House of Commons Hansard #146 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-22.

Topics

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10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

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10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

All those opposed will please say nay.

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10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

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NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

The recorded division on the amendment to Motion No. 4 stands deferred. The recorded division will also apply to the amendments to Motions Nos. 5 to 8.

The question is on the amendment to Motion No. 9. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment?

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10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

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NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

All those in favour of the amendment will please say yea.

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10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

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10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

All those opposed will please say nay.

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10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

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10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

The recorded division on the amendment to Motion No. 9 stands deferred. The recorded division will also apply to the amendments to Motions Nos. 10 to 16.

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded divisions at report stage of Bill C-10.

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

The recorded divisions at report stage of Bill C-10 stand deferred until Monday, May 14, after government orders.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-22, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (age of protection) and to make consequential amendments to the Criminal Records Act, as reported with amendment from the committee.

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10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

There being no motions at report stage on this bill, the House will now proceed, without debate, to the putting of the question of the motion to concur in the bill at report stage.

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Conservative

Greg Thompson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

moved that the bill be concurred in at report stage.

(Motion agreed to)

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NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

When shall the bill be read the third time? By leave now?

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Some hon. members

Agreed.

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Conservative

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10:45 a.m.

Fundy Royal New Brunswick

Conservative

Rob Moore ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to speak to Bill C-22, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (age of protection) and to make consequential amendments to the Criminal Records Act.

On June 22, 2006, the government answered the calls of millions of Canadians, of victims groups, of the police, and of those who seek to protect our young people. We did this by introducing Bill C-22 and propose to raise the age of consent to sexual activity from 14 to 16, and in doing so, to finally and clearly prohibit adults from sexually exploiting 14 and 15 year olds.

The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights heard from numerous witnesses during its review of Bill C-22. Not surprisingly, witnesses expressed support for the government's objective to better protect young people against adult sexual predators.

Many witnesses also supported Bill C-22's proposed response to achieve this objective, but there were as well some misunderstandings as to what Bill C-22 actually proposes, and I would like to address exactly what Bill C-22 does and does not do.

The government's objective with Bill C-22 has always been very clear. It is to protect 14 and 15 year olds against adult sexual predators.

Bill C-22 does this by proposing a close in age exemption for 14 and 15 year olds. Under this proposed exemption 14 and 15 year olds can still consent to sexual activity with another person, providing that the other person is less than five years older and the relationship does not involve authority, trust, dependency, and is not otherwise exploitative of the young person.

Bill C-22 does not criminalize 14 and 15 year olds from engaging in consensual activity with other teenagers, but it does very definitively and very clearly prohibit any adult who is five years or more older than 14 or 15 year olds from engaging in any sexual activity with that young person.

Of course, Bill C-22 maintains 18 years as the age of protection where the sexual activity involves prostitution, pornography or it occurs with a relationship of trust, authority, dependency or one that is otherwise exploitative of the young person.

Bill C-22 also recognizes that when the new age of protection comes into force, there may be some 14 and 15 year olds who are already married to a partner who is more than five years older than they are or who are already in an established common law relationship with such a partner, so the bill, as introduced, proposes a one time limited or transitional exception to protect these relationships.

It would protect existing marriages. It would also protect existing common law relationships where the 14 or 15 year olds and an older partner had resided in a conjugal relationship for a period of at least one year or for a shorter period if there was a child born or expected of the relationship and again, if the relationship was not otherwise exploitative of the young person.

Bill C-22 will still allow 14 or 15 year olds to marry a partner in provinces where that is allowed if that partner is less than five years older, where that couple satisfies the applicable provincial or territorial solemnization of marriage requirements after Bill C-22 comes into effect. As introduced, however, it would not have allowed such a relationship to be established after Bill C-22 came into effect where the partner was older by five years or more.

For example, as introduced, Bill C-22 would not allow a 25 year old or a 50 year old to marry a youth that was 14 or 15 years old because this is contrary to what Bill C-22 is all about. It is about criminalizing any adult, who is five years or more older than a 14 or 15 year old, from engaging in a sexual relationship with that young person.

Similarly, Bill C-22 did not, as introduced, and does not, as amended, propose a permanent exemption for common law relationships. By definition, such a relationship requires conjugal cohabitation of at least one year or a child born or expected of that relationship, conduct which would, as a result of Bill C-22 passing, now be a sexual assault against that young person.

However, Bill C-22 was amended by the opposition during the justice committee's clause by clause review to make the proposed transitional marriage exemption permanent.

