Debates of Oct. 22nd, 2009

Retribution on Behalf of Victims of White Collar Crime Act

[Jim Maloway, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Madam Speaker, the member would know that Canadians, when they deal with their lawyers, they can deal with them properly. If the lawyer steals the money, the money will be reimbursed through the law society. They know they are protected when they deal with security dealers. If the money disappears, the security dealers are properly registered and properly bonded.

Therefore, the issue really becomes why people like Earl Jones are able to operate in an unlicensed, not bonded, unregulated environment. That is why there have to be further regulations put on the banks, just as we have federal regulations dealing with money laundering, where real estate agents across the country have to report suspicious activity. I believe lawyers are supposed to as well, at least that is what they talked about last year. Certainly life insurance agents have to report suspicious activity. If that onus were put on the banking system, these people would be unable to operate very long.

Do not forget, they are transferring money out of the country to tax havens in the Cayman Islands and other places. For all of these fraudsters that is the common element. They deal with banks. Banks are heavily regulated. Bank people are trained to spot suspicious activity. In fact, by law, they have to report deposits in cash over $10,000. It is not that much more difficult to train them to spot suspicious activity on the part of people like this.

Even when Mr. Jones was registering at the bank for his bank account, he should have had to produce registrations proving that he was a licensed investment dealer and that he had the proper bonding and registrations.

This is the type of additional activity at which the federal government should look. The bill is a good first start and we will support it to get it to committee. However, we should be looking at these other areas as well, and I think the member was alluding to that in his speech.

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, I know a number of safeguards are in place already. I know, as the member has already mentioned, banks are required to report certain action that they may see when people walk in and withdraw $50,000 from a bank account or anything over $10,000. They are asked to file those types of reports.

I look across the way and I see a colleague from the Liberal Party whom I sat with on a national security committee. We have studied this. We know those types of withdrawals can be used for terrorist activities. My colleague is correct. It is organized crime.

This is not specific to pyramid schemes. Pyramid schemes are an offence in themselves and are listed somewhere else. However, a lot of this can also be the $4,000, $5,000, $6,000 investments multiplied over hundreds of people, which banks would not recognize it on the one side from those who are investing or losing the money. I think what the member is alluding to is they had better recognize it on those who are perpetrating that activity.

Let me very clear. Very seldom do these individuals use one little local bank and everything is there under one account in one branch or in one banking institution. Organized crime uses hundreds of different institutions. Those people are masters in being able to launder money, but they are also masters in being able to put it into a place where there is going to be very few questions asked.

I am not certain I would disagree with the member. We can always be looking at ways that we can better educate and better protect Canadians. I would hope that our government is doing that.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Madam Speaker, some of the issues the member for Crowfoot talked about are some of the very things I hear from my constituents.

I live in a rural riding that has a fairly large senior population. I know the legislation the government is bring forward is going a long way to help combat some of the issues with which we are dealing.

Earlier today a member from the Bloc Québécois wanted to know if there were any cases where a person who had committed fraud over $1 million had been given a sentence that was under two years. The fact is there have been cases like this.

Could the member for Crowfoot give us a few examples of those types of cases?

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, the answer is yes, there have been. There have been a number of cases where the courts deemed differently because of mitigating circumstances such as first time offence, others with no criminal record or a case where it involved the community's best people. These were people who were volunteers in minor hockey programs or in their communities, but they were also involved.

In R v Cioffi the accused was authorizing loans to fictitious people. She was charged with fraud over $5,000. The fraud amounted to more than $4 million and lasted for four years. The scheme was set up by another person who was accused merely of implementing the program that someone else had set up. The aggravating factors in that case, the court found there was a huge abuse of trust. A large number of fraudulent transactions over a long period of time had taken place, so it was not just that she was caught up for a short period of time. The mitigating factors in this case: she never had an extensive criminal record. The accused did not personally benefit because she had set it up for someone else and the accused was also a victim of fraud. She ended up with two years less a day and the stay was granted.

In another case, R v McCarthy, the accused was charged with three counts of fraud over $5,000 related to two loans totalling in excess of $3 million and the ongoing trading of shares. The court found aggravating factors: breach of trust, considerable amount defrauded, significant number of victims. The mitigating factors were: no criminal record, no threat to the community, a record of community involvement. He received a conditional sentence. The $3 million impact to the economy is one thing that we did not really get into, but a $3 million fraud received a conditional sentence of two years less a day followed by a year of probation. The list is long.

