Debates of Dec. 6th, 2007

Opposition Motion--Federal Excise Tax on Gasoline

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. I miss him. He used to sit on the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. Perhaps he will join us there again soon. I know he has received a well-deserved promotion.

Clearly, when we break down the $33 billion over seven years—it is important to understand that this is over seven years—we see that the gas tax represents $11.5 billion; the GST, $5 billion; and the building Canada fund, $8.8 billion.The rest is made up of border infrastructure and other programs that do not affect cities directly. As for the building Canada fund, the $8.8 billion could be used, I admit. However, the projects that could be funded by this fund have to do with airports and lots of other things that do not necessarily come under cities.

Consequently, let us say that $25.3 billion might be used for cities. This amount is spread over seven years. If we divide this amount by seven, we get $3.5 billion a year in round figures. However, this year alone, cities would need $123 billion if they wanted to take care of everything in one year, which is impossible.

So when we break down the figures, we see that the $33 billion becomes $25.3 billion over seven years for cities, or $3.5 billion a year. This is far less than what cities are expecting or could expect to receive to address their infrastructure deficit.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would much rather have asked this question of the government.

However, during the election campaign of 2006 the Conservatives were on record as saying that they wanted to implement the full 5¢ of the gas tax toward infrastructure and to do so immediately. Now we see the figures in the update and the government says this will not be so until 2009-10, while the FCM report mentions a deficit of $123 billion. It strikes me that the government is prepared to fast track corporate taxes but not to fast track help for our cities. Does the member not find that ironic?

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his question. He is absolutely right.

The reaction of the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities on finding out that the deficit was $123 billion, was to say that it was not serious. Let us remember that. And yet, this is the first real, in-depth analysis the Federation of Canadian Municipalities has done. Every city was sent a questionnaire on their infrastructure needs. This is the first municipality by municipality analysis. The minister's first reaction was to say that it was not serious, when things have never been more serious.

The problem is that the government miscalculated things because it does not know the cities. Such is the cold hard reality. Perhaps also because this is not a federal jurisdiction. The federal government should have talked to the provinces in order to understand the situation before creating programs that it is now trying to defend in an effort to make political gains. The harsh reality is that a very large amount of money is needed, which the government did not foresee.

We have a problem right now. The government is being told to sit down and quickly create a program for negotiating a one time cash payment with each province so that each province can settle the infrastructure problems in each of its municipalities. The $123 billion figure suggests that we must address this today. We are beyond calculating the fuel tax, which represents $3.5 billion. As I mentioned earlier, this comes to $25.3 billion over seven years. This is completely disproportionate to the needs of the cities. When we talk about infrastructure, we are talking about public safety.

I have been saying this all along. History shows that the cities are having infrastructure problems today and are practically endangering the lives of their citizens because the federal government, in the 1990s, in trying to achieve a zero deficit, cut transfers to the provinces, which in turn had to cut transfers to the cities.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Burnaby—New Westminster.

I am very pleased to speak to this motion today. I believe that the issue of municipal infrastructure is a fundamentally important issue. When I speak with the members of the board of trade, the mayor of my city or business people around our town, they all agree that the number one concern is our crumbling infrastructure, in all places but certainly in the town that I come from, Toronto.

We have seen study after study and report after report detailing the enormous and growing infrastructure deficit in our country. The Conference Board, the board of trade, as I mentioned, the Canadian Council of Professional Engineers, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the big city mayors--in short, everyone in this country--agree that we have a massive infrastructure deficit. It is a hindrance to business. It is a danger to our environment. It is creating huge personal problems in terms of inconvenience, by lengthening travel times for people and through disruption and costs related to water pipes breaking because they are old and ought to be replaced. There are huge problems.

Everyone agrees that we need to address this problem, yet there seems to have been a paralysis in the previous government and now there are problems with the current government in addressing this issue. Therefore, I want to not only address the issue but discuss how we should address it.

I want to reinforce what the Federation of Canadian Municipalities is saying, which is that the deficit in infrastructure has now reached $123 billion. It categorizes “sub-deficits”, that is, certain parts of our infrastructure that are particularly deficient. Water and waste water systems have a $31 billion deficit. Transportation has a $21.7 billion deficit. Transit has a $22.8 billion deficit. Solid waste management has a $7.7 billion deficit. Community, recreational, cultural and social infrastructure has a $40.2 billion deficit.

We know that this deficit will only grow exponentially and that all governments and parties need to work together in order to come to grips with it and deal with the ongoing challenge to our quality of life.

However, the expectation that municipalities alone can deal with infrastructure deficits by increasing property taxes is clearly ludicrous. It is simply not sustainable, nor it is possible for them to do so.

Let us take a look at the gas tax, which is specifically referenced in this motion. The federal gas tax is 10¢ a litre. It generates over $4 billion a year. Even half that tax, $2 billion, would be a substantial investment in our municipalities. That is certainly what we have been proposing: that this tax, on a permanent basis, be made available to municipalities to deal with their infrastructure deficit.

