Debates of Dec. 6th, 2007

Opposition Motion--Federal Excise Tax on Gasoline

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Where is the sponsorship money?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is heckling from both sides of the Conservative Party because they think it is all about sponsorship

Let me tell the hon. member, get on with governing this country, not shortchanging cities, not shortchanging Canadians and leaving our cities in a position where they cannot fend for themselves. Shame on the Conservative Party.

Let the public understand once and for all that the Conservative Party does not support cities. It does not support the people within them. It could not give a damn about Canadians in terms of their concerns. When it comes down to it, let us understand where Conservatives stand on cities.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, after that outburst from my hon. colleague, I have a chance to set the record straight on exactly what we have done and what we are doing.

I must say I was a bit surprised by the motion by my hon. colleague from Saint John, who would like us to be guided by the action of the previous government in renewing our infrastructure.

It is true that the previous government introduced the gas tax. We recognized the merits of that initiative. Moreover, our government has extended it by four years, which the hon. member forgot to mention.

In this way, we are providing municipalities with an additional $8 billion that they can use to improve their water and sewage systems, public transit and, of course, local roads. However, for 13 long years, the Liberal government turned a deaf ear to municipalities' concerns and made massive cuts—I repeat, massive cuts—to transfers to the provinces, which had a serious impact on every municipality in the country.

Early in our mandate, in 2006, our government recognized that action and infrastructure investment were urgently required as a direct result of the inaction and negligence of the former Liberal government. I sincerely believe that instead of setting itself up as a model when it is actually the cause of the problem, the party opposite should take note of what we have done and what we are doing. We acted quickly to introduce a world-class infrastructure program in Canada.

On November 6, together with the Prime Minister, I had the honour of launching the new $33 billion building Canada plan, the most important infrastructure program of modern times in our country. It provides for fixed financial assistance over seven years. That is the longest commitment made by a government in the past 50 years.

I would like to remind the members opposite that, in 2006, we consulted the provinces and the territories. We also met with municipalities through the Federation of Canadian Municipalities in order to deal with the infrastructure deficit unfortunately created by the previous government. During these consultations, we learned that cities would particularly like to have stable, long-term, flexible and predictable funding. That is exactly what we delivered.

The building Canada plan includes base funding of $17.6 billion—more than half of the plan for municipalities until 2014—including a 100% refund of GST and $11.8 billion from the gas tax fund.

I realize that the member has not said a word about the GST. It is very risky for a Liberal member to attempt to explain his party's position on this tax. During the career of the member for Saint John, he was forced, when in opposition, to defend the abolition of the GST and then, when in power, to defend keeping it. All members will remember that.

Base funding of $25 billion per year to provinces and territories has been allocated for a period of seven years. This totals $175 billion in allocations to each administration for basic infrastructure needs such as bridge safety. $8.8 billion will be available through the building Canada fund for strategic projects in major urban centres and for projects in small communities.

Indeed, special attention will be given to communities with populations under 100,000. The sum of $2.1 billion will go to the new gateways and border crossings fund to improve border and cross-border trade with the United States. An investment of $1.25 billion will create a new national fund for public-private partnerships and $1 billion will be allocated to the Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor initiative.

These investments are a historic contribution that meets the infrastructure needs of municipalities, provinces and territories. It is financial assistance dedicated to things that are important to Canadians. I am talking about clean water, more efficient public transit, safe roads and bridges, and of course green energy.

No federal government in the history of this country has ever made such a large investment over such a long period of time to modernize infrastructure. No level of government, however, can tackle the infrastructure problems our country is facing itself. All levels of government, federal, provincial, territorial and municipal, have to work together in partnership to meet these challenges. That is why this government has been careful to consult the provinces, the territories and the municipalities in developing this plan.

This stems also from our desire to establish open federalism in the spirit that led to the Confederation of Canada. The Government of Canada is doing its part. We have put $33 billion on the table. Now the provinces, territories and municipalities have to act. After all, at the end of the day, they are the ones who manage the infrastructure and who must ensure that the construction or rebuilding is done, with our financial support.