One of the differences between governments is that when the former Liberal government tried to make it look like it was toughening up on this type of crime, it extended the maximum sentence. The courts simply did not give very many people the maximum sentence.

The bill says there will be a minimum sentence, a minimum of two years in prison for any fraudulent activity where people are charged and sentenced. Again, the bill also says we will look to restitution. That is what Canadians want. They want to know that there will be a degree of restitution where we can find it. That is what the bill does.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Madam Speaker, I would like my colleague to reiterate some of the ways that victims truly are traumatized and doubly victimized by this kind of crime, not just that the funds that are stolen from them but some of the intangible ways that their lives are affected so negatively.

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

The hon. member for Crowfoot has 40 seconds for his response.

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, I can speak quickly. I own an auction company, so I can do it like an auctioneer.

Many people invested in these types of things to secure an education for their children. We had a case where they felt they could invest in a program and in five years, when their kids were ready to go to college, they would not have to go through the student loans. There were reasons why perhaps their children could not access a student loan. They put money in hoping their children would get an education. Well, they got an education from the school of hard knocks. That is where the children ended up going because there were no moneys because of the loss.

In other cases, the farm has been put up and owners have seen significant losses. There are cases in retirement where they have stopped--

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Bloc Québécois to Bill C-52 relating to economic crimes.

I am particularly pleased because our colleague from Abitibi—Témiscamingue had an opportunity today to deliver the main position of the Bloc Québécois. As we know, before our colleague from Abitibi—Témiscamingue became a member of this House, he was a criminal lawyer for 30 years.

We also have our justice critic, the member for Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, who is also a criminal lawyer, and who of course was Attorney General of Quebec and was also a senior official in the ministère de la Sécurité publique in Quebec.

When the Bloc Québécois analyzes bills, it does so thoroughly. For two days now, the Bloc Québécois has been asking the Minister of Justice to provide a list of the cases in which criminals and fraud artists defrauded people of over $1 million and were then given sentences of less than two years.

For two days, our Conservative colleagues have had their research service working on it. This has to be examined, because we must never forget that the legal system we have inherited from our parents and our grandparents is based on precedent, and so is obviously a constantly evolving system. I hope the examples the Conservatives have cited for us are recent law and are new decisions or the most recent decisions.

It is too easy to engage in demagoguery, particularly when it comes from the Conservatives, because they have decided to do politics the easy way. It pays to be tough on crime, because often the public listens to the media, and obviously both the press and the electronic media often sell papers or attract viewers by inflating a news item and trying to sensationalize it. That is how our democratic societies work, and that is fine.

The public can make up their own minds. They watch more than one television network. They are not all the same. They can read more than one newspaper and they do not all have the same opinions on a subject. That is fine. Except that when a political party like the Conservative Party decides to jump to conclusions, it is very easy and it is demagoguery at its worst when they try to take a single trend and apply it to a party’s agenda. And they think this is the way to win elections.

Obviously, they may think this has borne fruit for them, except that in Quebec, Quebeckers are much more vigilant in terms of how justice is administered, and they get to the bottom of things. That is why, election after election, a majority of the members they elect to this House are from the Bloc Québécois, which gets to the bottom of things before taking positions.

In Quebec, we have had to deal with major white-collar crime cases. We are talking about the Norbourg case, with Lacroix, and the Earl Jones case. Obviously, these are perfect examples of criminals who have abused the system. These fraud artists had built up their system over a number of years. These were not occasional frauds. These are criminals who built an entire empire, one that made a lot of profit for them personally. They were able to live the high life, they had a wonderful life, and obviously, with the outcomes we have seen when the economic crisis hit, everything collapsed and all the houses of cards they had built crumbled.

This clearly left victims, people who lost a lot of money, in distress. Once again, when I talk about a government’s skill at exploiting public opinion, that is what it is trying to make us believe, that Bill C-52 is going to solve the problem.

What the victims of Vincent Lacroix and Earl Jones are looking for is to recover their money. It is wrong to say that the bill will enable victims to do so. It will not make recovery of the money possible.