The previous government made some promises about municipalities getting up to 5¢ a litre in future years, which would be $2 billion, but of course that was never fully realized. What was realized, of course, were the massive corporate tax cuts, the largest we had seen. They were certainly escalated. We have seen that continue with the current government in the previous budget, and then the mini-budget the government brought in certainly fast tracked corporate tax cuts.

I would submit that what needs to be fast tracked is the funding for infrastructure. We have seen our communities stagnating. I hear complaints constantly about the amount of taxes people pay and the deterioration of their cities. This is an urgent issue that ought to be addressed.

The building Canada fund that was announced last year is a flawed program. All it does is repackage already designated federal dollars into a scheme that is designed to profit certain interests from the infrastructure crisis in municipal services and ultimately lead to their privatization.

Municipalities need support to repair and replace their aging infrastructure and what they are facing in fact are threats that if they do not agree to public-private partnerships, they will not get the funding that they need.

Therefore, we see the rising funds put into the building Canada infrastructure program which includes a mandatory P3 review for any project of more than $50 million of federal funds. These reviews can be skewed to make the public sector look inefficient and in fact the head of Partnerships BC, responsible for privatization, said himself that:

--public sector comparators won’t do you much good because I can make the public sector comparator as bad as I want to in order to make the private sector look good.

I think that often these privatizations are a false economy. We certainly saw this with the upgrading of the London subway system and the failure of a public-private partnership there. There were cost overruns of over £2 billion, or over $4 billion.

While the proponents of privatization argue that P3s take away risk from government, clearly it is government and the public sector that is still on the hook for any cost overruns. The risk just reverts back to the public sector at a cost much higher than if they had just undertaken the work themselves.

I want to say a few words more about transit because we are talking about gas tax and I believe that transit infrastructure is fundamentally important for our communities. As I said earlier, it is important clearly for our environment and our businesses. It is important to the quality of life for people in large centres to be able to get to and from their homes, to work, and to other places where they have to travel to in a timely fashion.

If we look at what happens if we replace cars with a bus, a regular TTC vehicle, one bus during rush hour can replace 45 private vehicles, which is very significant. If we put in an additional six car subway train, that replaces 900 vehicles. We are talking about an incredible bonus, incredible assistance, to unclogging our streets, unclogging our air, and simplifying the lives of people in the community.

We ought to have the finest transit systems in the world. We are a vast country. We specialize in transportation. It is what we do to keep our communities connected, yet we have let our transit systems lag further and further behind.

I believe we ought to be making significant investments in all infrastructure, but transit is very near and dear to my heart. I know that when the NDP was able to take $5 billion earmarked for corporate tax cuts in the previous government's budget and invest some of that money in transit, it not only put new hybrid energy efficient buses on the streets of Toronto but what it did was order those buses from a plant in Mississauga and kept workers building those buses.

It was a big order for a Canadian plant. Not only was it good for the environment it kept people employed, and the people and the company paid taxes. It was good for the economy. It stimulated our economy. It was a win-win-win situation. This investment in infrastructure was done properly, not privatizing our infrastructure but investing our public dollars for the good of all Canadians That is what we ought to be doing

While I support the motion, I want to move that this motion be amended by adding the following: “And with the provision of an additional dedicated component for public transportation”.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

The amendment is in order. However, it is my duty to inform hon. members that an amendment to an opposition motion may be moved only with the consent of the sponsor of the motion. Therefore, I ask the hon. member for Saint John if there is such consent.

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

No, there is not Mr. Speaker.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

There is no consent. Therefore, the amendment cannot be moved at this time.

Questions and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to ask some questions. I am curious if the member has had an opportunity to look at budget 2006, where the government committed $1.3 billion to public transit capital investments.

I am curious, indeed, if the hon. member has taken a look at the proposed structure on some of the new investments and the $17.6 billion over seven years that goes straight to municipalities. The building Canada fund will benefit municipalities and benefit all Canadians because it is for large projects such as transit, sewage and other municipal projects with $8.8 billion.

I am also curious whether the hon. member has seen the $25 million per jurisdiction per year, which is estimated at just over $2.2 billion, and indeed, if she is aware of some of the investments the government has already made in the last two years: the Saint John Harbour cleanup, which of course is very important to Canadians of $26.6 million; and Autoroute 30 near Montreal, which is very important to the people of Montreal and the people of Quebec?

Indeed, is the hon. member aware of the FLOW, the five transit projects that we have already funded in the greater Toronto area of $962 million and we have already committed to the funding of that? Is she aware of the issue in Manitoba, the $170.5 million for the Red River floodway, which is very important?

Is the hon. member aware of any of these initiatives, including the Asia-Pacific gateway upgrade of over $1 billion? Is she aware of what the government has done and is doing?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what I do know is that the money that was committed to the extension of a key subway line in the city of Toronto is not moving forward because of the ideology of the government. The Conservatives are insisting on mandatory public-private partnership reviews before they will spend this money to expand our transit system.

We have recently seen the incredible failure of a public-private partnership for upgrading large sections of the subway system in London, England. We saw over $4 billion Canadian in cost overruns with a private consortium. The people of Britain are on the hook for that cost overrun.

