Debates of Oct. 18th, 2011

Democracy in Ukraine

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Chair, my colleague mentioned earlier that there was a culture of intimidation in some of the old style Soviet regimes.

I have to relate a story about the 2004 failed election that I was at where there was president-elect Yanukovych, the same person, and the supporting regime to support his election and to maintain the election. In the period of time that I was there, I was followed by the secret police. There was a pool of blood in my room to intimidate me. There were bowls of fruit to scare me, with the poisoning scares that were going on. Telephone calls were quitting in the middle of conversations. Telephone calls were going silent at one end. It was constant. Why? It was because I was reporting from Independence Square back to Canada, telling Canadians what the realities of the situation were there.

It was a culture of intimidation then and it looks as though this culture of intimidation is returning once again.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Chair, it is obvious that the hon. member has had the opportunity to see what it can be like. He also was present to see the hopes and aspirations of the people. It is difficult to hold back those hopes and aspirations except by using tactics that revert back to the old days when people were suppressed, when people could not express themselves and when they could not enjoy the freedom to speak, to assemble and to make their thoughts known. However, they have tasted that freedom. They know what it is about and it would be wrong and perilous to try to revert back to the old system.

The people of Ukraine must be given the opportunity to go forward, to experience the benefits of democracy and experience what a true judicial system can be like where one can actually have charges that are not trumped up but charges that are based on fact, have a foundation and are presented in a fair way where one can defend oneself and be presumed innocent.

We look forward to actions being taken by the present authorities to fix what was wrong by doing what is right.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Chair, in the House of Commons, when we want to silence the opposition we do it through connecting better with the Canadian public. We do it through better debate in the House of Commons. We do it through having positions that are favoured by more people than the opposition. That is the way we do it here in a democratic country.

That is why, when we see what is happening in Ukraine and we see a former prime minister go through a completely bogus set of charges, trial and end up in jail, we know it is an extremely serious situation that is being faced. In fact, this situation is pivotal to the long-term future of Ukraine. It cannot just be forgotten. If this action that has been taken is not reversed, I do not see, when it comes to the European Union, the United States and Canada, where we can just back off and pretend it did not happen. We believe in democracy. We just cannot do that or we fail the people of Ukraine and we fail our democratic principles.

How important does the member think this situation is? What kind of implications could there be, and probably will be, if these bogus charges, these arrests, of not only the former prime minister, are not dealt with in a way that is more befitting a democracy? What could the possible long-term implications be for Ukraine?

[The Deputy Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Before I go to the member for Souris—Moose Mountain, I would kindly remind all members to pay attention to the Chair during questions and answers so that assistance with timing can be given.

The hon. member for Souris—Moose Mountain, a short answer please.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and we will certainly be watching for your signal.

This is a very serious matter. It is a matter that, if the course is not changed, will work to the detriment of the existing leadership and certainly to the Ukrainian people. The people need to be reassured. Their trust needs to be regained. They need to see some progressive steps taken that will not cause them to revert to where they were, but to go forward. I think the aspirations of the young people especially and Ukrainians in general is that they not be repressed any further.

I would suggest that this course needs to be reversed and, by putting pressure on various levels by various people, this can yet be changed.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Chair, just as many Canadians, and, I would suspect, everyone in the House, I am deeply concerned about the politically motivated persecution of Ukrainian opposition members, including the former prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko.

We heard about hope in the Orange Revolution of 2004, as was mentioned here a number of times, by Yulia Tymoshenko and Viktor Yushchenko, who were here. We heard the message of hope and I, being partly of Ukrainian descent, was very happy and pleased that finally Ukraine was having a chance to step into the community of world nations as a true and equal partner.

Then, in 2010, the last presidential election was narrowly won by Viktor Yanukovych.

I was in Ukraine very briefly this summer. I spoke to family members and others and there seems to be a sense of discouragement in the country, especially with the taking of power by Yanukovych.

In doing some research, I found an article in The Guardian that illustrates what is going on. What is going on is that a level of corruption has permeated that society for many years. The journalist stated:

Back in 2004, Yanukovych had been caught, embarrassingly, trying to fix the last presidential poll.

