Debates of Dec. 7th, 2009

The Environment

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government reiterated that it will be speaking with only one voice in Copenhagen. However, not only does Canada's position contradict that of Quebec, it is harmful to Quebec. Its position is contrary to that of the National Assembly and Quebec's environmentalists and businesspeople. The Minister of the Environment even had the nerve to say that his position was not negotiable. And today, Canada was given the fossil award in Copenhagen.

How can the government say to us that its position on climate change is in Quebec's interest when Quebec is unanimously against it?

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, today is the first day of the Copenhagen summit. We want an agreement and Canada will participate actively. Canada will assume its fair share of the responsibility for reaching an agreement. We are delighted that Quebec is part of the delegation. It is unprecedented. Quebec will be participating proactively as part of the Canadian delegation.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that Quebec is not represented by this government in Copenhagen because the Canadian government's position goes against Quebec's interests. It could not be clearer. Just look at the position of this government, which is supported by the oil companies and defends Alberta to the detriment of Quebec.

How can token Quebeckers tell us the opposite in this House?

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, it is not up to the leader of a sovereignist party to tell us how to make the Canadian federation work. That does not make sense.

Having said that, I will remind the House that we are working with targets. At present, the American targets, those of the Obama administration, are comparable to ours. They should stop trying to divide the country. We are taking an industry-by-industry approach and not trying to pit one province against another. That is something the sovereignist leader will never say because Quebec does play an active role, Quebec has taken action and Quebec will be compensated.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of the Environment justifies his greenhouse gas emission targets by saying that if Canada did more than the United States, there would be economic impact without any real environmental improvement, and that if we do less, there could be some economic retaliation.

Does the minister realize that with reduction targets that are lower than those in Europe, Quebec companies, the primary exporters to that market, could be the first victims of potential “retaliatory tariffs”?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we have a simple plan. We want to reach an agreement in principle in Copenhagen, which will serve as a basis for a new international treaty. We also want a binding agreement on all the major emitters. We will have harmonized targets and regulations with the United States. President Obama already announced yesterday that his country has a reduction target of 17%. That is almost the same as the Canadian target. We must continue to coordinate our efforts in the fight against climate change.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have learned that since 1996 no fewer than 1,570 lobbyists paid by industrialists, and in particular by the oil companies in the west, have intervened to convince the government to do as little as possible to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Will the Minister of the Environment acknowledge that his cautious greenhouse gas reduction policy is nothing more than a policy dictated by the oil companies and their lobbyists?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I consulted extensively with everyone involved and with all the provinces leading up to Copenhagen. I invited the provinces to join the official Canadian delegation. That is a first in our country's history. In Copenhagen, the provincial representatives will have considerable support. However, Canada will speak with a single voice in Copenhagen, and that will be the voice of the federal government.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the whole world is demanding action on climate change. That is exactly what the NDP asked for and proposed in its Bill C-311.

Yet the Conservatives are treating Copenhagen the same way the Liberals signed Kyoto: as a big public relations stunt, nothing more. We need action, but the government does not have a plan, nor is it taking concrete action.

When will this government show real environmental leadership for Canada?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, our government, our minister and our Prime Minister will continue to work very hard to produce a solid agreement in Copenhagen. Canada will do its part. We will continue to work with the provinces, with industry and with non-governmental groups to come up with an agreement that will really benefit our environment.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, they are calling us a corrupt petro-state and the dirty old man of the climate world. Our international reputation is at an all-time low because our emissions are growing faster than those of practically any other country in the world, and that is a result of successive government policies.

The government has no plan and no regulations in place. In fact it is making it up as it goes along. It just recently abandoned its foolish intensity targets, and has nothing to replace those with.

When are we going to see some real leadership from this government on climate change? That is what the world wants at Copenhagen.

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I say very directly to my friend, the leader of the NDP, that not a single tonne of carbon is reduced when he runs down Canada and repeats those mischaracterizations of the position of the Canadian government or the actions of our country.

We are committed to working with the Obama administration. We are committed to working with our partners at the UNFCC in Copenhagen to get a strong, effective agreement that delivers the goods for Canada, that delivers the goods for the environment.

Canada, as a rich country, is prepared to do its part and we are looking forward to a successful negotiation in Copenhagen.

Disability and Health Benefits

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the government often speaks of working together. Here is an opportunity, because last week, my colleague, the member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, presented Bill C-487, which would address the situation of long-term disabled workers.

These are workers who are left out in the cold when a company goes bankrupt. It is very tough for them to find alternative work. It is probably not likely for many of them and they are literally left without hope. Here is an opportunity, because it really is our responsibility as legislators to make sure they are in a situation where they can be protected. It is our responsibility.

