Debates of Nov. 24th, 2011

Copyright Modernization Act

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Madam Speaker, sometimes I wish more Canadians were tuned in to this debate. It has been thoughtful, knowledgeable, constructive and legitimate in almost every way. This is exactly how Parliament is supposed to work, testing the merits of legislation with meaningful debate of substance and quality.

I want to ask my colleague about the fullness of the legislation. He began his remarks by going back to the early days of copyright. We only revisit the Copyright Act once every 30-some odd years. We will create legislation that will last another generation and we do not even have any idea what innovations and changes might take place in that period of time.

Is it not an obligation and duty of parliamentarians to ensure the legislation is fully gestated before we foist it on an unsuspecting industry sector? If it is full of so many inadequacies and holes, as we pointed out, do we not owe it to Canadians to do a more thorough and robust job in testing the merits of—

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

The hon. member for York South—Weston.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Madam Speaker, that is a very apt question. Absolutely, we owe it to the Canadian public, consumers of the material and content providers. As newspaper and television broadcasters will say, content is king and the providers of that content need to be protected. The legislation does not do that. It does not protect their income streams, which is the issue.

The member is absolutely right. Nobody could guess what the Internet would entail when legislation was drafted in the 1920s to protect artists from radio stations using their material for free. We cannot anticipate whether we will have implants in our heads that will broadcast propaganda to us in the next decade, but we can and should ensure that what we design does the job for today, and this one does not.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

The hon. member for Louis-Hébert for a quick question.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for his speech, specifically the fact that he illustrated the need for compromise in moving forward with copyright.

I would like him to say a few words about the possible compromise that could be satisfactory with regard to today's technologies.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Madam Speaker, I believe the comprise solution is one in which the income stream of the content creator is protected. We have traditionally in our country found ways for the distribution mechanism to be the method by which content creators have been compensated. That is the method we should use now.

I am not talking about a tax or somehow making it impossible for Canadians to continue to do the things they are doing now. However, I want to ensure that when we use material that is provided by Canadian artists and professionals in the content-creation business, they in fact can continue to earn a living in Canada. One of the ways to accomplish that is to ensure the distribution mechanisms, as they evolve, continue to provide them with incomes. If that means there needs to be a 1¢ per month levy on an ISP, maybe that is something at which we should look. Nobody has had the opportunity to look at those kinds of issues because we are faced with a bill that talks about locks and only about prevention, not trying to create a mechanism where individuals will be properly compensated.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak in opposition to Bill C-11, Copyright Modernization Act. The legislation seeks to bring long overdue changes that would bring Canada in line with advances in technology and current international standards.

We know copyright is a highly complex issue that features competing demands from stakeholders in the artistic, academic, business, technology and consumer rights communities. However, I would argue that the bill does not do a good job of properly balancing these competing demands.

Before delving into some of the reasons why I oppose Bill C-11, I would first like to briefly review some of the main points that the bill seeks to accomplish.

Bill C-11 would create powerful new anti-circumvention rights for content owners through the use of digital locks. The punishment for circumventing digital locks would include fines of up to $1 million and five years in jail. This is concerning as it could mean that consumers are prohibited from using content for which they already paid. It would also have implications for those enrolled in long distance education courses.

While the bill would create limited exceptions to the fair dealing provision of the copyright modernization act for people such as educators, I believe these exceptions do not adequately recognize creators' rights and in fact create new ways for consumers to circumvent compensating creators for the use of their work. What the bill would not do would be to deal with the issue of extending a private copying levy, as has been the case in the past for cassettes, DVDs and CDs.

Why do New Democrats oppose the bill? Put simply, New Democrats believe Canadian copyright laws can and should strike a proper balance between the right of creators to receive fair compensation for their work and the right of consumers to have reasonable access to content.

As it stands, Bill C-11 means millions of dollars in lost revenues for artists. New Democrats will consider all possible amendments to the bill that would create a more fair royalty system for creators.