For the provinces and territories, the time has come for framework agreements to be signed so they can access the funds available under our new program. For municipalities in most provinces and territories, it is time to urge their provincial and territorial governments to sign the necessary agreements so they can submit projects and improve the public infrastructure of Canada, as British Columbia and Nova Scotia have done. I would also note that we are engaged in other initiatives in this regard and things are working well.

For example, on July 30 our government announced the Ontario-Quebec continental gateway and trade corridor initiative, which will provide central Canada with a strategic transportation system, one that will be integrated and competitive and will promote more efficient movement of international and domestic trade, inside and outside Canada.

Canada's federal government is doing its share. We have put $33 billion on the table. It is time for Canada's provinces, territories and municipalities to follow our lead. After all, they are the ones that directly manage our infrastructure and look after its construction and renovation, with our financial support.

For provinces and territories, it is time to sign the framework agreements within the context of the building Canada plan so that they may begin accessing available funds.

For municipalities, it is time to invite their respective provincial or territorial government to sign the necessary agreements so they can begin submitting their projects and begin improving public infrastructure, as is already the case in British Columbia and Nova Scotia.

However, I want to underline other important initiatives that we have undertaken.

For example, last July 30, our government announced the Ontario-Quebec continental gateway and trade corridor, which will give central Canada a strategic, integrated and competitive transportation system and promote the efficient movement of international trade and links from central Canada to global markets.

Moreover, last October 14, we signed a memorandum of understanding with the provinces of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador for the development of Canada's Atlantic gateway.

By signing this protocol, the five governments show their support for a shared vision. Establishing an Atlantic gateway that is part of an integrated and competitive strategic transportation network will clearly facilitate international trade on the North American east coast.

We are also looking at the potential of northern regions as possible gateways as well.

The government will continue to seek better cooperation and collaboration with provinces and territories to prioritize the financing of this infrastructure.

Expertise and private capital can fill gaps and make a larger contribution to the construction of infrastructure in our country. This is why we must now turn to the topic of public-private partnerships.

The government will incite public-private partnerships by providing $1.3 billion to the PPP fund, or the public-private partnership fund, within the building Canada fund.

We are also studying the potential of our northern regions as a possible gateway. In that regard, in addition to being a powerful instrument of economic development, the infrastructure will also contribute to asserting our sovereignty in an area of the world that is attracting ever increasing interest.

The Government of Canada will be continuing to work with the provinces and territories to make infrastructure funding a priority. We are aware, however, that governments cannot meet all infrastructure needs themselves. Private expertise and capital can fill many of the gaps and make a significant contribution to building the infrastructure.

That is why we will encourage opportunities for public-private partnerships, through building Canada’s public-private partnership fund. We will also be working, as we are now, in fact, to create a public-private partnerships office that will promote the use of such partnerships for infrastructure projects.

I would need a lot more time to give a complete description of the initiatives we have undertaken to improve infrastructure in Canada. However, it is important, above all, to remember that our government has made massive investments, in consultation with our provincial partners, to create a strong economy, a healthy environment and more prosperous communities.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was interesting to listen to the minister go on about his huge commitment, but I will speak to that later.

Since the Conservatives took office, I have asked the minister several times about the commitment regarding the transit expansion for the GTA, and in particular, the route that was to go to York University. I continue to get non-answers from him.

I ask him today, where is the commitment that the Liberals made? You had initially said that you would support it. Where is it now? When will that be followed through?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I would just remind the hon. member for York West to address her questions through the Chair.

The hon. Minister of Transport.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time, I believe, that the hon. member has raised this issue, but I might be mistaken. I am happy to respond to that.

The Prime Minister and my colleague the Minister of Finance earlier this year made a historic announcement of roughly $960 million in which the FLOW initiative was put forward. There were also a certain number of elements within it. That commitment is ongoing.

