do they do?

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Where are they supposed to go?

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Exactly, and that is why they end up in the preserve of our emergency services.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Speaker, while I agree with my colleague on his criticism of the tax cuts contained in the current mini-budget, which we will vote on, I also want to raise this point. Between 1984 and 2006, with the current government and the two previous governments, Canada voluntarily gave up over $250 billion in revenue through tax cuts.

The incredible challenge, the disaster, the crisis of poverty that we face in the country did not happen overnight. It has been building for 20 years. Could the hon. member describe how the previous Liberal government laid the foundation for this disaster?

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. Speaker, people have studied and worked on this challenge for a number of years to figure out how a country so wealthy as ours could all of a sudden have such poverty, with people sleeping on our streets. If we talked to them, they will tell us it started in a very serious way when the previous Liberal government got rid of the Canada assistance plan.

That was the vehicle the federal government used to ensure there was enough money flowing to the provinces and the municipalities to deal with these issues. It was the vehicle that used to ensure there was accountability, that the money being transferred for programs was actually being spent on those programs.

When the Canada assistance plan was dropped, it was the tool box the federal government gave to the provinces—

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I know members of the NDP are trying to filibuster and are running out of things to say, but they have to stay on topic.

We are talking about Bill C-28, at third reading. Every comment made has to be about the substance of the bill. They cannot go on one tangent or another about what they do with money. They have to talk about the issues of Bill C-28. I would ask that you bring them to order.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

I thank the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake. There is one minute left to the hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie and I am sure he will get back to the point.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member has been getting up all day accusing the New Democrats of filibustering. We call it doing our work. We call it showing up. We come here with our lunch pail every day and we put in a full 12 hours.

The Liberals and the Conservatives are in a big hurry to get home for the Christmas holidays. We say we have work to be done. I speak in this place every day on behalf of people who have no voice here. Their perspective on this business may be different than the Conservatives. They may see the essence of the bill differently, so we speak to that.

As I was saying, the Canada assistance plan started there. Then the Liberals tried to convince the provinces that this was a good idea. What they were trying to do was reduce the amount of transfers by some $7 billion or $8 billion. The tool box they gave the provinces to reduce that transfer by the $7 billion or $8 billion was the Canada assistance plan.

If we put the reductions together with the elimination of the Canada assistance plan, we see the beginning of what we now experience in our communities across—

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

As much as I hate to interrupt the hon. member, the hon. member for Hamilton East--Stoney Creek now has the floor, in resuming debate.

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007Government Orders

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill C-28 one more time and I do so because of the significance of the implications for my riding of Hamilton East—Stoney Creek. Clearly Hamilton East—Stoney Creek and the entire community of Hamilton have a lot vested in the budget document, more because of what it does not do than what it does do.

Before I comment directly on Bill C-28, I will like to take a few moments in response to—