The hon. member spoke about his experience being there during the election.

The journalist went on to say that just before the 2010 election he had dinner with some aides to Yanukovych who tried to convince him that Yanukovych was a democrat and a passionate European who believed that Ukraine's geopolitical destiny lay with the European Union, et cetera. He further stated:

Eighteen months later things look rather different. The decision by a Kiev court today to jail Tymoshenko for seven years for abuse of office over a controversial 2009 gas deal with Russia is an unambiguous signal. It says that Yanukovych does not really care what the EU thinks about him. It also confirms that Yanukovych's critics have been saying for some time that under his leadership the country is sliding towards Russian-style “managed democracy” and autocratic rule.

The article went on to state:

Since taking power, Yanukovych has rapidly reversed the fragile democratic gains of the Orange Revolution.

We must remember that it was fragile, it was new.

He has put a squeeze on the country's independent media, with TV now in the hands of a bunch of pro-regime oligarchs. Nosy opposition journalists — such as the investigative reporter Vasyl Klymentyev — have disappeared. In parliament, Yanukovych's Party of the Regions has, using dubious means, achieved a majority. And politically motivated prosecutions have been brought against Tymoshenko and other senior members of her bloc....

There are rumours that following her conviction Yanukovych, having proved his point, will look for some kind of deal. One version is that the charges against her will be “decriminalised”; another that she will be released on payment of a large fine...

But what is clear is that the case was designed to nobble Tymoshenko and to cripple the pro-western, anti-Yanukovych forces she represents.

She is now unable to participate in Ukraine's next two elections: parliamentary ones in 2012, and the next presidential election in 2015. That, presumably, was the idea. Thousands of her supporters took to the streets of Kiev today, protesting noisily against Yanukovych's heavy-handed tactics, reminiscent of Ukraine's backroom politics a decade ago.

The trial bears comparison with that of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the Russian oligarch who fell out with Vladimir Putin.

We are seeing a pattern.

In some of the research I found, it appears that there is a desire among opposition parties to decriminalize parts of the criminal code that allowed this conviction of ex-prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko. However, there is no agreement by them as to how this should be done. The leader, Ivan Kirilenko of the Batkivshchyna Party, wants the bill to be re-examined at second reading. If this were to happen, President Yanukovych could then tell European politicians in Brussels that the question of opposition prosecution has been resolved. We need to remember that he is going to Brussels soon and he would like to put on a good face.

Nikolai Martynenko, leader of the NU-NS party, supports Kirilenko and demands that the bill be examined. However, the majority, which is the Party of Regions, and its leader, Alexander Efremov, did not come out with a definite position. In fact he said it would set a precedent, so he is using political spin. Remember that this is Yanukovych's party. This is obviously very disturbing.

A website for an organization called the Eastern Partnership Community is an analytical portal where ideas about what is happening are debated. A journalist by the name of Valery Kalnysh who is chief of the political desk at the Ukrainian edition of the daily Kommersant alludes to the fact that she may be guilty, but he says he doubts whether it was necessary to put her on trial and drag her through the courts for such a slip-up, if in fact, there was one.

He says that the case is clear. He says that the current government is not interested in showing that Ukraine is a state of law, and that Yanukovych is not sending the message that the hand of justice will reach every criminal regardless of how highly they are placed. His conclusion is that the Tymoshenko case is a show trial against the opposition. He also says he could mention about 30 people from Tymoshenko's circle who are in custody now, or have the prosecutor's office breathing down their necks. Meanwhile, there is only one similar case under way concerning a politician from the Party of Regions, which is the majority.

It appears as we look within at what is happening that this is a pattern not just affecting the former prime minister, but an attempt to silence the opposition especially coming up to the next election.

Yulia Mostova, chief editor of the weekly Dzerkalo Tyzhnya, says that the Tymoshenko case is the manifestation of a Ukrainian national tradition, the idea that every ruling class has followed this principle of persecuting the opposition since 1991. She says the attack on Yulia Tymoshenko is nothing new, that everyone who follows Ukrainian politics has been expecting it. It does not come as a surprise to those who have been watching this closely, including journalists. She also says that the scale of the actions which have been brought against the former head of government is disproportionate to the offences committed, in her opinion.