Will the minister undertake today to support the bill that we put before the House and work with us to get it passed?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I think all of us know that long-tenured workers have had difficulty transitioning into new jobs and often need more long-term training.

We have made unprecedented investments in training, including training specifically for long-tenured workers, to help get Canadians back to work. We have made unprecedented investments to help those who, through no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times and lost their jobs.

The minister will continue to work with all members and all Canadians on achieving real results for these Canadians who need help.

Afghanistan

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in January 2008, Brigadier General Deschamps confirmed under oath that in December of 2006, a Canadian detainee who was turned over to Afghan police was severely beaten.

The Minister of National Defence has claimed repeatedly that there has not been a single proven allegation of detainee abuse. Brigadier General Deschamps and Colonel Noonan are no Taliban dupes.

Will the minister now apologize for misleading the House? Will the government now provide the complete, uncensored documents regarding abuse of Taliban detainees?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, this story is about two and a half years old. It was discussed in the House two and a half years ago. It is not a story about transferring detainees to the prison system; it is a story about a mission in the field.

The patrol was with the Afghan forces. The Afghans took control of the individual. They proceeded to abuse him. Canadian soldiers stepped in and did the right thing, and we should be proud of that.

What it points out is that everyone, from the Prime Minister to the soldier in the field, is doing the right job and will continue to do that.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a story about Brigadier General Joseph Deschamps, who was the chief of staff for operations in Canada's expeditionary forces in January 2008. He said, under oath, that the government was not telling the truth.

The evidence given by Brigadier General Deschamps and Colonel Noonan proves beyond a doubt that there were proven reported incidents of abuse of Canadian-transferred detainees.

Would the Minister of National Defence now apologize for misleading the House and provide complete uncensored documents regarding detainee abuse?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, this was not a Canadian-transferred detainee. This was a person taken control of by the Afghan authorities.

If anybody should apologize, it should be that member, who has called senior officers of the Canadian Forces legally flimsy, negligent, liars, war criminals, and morally weak. I think if anybody should apologize, it is that hon. member.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government is the one saying that these two soldiers are not telling the truth.

During his testimony, Richard Colvin, another of the people it is attacking, stated that his briefing notes included allegations of torture. However, in the heavily-censored documents, these allegations suddenly seem to have been blacked out. It is now clear that the minister himself played a significant role in censoring these documents.

Can the minister explain to Canadians why he tried to hide the truth by censoring these documents?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, that is a bunch of nonsense. I hope the hon. member will get on her feet and apologize to the Minister of National Defence.

There is a three-part test in determining whether information should be withheld from the public on the grounds of international relations, national defence or national security. The test is applied by government officials with subject matter expertise. It is not applied by the minister or the political staff.

The hon. member should get on her feet and apologize right now to this House.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the government apologizes for using the military the way it has, as props for its cover-up, that is the day that the sun will rise and descend on the same day. It is nonsense.

Last week, the bureaucrats claimed the government, the minister, had a role in the redaction of documents. Now the government and that minister are claiming they do not. Who is telling the truth?

The minister knew about the allegations. He tried to cover up. He should explain to Canadians why he continues to hide the truth. Why does he not fess up? His fingerprints are all over those documents.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has been caught out with that outrageous claim before. She has not done the right thing which is to apologize to the Minister of National Defence. She should get up and pay homage to those individuals, those experts within the public service, who have no other interest but the best interest of this country, and protecting men and women in this country. That is who does the redacting. She should get up on her feet and apologize to this House.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence maintains that there is no evidence that Afghan detainees were tortured. Yet Canadian officers have admitted under oath that at least one detainee transferred by Canada was severely beaten by the Afghan police in June 2006. The testimony given by Colonel Noonan and Brigadier General Deschamps clearly contradicts the minister.

Will the Minister of National Defence acknowledge that he misled the House by claiming that the detainees handed over to Afghan authorities were not tortured?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, what the member is saying is completely false.

We have already addressed that. It was addressed in the House two and a half years ago. The simple fact is it was not a detainee transferred by Canadian Forces. It was an Afghan picked up in the process of the joint patrol by Canadian Forces and Afghan forces. When the Canadian soldiers realized that the Afghan detainee was being abused by the Afghan national police, they took action, as we would expect them to. They took the same kind of action that officials at all levels have taken when they have seen that action is necessary.

Canadian Forces members, governments, everybody along the line, has done the proper thing at the proper time.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the army did what it had to do.

The Minister of National Defence is trying to shirk his responsibilities. He said he denied the existence of torture in Afghanistan based on advice he received from his generals and senior officials. After claiming that opposition members were somehow dupes of the Taliban, now the minister has another excuse: Canadian Forces personnel are to blame.

Instead of trying to find a scapegoat, why will the minister not simply tell the truth?