Mr. Speaker, before I start I want to say how deeply disturbed I am with the words of the minister and the tack he has taken with respect of the lack of seriousness of the case at the correctional institute which is before us. He talked a little bit like I was watching The Shopping Channel, discussing bedrooms and tables and chairs. I do not think he fully appreciates or understands the seriousness of the matter before us.
The immigration committee, which I am proud a member of, visited these three men who are in dire straits, in dire consequences. They have been on a hunger strike now for over 80 days. The men have lost upwards of 45 to 50 pounds. Their lives are in jeopardy and that is one of the main reasons why the committee chose to travel by bus to Kingston to discuss the situation with these men, to discuss the problems they have with respect to their hunger strike, and to talk to the correctional officers and management of that facility to see how we can break this impasse.
This debate in the House of Commons and before Canadians is part and parcel of doing just that, of breaking the impasse. It is to try to save the lives of three men and at the same time try to adjust the justice system in Canada.
If I break down the issue and the motion before us, two basic issues come to light. One of the issues that is not being specifically discussed at the Kingston correctional holding facility is the issue of fairness of the security certificates. These three men are not dealing with the issue of the security certificates per se, they are dealing with the conditions they are being held in.
Parliament and Canadians want us to open up this debate in order to talk about some things of substance. The substantive issue is the fairness of the security certificates and how it balances the rights of the individual with the safety of the collective society.
We have had these men incarcerated for six and a half years, two years of which some of these men were held in solitary confinement. The immigration committee visited Kingston last October and actually went into the cells that some of these men were held in solitary confinement and, Mr. Speaker, you would not want to spend five minutes in solitary confinement in the cells that we witnessed, let alone two years.
The question is one of balancing the civil liberties of individuals and our human rights versus the safety of Canadians. These men have been held for six and a half years without being charged of any criminal offence, nor have they been convicted of any crimes.
The third important issue to remember is that they are being held indefinitely without knowing the evidence the government may or may not have on them. So they are not, nor are their lawyers, privy to the qualitative nature or the quantitative nature of the evidence against them, yet they are being held indefinitely in this institution.
We can argue if our system is fair and just when we have a law on the books that allows the minister to incarcerate three individuals for six and a half years without them being charged of any offence, without knowing any of the evidence against them. We can make that system much better and I do not know why the Conservative government or the minister is dragging their heels on this. Perhaps it is to garner favour with the Bush administration and to continue to champion against human rights and against Canadians. But the system can be made better.
The immigration committee has put recommendations out there. We have heard witnesses. One of them is to put a special prosecutor in place so that there is a mechanism by which those who have been accused can actually see and test the evidence against them. Right now there is no ability for these three men to test the evidence against them. I would call on the minister to initiate changes, to make the system better, and to make it safer for Canadians and balance the rights of individuals.
I will speak more to the point on the issue before us today relating to the conditions of the detainees. We were there and they are in dire straits. They have a number of grievances they have filed with the process.
The difficulty that they have, though, is that they are caught in between. They are not criminals on the one hand. They are being held through the immigration process as detainees. They are not criminals. They are detainees and because of that Canada has to deal with them in a different way.
We have to decide, are we going to hold them in maximum security, minimum security or medium security? The question right now is: How is this process managed? I would say that the minister is managing it irresponsibly because he is not in tune to the issues of the day and the problems that these men have.
I could list a few of the problems. They are in the motion here before us today. One problem is that the detainees are not allowed to have close family visits. Another one is that they are not allowed to have access to the canteen facilities. A third problem is that they are subject to daily head counts. My goodness, there are three of them in this cell. Any guard or any person going in there can count, “one, two, three” and realize that they are there. Yet, they are subject to daily head counts. Another grievance is that they are not being allowed to practise their religious beliefs. It goes on and on.
When I spoke to these three men I said that I did not want to try and deal with each one of their grievances one at a time. They have a list of 20 to 25 grievances. I believe a better approach is to take a systemic solution to what we have here. The problem we have is that there is no grievance mechanism for these men to deal with. The same shoe is on the management and staff there. They are used to maximum security penitentiaries where they deal with things one way. This is a new situation that requires new policies and procedures.
A new policy and procedure that we have put forward to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration is that an ombudsman be put in place to hear the grievances of these three men and deal with the issues one at a time as they come up. It is a common sense solution to a problem.
There are three men that are on a hunger strike right now because they cannot exercise their religious freedom, visit with their families, and have the other rights and privileges that normal prisoners who have been charged with crimes are allowed. We have a situation here that is untenable. We have to work as parliamentarians in the House of Commons to deal specifically with the solutions that are at hand.
The motion before the House deals with that solution. I would urge members from all parties to vote in favour of this motion and deal with the solutions to this problem.