What should we do? A number of us have received recommendations from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. It proposes a strategy for our government. Any action by the Government of Canada must not result in the isolation of Ukraine. We cannot do that. In regard to the trade agreement, we should make it very clear that we would not support an agreement if the human rights of a former prime minister are violated. However, we should not isolate the country.

We should refocus CIDA's strategy. According to the congress, it should focus on supporting Ukrainian NGOs that establish and strengthen political and civic organizations, safeguard elections and promote citizen participation, openness and accountability in government.

Also we should be calling for support for independent media. A number of members have outlined the persecution of the media and that reporters have disappeared. It reminds me of a book I read by a Russian journalist just before she was killed in Moscow for exposing the Putin government and all it was up to.

We have a role to play as parliamentarians and as the Government of Canada to support our Prime Minister in calling for swift action on this case. Other than that, we should not isolate Ukraine. We have to work with our brothers and sisters in Ukraine to finally bring a democratic government to their country.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his speech.

The NDP is very concerned about the political persecution and arrest of members of the Ukrainian opposition. The members of the NDP are asking the government to ensure that human rights are respected in Ukraine.

Can the hon. member tell us how this situation is affecting Canadians of Ukrainian descent?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for her question. As a Canadian citizen of Ukrainian and Russian origin, like many Ukrainians here in Canada, I have family there. We have very close relationships with friends and family and it affects us because we are in contact with them. As I said earlier, what is happening there is a bit discouraging. The power is now in the hands of a president who does not represent all of Ukraine but, rather just the eastern region, which is under the influence of Russia. We see it in the country's parliament. Members who come from that region cannot even speak Ukrainian. They give their speeches in Russian. We are monitoring the situation very closely and should continue to do so. We should support Ukraine's citizens so that one day they will be able to have the same rights that we enjoy here in Canada.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I strongly believe that we Canadians, we parliamentarians on both sides of the House, and I am really sad that there are no members on the Liberal side here, owe--

[The Deputy Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order. I would remind all members that we do not comment on who is or is not in the chamber during debate.

The hon. member for Mississauga East—Cooksville.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I apologize.

We all owe the Ukrainians support in their democratic process. They got their independence 20 years ago. After centuries of struggle, finally they got their independent country. They have to go through a difficult process, but with the support of democratic countries around the world they can succeed. This is what we owe them. We owe them our support.

Of course, we should work here with the Ukrainian Canadian Congress and with the leaders in the political arena in Ukraine to ensure that the remnants of the totalitarian Soviet-style system are shaken up.

If the hon. member on the other side could comment on this, I would really appreciate it.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am sure the member knows that we have a monument in Canada for victims of totalitarian communism. We know that the Ukrainians as a people suffered under a forced famine where goods and food were taken from them and sent to Europe to the Germans. We have seen documentation. My family suffered. That was a horrendous time in history. Millions of people died at the hands of the Soviet regime. Even prior to the Soviet regime, my father grew up in the Vinnytsia area of Ukraine. My grandfather was a middle-class farmer. Secondary schooling was in Russian. The language that my father mastered, although he spoke Ukrainian as a child, was Russian. He became a military officer in the czarist army. There was that pressure even then.

As my colleague mentioned, finally Ukraine had a chance to break out of the yoke of repression. We need to support this movement regardless of our origins so Ukraine can peacefully transition into a free and democratic state. I implore all of us to offer our support in any way we can.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for his excellent speech. It was very inspiring. I would like to ask him a question about the young generation of Ukrainians. I would like to hear his opinion. Does he think that it would be a good idea to encourage more young Ukrainians to come to university here, to come and see Canada and its democratic institutions? I would like to hear what he has to say about what kind of effect he thinks this might have on Ukraine's population and future.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his question. Two years ago, a Ukrainian student worked for my office. He came from Ukraine and we stayed in contact. He is now in the United States.

