Debates of Dec. 6th, 2007

National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, what happened 18 years ago was a terrible criminal act against innocent young women in Montreal. Nothing can possibly excuse such an act. Today, as we commemorate the tragedy, this government encourages everyone to think of these young women, their families and their friends, and to pray for them.

At the same time, members of this government and, I hope, of all parties in this House, reaffirm our commitment to fighting crime and violence against women and all people.

The Environment

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the world has come together at Bali to try to prevent environmental disaster, but the government is standing in the way. The government is undermining years of work by the international community to take real action against global warming.

The Prime Minister has turned Canada from leader to laggard to saboteur.

Will he now reverse his position in Bali and commit to absolute greenhouse gas reductions?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this government believes strongly there needs to be absolute greenhouse gas reductions in Canada and across the world. That is why this is the first government in Canadian history to actually impose mandatory greenhouse gas reductions on Canadian industry.

Our position is that countries like the United States should also accept mandatory reductions. They have not yet taken that position and neither has China.

We will not be able to reduce emissions until those two countries and other large emitters accept reductions. We are working to make sure all countries accept mandatory emissions reductions globally.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, nobody agrees with the Government of Canada's position in Bali. Well-known environmentalist Steven Guilbault said, “Everyone is disappointed and outraged.”

I would therefore ask the Prime Minister to order his minister to lead by example and commit to absolute reduction targets.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this government's system will bring about absolute reductions in greenhouse gas emissions by 2010-12. That is our government's position.

His government, however, refused to adopt mandatory targets. In contrast, we have targets for all major emitters, including the United States and China. The Leader of the Opposition seems to think that big countries like China should not have targets. That position is irresponsible.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, so the Canadian position is that if China and the United States do not sign on, Canada is going to do nothing? The position does not add up.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

Order, order. The hon. member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore has the floor to ask a question. We have to be able to hear the question.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when will the government move from impossible positions which say it will not do anything until everyone does something? When will it move from aspiration to obligation? When will it move from being a bad model to a role model?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the position the deputy leader of the Liberal Party articulates is the position that his government had. It was his government's position that it was not going to do anything about greenhouse gas emissions.

This government is the first government that has mandatory greenhouse gas emission reductions in this country.

The Liberal Party is trying to argue internationally, along with countries like China, that big developing countries should not have emissions reductions. If they do not, we will not reduce emissions and that is an irresponsible position that this government will not adopt.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if he cannot get our position right, I have no confidence that he will get Canada's position right.

There is only one way to stop climate change. Aspirational targets are not good enough. Intensity targets are not good enough. What we need are absolute reduction targets.

When will the Conservative government negotiate mandatory targets?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we support mandatory targets now. That is our position in Bali. However, that is a pretty ridiculous position for the member to be taking after he said, during the leadership convention, that the leader of his party did absolutely nothing.

If the Liberal Party had done nothing on climate change, that would have been a gift. But that party did not do nothing. It sat back and increased emissions by 32.9% above 1990 levels. Those members should be standing up, they should be apologizing, and frankly, he should resign.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the premier of Quebec has asked the federal government to show leadership in dealing with climate change. With its plan, Quebec has the best per capita results on greenhouse gases in Canada. It is the complete opposite of the federal government which is using China and India to play the game of the Americans and the oil companies.

Why does the Prime Minister not show leadership at Bali by working to adopt a plan based on the polluter-pays principle, with absolute targets and using 1990 as the reference year, while taking per capita emissions into account?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is not like the Government of Quebec. This government has established mandatory greenhouse gas reductions. We are insisting that all countries, all the large emitters, adopt targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It is not per capita emissions that cause global warming; it is the emissions that cause global warming.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we know that if you take the volume of reduction and divide it by the number of residents of a country that is the per capita reduction. It is rather simple to understand.

That being said, the premier of Quebec repeated today that we will all pay the price for the federal government's inaction on climate change.

Does the Prime Minister realize that, by refusing to implement a real plan on climate change with binding targets and 1990 as the reference year, his attitude will have unprecedented financial and social costs for Quebec and Canada?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this government’s plan is to impose mandatory targets for all industries in Canada and the plans of the provinces, including Quebec, are funded by the Canada ecotrust. The position of the leader of the Bloc, like the position of the Liberal party, is that the large emitters, like China, should not have mandatory targets. It is completely impossible to have absolute global reductions without the participation of all the large emitters. That is the position of this government.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the Stern report, it will cost us 10 to 15 times as much if we do nothing about the environment. It is irresponsible to play off the environment against the economy, as the Conservatives—in cahoots with the United States and Japan—are doing in order to derail the Bali conference. The Prime Minister should know we need fixed, binding, short-term targets, with 1990 as the base year, in order to establish a real carbon exchange, which will also contribute to the efforts that Quebec is making.

Will the Prime Minister finally get it through his head that success in Bali will have a positive effect not only on the environment but also on the economy and especially on the economy of Quebec?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the government agrees that we need binding targets and must have absolute reductions. That is why we are taking action.

By regulating big industries, we have a national target of an absolute reduction of 20% by 2020. This government is taking action, something that the Bloc has never done over its many years here.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister should know that Quebec’s economy needs 1990 to be used as the base year, rather than 2006, so that Quebec companies can benefit from their past efforts. He should also know that we need fixed, binding, greenhouse gas reduction targets and not the targets the Conservatives have set to please their friends in the oil companies.

Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that in order to establish a real carbon exchange in Montreal, he will have to give up his polluter-paid principle in favour of polluter-pays?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I must answer this question by saying that the Bloc’s position is self-contradictory. It insists that the government should set up a carbon exchange in Montreal but it is opposed to any federal regulation of exchanges. They are contradicting themselves.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that the Prime Minister is in no position to give anyone lessons. He refuses to take on the big polluters and tell them something specific and practical, namely that they must reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. He would rather talk about big polluters elsewhere in the world.

Why will he not take seriously absolute emission reduction targets for the biggest polluters in Canada, such as the big oil companies?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, as I just said, this is the first Canadian government to establish binding targets for all Canadian industries. It is on the basis of this program that we encourage the other large emitters in the world to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. Without the participation of all the large emitters, these emissions can never be reduced.

It is important for us to get an effective international protocol to achieve this objective.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what we are seeing is the same smoke and mirrors game that gets played by the Bush administration. It is exactly what we are seeing here and the big focus is on other countries. Let us focus on other countries and hope that nobody notices that our government here is permitting the biggest polluters to continue to pollute.

The Prime Minister likes to say there are reductions for the biggest industrial sectors, but these reductions, so-called, allow them to pollute more, a lot more, and the rest of the world knows it. That is why they are not taking Canada seriously.

Why is he trying to undermine international negotiations? Why is he--

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

The Right Hon. Prime Minister.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the United States and many other countries, this government does have mandatory emissions reductions targets for all industries that will in fact cause significant cost to this economy.

When the leader of the NDP gets up and talks about contradictions, hypocrisy or whatever his terms are, I want to draw his attention to his party's behaviour yesterday when the member for London—Fanshawe got up in the House and fabricated a story against the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services. The member for Kitchener Centre apologized. She should be here to apologize.