Once again, it is all very well to say the guilty person will be required to reimburse something, but they have to have assets left to do so. The fact of the matter is that, in the cases of Vincent Lacroix and Earl Jones, it becomes clear very quickly that the money has disappeared because they had set up the system years previously. Perhaps the Conservatives are fooled, but we in the Bloc Québécois are not. The money has disappeared and is probably to be found in tax havens protected by the government. The Bloc has, for a number of years now, called on both the Liberals at the time and the Conservatives to abolish tax havens, and they do nothing about it. This bill is not going to make it possible to recover all the funds in tax havens that might be held by white collar criminals. It has absolutely no impact on tax havens.

So, once again, the victims are stuck and for good reason. The Minister of Justice's strategy was to publicize this bill before introducing it in the House. Today, the leader of the Bloc Québécois rose on a point of order about this. I know that the Chair will consider the matter and rule on the Conservatives' new approach, which is to short-circuit the House of Commons. Our prime objective, however, is to enact legislation. This is the first time in the history of Canada that a government has decided, in an effort to influence public opinion, to release the bill directly in the media before parliamentarians have seen it.

Once again, why did they do it? Out of sheer partisanship. This is the Conservative approach to politics. I repeat. Quebeckers are not fooled. The people of the rest of Canada, however, clearly are fooled by the Conservatives' behaviour. That is their problem. Quebeckers have understood the messages. Nevertheless, for non partisan purposes, the Bloc, on our return to the House of Commons in September, sought the unanimous consent of the House to table a measure regarding the abolition of the granting of parole after one-sixth of a sentence has been served. The Conservatives will try to convince us that there must be a minimum sentence of two years for crimes involving over $1 million.

All that that accomplished—the fact that the Conservatives waited—is that criminals in Quebec, the Vincent Lacroix types of this world, are pleading guilty. Earl Jones is in the process of doing the same thing. Vincent Lacroix decided to plead guilty in September. Earl Jones is getting ready to plead guilty. They are doing so precisely to avoid having a bill, such as the one introduced by the Bloc Québécois to abolish parole after one-sixth of a sentence has been served, come into effect before they are sentenced, so they can be paroled after serving one-sixth of it. That was the twisted part. The victims are not reimbursed, and these criminals can be released after serving one-sixth of their sentence.

Vincent Lacroix was sentenced to eight years in prison. He got out after serving one-sixth, or 15 months, of his civil court sentence. He was sentenced in criminal court as well as a result of legal proceedings instituted by the AMF. He decided to plead guilty to these criminal charges. He was sentenced to 15 years in prison but will be eligible for release after serving one-sixth. This means we will see Vincent Lacroix back on our streets after two and a half years. That is what the Conservatives are trying to stuff down the throats of Quebeckers.

But Quebeckers have already moved on. They know we have to get rid of conditional release after one-sixth of the sentence for these criminals. Why? These criminals are obviously not what are usually considered dangerous. They have not committed armed robbery. Ultimately, though, they are just as dangerous because they get to their victims psychologically. I know, of course, that the Conservatives have a bit of a difficulty with psychology and things like that. I know quite a few of them who find that sort of thing difficult. But that is where Quebeckers are now, and that is what the Bloc Québécois expected.

In a spirit of non-partisanship, therefore, the Bloc Québécois is saying today that it will vote in favour of this bill so that it can be sent to committee and improved. As it now stands, it will not resolve the problems of the victims.

The minister’s attempt to hold a press conference to unveil his bill failed miserably because the victims were not convinced when it came to their two major problems: the reimbursement of their money and ensuring that these criminals do not return to our streets after two and a half or three years. This bill does nothing to resolve these two problems.

It is hard because we are dealing with a government that has the entire bureaucracy and tremendous resources at its disposal. It uses them to promote itself. It even makes cheques out with the Conservative Party logo on them. It is quite the thing to see them in action. They use government advertising dollars to sing the praises of their own political platform.

The Conservatives will not succeed, though, because they are not achieving the objectives, at least in Quebec. It is difficult for them because they are on the wrong path. We have experts here. The hon. member for Marc-Aurèle-Fortin and the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue are well-known criminal lawyers. The hon. member for Marc-Aurèle-Fortin was the Attorney General of Quebec. But the Conservatives are not listening to common sense.