This government, contrary to the previous government, on average is committing over $5 billion yearly to help municipal and provincial infrastructure through 2014. That is our contribution. The Liberals, during the course of the 13 years they were in power, acknowledged roughly $1.3 billion for that period of time. One can see that their commitment and their vocabulary around infrastructure issues is nothing but a lot of hot air.

We are getting the job done on these issues. The money is there. The programs are there. The financing is there. Infrastructure framework agreements are in place with two provinces and we are looking forward to having many more over the course of the coming weeks.

We are contributing to bettering Canada and making sure that Canada has globally recognized important infrastructure.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I very much enjoyed hearing the minister say that, ultimately, the Liberals had put pressure on the provinces' finances because of the elimination of the deficit and that they were largely responsible for the problems facing the cities today. He forgot to mention that, in the end, the annual deficit was also largely brought on by successive Conservative governments. He forgot to say that, but history always gets forgotten a little.

In terms of agreements, we know that the Federation of Canadian Municipalities asked for $123 billion. From the very first announcements, the minister did not accept that amount of $123 billion. He made a few little comments, which I will not repeat here today. It was nevertheless a very serious study.

Is he aware that, regarding the amount he announced today, that is, the $11.8 billion from the gas tax combined with the $5.8 billion from the GST, if he were to add the building Canada funds and even the $25 million a year for seven years, this would total approximately $28.75 billion over seven years? It is not nearly enough to meet the immediate needs, which require $123 billion. I hope he knows this.

I would like to ask him why the agreement with Quebec still has not been signed? Will he promise to stop asking Quebec for clauses providing, for example, that the Official Languages Act replace the Charter of the French Language, or that the Canadian Environmental Protection Act replace the provincial legislation? He knows very well that we have our own legislation in Quebec. Will he stop attaching such conditions and is this not why he has yet to sign the agreement with Quebec?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am always happy to respond to a question from my colleague, who is familiar with municipal affairs since he worked as a municipal councillor and mayor. We both have the same background in that respect.

When we took power in 2006, I met with people from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, and the figure that came up was a $60 billion deficit. Based on that information, we made a commitment to design a new program called Building Canada. At the time, municipalities asked for long-term, flexible and predictable funding.That is what we gave them.

As for the negotiations between the Canadian and Quebec governments, they took some time: over five years. We have been in power for only 20 months. I have worked on this issue with my colleague, the hon. Minister for Canadian Intergovernmental Affairs, Benoît Pelletier, whom we know well, since he is from the Outaouais area.

Obviously, open federalism has its benefits. We were able to resolve this issue and—as the member knows—we were able to deal with the issue of the imbalance, which as everyone will recall, was brought up by the Bloc Québécois.

We also knew that we had to take action. Unfortunately, the Bloc Québécois was unable to resolve the issue. We did something about it. The Liberals did not think there was a fiscal imbalance. So we dealt with it.

Obviously, I am committed to making sure that negotiations with the Government of Quebec continue as they should.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we know that traffic congestion has huge economic, social and environmental costs. In Toronto, between 2004 and 2006, there were 27 million extra riders, bringing up to 445 million riders per year. We know that we need a fast, reliable, electric, light rail transit system, which is why in March, Toronto had this new fabulous plan called Transit City, with 120 kilometres of light rapid transit, projecting 175 million riders a year.

I want to ask the minister, would he support a plan of this nature because it has dramatic impacts in reducing gas emissions? The new FLOW funding program does not include this plan.

We are looking at 11 kilometres along the waterfront. We are looking at light rapid transit going from the Ex onto the GO Train corridor to the east, Queensway/Lakeshore, Sheppard East, Scarborough/Malvern, Jane, Etobicoke/Finch West, Eglinton Crosstown and Don Mills. It is a great program. Will the minister support such a wonderful streetcar/light rapid transit plan?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to take a question from a fellow colleague who has served at the municipal level. There is a fraternity among people who have done that because basically a lot of the needs that are expressed in our communities are done through that level of government.