We propose removing sections of the copyright modernization act that make criminals out of everyday Canadians who break digital locks for personal, non-commercial use. We want to avoid the same kind of excessive lawsuits against ordinary citizens that we have heard so much about in the United States.

I have been amazed by the number of Canadians who are engaged on the issue of copyright reform. Thousands upon thousands of Canadians have written letters and emails about the copyright modernization act, and this is a wonderful thing. My office has received hundreds of letters and emails from constituents on Bill C-11. The vast majority have serious reservations about the bill, calling it flawed to the core.

I would like to take a few moments to quote directly from some of the emails that I have received, which many members in the House have also received. One email states:

As a Canadian, I am both concerned and disheartened by how easily my rights are trumped by the overriding and all encompassing protection for digital locks contained in this legislation.

The anti-circumvention provisions included in Bill C-11, unduly equip corporate copyright owners and distributors in the music, movie and video game industries with a powerful set of tools that can be utilized to exercise absolute control over Canadians' interaction with media and technology and may even undermine Canadians' constitutional rights.

I would also like to quote from an email I received from an author living in my riding in New Westminster--Coquitlam--Port Moody. Annabel writes:

I support modernizing the Copyright Act, but Bill C-11, an Act to amend the Copyright Act, proposes to cut back on rights that are the underpinning of writers' survival. There are more than 30 new exceptions affecting rightsholders. Many of these new exceptions take away or reduce the ability I currently have to control my work and to be compensated for it.

Among the most troubling of these exceptions is the extension of “fair dealing”, (which means uncompensated use) to “education”. If much more of the work of creators can be used for free and educational settings, the educational market is at risk of being legislated away. For Canadian writers and publishers, this will be devastating. At a time when the government has declared the goal of having more Canadian history taught in our classrooms, it is surely counterproductive to harm the market for the creators and publishers of that history.

I am not asking for anything new or anything more. I am asking that my longstanding property rights not be severely limited in C-11, so that I can continue to make my cultural and economic contributions.

The majority of emails I received were copied to the offices of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Industry and the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Based on the number of emails that my office has received from people who are opposed to Bill C-11, I would estimate that the offices of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Industry and the Minister of Canadian Heritage have each received upward of 100,000 emails from Canadians who have serious concerns about the implications of the copyright modernization act.

However, it is not just Canadians that the Conservatives are ignoring on this issue. They are also ignoring expert opinions raised in committee and the findings of their own copyright consultations in 2009. As a result, we have before us today flawed legislation that will end up doing more harm than good.

I would like to ask the government to seriously consider amendments to its copyright modernization act that would create a more fair balance between the right of creators to be fairly compensated for their work and the right of consumers to have reasonable access to copyrighted content. Amendments should also be considered that would create a more fair royalty system for creators.

Finally, I would like to thank the hundreds of constituents who have written to me about this issue, and I encourage them and all Canadians to stay engaged on this important issue.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Speaker, I notice that on this side of the House, all my colleagues seem to have worked very hard and done a lot of research on this subject. I am wondering about something and I would like my colleague to give me his impression.

Digital locks to limit access have somewhat the same effect as if someone published a book where the ink might disappear after 30 days. It is not particularly logical. And yet this is the kind of bill that my colleagues from the Neolithic age on the other side have presented.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, that is at the heart of the bill. It has not been thought through enough to realize there are some serious flaws in its practical application. The practical application of how this is to work has not been thought through.

As he quite rightly pointed out, the intent of the industry would be to have the artists or the creators re-initiate or somehow reapply in a very brief time. That is impractical. This will not encourage the use of art and music and the written form in a way that is practical in distributing to our community and supporting the needs of what we would call fair, balanced, creative creation and access to consumers in a fair and reasonable manner.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Madam Speaker, my colleague made reference to the sheer volume of constituents who had contacted his office over this very bill. It is an indication of the importance that Canadians sense around our Copyright Act and the fact that we had better get it right because we are going to have to live with this for a long, long time.

