Debates of April 24th, 2007

Opposition Motion—Greenhouse Gas Reduction Targets

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in budget 2005 a climate emissions reductions agency was established with a mandate to stimulate cost effective reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in Canada, and part of it was to establish a carbon trade system and set up an exchange for GHGs.

The Conservative government scrapped this program altogether, in addition to a number of other initiatives. The member said that in 13 years we did nothing. How can he justify such a statement when everything that was done by the Liberal government was cancelled by the Conservative government?

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

All the initiatives taken by the Liberals were a clear step backwards, since we are now 35% over the projected emissions. It is clear why we cancelled them. The question is obvious, and to ask the question is to answer it.

Nine billion dollars have been announced for ecoenergy and other initiatives. Just yesterday we announced a $200 million fund to help set up biofuel plants. This has never been seen before because it is something tangible. It is not hot air, not botched plans like we saw for 13 years. It does not make sense to sign a protocol without knowing where we are headed. Of course we are presenting a targeted program. We have to play catch up, as the minister said. He is very committed to implementing it and he will give it his all because we have to catch up and we want things to work.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member did not quite finish his speech. He was going to talk about the exchange, I believe, and I want to give him an opportunity to tell me what he was going to say about that.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was saying in my speech that the minister is currently studying the kind of trading that is taking place. We want to see what has been positive and where there has been problems. The clock is ticking. We want the plan to be implemented in a logical fashion within a coherent and effective system.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate on greenhouse gas emissions and on the measures taken by the Government of Canada to reduce these emissions and to improve air quality in our country.

Energy and the production of energy have always been a pillar of development in our country. It is part of the reality of our geography, our lifestyle and our economy. We rely on energy for almost everything we do. It is an issue and a challenge that was ignored for too long under the previous government.

We had to act and that is exactly what the new Government of Canada did. We went beyond the Liberal rhetoric on the environment and took drastic measures. After 13 long years of inaction and increasing greenhouse gas emissions under the Liberal government, we have come to the point where we are taking action to reduce emissions through decisive measures.

In January of this year, the Minister of Natural Resources announced the Government of Canada's ecoENERGY Initiatives. These initiatives, which will be funded to the tune of $2 billion, are part of the government's integrated approach to reduce air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions.

The ecoenergy efficiency initiatives are threefold: the ecoenergy efficiency initiative, an investment of $340 million aimed at promoting more intelligent use of energy; the ecoenergy technology initiative, an investment of $200 million for energy sciences and technology; and the ecoenergy renewable initiative, an investment of $1.5 billion designed to increase the supply of renewable energy in Canada.

Together, these initiatives help to provide support for research and the development of ways of cleaning up our traditional energy sources, for implementation of solutions for reducing the demand for energy, and for greater use of clean, renewable energy to meet the country’s energy consumption needs.

I wish to assure the House that these initiatives are not simply plans on paper. We have taken concrete action. We have rolled up our sleeves and got down to work.

At the beginning of the month, we announced the details of the Government of Canada's ecoenergy retrofit initiative. By providing grants of up to $5,000, this program really encourages Canadians to retrofit their houses in order to make them more energy efficient. Furthermore, out of every program dollar, 90¢ will go directly towards renovations.

Under the ecoenergy retrofit initiative, 35,000 homeowners will receive grants. This is many more than the average of 25,000 owners under the old program. Also, since 90¢ out of every dollar will go directly to renovations, the average grant given to owners will be close to $1,110, instead of the $800 under the old program. A larger proportion of the money will go directly to homeowners rather than program administration.

Small- and medium-sized businesses, institutions and industrial organizations will also be able to take advantage of this program with grants of up to $50,000 designed to offset the cost of renovations made to increase energy efficiency.

Obviously this is progress not only for home and business owners, but for all Canadians. Houses and buildings are responsible for close to 30% of greenhouse gas emissions. We are all winners when they become more energy efficient.

Given our determination to really limit greenhouse gas emissions, we are investing not only in incentives to promote energy-efficient renovations, but also in the ecoenergy for renewable power program, which will increase the supply of clean electricity from renewable sources, such as wind, biomass and low-impact hydroelectricity, by 4,000 megawatts. This should be enough to supply about one million homes.

We will also invest over $35 million in the ecoENERGY for Renewable Heat program for homes and businesses. This funding will help switching to renewable energy technologies for space heating and cooling, and also for water heating.