I want to indicate to my colleague that the extension of the gas tax from 2010 to 2014 will indeed give an additional $1 billion, or close to $1 billion, to the Toronto municipal government, so that it can pursue objectives such as the project she has indicated.

As well, when we came into power, we clearly indicated that we would not change the parameters of the gas tax. Indeed, we increased it. That is another $1 billion, roughly, that is going to the city of Toronto.

Since we have been here, I can legitimately stand up in the House and say that through gas tax transfers, the greater city of Toronto will be receiving close to $2 billion.

That does not exclude the city of Toronto from submitting projects under the building Canada fund, whereby we do promote, we want to promote, and the hon. member is absolutely right in talking about problems that are generated through congestion, and we do want to foster urban transit.

As a former chair of the Urban Transit Corporation in the province of Quebec, I am dearly committed to urban transit. If projects are put forward, the projects meet the requirements of the program, and the provinces are on side, I will be more than happy to accommodate those kinds of projects.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is always good to have the opportunity to address various issues in the House.

I will be splitting my time with the member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River.

Today, we have the following motion before us. It reads:

That, consistent with the spirit of the Liberal New Deal for Cities and Communities, this House believes it is in the best interest of Canadians, that the government should take steps to make permanent the sharing of the Federal Excise Tax on Gasoline with all Canadian municipalities for the purpose of enhancing local community infrastructure.

It is an important motion and I am pleased that the opposition has put it on the table, so that we can have a true and honest debate on this very important issue.

In my opinion, the minority Conservative government has turned its back on Canada's communities and cities. It has cut infrastructure programs in spite of all of what it is saying and the cities are far worse off under the present government than they clearly were previously.

The Conservative government has cut $7.5 billion from infrastructure programs launched by the Liberal government designed to address the growing infrastructure deficit. Cities will now have to compete against each other and against large scale highway projects for funding under the government's new building Canada fund.

If large scale projects are approved under the Conservative funding plan, huge amounts of funding will be wiped out from Canada's smaller municipalities and no longer available to them. This misrepresentation, frankly, is a disaster for cities that need infrastructure.

To add insult to injury, the Conservative government claims that its $33 billion infrastructure investment is the largest infrastructure program in Canadian history. Let us dispel that myth this afternoon.

Of the $33 billion program that the minister speaks so proudly of, $18.2 billion of that comes directly from Liberal government programs that it had committed to. Then the government adds everything but the kitchen sink into this program to make it look like a huge fund. However, it is all really just more spin. In actual fact, it has cut $7.5 billion of funding that was critically needed in our cities and communities.

Liberals know that we need a vision to build a strong and prosperous Canada, which means that all three levels of government must plan and work together cooperatively if we expect to go forward.

The Liberal Party recognizes that urban communities play a vital role in Canadian society and it will keep fighting for cities through the newly established urban communities caucus. There is a very strong contingent of Liberal MPs and senators, and they are determined to make sure that Canada's urban communities get back on the national agenda.

I was very honoured last week to be appointed as co-chair of that particular caucus. I intend to work very closely with communities to ensure we have their support and that they know we are there for them.

The minority Conservative government has ignored urban communities from the day it took office and Liberals are going to change that. The quality of life in Canadian cities is clearly deteriorating.

The federal government needs to work with provinces, cities and communities, large and small, to improve living conditions and lay the foundation for a strong Canadian economy. Canada's competitiveness in the global economy is rooted in the strength of its cities, a fact that the government continues to ignore.

The new Liberal urban communities caucus will look at a variety of issues facing Canada's cities, including housing, poverty, transit, child care and infrastructure. It will build on the Liberals' excellent record of working together with urban regions.