As a result, Bill C-22 would now allow a 25 or even a 50 year old to marry a 14 or 15 year old where such a marriage is permitted under provincial and territorial solemnization of marriage laws.

Such a marriage would not be allowed at all in three jurisdictions and in the remaining jurisdictions, it would only be permissible upon prior judicial or ministerial approval, and that in four of these jurisdictions only if the young girl was pregnant. In other words, after the commission of what would now be a sexual assault under Bill C-22. The government did not support this amendment because on its face it would condone a sexual relationship that Bill C-22 condemns.

Statistics indicate that the number of youth 15 years old, for example, who are married are very few and exceptional. Nonetheless, in those jurisdictions, where it is possible for a person under the criminal age of protection to marry, presumably the court or minister who is asked to approve of such a marriage will indeed be guided by the Criminal Code, as amended by Bill C-22, in determining whether the marriage of a 14 or 15 year old to a partner who is five years or more older should be approved.

The government's preference would have been to have Bill C-22 supported as introduced. There are however processes in place at the provincial and territorial level to enable the clear objective and intent of Bill C-22's reforms to be realized in practice.

Bill C-22's reforms are long overdue and we do not want to further delay their enactment. In fact, over the past many years victims groups and the police organizations have called for Parliament to act and for too long, Parliament denied that. There are many in the House and many in Canada who are very pleased that we are now taking a step to protect our young people from adult sexual predators.

We have heard repeatedly from law enforcement that 14 and 15 year olds are at a greater risk of being sexually exploited, especially through what is referred to as Internet luring. Parents and teachers know that teenagers are big users of the Internet in chat rooms. Indeed, kids know more about these new technologies than most of us; that is, except for Internet predators.

It was quite alarming to hear testimony at the justice committee about the savvy that these Internet predators have, the determination they have, and the network they have to go after and exploit what was then our too young age of consent in Canada. We even heard testimony of predators from other jurisdictions, other countries even, where their age of consent is higher, specifically targeting Canadian young people, so that they could have a relationship with a 14 year old; some of these people being in their 40s and 50s.

The relative ease of use and the perceived anonymity of the Internet has attracted such predators to this medium as a preferred way to lure youth. They prey upon the vulnerabilities of young people. They do so by building a relationship of trust and then betray that trust when they seek to sexually exploit them.

Bill C-22 will provide much needed added protection to 14 and 15 year olds against such predatory exploitative behaviour. Bill C-22 is both needed and supported and now is the time to support its expeditious passage.

I will take this time to acknowledge many in the House and many in my party who over the years have consistently advocated raising the age of consent to protect young people who heeded the calls of victims groups, of child exploitation experts, and of the police when they were saying over and over that Canada had become a destination for people seeking to sexually exploit young people.

I am proud of their efforts to see the age of consent raised and I am proud of the government's efforts for bringing forward this much needed legislation.

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10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for outlining the provisions of the bill. This matter has been dealt with by the House on other occasions. I believe there were two private members' items. As I understand it, and perhaps the member would care to confirm it, there is a difference in this bill, in that it makes appropriate provisions for close in age exemptions. I wonder if the member would simply confirm that and clarify for the House specifically what that means.

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10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-22 is designed for what people have been calling for years, which is that we not criminalize activity between young people of a similar age but that we protect our young people against adult sexual predators.

We have all heard the stories and have read them in newspapers of individuals who, in their own countries the age of consent might be 16 years, come to Canada to have relationships with 14 year olds. They develop the relationships over the Internet and then come here to have sexual activity with 14 year olds.

We heard at committee of a young person who may be in a relationship with someone much older, perhaps a 14 year old who has left home and is now in a relationship with a 30 or 40 year old. The parents try going to the police to see what can be done but are shocked to learn, as I think Canadians are shocked to learn, that it is perfectly legal in this country for someone who is the age of a parent or even a grandparent to pursue a sexual relationship with a 14 or 15 year old.

Bill C-22 would end that. Adults would no longer legally be able to prey on young people. However, Bill C-22, as the member mentioned, does have a close in age exemption, which means that a 14 or 15 year old can consent to sexual activity with someone who is no greater than five years older. Therefore, we are clearly not criminalizing relationships between young people who are of a similar age.

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10:55 a.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have heard from a lot of people in my community of Hamilton Mountain about this bill and many share the government's desire to raise the age of consent. I am pleased to put those views on the record here. They, of course, are motivated by a desire to keep their children safe, particularly from exploitative relationships.

However, given that motivation, they are also really concerned because obviously they understand that no matter what we do in this chamber some kids will be having sexual relationships with people more than five years older than them, which at times will put them at risk, particularly with respect to their sexual health.