That is the message the Bloc is delivering here. That is the hand that the Bloc reached out to the government in September. First the Bloc Québécois tried to show that there are criminals who are prepared to plead guilty because they will be eligible for parole anyway after serving a sixth of their sentence. Why not unanimously support a Bloc Québécois bill to abolish conditional release after a sixth of the sentence? That would prevent the Vincent Lacroix’s and Earl Jones’s of this world from serving a two-and-a-half year sentence when they should be serving 15 years. Even if they got a 25-year sentence, they would only serve a couple more years if they served just one-sixth. In that case, they would serve four years instead of two and a half before returning to the streets. That is the reality. We do not know whether a two-year minimum is enough. Lacroix got eight years and was released after 16 months. If he pleads guilty, he will be sentenced to 15 years in prison but will be back on our streets after two and a half years. That is the reality and that is what the victims find so infuriating.

The second problem has to do with restitution. There is no mention of compensation or a compensation fund in this bill. The Conservatives are introducing a compensation process by saying that the guilty party will have to compensate his victims. That already exists in the Criminal Code. The problem with organized fraud by the likes of Vincent Lacroix, Earl Jones or Cinar is that there is no solution in this bill. For weeks, the Bloc Québécois and its leader have been saying in this House that there was fraud in the case of Cinar. There was collusion at the Department of Justice under the Liberals. The press took note of that. Again, the Minister of Justice rose in this House to ask whether we had new information to reopen the case. We see new information in many of the newspapers in Quebec. They probably do not read newspapers from Quebec. We can see what impact it has on them politically not to do so. They would be well served to read the Quebec media, which has all the details on this affair. The people of Quebec have decided to clean house. They truly want white collar criminals to stay in prison for the duration of their sentence, be it 15, 20 or 25 years. Criminals have to serve their sentence.

People who lost their money want to be compensated whether it is the government that does so or not. Some may have submitted requests, but they want someone to go after the money hidden in tax havens by the criminals. People are under the impression, and I agree with them, that when the criminals get out after serving one-sixth of their sentence, or after a year and a half or two years and a half, they get on a boat or plane and are never seen again. They will live out their days under the sun thanks to the money they stole from their victims. It will be thanks to the Government of Canada because the elected members of this House will not have been intelligent enough to understand what the Bloc Québécois has been trying to say for over three years now.

Requests were submitted to the government In 2007 and again in 2009. We have been saying that the system needs to be fixed. It is time to take action. It is no time to be ideological and keep bleating about being tough on crime, as the Conservative MPs are doing. Tough on crime, tough on crime; it is rather redundant.

We have to be able to prevent white collar criminals, the likes of Vincent Lacroix and Earl Jones, from returning to society and the community after 16 months. That is what happened with Lacroix after his first trial even though he was sentenced to eight years imprisonment. He was recently sentenced to 15 years but in two and a half years he will be out again.

Quebeckers do not want this to happen any more. Victims who have lost money want restitution and want us to simply abolish tax havens because that is where the money is.

Once again, the member for Marc-Aurèle-Fortin has proposed a special squad of accountants. The RCMP should set up such a squad to track the money in these tax havens.

I realize that this is a problem for the Conservatives. When tax havens are allowed and, through bilateral agreements with certain countries, you encourage citizens to invest money in them, you are not too keen on having the RCMP investigate the money that is transferred to these countries.

Those countries that have signed an agreement with Canada would surely call to tell us to not set up a squad to conduct investigations in their countries. We should simply break our ties with these countries and establish special squads of chartered accountants, specialized accountants and certified general accountants who would conduct investigations.

If we look back in history, Eliot Ness was finally able to charge Al Capone with the help of the US Internal Revenue Service. That is how they sentenced the most notorious criminal in America. It was not by trying to arrest him for crimes committed because they were never able to prove them. They convicted him of tax evasion and that is how they were able to nab him.

That is the reality. We must use our tax system in order to follow the money trail. Day in and day out, victims tell us that they do not understand how they were drawn into such an affair. What is worse, they find themselves back where they started but with no money.

Then we learn that people like Earl Jones and Vincent Lacroix have no money left. People find it very difficult to believe—as I do—that these fraudsters have gone through hundreds of millions of dollars just like that. Earl Jones traveled all around for three weeks before being taken into custody.

The authorities looked for him worldwide. Search calls went out. Was he in England or another country? We were told that he was here, but he was able to stash all his money away and that is what we need to find out. I understand why people are cynical. They are saying that since he pleaded guilty, no one can know what is going to happen and we will not learn any more. They are right because Canada does not have a specialized RCMP investigation team to trace those funds. That is a fact.