In 2005 the Liberal government had renewed the municipal rural infrastructure fund, the Canada strategic infrastructure fund, the border infrastructure fund, and the public transit capital trust. This commitment was worth $1.65 billion annually through to 2014, for a total of $11.5 billion from 2007 to 2014. The 2007 Conservative budget only included $4 billion of the funds that were renewed for these same programs, a cut of $7.5 billion.

Furthermore, the Conservatives have included $11.8 billion in gas tax funding and $5.8 billion of GST rebates to municipalities as part of their $33 billion building Canada fund. Both the GST rebates and the gas tax transfer were Liberal government initiatives.

The $33 billion also includes a substantial amount of money that is not available for cities, including funding for gateway and border crossings and funding for P3 projects. Even the building Canada fund includes funding for the national highway system and other non-municipal projects. Let us be clear here. This is not a huge fund for only our cities and municipalities to be able to draw on.

The physical foundations of Canada's cities and communities are near collapse, according to a report on the state of municipal infrastructure released last month by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. The report, “Danger Ahead: The Coming Collapse of Canada's Municipal Infrastructure”, says that Canada has used up “79 per cent of the service life of its public infrastructure”. It sets the price for eliminating the municipal infrastructure deficit at $123 billion.

What was the government's response to this important report? The finance minister said that the cities should stop “whining” and “do their job”. He showed total disrespect for our municipal leaders when he said that the Government of Canada is “not in the pothole business”.

This is nothing short of disgraceful. Municipal leaders are elected to represent constituents the exact same way that we are. They are looking for help. They are looking for partners as we continue to build Canada.

Canada's Minister of Finance is supposed to be the political minister for the GTA, which is stuck with him, I guess, because the Conservatives could not elect a single MP in Toronto. If they could not do it before, it does not look like they are going to do it now.

When it comes to investing in our cities, the government will not put its money where its mouth is. I remind this House and everyone watching at home that the previous Liberal government had committed $800 million to public transit alone.

Sadly, transit has fallen off the Conservative government's radar screen. The minister said in June that this “national transit strategy is not about new funding”. I asked him in the House “how many buses and rail cars he thinks cities can buy with his empty speeches”. I am still waiting for an answer to that question.

Another failure by the Conservatives is their transit credit, another selective tax measure designed to cut greenhouse gas emissions by increasing public transit ridership in cities. However, a small price decrease in public transit has apparently done nothing to increase ridership. Those who use transit will continue to use it because it is convenient for them.

Those who do not use transit will not suddenly run out and buy a transit pass for a $12 a month tax break. I wrote the book on cities, so I know that this will do nothing to increase public transit. We would have been far better off investing this in the infrastructure that is part of our national transit objective.

The Conservatives can continue their charade of funding for our urban regions. They can continue to re-announce funding commitments that had already been made by the Liberals. Canadians are not going to be fooled by the Conservatives' repeated deceptions.

The government must apologize for abandoning our cities, bring them to the table and work with them to improve the quality of life in Canada's urban regions.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed listening to my hon. colleague from the Liberal side, but it is interesting that what we have at play here is the usual Liberal arithmetic.

As we know, our government has introduced the largest infrastructure investment in well over 50 years. I do not hear that member actually denying that fact, but she refers to some $7 billion that our government supposedly cut from what she referred to as Liberal commitments. As we know, those Liberal commitments were never delivered on. There were promises made, but they were never delivered.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Of course they were. What are you talking about? You don't know what you're talking about.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, since the member for Pickering—Scarborough East has piped up and started heckling, here is what he had to say about investments in municipalities across Canada. There he is heckling. This is what he said back in 1999--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. I will ask the hon. member for Pickering—Scarborough East to allow the member for Abbotsford to ask his question.