The argument is that somehow these public-private partnerships take away risk from the public. The reality is, they simply do not. They privatize public infrastructure, public services and then leave the taxpayer on the hook for any cost overruns.

There may be money committed, for example, to transit in Toronto, but the money that has been pledged is not being spent and it really is a very ideological way to spend money. The city of Toronto has the sixth largest government in our country and we ought to leave it up to it to decide how to provide transit in the way it knows how to do best.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague mentioned one of the ideological barriers that the Conservative government has placed on moving forward with public transit.

In my city of Victoria, B.C. Transit has increased its ridership to 21 million people, and this despite the increase in demand. For example, bus drivers must continually pass by waiting passengers.

In the past decade, it is clear that the disinvestment by the former Liberal government has caused these problems in infrastructure. FCM members and mayors I spoke to a couple of weeks ago are concerned about the Conservative government's desire to absolutely end this infrastructure program.

I am wondering if the hon. member would comment on that real possibility. The Conservatives have extended it for a number of years, but there is no commitment about its going forward in perpetuity, and that is a real concern to all of us.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Victoria is absolutely right. I fear what is happening is less a commitment to renewing infrastructure and more a commitment to enriching some sections of the private sector. I would argue that there are lots of possibilities, as I said, with the provision of subway cars and buses in Toronto. There are lots of provisions for business opportunities, but not at the expense of privatizing our services.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is an important debate for Canadians to follow. It is unfortunate that the NDP seems to have a majority in the House right now because we are very concerned about this issue.

We are talking about the $125 million infrastructure deficit that is now growing at $23 billion a year and is estimated to be a $400 billion deficit by 2020. That is important because when we talk about what this infrastructure deficit means, we are talking about the quality of life of people in cities and towns right across this country.

We are talking about the kind of transportation options that people have, whether or not they can actually take a SkyTrain or a subway train or a bus to work and have those kinds of options. We are talking about whether or not people actually have safe water to drink and whether or not people are going to be spending more time in hospitals because of water-related illness because our water infrastructure is not being kept up.

We are talking about waste water treatment. Whether it is in Victoria, British Columbia, or right across this country, it is to make sure that the waste that our society creates is actually dealt with in a way that is environmentally effective. We are talking about the actual quality of life in our cities when we talk about social or recreational facilities.

We know that the quality of life of most Canadian families has eroded over the past 20 years. In fact, for two-thirds of Canadian families, since the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement was signed, their real income has gone. For two-thirds of Canadian families, even though they are working longer and longer hours, they are getting less and less pay.

So, essentially, their personal quality of life is diminishing, they are working longer periods of time, and they are getting less money in their pockets, which is why the debt load for most Canadian families has doubled over the same period.

Yet, at the same time, we are seeing this deterioration of our public infrastructure, and that is fundamentally important. When we are talking about the public infrastructure deficit, we are also talking about the safety of people driving to work, whether or not we are going to see the kind of overpass collapses that tragically took place in Minnesota recently because there was not the upkeep on the transportation infrastructure.

So, when we are talking about transportation infrastructure, transit infrastructure, water treatment, waste treatment, and social and physical and recreational centres, we are talking about the very quality of life that is at stake. With a $400 billion deficit growing over the next 12 years, one has to ask what has actually happened.

Under the former Liberal government the cutbacks started. We used to, up until the 1980s, maintain an infrastructure investment of 5% growth per year. That was decimated under the Liberal government. Now the Conservatives have come to power. What have they done? In their own words, today, they said that they are going to invest $33 billion over seven years. That is their own words. I am not trying to change what they have said. The parliamentary secretary was very clear: $33 billion over seven years.

What does that mean? Simple math tells us that is less than $5 billion a year, when the infrastructure deficit is growing over $22 billion a year. What that simply means is that we are going deeper and deeper into a hole that affects the quality of life and safety of Canadian families from coast to coast to coast.

Every single year, the deficit grows by another $18 billion because the government is not taking it seriously. That is even assuming that it will invest the money that it is pretending it will invest over the next seven years.

We have seen, with the pine beetle funding, big announcements of around $200 million going to support pine beetle programs in British Columbia. And after that big announcement and after the media had packed up and gone home, we have seen the devil in the details: only $24 million, in other words only about 12¢ on the dollar, has actually been invested in pine beetle programs.

So, the Conservative government, like the Liberals before, is making this promise of $33 billion over seven years. Even if the Conservatives keep their promise, and we strongly doubt that, this government has very little credibility on financial matters. We have seen how they treat fiscal matters, and I will come back to that in a moment. Even if they invested this money, we are going into the hole almost $20 billion a year over the next 12 years. The deficit will get worse and that will have an even greater impact on Canadian families.

Let us go back to the fiscal prudence of the Conservative government. It is shoveling $17 billion off the back of a truck to the wealthy corporate sector. We have $1 billion a year going to one of the wealthiest industrial sectors in North America, the petroleum industry. The government is willing to hand out all this money to the wealthiest and most profitable Canadian corporations while it is underfunding Canadian cities.

