Debates of May 28th, 2009

Canada Pension Plan Investment Board

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Wascana, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder that people like David Dodge, the former governor of the Bank of Canada, say the government is totally unrealistic and dreaming in Technicolor.

Here is another structure issue, pensions. Canadians are worried about the security of their retirement plans, public and private. The CPP alone has lost some $20 billion.

As a gesture of moral leadership, will the minister invite the CPP Investment Board to review its multi-million dollar bonuses, in the context of a recession that is killing the jobs of 350,000 ordinary Canadians?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I did not know we were at the NDP round at this point. That question came from over there, yesterday. I see the member for Wascana is reaching out to his colleagues down the bench.

As I said yesterday, and I will say it for the member for Wascana today, we do not believe in political interference in the Canada pension plan. We will not interfere. I did the three year review with all the provincial and territorial finance ministers earlier this week. We agreed unanimously that we would not politically interfere with the operation of the Canada pension plan.

The Economy

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister said, in these exact words, “If the recession gets deeper, we will do more to help the unemployed and to help people.” Things are already worse, the unemployment rate is skyrocketing, no one can keep count of the numbers of jobs lost in the manufacturing and forest sectors, and the deficit, which only months ago was zero, is now $50 billion. What more does it take?

Will the Prime Minister admit that the crisis is deeper and that he must take action today to propose real support measures for the unemployed and for the economy?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the recession has started. We have changed the rules to give the unemployed more benefits. The deficit has increased because we are giving more to the unemployed, but despite the fact that we are giving more to the unemployed, there is one thing that has not changed: the Bloc Québécois is opposed to these benefits to the unemployed.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Conservatives and Liberals alike, they have nothing to offer to really revive the economy. As for the Bloc Québécois, we have put forward some realistic proposals to help the unemployed by improving the employment insurance program, to compensate Quebec for harmonizing the GST, and to give loan guarantees to the forest industry. His Liberal-backed budget is quite obviously not up to the task.

What is the Prime Minister waiting for before he takes inspiration from the proposals we have made to him?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have improved employment insurance benefits, and the benefits to the population and the unemployed have increased a great deal in recent months, because of the recession and because of our policies. The Bloc Québécois opposed all that. Ours is a realistic position for all the people, unlike the ideological opposition of the Bloc Québécois.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Revenue mislead the House again yesterday by saying that, this week, the government had announced a $500 million injection into training for the unemployed. The minister knows full well that that is the same $500 million announced in January's budget. According to the minister's twisted logic, announcing the same $500 million twice probably adds up to $1 billion.

Instead of trying to pull the wool over Canadians' eyes, will the minister finally put pressure on his government to introduce new measures to help unemployed workers?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and to the Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, in our economic action plan, we added five extra weeks of EI benefits, and we extended the work-sharing program by 14 weeks. We also invested in workforce training so that workers are better trained for the future, while being paid to take the training. Not to mention, we froze EI premium rates. All of these measures were not supported by the Bloc Québécois.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by wrongly claiming that 360 hours of work would allow workers to receive 52 weeks of EI benefits, the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, the Minister of National Revenue, the Prime Minister, in short, every member of this government is trying to fool the public. The minister should make public any figures or studies she has.

Instead of perpetuating misinformation, would it not be more appropriate for the government to help unemployed workers by eliminating the waiting period and setting the eligibility threshold at 360 hours?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and to the Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, nothing is harder than being hopeful when you share the Bloc's ideology. Our action plan is getting results. The proof is that Bloc members are thinking of going back to municipal and provincial politics to help implement our economic action plan.

Canada Pension Plan Investment Board

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the CPP Investment Board published its annual report yesterday, in which it reported losses of $24 billion for 2008. Despite these huge losses, its five executives gave themselves outrageous bonuses: $11 million for 2008 and another $6 million for 2009. We are talking about $24 billion in losses and $17 million in bonuses.