We have also taken important measures in research and technology. As I already mentioned, under our ecoENERGY initiative for technology, $200 million will be allocated to energy science and technology. This program will also be supported by a number of initiatives mentioned in the 2007 budget, including a $500 million investment in Sustainable Development Technology Canada.

I will give an example of government science and technology at work. NRCan scientists have developed an entirely new approach in commercial refrigeration by working in cooperation with Loblaws and other partners in Repentigny, Quebec, and in Ottawa, Ontario. They showed how their system works. This system could revolutionize the quick frozen food section in groceries, with a 75% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions and a 30% reduction in energy use.

As we all know, it is not just using energy, but also producing it that contributes to the creation of environmental waste. This is why managing waste and tar sand residues is a major environmental issue. Natural Resources Canada has teamed up with the industry, the University of Alberta and the Government of Alberta to create a new research facility on tar sand residues. Its objective is to find new solutions to manage this environmental waste.

Here is another example of measures taken under the ecoENERGY program: Shell Canada is using the innovative froth treatment technology developed by CTEC in Devon, for its $1 billion oil sands production. The company was able to go directly from a laboratory demonstration project to a fully operational production facility at the Fort McMurray tar sands complex.

Our ecoENERGY initiatives provide concrete solutions. As the Minister of Natural Resources said:

Canada is an emerging energy superpower, but energy production and use are the source of most of our air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. Our challenge is to be a clean energy superpower and our ecoENERGY Initiatives are designed to meet this challenge.

We are meeting this challenge and we are striving to honour the environmental commitments we made. We are taking the necessary action and working seriously. We urge Canadians to participate in our programs. Through these initiatives, government, businesses, universities and all Canadians can make Canada a leader in energy efficiency.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the budget is a fee bate program for high efficiency automobiles. The member probably is aware that one company, Toyota, gets over $45 million, or three-quarters of all these rebates, on one of it models, the Yaris, which is an entry level car.

It is interesting to note that the Yaris is a conventional gas automobile. It does not include any of the new technologies that would help to provide a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, the only way the Yaris can get so much is because it does not have the safety features of other comparable entry level cars, which includes air bags, steel reinforcement, et cetera.

This is a disproportionate benefit to one company. It will hurt the other producers of entry level cars because the $1,000 rebate is more than the dealer can make on the sale of a comparable car.

Why has the Conservative government decided to allow an imported automobile to get so much of the rebate program for totally the wrong purposes?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

He has brought up a very interesting point. If all Canadians used a low fuel consumption vehicle, we would decrease greenhouse gas emissions overall, and it would be very good for all of Canada.

I thank my colleague for putting forward this idea, and I hope that all Canadians will take this initiative in the near future.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to my colleague's dissertation. I have heard many of them from the Conservative Party.

It seems to me that some people are leaders in history, some people are led by history and others are dragged kicking and screaming by it, which seems to be the policy position of the Conservative Party right now.

When we saw the Conservative-Reform Party initially it said that there was no such thing as greenhouse gases. This was, in the words of the Prime Minister, a “socialist” plot to suck money out of Alberta.

Then we saw the Conservative-Reform Party became the home of every flat earth theory going on the environment. It was sunspots. It was El Niño It was the flatulence of the dinosaurs that changed the heat in the last millennium.

Then, in this new Parliament, we have a minister who has said that if we do anything we will shut down every plane, train and automobile and turn out all the lights, so we cannot do anything.

That did not work either.

Then the Conservatives had Bill C-30, although that has been shelved. Now they are telling us not to worry. They are telling us that they will actually do something but we have to give them more time.

I am wondering when they are actually going to get serious, just stop protecting the oil patch and get down to doing what Canadians are asking for, which is to take action on greenhouse gases now.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I find my colleague's question very interesting. In the history of Canada, each time there have been major initiatives, or big changes that have been sources of pride for our country, they have come under a Conservative government. The next big initiative we must launch is the environmental one.

I can assure the House that this new task is very important to our government and to all my colleagues, and, unlike all the other parties, we will succeed in bringing about a healthy environment with a strong economy, within a better Canada.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, am surprised to hear the hon. member for Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière discuss all the various ecoENERGY initiatives, but not the motion brought before the House today. I thought that he was rising to speak on the motion, but that is not what he did.

Nevertheless, to use his diversion topic, since he did not stick to the motion, how does the hon. member explain that the new program, which is basically the old ecoENERGY program with improvements, will put 90¢ out of every dollar toward retrofit, while 10¢ goes to administration anyway and that another 40¢ has to be spent on pre- and post-retrofit assessments? Where will he find the money to pay for assessing the work that has been done and the work that remains to be done?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague's question is very valid.