I understand that there was some heckling before. I did try to get a grip on that. I would ask all members to allow members to ask their questions.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I hope that you would have shown the same discretion when that member who is now speaking did the exact same thing during my comments. Fair is fair. If the hon. member wants to deal with debate and a matter of substance, I am quite willing to do that, but he ought to recognize that this is a place for respect and he ought to abide by the rules.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Two wrongs do not make a right. Earlier I was asking the hon. member for Abbotsford to allow the hon. member for Pickering—Scarborough East to ask his question. Again, I would ask all members to sit and listen with respect when someone has a question or a comment to make.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Then, Mr. Speaker, let us talk about substance, the Winnipeg Free Press, or actually let us talk about the The Toronto Star, which is no friend of the Conservative government. Here is what it had to say back 1999 in quoting a comment by the member for Pickering—Scarborough East:

It's hard to make the argument that Toronto has great needs when it's doing so extraordinarily well economically. It is a hard argument to make in the weaker regions of the country.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

When was that?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

That was the member for Pickering—Scarborough East in 1999. Suddenly he has changed his tune. I would suggest that when we are talking about $33 billion in infrastructure investment in Canada clearly that is a commitment to building our country. I would ask the member who has just spoken to address that concern.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Where's the question?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. Order. I have a feeling we are going to be in for a pretty raucous question period if it is 1:30 p.m. and we are already having these kinds of problems. I ask all hon. members to sit and listen to the answer that hon. member for York West is about to provide the House.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know why my time is being used up between these two members and their heckling and attacks on each other, but we can all take things out of context. I do not think it is fair when we take shots at each other rather than address the very important issue of our cities and communities.

I am very proud of the work that we did on our cities. I remind members that we have to go back to 1993 when we were elected and had a $42 billion deficit left over from the Mulroney era of government. We had to deal with all of that. Then we had to start reinvesting and bringing our cities to the table. We clearly have a very strong commitment and we had committed a lot of money.

What the Conservatives have done with this $33 billion package is that they have taken seven or eight other programs and thrown them all in under “infrastructure” in their building Canada fund, so it looks like a huge amount of money. But a lot of our cities are going to have compete with each other, so again it is part of the Conservative mantra of dividing cities and dividing our communities to fight for the pot of money that is there.

Again, it is going to be used for national highways. That takes an awful lot of money. It would not take much to drain that fund very quickly. The Conservatives can bundle a bunch of things together and say it is the biggest infrastructure fund they have ever had. We could do the exact same thing.

However, what our cities want to see is investment. They want to be respected. They want to be invited to the table as partners because there is no way that we can build Canada on our own. It is going to take all three levels of government to work in a cooperative way to build a strong, successful Canada.

There is no way that we can do it on our own. Neither can the provinces or the cities. Not to cooperate lacks intelligence. Doing the right thing and the smart thing means that we work together with all three levels of government.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank and recognize the hon. member for York West for her wisdom and her astute presentation and also for the fact that she deserves considerable commendation for the amount of work she has done as a municipal councillor.

When the Liberals decided that the federal government had a role to play in assisting cities, communities, municipalities, towns and villages, it was to include funding for all provinces and territories, and in Ontario, not only our municipalities but also the roads boards.

To completely correct the Conservative member for Abbotsford, as someone who was directly involved in the formation of those programs I was also there on many occasions not only as the past president of the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, but as the mayor of Thunder Bay. I know that the GST rebate, the gas tax and the infrastructure programs as Liberal programs were very much a reality. To say that they did not exist is quite comical. I am sure that municipalities that received funding assistance or transfers from the federal government, of whom there are many if not legion, will have a field day refuting that.

Our goal as municipal people was to ensure that funding was made permanent and dependable. This motion does exactly that. It was meant to give municipalities additional sources of revenue. That is why we no longer call other orders of governments “levels”. Liberals use the term “orders of government” to indicate respect for other elected representatives. The use of the word “level” by the government is another example of regressive, not progressive, thinking.

The Conservatives have rolled the $1.5 billion for 2007-08 and the $1.1 billion for 2008-09 in municipal infrastructure funding into a pseudo-fund or a rebranded building Canada fund. The government advises that municipal infrastructure will be a sunset program, so that next year will be the last year of this program.