What does that mean? It is like the Canadian people sent the Prime Minister to the store to buy bread, eggs and milk, and instead, the Prime Minister bought a whole bunch of candy. He did not buy the bread, the eggs and the milk for his brothers and sisters waiting at home. He then comes back and says that he has 25¢ left, that he has a surplus, so he will give that up to the corporate sector.

The Conservatives are not investing in what Canadian cities and Canadian families need but they are giving billions of dollars to the corporate sector that does not need it because it has record levels of profit. The net result is that our water safety is in peril. Our transportation safety is in peril because we know that the highway systems, built in the 1950s and 1960s, have now come to a useful end and serious renovation is required.

It means that our transit systems, such as the SkyTrain system in British Columbia, continue to function undercapacity, even though the need is staggeringly great, particularly in the South Fraser region of the lower mainland. It also means that waste water treatment is not put into place so our environment continues to deteriorate. The quality of life that Canadian kids have with regard to recreational and cultural facilities is virtually non-existent.

That is how Conservatives handle their fiscal management. They buy candy or they buy Ferraris and go gambling rather than taking care of the house itself, repairing the roof, making sure the kids have shoes on their feet and that the bread, eggs and milk are on the table and in the fridge. That is what is so deplorable.

Let us look at the impact in my riding. In Burnaby--New Westminster, there are crying needs. Mayor Derek Corrigan and the Burnaby Citizens' Association have done a phenomenal job with scant resources. They tried for years to get the former Liberal government and now the current Conservative government to fund lake rejuvenation projects for Burnaby Lake and to apply for funding for SkyTrain, not the P3 model that is excessive in the costs, because the financing costs are higher when they go through the private sector. As we know, they have to build in the profit component so obviously they will spend more. Any accountant can tell us that.

Instead of providing for SkyTrain funding, public transit funding so the people in Burnaby, New Westminster, south of the Fraser and other parts of the lower mainland actually have transportation options, they underfund. They provide scant pennies when dollars are needed.

We have seen the chronic underfunding in policing, in the RCMP. This is something that started under the Liberals and continues under the Conservatives, something that Burnaby City Council and Mayor Derek Corrigan have been speaking very clearly about. We are talking about underfunding in a whole variety of areas.

This past spring, we saw the underfunding in flood control. The federal government is not stepping up and providing that necessary funding. Instead, it is going off and buying candy when bread, eggs and milk are needed on the table. As a result of that, municipalities, like Burnaby and New Westminster, suffer the consequences.

In New Westminster, Mayor Wayne Wright and New Westminster City Council have been pressing for funding as well for a variety of infrastructure projects. There has been talk in New Westminster for some time of a museum and arts centre, that physical and recreational infrastructure that is so desperately needed. The federal government is not there because, instead of investing in that much needed infrastructure, those fundamentals of bread, eggs and milk for Canadian cities, it chooses to go off and shovel money at the corporate sector again.

That is just not acceptable. Under the current Conservative government and under the former Liberal government, we have seen time and time again that the needs of the main streets of the cities of our country are neglected, while both of these same old, same old political parties shovel money off the back of a truck to the corporate sector.

Canadian cities need the fundamentals taken care of. They need funding so they can take care of waste treatment plants and water treatment plants to ensure water is clean and healthy. They need funding to upgrade their transportation infrastructure so it is safe. They need much more funding for public transit because it is good for the environment. Funding is important to ensure Canadian cities thrive.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, my friend was on the transportation committee and he certainly is passionate about his interests. I compliment him on being an excellent orator but I would like him to get the facts correct. It would be helpful for the people who are listening today and for the people who read the information that we provide correct facts.

I am very interested in the pine beetle as well. I represent northeastern Alberta primarily but the pine beetle is now in my constituency. My understanding, from many experts, is that what we are doing is working. Many say that the pine beetle is likely in remission, which is good news for Canada and the logging industry.

I do agree with the member in relation to the Liberals talking a lot about infrastructure but not getting anything done. I would hope that he is not suggesting that we violate the Constitution of the country, because this is not the federal government's responsibility.

We are coming to the table to help the provinces and the municipalities because we see the dire needs. This government, the Prime Minister and the minister have listened to municipalities and to the FCM and we recognize that there is a deficit. We saw this deficit even when we were in opposition. The Liberals had an opportunity to do something but they did nothing.

The greater Toronto area will receive over $829.6 million from 2005 through to 2010. Municipalities within the GTA have already received a one time payment of over $112 million under the public transit fund. I spoke earlier about all the transit initiatives that this government has undertaken because we understand clean air and the value of the environment. We committed $83 million for Mississauga and GO Transit improvements in the city. This is great news for Canada.

Those were just examples but this government is moving forward with good things for Canadians, like better air and better transit, which is good news.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish the Conservatives could take credit for the small amount of investments that are going forward but, as the parliamentary secretary well knows, in both the housing investments and the transit investments, which are inadequate, those investments came from the NDP budget of 2005. How long will the Conservatives campaign on the NDP budget amendments?

In our budget, we threw out the Liberal tax cuts to the corporate sector, tax gifts that were being thrown away, and said that the money had to go to Canadian cities. The Conservatives took the figures from that budget and have been campaigning as if they actually have done something ever since. The NDP budget amendments did that and it would be nice for the Conservatives to give credit where credit is due.