In our new program, the initial and final work assessments will be at the owners' expense. We want the maximum amount, or 90¢ out of every dollar, to go directly to owners, as opposed to 60¢ or 65¢ under the previous government.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Berthier—Maskinongé.

I would like to begin by congratulating the hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie for bringing this very important motion before the House for debate. It is very important not just for the moment, or for the year to come, but for all the generations yet to come. Let us think about where we have come from as far as the environment is concerned.

Some twenty years ago, a few ecologists were sounding the alarm, but they were heeded by very few. With time, we have come to realize that they were right. In recent months we have had definitive confirmation that there is a major scientific problem. Even the Conservative government has been forced to admit it to some extent. The Minister of the Environment claimed to be surprised at these findings when they were announced at the international conference he was attending. Now one would expect some action from the government. The Bloc can take pride in its motion today, because it is acting as the true messenger for Quebeckers on this issue.

Quebeckers decided to take the green path a long time ago. They took concrete actions and have a noteworthy record of accomplishments in this area. Now, however, environmental action must be global if results are to be achieved. One of the worst threats to this is the immobility of governments that are unwilling to move forward and overly sensitive to pressure from lobbies such as the oil patch.

Returning to the motion presented, it reads: That the House—and therefore all the representatives of the population who are here—call on the government to set absolute greenhouse gas reduction targets as soon as possible—

What are the greenhouse gases? Six of them are covered by Kyoto. They include: CO₂, the result of the combustion of fossil fuels and of deforestation—petroleum, among other things, is a fossil fuel; methane, which is produced by cattle farming, rice cultivation, domestic waste landfills, and oil and gas operations; nitrous oxide comes from nitrogen fertilizer use as well as certain chemical processes. Pollution created by human beings leads to major changes to the living conditions on this planet.

This has been recognized on a global scale. Only a few countries are still denying this reality. Unfortunately, Canada, which should be at the forefront in several areas, has a retrograde attitude right now that is doing a lot of damage, including to the environment. Most members here have children or grandchildren. They should be very aware of the fact that this is not a short-term partisan decision; it is a decision that will have an impact on every aspect of these people's lives.

On the government side, a lot of energy is being invested into the military to buy equipment and to go to Afghanistan to solve the problems there. If we invested in the environment only a small fraction of the energy invested in the military, not one single member would vote against this motion today. Everybody would support it. It is just as urgent as the issue of world peace and security.

The motion is asking the House to call on the government to set absolute targets. What does that mean? When we have a problem with energy consumption, we can decide to take off a percentage; for example, we can impose a 10% reduction from the current level. That does not take account of future increases in expenditures. In that case, we will not achieve the desired result. We can convince ourselves that we did our best and tell ourselves, in 10 years, that we have met our targets. However, we will not have met them because of the increase in consumption.

This is not a strictly partisan issue that has its pros and cons. The real impact is that our planet will be even sicker if we do not take action, if the Conservative government does not do its share of the work and does not support the measures that all Quebeckers and Canadians are calling for. A vast majority of the population wants us to shoulder our responsibilities. It wants us to move forward, to make proposals like the one before us today and to get tangible results.

I am certain that there is a consensus among the population that is calling on politicians to make adjustments. The problem has been identified. It has been brought forward and concrete steps can be taken. People are waiting for politicians to take those steps and that is what the Bloc Québécois is doing today by presenting this motion. We look for generous support from this House for this motion not only because it is a good idea for the next week, but because it is an essential approach for the future of our planet and of our children. In addition, we have finally succeeded in making a link between the environment and economic development. That is one of the problems of this government.

The Prime Minister continues to make a distinction between economic development and environmental quality of life. According to him, these are two separate things but for sustainable development they must be united. We can no longer move forward with economic development without considering the effects on the environment. We must ensure that our development takes both realities into account, which is something that has been done in the past.

The facts are there before us. The results of not taking both realities into account are clear to see. Perhaps, we were not sufficiently aware, perhaps, we did not have the necessary scientific tools, but today we have them and we can achieve significant results.

It is very paradoxical. This Conservative government —which claims to be close to business and economic leaders— increasingly closes its eyes to the fantastic benefits that could result from creating as soon as possible a carbon exchange in Montreal. In fact, a carbon exchange market would stimulate economic activity in a context of sustainable development. That would make it possible to recognize the special effort made by part of the country, or by the whole country and to reward those who have chosen to invest in the environment with a return on their investment.