The innovation and the change that has been happening so rapidly in the last few years is going to continue to grow exponentially, yet we are possibly putting in place legislation that we believe is inadequate and outdated to deal with what we have to deal with today. For heaven's sake, what could be happening a year from now?

Did we consult the right people? Did we have an exhaustive consultation process around the country and did we accommodate the legitimate concerns brought forward by those people we did consult?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, in fact, that is the case. As elected officials, we are deliberating over a piece of legislation that will be in effect for a long time and will have application potentially for at least a generation or longer. It is incumbent upon us in the House to do a wide range of consultation, to consult far and wide, and listen to as much input as we can. That is one of the shortcomings of the government here in terms of ignoring expert opinions, many of which were raised at committee, and even by the findings in its own copyright consultation in 2009.

I would like to quote one individual. Michael Geist is a renowned technology commentator and he puts it succinctly when he says:

The foundational principle of the new bill remains that anytime a digital lock is used -- whether on books, movies, music, or electronic devices -- the lock trumps virtually all other rights.

This means that both the existing fair dealing rights and Bill C-11’s new rights all cease to function effectively so long as the rights holders place a digital lock on their content or device. The importance of consultation is needed and then once we get that consultation, we need to listen to that advice.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are looking at a bill to which an overwhelming majority of the groups that will be affected have objected. Only the big corporations that distribute content seem to be pleased with it. Journalists, artists, authors, new media specialists and copyright law specialists, all these groups object to the bill as it stands. Despite the fact that there are senior ministers present in the House, the government is not participating at all in the debate this morning. How can we interpret that kind of attitude toward all these groups, representing thousands of Canadians who produce books and songs and who have a positive effect on the lives of millions of Canadians? How can we interpret that silence this morning? How can we not see it as complete contempt for the issue of intellectual property? Canadians will be the judges.

Copyright issues have not been lagging behind other legislation in Canada just recently. Twenty years ago, I had the good fortune to take several courses taught by an expert in this field, Gilles Valiquette, as part of an audio technician programmer course. Even then we were surprised to learn that Canadian copyright law had long been managed by the Department of Agriculture. It took nearly 100 years to correct that situation.

We were also very surprised to learn that the way copyright was managed in Canada, unlike under a number of European laws, the author was not paid until the very end. At that time, we were talking just about CDs, because there was as yet no great diversity in digital formats. Sales had to be reported, say 50,000 copies sold, in order for authors to receive their share, while under a number of European laws, a CD, for example, could not leave the plant before the authors received what was coming to them.

For comparison purposes, it is as if a law in Canada had prevented a bricklayer from being paid until there was enough money for the shopping centre and until enough consumers had visited that shopping centre. That approach is quite absurd and has prevented a lot of creators from earning a living with dignity in Canada.

In the early years of this century I owned a small business where creators produced music. The industry went through a very difficult period with the diversification of digital formats and the ease of copying them. We saw extraordinary artists who ordinarily sold 100,000 or 150,000 or 200,000 copies suddenly, even though they had the same fan base, selling 50,000 or 40,000 or 35,000 copies. When we see a bill that talks about modernizing copyright, the first reaction is to rejoice and say “finally”.

But this bill demonstrates extreme hypocrisy. Even its title should be questioned. Can we really call it a copyright bill when its effect will be to cut creative people’s incomes by millions of dollars? The title of the bill should be changed to make it a little less hypocritical to “an act to support the big distributors” or something along those lines. But no, this bill claims to be about copyright, about authors' rights.

The introduction of this bill was accompanied by completely absurd rhetoric with the government saying, among other things, that copyright is comparable to a tax on iPods.

To say that to authors is just as absurd as saying to any other consultant—someone who does not put down an object in exchange for money, for example the consultants hired by the ministers opposite—that we do not know if they will be paid, because it would be considered a tax. Paying them would be like imposing a surtax on the consumer or the public. We would never make this argument to consultants hired by the departments of our colleagues opposite. It is that absurd.