So much for predictability and dependability. As municipal governments are wrapping up their current budgets for 2008, not one page of applications has been published, invited or even sent out. How do they plan for the coming construction season?

This government is by far the most incompetent possible, with no understanding whatsoever of municipal financing processes, needs or requirements. If municipalities only hear the announcement, which has been held maybe 20 times or so without one dollar flowing to them, we cannot blame them for feeling scammed by the government yet again.

Do we remember the Conservative promise to remove the 3¢ excise tax on gasoline? Or the removal of the GST once gas hit 85¢ a litre? That has been pulled on the public not once, but twice. As for small communities, and I will use Rainy River as an example, how are they expected to compete with a GTA city? This indicates that the government has totally missed the message from communities for fair funding. How can small communities pay for pre-design or pre-engineering studies if they cannot afford to replace the bridge in the first place?

All these environmental assessments and professional fees must be included in the total project costs, yet the Prime Minister has refused to listen to these very, very reasonable requests. The truth is that the Conservatives have cut infrastructure funding and communities are now worse off. The infrastructure program is $7.5 billion less than what was offered by the previous Liberal government.

To make things even worse for municipalities, they will now have to compete against each other. Last week, when the Federation of Canadian Municipalities was here presenting the data which confirmed that the cut had been $7.5 billion, each and every mayor and councillor here told us they were totally in shock that the government would do this.

Municipalities understand what has been packaged together here and, when it all came together, it was less. This flim-flam gets more deplorable.

By lumping this reduced fund into a catch-all basket, then, if there are large-scale projects, huge amounts of funding will not be forthcoming to communities. This will be disastrous and demonstrates a calculated lack of awareness of municipal requests.

The issue of infrastructure must be categorized by population. We cannot have a simple lumping of it all. The problems of congestion, gridlock and exhaust emissions in a metropolitan area should not have to share a program with smaller, rural towns that have problems with distance, underpopulation and financing. That is why infrastructure is perhaps the most serious problem facing rural Canada and, with these small populations and a reduced property base, rural Canada is having an even more difficult time.

To see $7.5 billion, which could have gone to them, lost altogether, rural Canada is starting to understand that it has been persecuted by the government. We have recommended, as a rural caucus, a policy that would renew and expand the rural infrastructure program, and make it permanent, dependable and achievable for communities of the smallest size. It would put emphasis on water, roads, sewers and bridges.

As someone who has been involved in the municipal field as a councillor, mayor and president of three major municipal organizations, and all of us in the House who have this municipal background, have some sort of camaraderie I believe, so that when organizations, such as the Federation of Canadian Municipalities or the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, come to see us, we relate in a way that they know exactly that we are speaking the same language.

When $7.5 billion is taken from municipalities, they know that they have been shortchanged.

As the programs were built up, they were championed by people such as the hon. member for York West and actually a whole raft of my colleagues. I see a former president of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to my left. We understand this issue intimately and it is something we believe in passionately. Therefore, to see this scam going down is a great affront to everyone who serves in municipal office.

It is astonishing to have all these people come to us asking where the funds are. The minister keeps on making announcements about it but where is the flow? Where are the applications?

Municipal councils across the country are in this perpetual state of uncertainty right now. They have been told that there is an increase, but it is $40 billion to $33 billion, and they are wondering, as they deliberate their capital budgets for the forthcoming year, where the federal promise is. They do not have any paper whatsoever, except for a media announcement. How can they plan for a construction season that will begin either in the spring or summer? How can they allocate their share? How can they approach the provincial government?

When municipalities are faced with this dilemma, it breeds the kind of understanding of just what kind of bumpkins are running the show for the feds. It is amazing that someone would actually get up on a challenge and say that the members here have not been at projects that were delivered by the previous government. It is absolutely astonishing.

When we talk about things like time, it is very important that each hon. member recognize that and recognize the Speaker for his fairness.