This is important. Why? People, especially young people, in Ukraine are discouraged. They do not want to be part of the political process. Why not? Because becoming a member of parliament takes millions and millions of dollars. Bribes have to be paid. There is widespread corruption. As a result, the youth are not interested in politics. If more young people came to Canada to learn how things worked, they could take our values back home with them and try to rebuild their country.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Chair, in his presentation the member acknowledged that it is a very serious situation when a former prime minister and many others are faced with bogus charges and dealt with in what really is not much of a justice system, at least in the procedure that was taken, and imprisoned. He also said that the right thing for Canada to do is not to isolate Ukraine.

If the current regime in Ukraine will not reverse the actions it has taken, what practical next step would the member see Canada taking to deal with the situation so that Ukraine is not isolated?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Chair, that is a very good question.

The Ukrainian Canadian Congress has some suggestions which the hon. member has probably read.

Apart from the suggestions, we need to maintain our ties. We need to maintain parliamentary exchanges. We need to have this conversation. It is very difficult to change a regime from the outside, but we need to morally support those who would like to make that change from the inside. I think that is our role.

Should we come out strong against policies? The concern is that we cannot say that Ukraine will be isolated until it cleans up its act. It is a difficult situation.

I will not read them, but there are a number of suggestions from the congress. We could look at them and work with our Ukrainian Canadian friends to come up with a strategy that would continue to involve communication.

My colleague mentioned young people. It is an excellent idea to include many young people in this communication so that they could see there is hope. Then when they enter politics, it will not be about getting involved in corruption and seeing who could be the most corrupt to come out with the best.

There is a future. We must have hope. We are all here because we believe there is hope.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I rise this evening to participate in this important debate on the serious democratic situation in Ukraine. As others have stated before me, this is an important issue, and over the last months Canada has not shied away from making its views known on the situation.

Canada has long been a special partner to Ukraine. For over 20 years we have supported and co-operated with Ukraine as it sought to develop into a free, democratic and prosperous country.

Against this backdrop, I and all Canadians cannot help but find the recent conviction of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko to be very troubling. The apparent political motivation behind this act would seem to be not only to eliminate the individual who came so close to defeating current President Yanukovych in the last presidential elections in 2010, but to intimidate and eliminate all political opposition.

I will be sharing my time with the amazing member for Edmonton Centre.

Is this to eliminate and intimidate all political opposition? Those are strong words, and I acknowledge that, but the indications are there for all of us to see.

Sadly, the Yulia Tymoshenko trial and conviction is just the tip of the iceberg. Over the last year, a series of arrests and intimidating actions have been carried out against former opposition members.

I was honoured to be a member of the Canadian delegation that went there in October 2010, and we sensed that things were happening. We met with a number of people, and a lot of concern was expressed to us.

While no one can argue against the fact that it is essential to tackle the scourge of corruption that so cripples Ukraine's economic and social development, it must be tackled in a transparent manner that respects the proper judicial process and the rule of law.

This would appear not to be the case. The prosecutions have been very selective, focusing extensively on leading members of the opposition. There are clear signs that the court proceedings fall far short of internationally recognized norms of fairness, transparency and due process. All of this is deeply distressing to the Ukrainian people, who so courageously stood up against political corruption in 2004, challenging the presidential election results and forcing the election to be re-held.

The Orange Revolution, as it came to be known, marked a turning point in the newly independent Ukraine's democratic development. We cannot allow the democratic gains won through those brave civil actions to be taken away.

Canada has proudly supported the Ukrainian people as they rebuilt their society after 70 years of Soviet rule. Canada was the first western country to recognize Ukraine's independence in 1991, and we have provided significant assistance since then as part of our special partnership. We have done so out of principle, but also out of friendship. Ours is a deep friendship, rooted in shared values and shared history.

Canada is home to more than 1.2 million Ukrainian Canadians, who collectively have contributed so much to building Canada. I am one of those Canadians whose grandparents came from Ukraine about 115 years ago. I am a proud Canadian and proud of my Ukrainian heritage. I am proud that I was with the Prime Minister in Ukraine.