For example, if we invested in polluting industries, it would be perfectly normal to have to pay the price; and if we invested in a better quality of the environment, that should pay us a return.

This is not a pious wish. It is what is contained in the agreements. It is what people want to see implemented, and it already exists in Europe. At present, we have our world upside down. Economic groups in Quebec are calling on the Conservative government to press ahead with this measure. Yet, the government is still not moving.

I invite the Prime Minister and the Conservatives to put aside their ideological approach and to recognize, as everyone else does, that this is a major problem. It is perhaps the most important problem in the world today. We have a responsibility. Canadian action alone will not solve this issue. Action is needed everywhere in the world.

Some 40 or 50 years ago, Mr. Pearson came up with a new idea for providing assistance in peaceful military operations. Today, we need this kind of new thinking for the environment.

If someone were to go into a classroom in Quebec or Canada and ask youngsters six, seven, eight or ten years old what is important to them and what they want from their elected officials and politicians insofar as the environment is concerned, the answer will assuredly be what is in the motion. They may not use the same words, but the end result would be. The Kyoto protocol is a bit of a warm-up to help us tackle the problem and deal with it. So far, the government has refused to admit there is a problem. We need to advance to the next stage as soon as possible. We need to make progress and set things up. If we fail, history will be our judge. It will view us as those who failed to take action in time. That is the challenge the people want their elected officials to tackle. We only need to look at the poll results: people are very concerned about the environment.

There is a feeling now that the government is not making any progress. People are trying to find the reasons and the causes. One would think that a minority government would be particularly sensitive. However, the reality about the environment is clearly very different from one end of Canada to the other.

Quebec has done its part and succeeded in ensuring that its increase in greenhouse gases is much less. It also developed its hydroelectricity, which helps a lot. However, other people and groups in Canada developed different resources that are highly polluting. They need to find a solution. And it is not maximum development with an eye to making as much money as possible with no consideration for the environment.

The provinces or parts of Canada that invested in a quality environment should not have to pay the price for years on end. That is the purpose of this motion.

When members rise to vote in the House, they should think of their children and grandchildren and think of the message they will be sending to history if they refuse to recognize the need to comply with the Kyoto protocol. We need to move so that in 20 years time people remember that we got the job done and achieved results that improved the environment for the entire planet.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, before I ask my hon. friend a question, I would like to point out that on my last trip to Victoria , being the environmentally conscientious person I am, I did rent a Toyota Yaris and it had an air bag, as opposed to the windbags we find in other places. I am not talking about my friend from the Bloc because he raised some very interesting points. We do agree that there is a problem and something needs to be done.

He talked about economic development taking into account environmental impacts. That is obviously very important, but he stretched it to the point where there is perhaps a lack of balance.

When we look at things we are doing for the environment which are necessary, should we also be taking into account the impact it is going to have on the economy? Should there be a bit of a balance there of some kind, or is the environmental impact the only thing that matters, regardless of the economic impact on his way of life, my children's way of life and my grandchildren's way of life?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

This is exactly when it becomes important. We are in a situation where economic and environmental benefits converge, if we can only go forward with the idea of a carbon exchange. There are people who, initially, were not really front-line environmentalists. Corporations like Alcan and other businesses throughout Quebec told the Minister of the Environment that they were disappointed with his plan and wanted him to go forward with more measures. We must not separate the economy and the environment. We must have sustainable development. Sustainable development is done in an environmentally desirable way over the long term. Some important findings have been made clear here today. Very important tax benefits were provided to develop the tar sands, for example. Next year, this tax expenditure will cost the government about $300 million. On the other side, we need to find a way to make sure this money is used wisely. We should have strings attached and make sure there is a market so that those who pollute less get the benefits and those who pollute more pay the price.

With the present approach of the Conservative government, we will not be able to meet the goals we want to reach and the goals we need to reach for the future of this planet, for the future of Quebec, and the future of Canada.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for his zeal. I just want to get us back on the topic, which is the motion which states:

That the House call on the government to set fixed greenhouse gas reduction targets as soon as possible so as to meet the objectives of the Kyoto Protocol, a prerequisite for the establishment, as expeditiously as possible, of a carbon exchange in Montréal.

We agree with that.

The emissions in Canada are 35% above Kyoto targets. We have heard from the Liberal members that they were just about ready to do something before they got kicked out. For 13 years they were just about ready to do something. What we have heard from them is they support a $100 billion tax increase to Canadians and the industry.