Such contempt of intellectual property and copyright has consequences. This has been pointed out not just by the NDP, but also by copyright legislation experts. If this bill is passed in its present form, the cultural output of Canada and Quebec will be impoverished. I will give a simple example: I do not want my children living in a world where the only major cultural event of the week, in 2030, is the release of Indiana Jones 27. I hope that my children will live in a world where such talented writers as Yann Martel can make a living writing books and such talented composers as Karkwa can make a living recording music. That is my hope. This bill guarantees that the opposite—the impoverishment of Quebec and Canadian culture—will occur.

In closing, I would like to lend my voice to a group of authors who express, better than I, the current problems with this legislation in an opinion letter entitled “Preserving the dignity of works and their creators”, which was published in Le Devoir.

...this is what is proposed in Bill C-32 [the old nomenclature]: broadening the scope of fair dealing to include education, the possibility of creating a new work from existing works without the consent or remuneration of the author, private copying without payment of additional royalties [the creator is paid once, money is made for 1,000 years; that is inadequate], the mandatory use of digital locks to protect one's work on the Internet, the elimination of the responsibility of Internet service providers, and so forth. These are all situations where respect for intellectual property will disappear [this is the harsh but quite justified conclusion of this group of authors]. With [this] bill..., the exceptions overtake the rule.

We also perceive in this bill a deep-seated contempt for creators and a stubborn refusal to recognize their contribution to the development of our society.

To digress a little: many creators are suffering great hardship. Some great creators with whom I worked were barely able to make a living from their art, if at all. However, I would like to point out that a career as extraordinary as that of Leonard Cohen may have helped him to become a millionaire, and that is wonderful. I want the next Leonard Cohen to also be a millionaire.

My little boy, who is six years old, loves to go for snowmobile rides, and this enriches my everyday life. So thank you, Mr. Bombardier. I am very happy that the Bombardiers are billionaires. My son loves it when we listen to three of Leonard Cohen's songs in particular when we go on road trips. It makes him happy. These two things are very important in my son's life.

It is good that some successful creators simply get rich from their work and their success. I would like to come back to the editorial:

...the bill...calls for the exact opposite. At a time when our government is prepared to spend amounts that defy reason to build up its military arsenal, it is upset about the money that the education sector is paying creators for using their works....

By the way, I have never heard a single teacher ask that creators not be given payment for the use of their works in the classroom. I have never heard of it. I do not know where this is coming from.

In closing, I once again deplore the total lack of interest demonstrated by the members opposite in a situation that is so critical to the future of intellectual property and our country's culture.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear from my colleague's thoughtful remarks that he has done his research. He has listened to Canadians and the people in his constituency in Quebec who have serious reservations about this legislation, that we have not achieved the balance desired or required on a regime of copyright regulation that would serve the needs and interests of the next generation.

My colleague made the point that sometimes legislation benefits from robust, intelligent debate. I wish more Canadians would tune in to debates like the one we are having today where thoughtful, considerate remarks and recommendations are being made on important legislation. This legislation deserves our attention and our full engagement, not just the cursory oversight of a government that is unwilling to listen to legitimate points of view.

I would ask my colleague to put on the record some of the points from our platform in the last federal election that dealt with the fair remuneration of artists and the way that we value the creators of arts, culture and heritage industries as an engine for economic growth.

Does the member agree that we should allow creators to average their income for the purpose of taxation over a period of five years, instead of the unfair way that artists are treated today?

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for raising this issue, which is not directly related to the bill but is still very relevant.

In reality, it is nearly impossible to think that artists will bring in a stable income over several years, simply because they may have some success with launching an album, but since there is a cycle of about 18 months, artists may not necessarily be able to launch an album right away after 18 months. Therefore, artists may make a lot of money some years and less other years. So any legislation that would help stabilize that income would be necessary and would help the cultural community.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in his very thoughtful comments, my colleague mentioned at least two Quebec artists, Yann Martel and Leonard Cohen, who have flourished under the regime in place today. My concern, and I suspect it is his concern as well, is that the next generation of artists would be hamstrung and prevented from making a good sound living by some of the failures of the bill to adequately provide protection for the income of artists.