I wonder if the government has given any thought at all to amending the Evidence Act so that when those teens seek medical attention for sexual health issues, they will be able to seek that without fear of putting their partners in jeopardy, which might be something that would actually prevent them from seeking the medical attention they may desperately need.

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Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, at the justice committee we heard testimony dealing with the sexual health of young people and the need for them to have access to their doctors. We also heard, overwhelmingly, that it was now time for the Government of Canada and all parliamentarians to act and to raise the age of consent from 14 years old to 16 years old.

What that says to those parents who are concerned about their young people is that it will no longer be illegal in Canada for a 25, 35 or 45 year old to have a sexual relationship with a 14 or 15 year old child.

Child exploitation experts have, overwhelmingly, called for this bill and it has been welcomed. I am pleased to see the support it now has in Parliament. It was a long time coming and probably way too long, but there was a need to bring our age of protection in line with what is currently the case in other jurisdictions. We needed to say, in a very meaningful way and in the strongest way possible, that we as a government do not condone these exploitative relationships. It was serious enough that we felt we had to amend the Criminal Code to tell adult sexual predators that our children in Canada are off limits to them.

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, after hearing the question and listening to the answer just given I want some clarification. I believe there is some confusion here with regard to exploitative sexual activity.

Under the Criminal Code, exploitative sexual activity, regardless of age, is a criminal offence. This bill does not deal with just exploitative activity. This bill deals with sexual activity. I would like the parliamentary secretary to please make it very clear, because it is an important point, that sexually exploitative activity is already illegal under the laws of Canada and that this bill deals with non-exploitative sexual activity between persons 16 years of age and someone greater than five years older.

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11 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, I noted that the hon. member ran into the chamber as I was ending my speech but if he had been here to listen to my speech he would know that twice in my speech I mentioned that in Canada for exploitative relationships the age of protection and the age of consent remains at 18.

What we have decided as a government and what Canadians have told us and child exploitation experts have said is that if there is an age difference, if someone is 55 years old and that young person is 14 or 15, then it is exploitative on its face.

We are raising the age of protection for sexual activity to 16. The reason the age is being raised is based on the testimony we heard at committee. What we heard was that the laws that were put in place, whatever merit they had, were not strong enough. The current provisions of the Criminal Code dealing with exploitative relationships or positions of trust or authority are also not strong enough. I was here when some amendments were made to the Criminal Code to protect young people. Even after that, we saw relationships where it was someone much older preying on someone who was 14 or 15 and the police said that there was nothing they could do about it, which is why we have this bill.

Not enough was done in the past and there was a reluctance by past governments to do what had to be done, which was to raise the age of protection to protect young people, which is, very clearly, what this bill does.

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak at the report stage on Bill C-22, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (age of protection).

I would like to say, for those who are listening, that the Liberal Party of Canada supports this legislation.

Before I begin discussing the bill in detail, I wish to briefly address several remarks made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice in his speech several minutes ago. He said that there were delays with the bill and that the government was happy that the bill was finally at this stage.

I wish to inform people that the Minister of Justice tabled Bill C-22 in the House of Commons on June 22, 2006. The House then adjourned for the summer. It came back at the end of September.

It is the government's prerogative to determine when it wants to move second reading and debate of its own legislation. The government moved debate at second reading on October 30, 2006. This was after the Liberal justice strategy was announced, after Liberals and the then Liberal justice critic offered to fast-track Bill C-22 and a number of other justice bills that the Conservative government had tabled.

Debate at second reading ended on October 30, 2006, which meant that there was an agreement by all parties not to delay debate in the House and to get the bill into committee as quickly as possible. It was referred to the justice and human rights committee, which was already conducting hearings on a series of other government bills and private members' bills.

The justice and human rights committee held hearings on Bill C-22, the age of protection bill, on March 21, March 22, March 27 and March 29, 2007. Members will remember that there was a two week adjournment for the Easter period.

The House returned on April 16 and the justice and human rights committee, which is scheduled to meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays, met on Tuesday, April 17 and on Thursday, April 19. The committee concluded its clause by clause and reported the bill back to the House on April 23.

The government decides when to move debate at report stage and it only decided to move Bill C-22 at report stage this week. It was in a line of bills for which the government determines the order.

If any member of that government is dissatisfied with the length of time it has taken for Bill C-22 to pass through second reading debate, committee stage and reported back, and now be at report stage debate, they need only to look at themselves in the mirror.

