Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in the debate. We have just heard the hon. member for Ottawa Centre, who proposes that the Government of Canada call a public inquiry into the transfer of Taliban prisoners in Canadian custody to Afghan authorities from 2001 to 2009. This is the period in which Canada has been involved in the mission in Afghanistan.
Let us be perfectly clear. As we have heard from the introductory remarks to this debate by the member for Ottawa Centre, this is fuelled by partisan politics. This is fuelled by unfounded allegations. I heard the hon. member say not 30 seconds ago that the Afghan mission would cost $18 billion. He is pulling that figure out of the thin blue air. I can assure the House this is not the cost of the Afghan mission. I will now go through some of his other remarks and point out the truth.
This exercise would be unnecessary and a waste of taxpayer money. It would be duplication of effort, as we currently have a number of investigations going on into the exact same subject matter. In fact, I can point to three areas of investigation that are either under way or completed.
First of all, the Canadian Forces convened a board of inquiry to investigate the treatment of persons detained by the Canadian Forces in April 2006. The board concluded that Canadian Forces members, without exception, treated prisoners professionally and humanely, and that all actions taken by Canadian Forces members in dealing with prisoners complied with directives in place at the time of capture and were consistently above reproach.
During the board's investigation, the Canadian Forces made significant changes to improve their reporting and registration system, as well as the time frame for and level of the directives provided to Canadian Forces members in the field.
Second, the Military Police Complaints Commission is investigating detainee transfers. The Government of Canada is co-operating fully with the commission, where it is operating within its mandate as set out by the National Defence Act and defined by the federal court.
The Military Police Complaints Commission itself has confirmed that the Department of National Defence has provided the commission with access to hundreds of documents and produced dozens of witnesses with respect to the MPCC matters relating to detainees. The work of the commission is currently suspended by the decision of the chair, who has chosen to appeal the federal court's decision affirming its mandate.
The third area of investigation into detainee transfers is the ongoing study by the special parliamentary committee on the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. Here, again, the government is complying with the special committee's request for documents in a timely fashion.
However, there is another reason why an additional investigation is uncalled for.
Our implementation of the enhanced detainee arrangement has already had much of the intended effect. Upon taking office and discovering shortcomings in the arrangement and deficiencies signed by the previous government, we acted to improve it. This is the real issue.
As a government and upon taking office inheriting the mission, inheriting this topical issue, we acted. We acted decisively, we acted with resources and we acted responsibly. We started to invest in improving a difficult situation. I think even members of the opposition, if they could step back from their partisanship, would recognize that this was a particularly challenging issue, and I will come back to that. Therefore, we put a new arrangement in place.
I want to put on the record what the member for Vancouver South, who is one of the chief prosecutors in this matter, had to say about the arrangement that his government put in place. He was speaking to this matter on April 10, 2006, to a motion that was before the House. This is what he had to say then about his government's transfer arrangement:
I have had an opportunity to look at the agreement. I agree that it is an important agreement and it is one that is quite good in many respects. The involvement of the International Red Cross or the Red Crescent as an independent third party is very important because it can then follow the prisoners and ensure they are treated well and appropriately in accordance with the Geneva conventions. The agreement makes reference to the Geneva conventions and that is important for us to recognize.
We changed the arrangement to ensure that Canadian officials could have access to Afghan detention facilities for the purposes of monitoring those conditions and the well-being of Taliban prisoners turned over by the Canadian Forces.
Here again is an important distinction. We are talking not about general conditions within prisons. We are not talking about general treatment of all prisoners turned over to Afghan authorities. The primary responsibility in this entire debate is for prisoners taken captive by Canadian Forces and then turned over. We can be concerned, and should be concerned, about the general conditions, and we seek to improve them. However, our primary responsibility is for detainees captured and turned over by Canadian Forces.
With respect to detaining Taliban prisoners, and the word “detainees” will be heard often in this discussion, we are talking about individuals turned over who were captured in the heat of battle, captured while planting IEDs or making IEDs used to kill or maim Afghan citizens, allied forces or Canadian soldiers. We are not talking about individuals detained at the side of the road for speeding or picked up for shoplifting. We are not talking about nice people.
Canada has a responsibility with respect to allegations of abuse, and we take them seriously. We always do and we always will. When we have had specific allegations of abuse, we have acted quickly and responsibly. We now have a new arrangement that enhances our ability to do just that.
Our mission in Afghanistan to bring about stability and security, to allow us and enable us to do more in the area of reconstruction and development, to work on human rights and governance, to allow us to assist the Afghan people to build capacity so they can do many of these things for themselves is a noble cause to which all members I am sure would agree.