Does the member support that? Does he support the Liberal plan to send billions of dollars outside of Canada to buy hot air credits?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we must use all the tools set out in the Kyoto protocol to attain the desired results. We must guarantee results but what is needed first is the political will on the part of the government to move forward. I repeat, if the political will of the current government to act on environmental matters were as strong as its will to fight in Afghanistan, fear not, we would find the money to reach that target. However, the quality of life of here at home for Quebeckers and Canadians is just as important and it is vital that we move in that direction.

An extraordinary tool, the carbon exchange, has been devised to ensure that we have an economic interest in achieving these targets.

I am very pleased that my colleague has said he agrees with the wording of the motion. I hope, I truly hope, that he will vote in favour of it so that we will have a clear indication of intent. I hope that the government will vote in favour of this motion. Then we shall see if we can meet the expectations of our people.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak on this Bloc Québécois opposition day. There are two important components to our motion today.

The aim of the first is to apply the principle of polluter pays by establishing absolute greenhouse gas reduction targets in keeping with the objectives of the Kyoto protocol while allowing Quebec and the provinces that so desire to take a territorial approach. The second component of our motion calls on the federal government to establish a carbon exchange as soon as possible, in Montreal.

However, as our motion indicates, no carbon exchange can be created without absolute greenhouse gas reduction targets. The extent of the reduction is clear. What we in the Bloc want and the Quebec National Assembly unanimously wants is a 6% reduction based on the year 1990.

The matter we are discussing today concerns doubtless one of the greatest challenges facing our planet and the men, women and children living on this earth. I refer obviously to climate change resulting from greenhouse gases.

Global warming has been confirmed by many scientific reports, including those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change drafted by over 600 climatologists. There is no longer any dissension in the scientific community. The only disagreement is what we meet here in the House, coming from the Conservative Party.

Human activity and, more particularly, the greenhouse gases it produces are the primary cause of global warming. Thus, with the scientific studies confirming and now identifying the devastating effects of global warming, it becomes clear that investing in the fight against climate change is essential in both human and economic terms. It is absolutely vital that this government, in this House, take swift action in this regard.

The recent report by the former chief economist of the World Bank recommended that each country invest—right now—up to 1% of its GDP in fighting climate deregulation, in order to avoid future economic losses of up to 20% more than the current cost of reversing the trend caused by greenhouse gases. So there are savings to be made now, and they are vital. They are savings in both financial and human terms.

In response to this recommendation, the government last week presented a study aimed not only at discrediting the Kyoto protocol—defended by the principal political and economic players in Quebec—but also to ensure the implementation of the Conservative government's political agenda. It is closely tied to the interests and needs of the rich petroleum companies in the West.

This so-called study, presented by the Minister of the Environment, is both irresponsible and biased because it gives no consideration whatsoever to the consequences of failing to honour the Kyoto protocol.

The cost must be reckoned not only in billions of dollars, but also in loss of biodiversity, millions of refugees and more frequent extreme weather events. The IPCC's latest report, released in February 2007, indicated that other consequences include more frequent droughts, torrential rains, rising sea levels, more frequent heat waves and violent cyclones. We are already seeing this in many places around the world.

In addition to ignoring the consequences of failing to comply with the Kyoto protocol, the Conservative government's study ignores the establishment of a carbon exchange that costs less and allows more flexibility for businesses. This is the option the European Union chose to fight climate change because this system will enable the EU to achieve the Kyoto targets at a cost of less than 0.1% of its GDP.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear what the Conservatives think of the Kyoto protocol.

Although many European countries have decided to take meaningful action against greenhouse gases and are in a position to achieve the Kyoto protocol targets, Canada has not yet come up with a precise, detailed plan. There have been delays and doubts, and while some energy targets and programs to reduce energy consumption and save energy have been implemented, nobody wants to implement the protocol. They just want to protect oil companies in Alberta.

Both the Liberals and the Conservatives have refused to take concrete, decisive action for more than five years now. As if this awful mess were not enough, the Conservative government has the nerve to submit a biased report that I would describe as fearmongering, whose only goal is to discredit Kyoto and protect western oil companies who are largely responsible for Canada's rising greenhouse gas emissions.