However, the amounts are inadequate. We always said that the NDP budget of 2005 was just a start. According to the FCM, the accumulated deficit now in public transit systems is $23 billion and it will continue to grow every year. The parliamentary secretary just referenced a little less than $1 billion when the deficit is $23 billion.

Canadians are not fools. They can do the math. They know that what the government is doing is completely inadequate.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Toronto Transit Commission has put forward a wonderful plan to expand the street car lines all across Toronto. The population of Toronto is expected to grow by one million people over the next 10 years, which means a lot more people will be going into the city of Toronto. A lot of condominiums are being built. It is a vibrant city. The city of Toronto needs the money. How does the NDP plan to address this issue?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Trinity—Spadina has been an incredible advocate on behalf of greater Toronto, as has the member for Toronto—Danforth and the member for Parkdale—High Park.

As the member well knows, the NDP is the only party that has put forward a comprehensive plan to deal with the population growth that the greater Toronto area will be experiencing. Toronto, under the former Liberal government and under the current Conservative government, is not being treated fairly. That has to fundamentally change.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to join in the debate today. I am very much supportive of the initiative by my colleague from Saint John in the motion, which reads:

That, consistent with the spirit of the Liberal New Deal for Cities and Communities, this House believes it is in the best interest of Canadians, that the government should take steps to make permanent the sharing of the Federal Excise Tax on Gasoline with all Canadian municipalities for the purpose of enhancing local community infrastructure.

I am pleased to speak to the motion. It is a topic for which I, along with many of my colleagues on this side, have worked. We remember very well when some of us were elected almost 15 years ago and the issue of supporting municipalities had long been neglected for a series of reasons, and it was clear to most Canadians. In 1992-93 the country was gripped by recession after eight years of Conservative government. We had deficits that were spiralling out of control.

The leader of our party at the time, along with the then finance minister, who later became the next leader of the party, made it abundantly clear that investment in people and in cities and partnering with cities was one of the best ways to achieve a better, stronger Canada. I represented many communities at the time, Pickering, Ajax and Uxbridge, and I also represented Whitby at the time, which is now the riding of the Minister of Finance.

I see the Minister of Transport is here with us today to participate in the debate. He will have the opportunity in a moment.

It seems to me that we have built a tremendous amount of goodwill in the country based on recognizing the need for affordable housing, public transit, restoring our sewer and our water facilities. These are not only goods in and of themselves. We want to ensure that we maintain a standard of living. All governments have an important role, regardless of the questions on the Constitution, to ensure that Canadians from coast to coast are able to at least access the kinds of resources that build stronger and safer communities and build the kind of communities that build a stronger Canada.

I had a bit to do with this at the outset. In 1998 I chaired a committee of Liberal members of Parliament. It looked at the idea of using gas taxes that were derived from municipal and federal coffers to assist municipalities. Members will recall that in August 2001 I wrote a letter to the then minister of transport, asking him to consider very strongly the idea of using a portion of gas tax, which I felt was the GST compounded on the other taxes, and that this amount could go to municipalities to leverage some effect in building and restoring some of the transit needs.

In my region of Durham at the time, which is now part of my riding in Toronto, the need for transit back in 2000 was over $300 million. Today, in 2007, we know our transit needs are certainly not being met.

The Conservative government, which walked into town back in March 2006, said that it would be put $800 million into Toronto. In fact, it put a pittance in eastern Toronto. Ridings anywhere east of Bayview or Yonge Street, all the way out to Oshawa, received $2.5 million for transit. This is an area of well over two million Canadians and it received $2.5 million for transit. No wonder our roads are blocked. No wonder there is a sense of cynicism that all the proposed money went into one basket.

I heard the parliamentary secretary quote some money that was given to the city of Mississauga, and that is great. However, I also am cognizant of the position taken by the mayor of Mississauga, Hazel McCallion, who was extremely upset, along with other members of the FCM, at the new arrangement by the government to do a smoke and mirrors approach to funding.

Some of the money was taken from previous programs, which we introduced under the new deal, and some of it was taken from gas taxes. This how the government came up with the so-called $33 billion. Cities cannot even access a good portion of that $33 billion. The hon. member from British Columbia, who spoke before me, talked about the P3 project. Others talked about border crossings. These are not areas that the cities will be readily able to access to meet their needs.

Our party has taken the position, as it has in the past, of ensuring that there is an important link between cities and the federal government. While the Conservative government's approach is that cities do not necessarily rate and that it is more interested in working and making arrangements with the provinces, we believe respect for municipalities from all levels of government is paramount.

More important, there are realities in our country today. The presence of so many new Canadians coming to our communities and the need for settlement, the need for affordable housing, the need for recognizing the burdens that have been placed on many of the municipalities, compels us to looking more deeply, more intensely and more respectfully to the provinces.

Under the Liberal government, of which I was a proud part, we had a cities mandate. Issues of cities were very carefully treated. I would not say we had a secretariat, but it was an area within government, within cabinet, that was taken very seriously. It has now been rolled up.