Once again, and with a great deal of respect from all the members of this House, the Bloc Québécois introduced such measures and called for the unanimous consent of the House, which we did not obtain. Our request was simple, that is, simply to abolish the practice of parole after one-sixth of the sentence for white collar criminals. Our request was not complicated. We asked for unanimous consent, and the Conservatives said no.

Yesterday the Minister of Public Works and Government Services told us that more research was needed and that it was complicated. However, it is not complicated to say that white-collar criminals will not be entitled to early parole and will have to serve their full sentence. It is not complicated. It would have been a simple question of adding a few paragraphs to the legislation. We can do that. But, no, they want to completely overhaul the entire parole system.

So for four years now, they have been amending the Criminal Code section by section, one at a time, according to what is happening in society. There is no Conservative plan to amend the Criminal Code. They are doing it piece by piece. When a crime is committed and the public interest has been captured by the media, they introduce a bill. In the case of parole, they have decided they want to make a number of amendments. Once again, the Conservatives should pay attention to the wisdom of Quebeckers, represented here by the Bloc Québécois.

[Jim Maloway, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Madam Speaker, once again I think the government is doing a little false advertising with this bill and raising false hopes among the people in the country that white-collar criminals are actually going to spend a lot of time in jail when we pass this bill.

I think the member is on the right track here. If we are going to put people in jail and then allow them out after serving one-sixth of their sentence, I do not think that is what the public actually thinks is going on with this bill or that it is something the public would actually support.

The other area that the member raised was the whole issue of tax havens. Nobody believes that these criminals are keeping their money sitting in bank accounts here in Canada. We know that they are sending this money out to tax havens in the Cayman Islands and places like that.

I would ask the member whether he would agree that perhaps the government should be looking at regulating the banks a little more tightly so that we can try to track these suspicious movements of money.

I like his idea about beefing up the RCMP and having forensic auditors being more active. However, we also have to look at the regulatory framework and have tough regulation in this country, as opposed to having industry insiders sitting on the panels that are supposed to be doing the regulating.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Madam Speaker, in answer to the first part of my colleague's question, I would say that the Conservatives are using the justice system for purely partisan purposes. “Tough on crime” is a snappy little sound bite. It is easy to fit into speeches. The Conservative members have been well trained, like sheep, and they all know how to say “tough on crime”. However, actually being tough on crime is something else entirely. My colleague raised some good points about that.

Proclaiming that one is tough on crime is not what it takes to unanimously pass a bill eliminating conditional release, as the Bloc Québécois proposed, to prevent white collar criminals from being put back in the community after serving 16 or 18 months of an eight-year sentence. That is what happened with Vincent Lacroix, who is expected to spend two and a half years of his 15-year criminal sentence in jail. He was sentenced to eight years on civil charges. He will be back on our streets in two and a half years.

It was simple enough. We were not trying to play partisan politics, and we were not getting all dramatic, saying we were tough on crime. We just did not want criminals to be back on the streets after serving one-sixth of their sentence. It was not that hard to understand, but apparently, it was a little too complicated for the Conservatives.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague from Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel for the relevance of his remarks. What he did not say was that he also has legal training, like our colleagues from Abitibi—Témiscamingue and Marc-Aurèle-Fortin.

The relevance of his remarks was very much appreciated. I think that they helped clarify the intentions of this bill. The bill's title in French is meaningful. The French title refers to “châtiment”, meaning retribution or punishment, on behalf of victims of crime. That is the word used, and the root of that word comes from the French for “sharia”. I do not think that parliamentarians should be creating revenge bills; they should be creating bills that seek justice.

Often, in order to get people to understand the scope of a measure, we need to stimulate their imaginations. The Leader of the Bloc Québécois spoke about a role model, Guy Lafleur, who became very famous because of what he accomplished both on and off the ice. Under a similar bill, he could have been the victim of some of these measures. These measures would be identical to those applied to someone who did something as horrible as stealing more than $1 million, when he simply gave contradictory evidence in court. The measure is pretty clear.

Would this bill not end up creating more victims?

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Madam Speaker, yes, and that was very eloquent.