Would the member like to comment on their future under this bill?

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is a concern shared by all of the people I still consider my friends, people who work in record producing and music producing, and who are authors and composers. They are concerned about that. Two things are happening: digital copying and the ease of making copies at home have caused the market to collapse. Artists have a hard time selling copies, and as soon as they sell one, it turns into as many as 14 illegal copies. Now, if we add to that pressure such as what is in this bill, where what little there is left gives them even less in the way of copyright revenue, it is very likely that extraordinarily talented people, after trying for one, two or three years, after one album or one book, simply will not be able to make an adequate living—we are talking about a roof over their heads and some peanut butter, not much. It is very likely that the next Yann Martel, Karkwa or Arcade Fire will end up in this position and will stop creating. It is very likely that this will happen many times in the years to come.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to enter into the debate on Bill C-11.

I must confess, when the legislation was in the House at earlier stages, I did not enter into the debate partly because of the sheer complexity of the subject. I think one has to have a certain knowledge of the issues to do this particular subject matter justice.

All of us as members of Parliament have been elevated in our information, knowledge and competency in this regard, partly because of the sheer volume of activity and information that we have been getting from concerned Canadians. I wish more Canadians could have tuned into the debate earlier today to hear some of the legitimate concerns brought forward in a very thoughtful and reasoned way to draw attention to the fact that this bill has not achieved its full gestation.

This legislation is not ready to be passed, implemented and made into the law that will govern this sector for the next generation. It is not done yet. It is not baked. It should be put back in the oven. It should at least be given another fulsome round of consultation with the stakeholders.

It appears that all recent Canadian efforts to address our copyright legislation have had very little to do with protecting the interests of Canadian artists, musicians and creators of culture and heritage that are in fact such an engine of economic growth. They have everything to do with satisfying the demands of the U.S. corporate giants that dominate this field. We only seem to be stimulated to open up our Copyright Act when we are under pressure from the corporate giants that are concerned, whether they be the movie studios, the music labels or the video game developers.

We want to know when we will be developing copyright legislation to put the best interests of Quebec and other Canadian artists first, not as some afterthought. There is very little in this bill that actually deals with increasing the opportunities for artists for fair compensation.

The bill does grant a range of new access privileges, but they are not offset with the corresponding recognition of the creators and protection for them. Those are our constituents. Most of us were not put here by the American corporate media giants. Some are unduly influenced by the interests of those giants, but we were sent here by ordinary Canadians to look after their best interests and to put their interests first.

We have been trying to emphasize that especially in this day and age we have to recognize the economic development opportunities of sponsoring a robust and healthy arts, culture and heritage industry and communities. As we lose the smokestack industries, as the garment industries close in the riding of Winnipeg Centre, there is a burgeoning film industry. As we lose the smokestack industries in many Canadian cities, artists are generating economic activity.

I was interested to learn from one of my colleagues, and this will give an example of the substantive debate we are having today, that the sum total is in the neighbourhood of $80 billion a year, and growing. It is one of those industries that is showing a projection in a positive way.

The legislation warrants our attention. It deserves our consideration. We have to get it right, because we are going to be living with it for a long time.

A hallmark of the government is to force through legislation at breakneck speed, many times without the due diligence, without the scrutiny, without the oversight, without the consideration, without testing the merits of the legislation with robust and fulsome debate. The very principle of Parliament, its prime function, is to hold the government to account. If the government suggests the bill is right for Canadians, we should test every clause and every detail of that bill to make sure it is as good as it can be.

In that context, we put forward amendments, not to sabotage the will of the government but to try to make the legislation the best it can possibly be, so that it does not miss anything and that it puts Canadians first and addresses as many of the legitimate concerns of the copyright regime as can possibly be done in one piece of legislation. It is broad. It is sweeping. It is complicated. It is evolving. It is a moving target. It is like shadow boxing, trying to predict what changes we need to put in place to anticipate the changes necessary for a generation from now, because it is only every 30 years or so that this Parliament is seized with this issue.