I hope that the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities is well aware that this is now his responsibility, as it comes under his mandate.

That is nice, but it demonstrates once again that the Conservatives are not serious about cities. They are not serious about treating them in a respectful way, the way in which they clearly deserve.

In 2005 the Liberal government renewed the municipal-rural infrastructure fund, the Canada strategic infrastructure fund, the border infrastructure fund and the public transit capital. That commitment was worth $1.65 billion annually through 2014 for a total of $11.5 billion from 2007 to 2014.

The Conservative budget, which the hon. member believes is such a great thing, only includes $4 billion of the funds that were renewed from these same programs, a cut of $7.5 billion to municipalities. The Conservatives have also included in their grandiose scheme $11.8 billion in gas tax funding and $5.8 billion in GST rebates for municipalities as part of that $33 billion what they call building Canada fund. Both the rebates and the gas tax transfer were Liberal government initiatives. I know the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities does not like that, but that is the reality. They are picking and choosing and trying to cobble something together.

Above all I think what is most vexing for any objective onlooker is the fact that the money will not be given in a predictable sense over the long term. That is exactly what our motion calls for today. We would like to see the government ensure that there will be ongoing predictability and funding for municipalities and in particular, I will speak to this more passionately in just a moment, ensure that gas tax revenues are dedicated permanently to municipalities, not just for the next year or two and then re-appropriate the money somewhere else.

With all due respect, many of our cities are on life-support. I believe only four municipalities, and the record will clearly show this, do not run something equivalent to a debt in Canada. All other municipalities are sinking. It is clear to me that Canadians readily identify with or understand the problems of crumbling infrastructure, bridges that fail, climatic concerns with respect to bridge and sewer infrastructures and to ensure the quality of our water.

Ontario had an inquiry two or three years ago with respect to how the water systems failed the people of Walkerton. Since the municipalities are on the front line of delivering services every advantage, every optimal opportunity that we have as a Parliament must be given to ensure municipalities can continue do the work that they do while recognizing ever increasing burdens.

There are issues that we will try to work with in time, but let us talk a bit about the gas tax for a moment.

Right now in my province of Ontario, the province takes 14.7¢ on every litre of gasoline. That price does not go up and down with the price of gasoline. It is a fixed price. In 1998 we recommended that the amount be dedicated strictly to roads and to the provision of transportation for which the tax was intended. I am not here to tell the provinces what to do, but it is clear to us that it would have been opportunity for consumers and would have given the provinces an opportunity to give back some of the downloading that took place, admittedly by the federal and provincial governments during that period of time.

The second component on the taxation is 10¢ a litre, which is the federal excise tax. The federal excise tax does not change with the price of gasoline or other fuels. On any non-commercial type of fuel like gasoline used by passengers day in and day out, there is also the provision of a 6%, soon to be 5%, tax that is added to it.

Here is the issue of contention. In 2000 the then leader of the opposition, now public safety minister, challenged the Liberal government to ensure that those taxes went back to consumers, using the report I had written in 1998. In fact, what he did was pick and choose. We said that amount of tax, the GST applied to the 10¢ in Ontario and to the 14.7¢, should find its way back to consumers. Since no provision could be made to do that, the next best step was to ensure that it went toward public transit.

A number of colleagues will be nodding their heads, recognizing that this would be a way of ensuring that public transit or roads or infrastructure to better finance our highway system and municipalities would be an extremely important and useful mechanism ensuring that Canadians could take advantage of the some of the best roads in the world, particularly in my community.

Highway 401, which goes through my riding, and I suspect the ridings of a good number of members of Parliament, is really the backbone of our economy. Without that infrastructure, it would be hard to imagine any type of success in economic vitality. Yet what the government has failed to understand is the need to ensure that tax power, through gasoline going to municipalities, is absolutely indispensable in providing long term viability, not only for our roads but for the health and well-being of our communities. Time and time again Canadians have accepted the primacy and importance of ensuring municipalities are properly funded.

I have had an opportunity to look at what it has done for communities in my riding over the years with respect to infrastructure. Communities that I formerly represented, Ajax, for instance, were able to take advantage of some of the initial infrastructure funding in 1993. That would be the same infrastructure the then Reform Party said would be like trying to use a penlight battery to start a 747. A 747 is up in the air and flying. That was one heck of a battery.

However, what we also understand and recognize is that governments will make proper investments not as a means for the private sector to take advantage of it, but to recognize that governments have a very important role in ensuring that all players in the lives of Canadians, all structures of government, all offices and agencies, have an opportunity. Clearly, I hope what will come out of this debate is a recognition by the government that it got it wrong with respect to cities.

We had a very good relationship with the municipalities. We received the support of a lot of municipalities across the country. Yes, there may be some partisan considerations that are given to this, but overall there was no doubt in anyone's mind that if they had to choose a time between 1993 and 2005 as one of the hallmarks of the government, which I was very proud to be part of, it would be the deal we had with cities to make cities a better place.

We all have a responsibility to ensure that the priority here has to continue to be looking after the well-being and interests of our cities. They are important players. While the Constitution of 1867 has them as kind of a consideration within the purview of the provincial governments, I think very few Canadians would dismiss or not readily recognize this. When we talk of communities like mine in Durham region or York region to the north of the city of Toronto, these institutions and communities have matured and have a very important stake to play in the lives of Canadians.