I said earlier that the problem with the Conservatives is that they do not read the Quebec papers. It was very telling to see the analyses in the press, even the ones by legal experts, because they were clearly divided on the issue. Most said, though, that under this bill, people like Guy Lafleur would have automatically been sentenced to prison. It is amazing how the Conservatives are determined to replace the justice system. There is a reason we have been asking them for two days to cite one case where a criminal who committed fraud over $1 million was sentenced to less than two years in prison.

Earlier, a Conservative finally gave us an answer and named cases. The Bloc Québécois experts and I have taken note of them. We have to be careful. We are talking about cases, crimes and sentences in recent case law. There have been many such cases in Quebec and the rest of Canada recently. We are talking about case law that is up to date, because it evolves. Obviously, cases affect other cases and form case law, which evolves over time. It is therefore important to consider the latest cases and trends. We will check. Lately, at least for rulings handed down in Quebec in the case of fraud over $1 million, offenders have been sentenced to more than two years in prison.

That is not the problem. Vincent Lacroix was given a civil sentence of eight years imprisonment because the sentences were for terms of less than two years cumulatively. He was able to get out after 16 months incarceration because he was eligible for parole after serving one-sixth of his sentence. That is the problem identified by all victims and all Quebeckers who saw Vincent Lacroix plead guilty immediately after the Bloc Québécois presented its motion.

We had unanimously requested in this House that the provision of release after serving one-sixth of sentence be abolished for white collar criminals. The Conservatives said no. Two days later, Vincent Lacroix pleaded guilty in order to avoid serving his full sentence of 15 years, which would have been the case under the Bloc Québécois proposal to abolish parole after serving one-sixth of a sentence.

The Conservatives' inertia made it possible for Vincent Lacroix to be sentenced and to be free in two and a half years. That is the reality. That is how the Conservatives play petty politics with the topic of the day. The Conservative members say they are tough on crime but in the end they just follow along blindly. The result is that Vincent Lacroix pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment but will be out on the streets in two and a half years.

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Order, please. I have the honour to inform the House that a communication has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall

Ottawa

October 21, 2009

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Thomas Cromwell, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy of the Governor General, signified royal asset by written declaration to the bills listed in the schedule to this letter on the 21st day of October, 2009, at 5:36 p.m.

Yours sincerely,

Sheila-Marie Cook

Secretary to the Governor General

The schedule indicates the bills assented to were Bill S-4, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (identity theft and related misconduct), and Bill C-25, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (limiting credit for time spent in pre-sentencing custody).

Resuming debate. The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. I should advise him that he will have not quite 10 minutes and may continue after question period.

The House resumed from consideration of the motion that Bill C-52, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing for fraud), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak today to this particular bill.

I work with the Bloc member, who spoke earlier, on my committee, and he asked what the Conservative government's plan was. I can assure him that the Conservative government's plan and priority is to protect victims of crime, not to stand up for criminals but to stand up for Canadians and Canadian families and ensure victims are protected and future crimes are avoided.

The Bloc would like to join us in this particular agenda, and I would welcome them. I have noticed as well, from the questions of some of the NDP members, that they are also interested in moving forward with the Conservative government to protect victims and to ensure that criminals actually pay for the crimes they commit.

As one famous Canadian said, the Liberals, however, are so confused, they are stabbing each other in the front right now. So, I am not sure where they sit, although they have said that they will join us in this particular agenda. I would welcome them to join us in future agendas to protect Canadians and Canadian families.

This bill contains six measures, all of which are designed in some way to enhance the sentencing process for offenders convicted of fraud. Indeed, many families are devastated as a result of fraud, especially serious fraud involving tens, if not hundreds of thousands upon millions of dollars of pension funds. Many Canadians are affected by this. We as a government are committed to ensuring that this practice will stop as much as possible and that those people who do commit these crimes actually pay, so we discourage future criminals from committing those crimes.

The first of these elements is the mandatory minimum penalty, which is so popular with most Canadians. Canadians are most concerned about large scale frauds, as I mentioned, that actually wipe out people's life savings and demonstrate the extreme greed of the criminal and indifference to others. To address this concern, the bill includes a mandatory penalty of a minimum of two years imprisonment for any fraud or combined frauds of over $1 million.

We should mention that this mandatory minimum penalty acts as a floor to ensure that there is some consistency with judges and justices throughout this country and that people who do commit this crime have a clear message from the government that they will do the time if they commit the crime.