How can the Prime Minister justify this?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Finance has explained several times, that is not a decision that the government makes. The Canada Pension Plan is an independent plan. Members of the board of directors are appointed by both levels of government. It is not a federal government decision.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the CPP board is supposed to protect the savings of Canadians. This is money earned through hard work, and they were counting on it for their retirement. How can the government say it is not its problem?

Those guys just lost $24 billion and they turned around and gave themselves $17 million in bonuses. For losing $24 billion, five guys walk away with $17 million.

How can the Prime Minister stand up and justify this? He should do something about it.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

First, Mr. Speaker, it is important to correct the misinformation in that question. The Canada pension plan is actuarially sound. The benefits to Canadians are guaranteed for many decades to come.

The board is responsible independently for remuneration for the management of the plan. I noticed, by the way, that the board in fact did drop a total compensation for its executives by 31% last year, but that is a board decision, not a government decision.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, other countries are doing something about these fat cat bonuses and the Canadian government simply will do nothing about it.

We have the Prime Minister essentially endorsing here today $17 million of the money of Canadians going into the pockets of executives who just lost $24 billion. How can that make any sense whatsoever? This is on top of a huge deficit that has not produced any results in the economic recovery yet that could possibly be measurable or satisfactory to Canadians.

Will the government take responsibility for anything or is it just washing its hands and walking away?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Once again, Mr. Speaker, the federal government does not make these decisions. This is a joint body of the provincial and federal governments, which is administered at arm's-length and independent of politics.

When it comes to taking credit for things, it seems to me, in listening to the House today, that the NDP is once again seeming to take credit for Liberal questions in question period. The last time the NDP hooked up with the Liberals it did not work out too well. It may want to rethink that strategy.

Minister of Finance

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance has proven once again that he is not up to the job. It was not so long ago that he left Ontario with a surprise deficit of $6 billion. Now, his incompetence has turned a budget surplus into a $50 billion deficit in just a few months.

Will the Minister of Finance take responsibility for once, admit his incompetence and step down?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, this is coming from a party with a hypocritical position. That position is even noted today by what is going to be my new favourite paper, the Toronto Star. It says:

It's hard to take their outrage seriously. In January, when [the government] announced the projected 2009 federal deficit...both the Liberals and NDP accused [it] of not doing enough....The Liberals voted for the budget anyway, all the while attacking the Conservative government for (a) spending too much and (b) not spending enough....Now...the opposition parties continue with their internally inconsistent attacks.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has just proven that he is capable of reading words, but he has yet to prove that he can read numbers. Just 36 days ago, the Minister of Finance assured Canadians that the numbers were “on track”.

Now he is leading us into the worst deficit this country has ever seen.

The Minister of Finance does not know how to count, and Canadians cannot count on him, the Conservative Prime Minister, or the Conservative government, especially when it comes to public money.

Is that not the case?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is not right at all. In fact, we can learn from experience. One of the experiences we had in the country was what Liberal governments did to the sick, the elderly and public education in the 1990s, when they balanced the budget on the backs of the provinces. Hospitals were closed. People were out of work. Employment benefits were down. That is what they were proud of: balancing the budget on the backs of the provinces.

We are not doing that. We are increasing transfers to the provinces. We are working in partnership with the provinces, not demeaning the sick and elderly.

The Economy

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, 37 days ago, the Minister of Finance knew the forestry industry was in trouble. He knew EI was up. He knew the auto industry was in the tank. Thirty-seven days ago, the minister said, “I'm staying with our budget projection. We're on track”.

I would like to ask the minister a very simple question, which he has still not answered. How could he have made such a terrible statement a mere 37 days ago with respect to the financial situation in Canada?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I pay attention to the questions from one of the leading Canadian experts in deficits, having brought Ontario through that period from 1990-95. By 1995, the people of Ontario were paying $1 million an hour in interest only on the debt accumulated during that time, creating a permanent structural deficit in the second largest government in the country.

Here is another hypocritical position of the member for Toronto Centre. He said, “if we have a deficit now, at the federal level, is that going to be the personal fault of the government. I don't think so and I don't think that's an intelligent position and no reasonable person—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

The hon. member for Toronto Centre.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am an amateur in this regard. The minister—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!