We cannot ignore the fact that our municipalities are going through a very difficult time in terms of financing. Perhaps there are creative ways coming down the road. Our party has certainly suggested some. My colleagues have talked about some of the priorities we would like to see. Some of those ideas come in demonstrating not only a difference between our party and the governing Conservative Party, but we would direct money to transit systems to allow them to increase service and purchase new equipment.

The Conservative plan gives a tax credit to users and does not give anything to municipalities to allow expansion or improvement of the current transit system. That is very serious, considering buses, trains and rapid transit ideas will not get the benefit of expansion. Buses that are some 35 years of age are being literally kept on the roads because there is only enough money to cover that amount of vehicles.

The federal government has said that it will give money to users. It is great to give a tax credit to users for buses that do not work. I cannot see a more nonsensical approach to not recognizing the problem as opposed to dealing with the symptom. Riders will not ride a bus that is will break down or cannot arrive on time or worse, that it will get stuck, or lose a wheel, or the engine will break down, or whatever the case may be and there is no opportunity to take advantage of those credits.

We have to recognize that with transit communities like Toronto, transit among communities in Durham, transit across this country, particularly green transit, which I think brings us into a whole different field, it is not just the benefit of building better transit and better municipalities but also the outcomes, such as more people riding transit, with newer technologies being introduced. Yes they are costly, but they will pay dividends for the country in ways that are numerous.

We have talked to the manufacturing sector. I am a vice-chair of the industry committee. We have talked about the need to ensure that green technologies are used and new technologies are brought forward in order to advance better employment opportunities for Canadians.

There is a very important trickle down effect in terms of the federal government recognizing its responsibilities with transit.

In terms of general infrastructure programs, it is clear that the government has only promised to maintain the current agreements we have in place with no mention of any future investments. What Canadian cities have long called for and what this motion addresses in very plain language is the promise of long term funding and support.

Plans and programs that are one or two years in length are of absolutely no help. The reality is that cities need to look ahead with 10 to 20 year programs. That is important. They need to have that kind of sustainability and predictability in their funding. The federal government could play a much better role in doing that, not rehashing old programs, or mixing up a few and saying that the provinces can decide, or that it is not a federal responsibility and therefore the federal government will not have anything to do with it, or worse, trying to make it look like a $33 billion commitment when in fact it is a cut of $7.5 billion in terms of real money going to cities.

We as a government created a separate department, as I mentioned earlier, to promote cities at the federal level. I had the opportunity to be with the minister of transport who had made some comments. It was not a full ministry but it was a separate seat at the table, something that had not existed since the days of Prime Minister Trudeau. It is clear that once the swearing in of the new government took place, the cities department was rolled into the Department of Transport. That is unfortunate. It sends the wrong message.

We need to know that cities are growing. They need our help. They deserve our attention but they also deserve respect. This is not some kind of political football between parties. We need to recognize once and for all, the Constitution notwithstanding, that cities are here to stay. The role of cities and the importance they have is not just in terms of the representation they carry, but they are the distant early warnings in many of our regions across the country. It does not really matter where we are, the government in the first instance for a good number of Canadians, in fact for all Canadians, is their municipal governments.

We must not fail to address their needs. We must recognize them, as we did as the Liberal government with respect to the GST rebates, as we did with respect to the federal government providing one-third of the financing to help municipalities meet their needs, in particular as it came to water, transit and infrastructure.

We must continue to recognize these things, not just in terms of piecemeal approaches here and there and several other priorities. It is incumbent on Parliament tonight when it deliberates on this particular important and very successful, I believe, resolution by my colleague from Saint John that we can never overemphasize the need to support our municipalities in tangible ways. The need is real. The growth is real. If we want to plan ahead and grow consistently, I suggest that Parliament adopt this motion. It is a very worthwhile motion. It is high time Canadians understood that this Parliament stands firmly behind our cities.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to the comments of my colleague across the way. He highlighted from 1993 to 2005, those years which he says shine on the previous Liberal government's record.

During that period of time I was a city councillor and those were tough years. Those were years of cut and slash. Those were years when the federal government downloaded onto local government. We are now seeing the consequences of those mistakes, mistakes where the Liberals cut and cut and cut at the cost of our local citizens. It cost the infrastructure.

We now have a government that is providing a renewal to the infrastructure, working with the provinces and local government to see a renewal and it is called “Building Canada”. A couple of items are highlighted in my mind, such as the Saint John harbour. In my own riding of Langley, I saw first-hand what those cuts from the Liberals cost us. It cost us in health care also. They cut $25 billion from health care.

For years the Liberals were aware of the problems in Saint John harbour. It was under this Conservative government that finally the cleaning up of the harbour was dealt with. Why did the Liberals not participate in that? We have heard a lot of rhetoric from them, but again no action. That is their legacy: rhetoric and no action. Why did they not deal with that?