We owe it to our friends in Ukraine to support them as they work to build a new future.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Chair, my colleague from British Columbia highlighted in his presentation the absolute need for the judicial system to be separate from the executive branch of government.

I would like to ask my colleague what steps he believes the Canadian government could take now to put further pressure on the Ukraine government to start respecting human rights and to make some of the changes that are necessary?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the NDP member across the way. It is not often that everybody in the House will row in the same direction. That is happening tonight, and I know it is going to be happening in the months to follow as we are all committed to seeing democracy, respect for human dignity and the rule of law in Ukraine.

Canada joins many other countries, as do we as parliamentarians. We are world leaders in that respect, working together and challenging Ukraine to do what is right and to be transparent and democratic. As we look at countries throughout the world and the history of the world, we see that countries that are based on democracy and fundamental principles of the rule of law can prosper. If a country does not respect the rule of law and its citizens, that country will not prosper. It is that simple.

We want to see a positive future for Ukraine. We will continue to pull together as parliamentarians and work with other international partners to encourage the Ukraine judiciary to make sure things are done properly and with transparency. The situation with Yulia Tymoshenko hopefully will be reviewed and the right thing will be done, because the opposition cannot be treated in that way.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Chair, it has been a tough time for Ukraine and the people of Ukraine since the fall of the wall and the division of the former Soviet Union. I think it has been more difficult for Ukraine than it has been for some of its neighbouring countries, such as Poland, the Czech Republic, or the Baltic states. Certainly Ukraine has had a more difficult time. Progress has been slower.

There was a lot of hope with the Orange Revolution and what has happened since, but now we see a reversal in the situation. To me it is one thing to have slow progress, but it is another thing to have a reversal. It must be extremely disheartening for the people in Ukraine to see this happening. It certainly is for people of Ukrainian descent. I am sure it is for relatives and friends, and it is in my constituency, where there is a large population of people from Ukrainian backgrounds.

This reversal truly is a pivotal time in the history of Ukraine. We do not know where things are going to go from there. Would the member agree that the reversal is certainly quite a different situation from slow progress?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would agree that it has been a reversal. Many of us in this Parliament have Ukrainian interns working in our offices. I have asked them if they expected this to happen. They said no. They said they had been watching it closely but had no idea that this was going to be happening. When we were there a year ago, there was no idea that this kind of serious situation would be arising.

We encourage the Ukrainian judiciary to do what is right. The world is encouraging them. There were letters written from the Canada-Ukraine Parliamentary Friendship Group, from the government, and I am sure from many in this Parliament encouraging them to do the right thing. Now we find Yulia Tymoshenko sentenced to seven years in jail.

She cannot serve. That is just not right. We encourage the right thing to be done.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise and address the House tonight on this important subject, that of democracy in Ukraine.

The events unfolding in Ukraine right now with respect to the arrest, trial and conviction of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko are of deep concern to me, all members and the Government of Canada. This blatant and politically motivated persecution is very troubling and may have serious consequences for Canada's relationship with the Government of Ukraine.

The Prime Minister has written directly to the President of Ukraine indicating his deep concern with this situation. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has stated that the conduct and prosecution of this case by Ukrainian authorities undermines the development of their democratic institutions.

We in this House all agree that a strong and vibrant political opposition and a robust and fully independent judiciary are essential to a Ukraine that is prosperous, democratic and free.

Please allow me to relay to this House some examples of where it appears due process was flagrantly violated in Ms. Tymoshenko's case.

One of the more startling aspects of this trial has been the disregard of Ms. Tymoshenko's right to legal defence by the Constitutional Court. The Constitution of Ukraine, the most important legal document in that country, states:

Everyone shall have the right to legal assistance.

and:

Everyone shall be free to choose the defender of his rights.

However, in the very first trial hearings on July 15, Ms. Tymoshenko was denied this basic right.

The judge began the proceedings without asking her legal team to enter. As she rose to protest this action, she was interrupted by the judge and forced to leave the hearings “for violation of court proceedings”.