As the House knows, the bill has returned to the House from the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. It has been reported with an amendment, as was mentioned by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

The amendment added marriage as a defence where an accused is charged with: sexual interference, which is section 151 of the Criminal Code; invitation to sexual touching, section 152 of the Criminal Code; indecent acts, section 173.2 of the Criminal Code; and sexual assault, section 271 of the Criminal Code, in cases where the complainant is 14 years or older but under the age of 16. We Liberals worked alongside the other parties to bring this amendment through.

We are happy to see it included in the committee's report on the bill. We are also happy that, notwithstanding the fact that the Conservative members on the justice and human rights committee, including the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice, opposed the amendment in committee, those members have not brought forth a motion to amend the report stage bill and remove that defence.

I had proposed an amendment to the bill. The amendment would have repealed section 159 of the Criminal Code. This section sets out anal intercourse as a criminal offence. This outdated section of the Criminal Code is a relic of Canada's past and in fact has been found contrary to Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Two appellate courts, one in Quebec and the other in Ontario, reached this conclusion.

When the government drafted Bill C-22, it could have acted then to remove this archaic section of the Criminal Code or, having failed to do that, perhaps through inadvertence--I gave them the benefit of the doubt that it was by inadvertence--the government at that point could have supported my amendment in committee, because even if an amendment is beyond the scope of the bill, if the government agrees to the amendment it is then admissible and can be debated, voted on and adopted.

The government, however, decided on two occasions, when it was forced to take on the issue with this outmoded, archaic section of the Criminal Code, which is clearly a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that it would instead champion discrimination and homophobia. I think this speaks volumes to that Conservative government's values and the members of that government.

Be that as it may, the bill did pass through the committee without other changes. The committee hearings on Bill C-22 proceeded smoothly and brought forth the views of many Canadian individuals and organizations who have a stake in this issue. Most stakeholders spoke in favour of the bill, while some did speak against it.

Among all parties there was a strong desire to support the bill and to see it clear the committee process quickly and efficiently. I believe the dates that I mentioned show that this is exactly what we achieved.

I would like to repeat that our party supports Bill C-22. Since October 2006, we have repeatedly offered to fast-track a number of justice bills. Surprisingly, the minority Conservative government has refused our offer. It would seem that the government addresses justice issues only when it thinks it can manipulate them for political gain. This is a government that would have Canadians believe it is taking action, but that is not delivering the goods. This is a government that is far more interested in grabbing headlines than getting results that will make Canadians and Canadian communities safer. This is a pattern that has been repeated a number of times already, as in the case of Bill C-22.

In October 2006, my colleague, the member for London West, who was then our party's justice critic, offered the government the chance to fast-track a series of six justice bills that the government had tabled in this House, including Bill C-22. The government turned us down flat. With my colleague, the member for Wascana, who is the Liberal House leader, I made the same offer again in mid-March, and again the government turned a deaf ear.

Towards the end of March, the Leader of the Opposition also made the same offer. The government again did not listen and completely ignored this last offer. To top it off, the government even had the audacity to oppose a motion I tabled to immediately move to third reading of four bills that the government itself had tabled, that is Bills C-18, C-23, C-35, and of course C-22.

Bill C-18 deals with DNA identification. Bill C-23, which is presently before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, is an omnibus bill that makes corrections and technical amendments to the Criminal Code with respect to various procedures. Bill C-35 deals with the reverse onus of proof in bail hearings. This government has stated that this bill is all-important to its agenda and to its justice policy but has flatly refused to accelerate the process in the House. The last bill is Bill C-22, which we are currently debating. This is the first time, in my almost 10 years as a member of Parliament, that I have seen a federal government impede the progress of its own legislation. Who would have thought it possible? Anything is possible, its seems, for this minority Conservative government.

In conclusion, I simply wish to say that, from the time Bill C-22 was tabled in this House, in June 2006, the Liberal Party of Canada, the official opposition, has shown its support for this bill and has attempted to convince this government to fast-track it. However, it was the government that blocked any attempt by the official opposition to quickly adopt Bill C-22. We are very pleased that, finally, this bill is in the House at the report and third reading stage. We intend to vigorously support this bill.

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11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's comments, although there was some rambling on a number of things other than the specific bill.

One of the things I want to ask the hon. member about is the exemption on marriage. There have been a number of calls in my constituency supporting the government's raising of the age and also for Parliament to get on with its business in doing this. They are very concerned about the exemption that potentially has come back.

In the interests of recognizing that this is a minority Parliament and that the committee has spoken and wants us to get on with this, could the hon. member comment on the exemption? What do I say to my constituents? Is the balance of this bill, in spite of that exemption, going to be good? Are we making a tremendous amount of progress on that in spite of the exemption?