The second element is in relation to aggravating factors. This is an excellent case of where the government is taking some common sense approaches to ensuring we protect victims and punish criminals. There are currently four statutory aggravating factors for fraud under section 380.1 of the Criminal Code, and the bill would add new aggravating factors to the list. We believe, as a government, that these new factors would go further to deterring criminals and ensuring victims are considered in all aspects of these matters.

The first factor is the impact of the fraud on its victim. The victims would prepare a victim impact statement and provide that to the court so that the court can see first-hand how this particular offence and how this particular criminal has affected them, their family, their friends and their future life.

In my past life as a litigator for some 11 years, I saw this impact directly, not just on individuals, Canadian families and seniors, but also many times on clubs: curling clubs, skating clubs and many non-profit groups that actually rely on these funds and then find out, after they have appointed somebody to a position of trust to manage these funds and take care of them, they find after three or four months, sometimes even years, that all of a sudden all the money is gone and all that is left is paperwork. The criminal has spent it either on gambling, which many times is the case, or just simply on a lavish lifestyle. That would be the first of the new aggravating factors to be considered by justices and judges across this country.

The second factor that is important for today is the complexity and magnitude of the fraud itself, because these criminals are becoming much more adventurous, much more intellectual as far as the crime itself and how they go about committing it. We want to ensure judges consider this in the sentencing provisions themselves.

The third aggravating factor is the failure of the offender to comply with the applicable rules and regulations as set out by the particular situation they are in, and, off course, that speaks for itself.

Finally, the fourth statutory aggravating factor that would be added to section 380.1 of the Criminal Code would be any attempt by the offender to conceal or destroy records relevant to the fraud, which obviously shows the offender's bad faith and intention to try to get away with the crime even after he or she is caught.

All of these issues are extremely important. Criminals and victims themselves should recognize that this Conservative government is standing up for them and ensuring their priorities are met.

The third measure is what judges have considered as aggravating and mitigating circumstances. This would require the sentencing court to state on the record, which is very important, which aggravating and mitigating factors it has applied. The reason for this is to ensure consistency. As we know, we have a system of law that relies on case law and precedents to ensure that judges that make future decisions are able to examine what past judges have done and make decisions based upon that to ensure consistency across the country from province to province and coast to coast, which is very important. This is also to ensure transparency in the decisions themselves made by the judges so that when they make a decision, which may not be normal or may fall outside of the boundaries, they state it clearly on the record.

These factors will in part be very effective to ensure that future criminals will not consistently--

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Order, please. The hon. member will have 13 minutes remaining for his comments after question period.

Denis Lévesque

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Madam Speaker, today I would like to pay tribute to an outstanding member of the Beauce community. Denis Lévesque received the Dollard-Morin volunteer award for sports and recreation on October 16, 2009, at a ceremony in Quebec City.

Mr. Lévesque is the head of the Tour de Beauce, or Grand Prix cycliste de Beauce, the largest bicycle road racing event in Canada, and has been helping organize competitions since 1993.

His tireless and conscientious work has led to success after success over the years. He has helped make the Tour de Beauce one of the largest sporting events in the world.

Congratulations, Denis. You have my utmost respect for your great generosity and dedication to amateur sports in Beauce.

East Hants Sportsplex

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, the East Hants Sportsplex in Lantz, Nova Scotia needs an expansion.

The local population has doubled over the last decade. Families are being turned away due to lack of ice time. The high school cannot get ice time for their hockey team. Public skating is limited to only once a week. The Halifax Chronicle Herald has written about the much-needed expansion. CBC has also aired a story on the project.

Municipal and provincial governments support the expansion project. It is shovel-ready. The planning is complete. East Hants has committed $3.5 million to the project. Nova Scotia has committed $5.6 million to the project. Project organizers have applied for federal funding. They met with the regional minister.

To date there has been nothing but silence from the Conservatives. The residents of East Hants pay the same taxes voters in Conservative ridings pay.

Why is funding for a project in the defence minister's riding announced in the absence of any municipal partnership? Why are the people of East Hants being treated as second-rate citizens by the Conservative government just for exercising their democratic rights as citizens?

Peter Kennedy

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, around noon on Monday, an explosion on the Hill was heard for miles around. The event turned tragic for several of the region's workers and families when three employees were injured, one of them seriously.