In my own riding we had a problem with the sewer structure. It was our government that finally funded that. I was pleased to announce $3 million on a $9 million project, one-third, one-third, one-third. Why did the Liberals neglect the infrastructure when they knew it was crumbling?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member commented about one-third, one-third, one-third. Unless the hon. member wants to swallow his comment completely, he would have to recognize that the one-third that has gone to municipalities for the past 15 years is the result of the federal government making a priority, notwithstanding at the time the recognition of the debt in this country which was putting a greater burden on municipalities and all Canadians.

Would the hon. member like to remind this Parliament where his former party stood when it brought the deficit and debt in this country into uncontrollable levels? Municipalities would have had to borrow money at 15%. We recognized that. We made cuts that were necessary, but we also ensured that municipalities at the same time had funding to meet those needs.

What has that given rise to? Canadians are spending better. The standard of living is much higher. Municipalities have decent infrastructure. That member has no idea of the damage that would have been done if our federal Liberal government had not responded accurately, precisely to understand and address the gravity of the situation of a nation which was going out of control, which was the basket case of the international community.

Had we listened to the member and his party at the time, of course, we would all have been bankrupt. The reality is that his party is now making announcements while doing a bit of smoke and mirrors, cutting here, cutting there, based on the good work of the Liberal Party in bringing financial order to this country with prudent spending. We brought it to a position where the country's financial house is now in order.

The member of Parliament can talk about what he might have done in hindsight, but he will not do what the province of Ontario did. When it had those cuts, what did it do? It turned it into a tax cut which is exactly what those guys over there are doing. They clearly understand that their priorities are on tax cuts, not on Canadians, not on cities. It is time for the member to admit the charade he is trying to put forward in the House of Commons today.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP supports a marvellous plan that would move 175 million riders a year and build 120 kilometres of track. It is called Transit City. It was put forward by the City of Toronto on March 16 of this year. It would have seven streetcar right of way networks all across Toronto and along 11 kilometres of waterfront. Imagine street carriages would go right through the waterfront, through the GO Transit corridor using existing tracks. There would be 14 kilometres of light rapid transit in Sheppard East, Don Mills, Eglinton Crosstown, Scarborough Malvern, Jane, Etobicoke Finch West, all the way to Humber College.

This plan has seven streetcar right of way routes that would extend across Toronto. It would move millions of riders. It would reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It would take about $6 billion of combined city, provincial and federal dollars. At the rate we are going in terms of our infrastructure funding, we will never be able to see this as a reality.

If we look at the transitcity.ca website, we will notice that the federal government is completely missing in its contribution, in its announcement, in its support. It is really important to invest in public transit, to invest in this wonderful transit plan.

The hon. member is from the GTA. Would he support this plan? He said that we need to invest in public transit. It would be good for our riders. It would be good for our environment. It would be good for creating jobs. Would he support it?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, not only would I support it, but let me refer to the August 29, 2001 issue of the Toronto Star, the Greater Toronto section, and the third paragraph of an article by Royson James, “There has to be a better way; TTC needs $300 million”:

On the agenda [of the FCM] is a copy of a letter to federal Transportation Minister David Collenette from Liberal MP [my name] (Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge). He asks Collenette to divert 1.5 cents a litre federal gasoline tax to municipalities for transportation needs.

We are talking about something that this member of Parliament and the Liberal Party recognized some time ago.

The Conservatives simply ignore transit and would like to revise what happened 10 years ago, but with respect to the greater Toronto area, the fact is if there was any money that could be given to the municipalities to help realize those kinds of initiatives, I am from eastern Toronto and in my speech I mentioned that well over two million Canadians will not benefit one iota from the federal government's announcement on transportation and transit in the GTA because it all goes to the North York region. We are frozen out. We are the poor sisters from the Conservative perspective. It really begs the question, what do the Conservative have against big cities? What do they have against Toronto?

If they want to make any inroads in that city, I would suggest they do the right thing and begin putting money into infrastructure. That is one of the worthwhile projects I would support.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of questions, I do have a question for the Liberal member for Pickering—Scarborough East. What did he mean when he said, “It's hard to make the argument that Toronto has great needs when it's doing so extraordinarily well economically. It's a hard argument to make in the weaker regions of the country”?

I want to know what he meant by that, because we did not listen to him when we decided what to do on this side of the House. This government put over $2.3 billion in funding for infrastructure in the greater Toronto area. We have also committed over $144 million in funding for infrastructure in Mississauga.

I would like to know what he meant when he said that the city of Toronto was not important enough to get funding.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have no idea where he is quoting that from. I am sure it is part of the Conservative Party blog which the Conservatives use from time to time when they take selective quotes out of context. We know the Conservatives like to do that.

Let us deal with the fact of what the Conservative government is trying to do. It is smoke and mirrors. The Conservatives are telling Canadians that it is the largest investment in the city's infrastructure. It clearly is not. They cannot take a position that they are doing something when in fact they know full well they are not. Municipalities are suffering right now.

That hon. member wants to spend his time being cute by quoting out of context. Let me give that member one right back.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You said it.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Where is the half a billion bucks for my community and for my city of Toronto and Durham region for transit? I can tell the member where the money has gone.