It is a cautionary tale. We run the risk of not only doing a disservice to the practitioners in those industries today, but we run the risk of a missed opportunity that we are not going to take full advantage of one of Canada's growth industries. If we leave too much on the table, believe me, it will be gobbled up by others.

How do small artists become great artists? They need support. Virtually all industries get corporate handouts and corporate welfare. There is not a single industry that seems willing to renovate its plant without getting the government to pay for half of it. However, we do not consider an $87 billion industry in the same context.

Yes, we have the Canada Council. We have sprinklings of grants that are rationed out, but it is like winning the lottery to get a grant.

The NDP put forward what I thought was a good consideration in the last federal election. We said that in order to encourage and enable small creators, whether it is in music, art, culture, writing or whatever it is, we should let them average their earnings over a period of five years for the purposes of income tax. Any artists or creators will tell us that they might have a good year one year. A painter will have a showing one year and maybe make $100,000 that year by selling 20 paintings, but the next year, the artist will sell none, zero. The artist is taxed at the highest income tax bracket for the one year that the artist made a lot of money. In the next two or three years the artist may make very little. One simple amendment that could have been made to the Income Tax Act to help artists, writ large, would be income averaging.

I have a private member's initiative that would let the first $100,000 of earnings by an artist be income tax free. That is a legitimate proposal. Instead of winning the lottery in this potentially biased way of offering Canada Council grants to those lucky people who are connected to the Canada Council, let us encourage all creators by saying that the first $100,000 a year they earn from their art or craft should not be taxed at all. That is the kind of tax measure we could support if we were serious about enabling our creators in arts, culture and heritage. That is a private member's initiative of mine that I would be happy to expand upon at some other time.

The consultation has been inadequate. We have to get this legislation right and it is not right yet. It is not ready to graduate to its next stage of implementation. We would be stuck with something that would not serve our needs and would not protect the best interests of the very artists who voted for us with the confidence that we would stand up for them. We are going to stand up for Sony and Disney and protect their interests with this bill, but are we really protecting the creators, the Canadian artists who are driving the economy in this new burgeoning industry sector?

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed listening to my colleague's remarks, particularly the portion where he talked about income tax and so forth.

He suggested that $100,000 should be tax free for artists. He also suggested income averaging over five years. That idea, I think, is fairly intriguing.

On the income averaging, would the hon. member be interested in extending that in a much more general way to broader elements of society, to perhaps the whole population? If so, why? If not, why not?

Does the hon. member also think there are other occupations that should have their first $100,000 income tax free?

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in strategic industries, such as arts, culture and heritage, we have the opportunity to encourage small actors to develop into large actors in that field. Yes, I absolutely support this. Income averaging is a reasonable and sensible way to deal with self-employed people, especially in the arts community.

With the $100,000 threshold, we would essentially be raising the basic personal income tax exemption for artists only on the earnings they make from their creation, which is the proposal. If they have two jobs, a real estate agent and a painter, I do not think the tax system should be subsidizing their earnings from another source. However, their earnings from their creations is a far more equitable way to stimulate and encourage creators than the current grant systems that exist now, which are complex. There is a great deal of line loss associated with the Canada Council for the Arts and other grant systems, where a lot of the tax dollars are actually burned up in the delivery and the administration of the system. It would be simpler and more straightforward to give them that tax credit.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it appears, from the discussions we are hearing today, that this bill needs a lot of fine-tuning and that not enough time is being given to zero in on the problems and reach a good, healthy compromise. We have seen this with other pieces of legislation that have been rammed through.

I would like to ask my colleague to comment on the following point. This bill would require that, where a digital lock exists, copies made for the purpose of study self-destruct within five days and that course materials be destroyed no later than 30 days after the conclusion of a course. This would pose large problems for those pursuing long distance education and is not an appropriate use of copyrighted material.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for raising another perfectly legitimate point. We have been dealing with the commercial implications for both the creator and the owner of the copyright of the knowledge. We have spent very little time on the dissemination of knowledge for academic, non-profit and education purposes. It is a whole other element of this bill that requires a lot more study and detail.