The Canadian Forces are critical to that exercise. The most important part of this mission is to bring about stability and security first, enabling us to do all of these other important initiatives.
The Canadian Forces treat Taliban prisoners humanely, in spite of the atrocities in which they may have committed or been involved. Our forces are trained to do so. They are professional in that regard. This is something that we do from the moment they are captured to the moment they are turned over to Afghan authorities, whether they are captured on the battlefield or in the process of committing some heinous crime.
I want to talk for a moment about the Canadian detainee handling process and how it has evolved since became involved in the Kandahar mission in 2005 under the previous government. I want to explain what it means to be a detainee, when an individual is captured while involved in armed conflict.
It is important to understand, first, that Afghan detainees are not prisoners of war. However, they are treated as if they were prisoners of war. We do not treat them differently, keeping in mind that they do not fit that definition. They do not wear uniforms. They do not adhere to international convention. They do not play by any rules of engagement. They engage in the most awful behaviour imaginable. They involve themselves in efforts to kill and maim their own citizens, allied forces that are there to protect Afghan citizens, and they use the most despicable tactics imaginable.
However, we take steps, as we are required to do and adhere to, to ensure that detainees, Taliban prisoners, are treated humanely. Our policy is to treat detainees, Taliban prisoners, regardless of their legal status under the laws of armed conflict and other international laws, humanely, in a manner consistent with the standard of prisoner of war treatment and certainly consistent with the values and principles that Canadians hold dear.
Who exactly are detainees? This seems to have been muddled somewhat, and I would suggest deliberately in the discussion in the past few weeks. Let me be clear. Detainees are persons who have been captured, who are being held against their will as they continue to wreak havoc in their own country. They came into custody and care of Canadian Forces under a wide variety of circumstances. I have mentioned already that they do not fight conventionally. They do not wear uniforms. They hide in civilian clothing. They often use tactics to deliberately disguise themselves or put themselves in the midst of innocent citizens. Generally, they have committed a hostile act or shown hostile intent toward Canadian Forces, allied forces or their own civilians.
Let us not forget, we are dealing with individuals who, as I said, are using the most heinous tactics. They are throwing acid in the faces of school children in some instances, children who are simply trying to get an education. This is the culture we are trying to change in Afghanistan, to give young people a future, hope, a chance.
Many of the Taliban prisoners have directly or indirectly threatened the lives of Canadians. Many, I hasten to add, have the blood of Canadian soldiers on their hands. These are not nice individuals. As soon as a person is detained, information is collected regarding the threat that individual poses. We question, collect and preserve evidence implicating or linking the person to a crime. We take gunshot residue. We check the individual for materials related to explosives or we have video surveillance that has caught the person in the act of either making or planting bombs.
Usually this information is then provided to Afghan authorities upon transfer so they can continue to detain the individual in accordance with Afghan criminal law. Let us not forget, we are there to help them build their capacity, their justice system, their prisons, their human rights.
Before I continue to speak to the process of Taliban capture and transfer, I want to explain why we transfer.
As was the case with the previous government, it is not the current government's policy in Afghanistan to transfer to third parties. That was the case when the mission began under the previous government. That process changed. To do so would not respect Afghan sovereignty and would potentially complicate our relationship with allies and undermine our ability to help Afghans build capacity and do things for themselves. Nor will Canada build or maintain permanent detention facilities in Afghanistan. Not only would this be costly, but it would also conflict with Afghan sovereignty. What would Canada do with detainees when the mission concluded? We do not bring detainees back to Canada, as some have suggested.
However, and this might be what is most important, none of these action plans would help Afghanistan restore its own judicial system. It is important that appropriate action be taken regarding the detainees, according to the Afghan judicial system. The authorities of that country need support to rebuild a fragile country, so that they can fulfill their detention responsibilities and, perhaps, bring individuals who try to destabilize the country to justice.
ISAF does not have a detention facility. The treatment and the transfer of detainees are national responsibilities. In general, our allies in ISAF have adopted a similar or identical approach to Canada's, which involves transferring detainees to the Afghan government for further legal action. This approach is not without its problems, but nothing is simple in a situation as complex as that in Afghanistan.
Canada has launched substantial capacity-building programs to ensure we are doing all we can to support the Afghan government and its own ownership in providing security and justice to its own people. This is the principal point. We are there to build their capacity, to invest in means, in training, in monitoring and, of course, in efforts to mentor Afghans to do these things for themselves.