Clearly, the government does not want to enforce the polluter-pay principle because it would rather protect its friends, the oil companies. It is unfortunate that our Conservative allies from Quebec chose not to vigorously defend the unanimous decisions concerning Kyoto made by the people of Quebec. As we know, Quebec has implemented a greenhouse gas reduction program among the best in Canada. These Quebeckers who have been elected under the Conservative Party banner are not representing in any way the interests of their fellow Quebeckers, as evidenced by the fact that they are not standing up for Kyoto. Does that really come as a surprise? We will recall that, back in 2002, the current Prime Minister called the Kyoto protocol a socialist scheme and said that implementing it would cripple the oil and gas industry.

Enough. Like millions of Quebeckers and Canadians, we reject this campaign of fear orchestrated by this Conservative government. The reason why we presented this motion is because implementing the Kyoto protocol is obviously a necessity for humanity. We also believe that implementing Kyoto would give Quebec a decisive economic advantage. Oil and gas, and petroleum products in particular, are responsible for the vast majority of greenhouse gas emissions in Quebec and Canada.

Petroleum makes Quebec poorer, and it will keep making us poorer and poorer as prices continue to rise in the future. In 2006, Canada's crude oil and natural gas exports totalled more than $70 billion. That is an 80% increase since 2001.

Every increase in the consumption and price of oil enriches Canada and improves its trade balance. In Quebec, quite the opposite holds true.

It is important to remember that the increase in oil prices was enough to send Quebec into a trade deficit.

Therefore we believe that it is urgent for Quebec to drastically reduce its dependency on oil in order to stimulate our economy and to fight climate change.

Respecting the Kyoto protocol by imposing absolute targets and creating a carbon exchange will be powerful incentives for attaining this objective.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to sit here and listen to the fearmongering and so on.

The Minister of the Environment, through the private member's bill presented by the Liberals, was asked what the cost would be of meeting our Kyoto targets immediately. He did exactly what he was asked to do. They may not like the answer but the fact is that it actually will have some economic cost. It was not just done by the economists within the government departments. It was also reviewed and verified by independent economists.

We knew that if the bill were to become law that there would be devastating economic issues to be dealt with. However, that does not mean that we do not believe we should deal with our Kyoto targets and that we do not believe that something needs to be done about greenhouse gases.

We have been working on that. We can look at ecotrusts, ecotransport, ecoenergy and what we did on the transit system. We put $4.5 billion in the budget that, hopefully, the House will pass. We have been spending money and putting programs together to actually take action.

In the next number of weeks, the minister will be announcing the hard targets that we are expecting. We have been moving on this side of the House and we have been taking action. For members to pretend that we are not and to say that we are fearmongering, I must say that being honest with Canadians is not fearmongering. I think Canadians expect an approach that is appropriate from their government.

If there is a carbon exchange, would the member still support it if it were not in Montreal?

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, in terms of the economy, I believe that the hon. member is just as knowledgeable about it as we are. He has read the report by Mr. Stern, formerly of the World Bank, who said that if every country invested 1% of GDP to decrease greenhouse gases, we would realize savings in the short term as opposed to incurring much higher costs—20 times higher—that we would have to pay in future.

I believe we will have to invest $7.5 billion if we do not take immediate action to decrease greenhouse gases. Future generations and our economy as a whole will be affected. In addition to the impact on the economy, there will be the human cost. There will be many deaths. There will be loss of life among our children. Populations will be displaced because of inaction.

In reply to my colleague's question, the current proposal states that the exchange will be established in Montreal. Why not in Montreal? We are masters of—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my colleague opposite who questioned the Bloc Québécois member, and who continues, despite everything, to engage in fearmongering with respect to the costs of implementing Kyoto.

What we find regrettable here in this House is that the government has not included all the costs associated with inaction.

If the government had gone to the trouble of including the health costs associated with inaction, if it had considered the environmental costs, it would know that the basic premises of this study and this economic analysis are biased, far-fetched and based on unacceptable apocalyptic scenarios.

Instead of developing a strategy and campaign of fear to oppose those who support Kyoto, could the government not have developed a climate change strategy aimed at respecting the Kyoto protocol? The government has wasted the time of this House with its inaction.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague, the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, for his excellent question.

I think there are possibilities. Instead of reacting to the greenhouse gas phenomenon and denying that greenhouse gas reduction is a priority, we should act in the interest of the Kyoto protocol. We should be more proactive. We should go ahead with new technologies to move towards green energy sources.

In Quebec, we have developed wind energy. We can export other forms of technology throughout the world, because the whole planet will be facing the same problems. We could be more proactive and respond to this situation.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River, Agriculture and Agri-food; the hon. member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, Manufacturing Industry.