The proceedings then continued without her, and she was deprived of even the right to defend herself against charges.

This type of disregard of her basic rights is simply unacceptable.

The Criminal Code of Ukraine also states that the judge must ensure both the prosecution and the defence have adequate time to review evidence and prepare for court proceedings. The materials in the case against Ms. Tymoshenko, collected from pretrial investigation, amounted to approximately 5,000 pages. Her defence team was given between two and three days to review the documents. This again appears to be a flagrant violation of the Constitution of Ukraine, the principles of the rule of law, and Ms. Tymoshenko's right to a fair and reasonable defence.

Ms. Tymoshenko's lawyers were also prevented from speaking with her after she was arrested on August 5, thereby preventing them from building or implementing any further measures for her legal defence.

I should add that I am not presuming guilt or innocence in this case, but rather expressing my serious concerns with the apparent glaring absence of due process and fairness in this trial.

Ukrainians and the Ukrainian diaspora around the globe are not pleased with the actions of their government. Ukrainians have always been freedom-loving people, and they have a strong democratic tradition.

We witnessed this seven years ago during the Orange Revolution, when Ukrainians took to the streets in droves to protest what they knew to be an unfair and undemocratic election. In fact, the origins of democratic principles in Ukraine date back to the early 18th century. In 1710, the first Constitution of Ukraine was written by Pylyp Orlyk, and in April 2010, the 300th anniversary of this constitution was celebrated. By comparison, at 144 years Canada is not a very old democracy; as a consequence, we as Canadians sometimes take for granted the freedoms and privileges, as well as the rights and responsibilities, of living in such a stable, safe and prosperous country.

Not all the peoples of the world are so fortunate. For many years the people of Ukraine lived under the oppressive tyranny of the former Soviet Empire and the oppression of the Nazis, and endured the senseless horror of the Holodomor genocide.

Today the people of Ukraine are striving to build a prosperous, robust and healthy democratic state. They can count on Canada to stand up for their freedom.

Our foreign policy is a principled one. It is rooted in the defence of human freedom and in those things that elevate us as human beings: freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law. We will not back down in defending and promoting these ideals for all nations and all peoples around the world.

Ukrainian Canadians have contributed much to our nation in all aspects of society, from the arts to politics and from business to sport. They have helped to build the Canada we know today, and we are all the better for it.

As Ukraine moves toward a free, open and just society, Canada will always be there to help. We will not turn a blind eye to the proceedings against Ms. Tymoshenko; our hope, however, is that our ideals, upon which our policies are based, will be shared by Ukraine.

We take comfort in the words of Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, whose words provided the inspiration for Ukrainian independence:

Strive and you will triumph, for God is on your side. The rewards are glory, truth, and that most sacred of things, freedom.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his speech.

Essentially, I would like to ask him the question I asked earlier of my colleague from British Columbia Southern Interior regarding younger Ukrainians.

What steps could Canada take to help the younger generations gain a better understanding of democracies abroad including western democracies, such as Canada's? Perhaps we could encourage young Ukrainians to come and study in Canada and see what could be done to improve democracy in their own country when they return.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her question.

We have a Ukrainian intern in my office right now, Oleksandr. Perhaps my colleague has one as well. There are a number of them here. We hope they will learn from what they see here. For all that we may bicker in the House, back and forth about a variety of things, we are a model of co-operation and democracy for people around the world.

In fact, my colleague and her colleagues across the way have had their own orange revolution recently in Canada, and we congratulate them on their success.

That is something from which we can learn. We may disagree on things, but there are the basic principles of democracy and the basic principles of people making the difference, people of all ages, and it does come from young people. I am clearly in the second half of my life. My colleague is clearly hardly into the first half of her life, and we do count on young people. We do count on younger members of Parliament to lead by example and we want to pass on that example to young people from places like Ukraine to follow our example. They have been at it longer than we have, but we have something to offer and I believe my colleague recognizes that.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask my colleague about the long term affects on democratic development in the Ukraine. I would like to ask his view on what the situation is now and how he feels it will impact the development of democracy in the Ukraine.