These programs have contributed significant resources to improving detention facilities and correction practices;, $132 million overall in that judicial capacity-building, in that prison and penal system and judicial system building.
Our military and our officials are providing training for the Afghan army, police, corrections and other security personnel on human rights. The government has helped to provide much needed equipment and training and much needed investment in infrastructure. Canada is a substantial contributor to the human rights support unit in the Afghanistan ministry of justice.
Our government has made significant contributions to the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission to support its mandate to monitor, protect and promote human rights and to report violations to Afghan authorities. Canada has deployed personnel from Correctional Service Canada to assist, train and mentor Afghan prison personnel.
We do this for obvious reasons. As a government, we place a huge priority on human rights, just as the Canadian people. A huge priority on human rights and basic fairness is implicit in the approach that Canadians take. It is instinctive in all of us in this country that we support human rights and that we support a justice system that is fair, inclusive and listens to all perspectives.
As a lawyer and a former crown prosecutor, this is something that I personally believe in and that I have always personally committed myself to. It is something that I have worked in. It is a core belief that I believe I share with many in the House and certainly in the country.
The Canadian military and officials are working hard and working hand in hand with Afghans in their effort to ensure a fair and humane system is built in their country, a system that will continue to oversee fair treatment of Afghan prisoners and, whether they are captured by Afghan security forces, allies or Canadians, that they will receive fair treatment.
I come back to the point that our primary responsibility is for the detainees transferred by the Canadian Forces, Taliban prisoners for whom we have responsibility.
I want to speak about a system that is in place right now and then work back to the point that we have arrived at. I should add that Canada's efforts have been referred to as the golden standard among allies. The Canadian Forces routinely take Taliban prisoners in the course of their operations because they are active, engaged and outside the wire. The number varies largely dependent upon the insurgent activity; that is, the more they try to kill or attack civilians or our troops, the more contact that we have and the more detainees we capture.
Immediately after being captured, we ensure that the Taliban prisoner is fit to be moved. Our first concern is to provide necessary medical treatment. We also commence collecting information or evidence, forensic material or other physical evidence to substantiate the threat that the individual was posing, and then we turn that evidence over with that individual to the Afghans.
The Taliban prisoner is moved to the Kandahar airfield where our main operating base is located. At the KAF the Taliban prisoner is given further medical attention if needed and is questioned based upon why that individual was detained in the first instance and to properly assess whether they pose a continued threat.
The Taliban prisoner who is not deemed to be a further threat is released from Canadian custody, while those who our task force commander validates as a threat to Canadian Forces or allies or Afghan citizens is then transferred to Afghan authorities. We transfer Afghan prisoners as expeditiously as possible while ensuring due diligence in processing them. The ISAF guideline is to transfer them within 96 hours of capture. While our intent is to transfer within that timeframe, there are occasions where we may be compelled to keep a detainee for longer, such as the need to provide medical treatment or other logistic or operational reasons.
To better support the Afghan government in its justice system, we strive to provide a summary of evidence related to the threat of detainees and whether they can corroborate information to help Afghan authorities support a possible prosecution. They are also questioned with a purpose to gleaning from that interview whether we can prevent further attacks, whether we can interrupt further Taliban activities that are aimed at violence, aimed at threats toward Afghan citizens, communities or the allies.
Individuals are then transferred to Afghanistan's national directorate of security where we usually hand them over to the ministry of justice to await trial. Some are convicted and some are released. Capacity remains a big problem in the justice system there as it is in many departments of the Afghanistan government.
However, in keeping with the improved transfer arrangement and our international obligations, officials notify the ICRC and the Afghan Independent Human Rights Council upon taking a detainee and we now have a monitoring regime in place to help ensure that Canadian transferred detainees are treated appropriately.
Our obligation is to be satisfied that Afghanistan is willing and able to treat detainees humanely. We do a follow-up, we monitor and we ensure compliance. We have Canadians who go into the prisons to perform that task. Further, the Canadian task force commander must be satisfied that there is no substantial grounds for believing there exists a real risk that a detainee would be in danger of being subjected to torture or other forms of mistreatment at the hands of Afghan authorities.
Again, that is a critical point. We are talking about the abuse of Afghans on Afghans. There has never been any proof of wrongdoing by the Canadian Forces in this regard. As I mentioned, we do this through our formal arrangement and monitoring regime but also through the training, mentoring and capacity building that Canada is involved in. We can be proud of those improvements. We continue to seek improvements. That is the principle of the issue. We are there to help Afghans build that capacity and we have made great strides in that regard.