Following the explosion of a boiler in the Cliff Street heating plant right here on the Hill, Peter Kennedy, a 51-year-old husband and father, received second-degree burns to over 50% of his body and a serious head wound.

We were deeply distressed to learn that Mr. Kennedy, whom his colleagues describe as a hard worker and a mentor, passed away on Tuesday as a result of his injuries.

On behalf of my Bloc Québécois colleagues, I would like to convey our most sincere condolences to Peter Kennedy's family and friends. I also wish the other two workers injured during the tragic accident a speedy recovery.

Pensions

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, over a year ago the NDP began setting our priorities for much-needed change to Canada's pension system.

We held a round table where pension experts, actuaries, financial experts and seniors' groups raised concerns but offered innovative ways to address the problems of our pension system.

Liberals are just now starting to engage the same expert on pensions that we consulted months ago. The June NDP opposition day motion, which passed unanimously, laid out a road map for this House to direct its energy regarding pension and income security for seniors.

As the NDP's critic for seniors and pensions, I spent the summer visiting seniors in 20 communities across Canada, listening to their concerns, and forming our planning on this important issue.

Months of activity culminated today in the announcement of the NDP plan for retirement security for all. Our plan will end seniors' poverty by increasing the GIS and strengthening the CPP and QPP in consultation with the provinces, with the goal of doubling benefits and developing a national pension insurance program as well as a national facility to adopt pensions of companies in crisis or bankruptcy.

The NDP is working for seniors.

Canada-United States Relations

[Merv Tweed, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow former Manitoba premier Gary Doer will formally present his papers to the U.S. state department and officially begin work as ambassador.

Before he goes, he is in Ottawa to meet with our cabinet. In the days ahead our government will continue working with our American neighbours as we come together to solve the challenges of the global economic downturn.

We are not out of the woods yet, and it is important that we continue moving forward with stimulus projects on both sides of the border. As well, we must apply the lessons of history and continue to resist protectionist pressures.

Our two countries have had great success in working together in the past, and the clean energy dialogue is another great example of how we can address common problems through a common approach.

On behalf of this House and all Canadians, I would like to extend best wishes and wish great luck to Ambassador Doer.

Veterans Affairs

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Joe Hawco laid his life on the line for his country, serving in the Canadian military for 17 years. He was a peacekeeper who did two tours of duty in the Middle East. He had a fellow peacekeeper die in his arms while on duty.

Mr. Hawco is now 74 years of age and suffers from dementia. I am sure all members of the House would want him to be treated with the dignity and respect he deserves.

However, Mr. Hawco does not qualify for the Department of Veterans Affairs Caribou Pavilion because he did not serve in a world war or in the Korean conflict. Only those who did so have access to the services of the Department of Veterans Affairs facilities. Peacekeepers do not have access, nor do those returning from Afghanistan.

It is time to review this practice. We must do right by our heroes.

Zimbabwe

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Prime Minister Tsvangirai of Zimbabwe announced that his party would be disengaging from the inclusive government.

Prime Minister Tsvangirai has since embarked on a regional tour of key Southern African Development Community capitals hoping to gather support that would pressure ZANU (PF) into honouring its commitment to implement the power-sharing agreement, the so-called global political agreement.

Canada continues to encourage regional leaders to use their influence to help resolve the crisis in Zimbabwe.

Canada maintains targeted sanctions which send a clear message that Canada abhors the degrading of a legitimate democratic process and the continuing human rights violations in Zimbabwe. These sanctions target those in power and will not affect the Zimbabwean people.

Our government continues to act in the name of human rights and the rule of law abroad.

Onondaga Submarine

[Claude Guimond, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pride and admiration that I rise to commend the hard work of the staff at the Pointe-au-Pere maritime museum and of its executive director, Serge Guay, who have turned HMCS Onondaga into a major and important tourist attraction in the lower St. Lawrence region.

The only submarine museum in Canada, this impressive vessel, weighing over 1,400 tonnes, and the unique experience it offers aroused the curiosity of visitors all summer long. Indeed, through various activities, visitors were able to discover what it means to be a submariner.

A total of over 90,000 people came to visit HMCS Onondaga, 85% of whom were from outside the Lower St. Lawrence region, which means it is an important tourist and economic attraction for the region.

I wish the submarine and Pointe-au-Pere maritime museum, and its staff, many years of success.