My colleague raises a perfectly legitimate concern that, frankly, would strike most people as ridiculous. This is not like Mission: Impossible where the message that we receive will go up in smoke after 30 seconds. This is elevating the human condition through the free exchange of knowledge and information. That is how society and civilization moves forward. If we put limits and constraints on the free distribution of information, we will be holding ourselves back.

It is very unbaked. It is like a turkey dinner at Christmastime. We put it in the oven when it is frozen, take it out four hours later to eat it, cut it open and realize that it is raw and not ready to eat. We need to shove it back in the oven and let it finish cooking before we can enjoy it because it is not ready for human consumption at this point in time.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to begin by acknowledging all the artists in my riding, namely those from Notre-Dame-de-Grâce, Montreal West, Lachine and Dorval, who have written to me on several occasions to explain how they are directly affected by this bill. I also acknowledge the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, whose representatives came to meet with me and tell me about the impact of this legislation on Canadian students.

I am proud to take part in the debate on copyright modernization. I want to be clear. There is no doubt that we, on this side, think that a review of the Copyright Act is long overdue. Indeed, this legislation is not up to date, and some things need to be improved. We also think that some provisions included in the bill are beneficial to both authors and consumers. However, we want to propose amendments, because we believe that, as it stands, the bill is very flawed and that, as parliamentarians, it is our duty to improve it.

The government keeps saying that we vote against various bills, that we are against the budget, that we oppose all sorts of measures, but that is false. We support many initiatives that are good for the public. Today, we are trying to make proposals so that the Conservatives pay attention to all the measures presented in this House.

We want to achieve a balance between creators and consumers. Right now, as my colleagues pointed out, artists in Canada are missing out on millions of dollars with this bill. The average income of an artist is around $12,900 a year, but we know that Canada's culture industry brings in millions of dollars for the government.

This bill seems to target certain consumers who should pay more than others for rights to which they are entitled.

The first thing that bothered me when I read the bill is the fines that the government wants to impose on those who remove digital locks for personal, non-commercial purposes. While there is no doubt that we have to deal with certain issues in this regard, the bill provides for fines of up to $1 million and a five-year term of imprisonment.

Before becoming a member of Parliament, I worked in a detention centre in Quebec. I taught there for some time. Among those there, I saw people who had assaulted children and received sentences of two years less a day. I also saw people who had participated in all kinds of illegal activities and were in a detention centre for two years less a day.

Today, I read in the bill that an individual who has pirated copyrighted material—obviously something that I do not encourage—will get five years in prison, whereas someone who has raped a child will be handed a lesser sentence. I think that there are absurdities of this nature in the bill that absolutely must be addressed, because sentences like that seem somewhat disproportionate to me.

The other thing that disturbed me about this bill is that digital locks essentially trump all other rights including the fair dealing rights of students and journalists. Allow me to explain what I mean.

Currently, where digital locks are concerned, it is a requirement that copies made for educational purposes automatically erase themselves after five days and that course notes be destroyed within 30 days of the course ending.

I was a student less than two years ago, and I still have course notes I reread at home because I find them useful and I paid for them. As a student, I was asked early in the session to pay student fees, and there was always a fee for the material we would require in class. Having paid for this material, I consider it only normal that I should still be able to use it today. Students participating in distance education are asked to do the same thing. Distance education courses are not completed overnight. And yet, data is supposed to be automatically erased within five days and course notes are to be destroyed within 30 days of the course ending. In the case of distance education, five days is clearly not enough time to make use of this data.

The other problem is that our society is increasingly trying to use digitization for ecological and environmental reasons. This creates an imbalance and stalls the promotion of the very innovative cultural formats of our time. That is what upsets me the most. Several groups came and told us that change was critical in this regard.

According to the Cultural Industries' Statement, left unamended, this bill would be toxic to Canada's digital economy.

The Writers Guild of Canada stated that “the only option that Bill C-11 offers creators is digital locks, which freezes current revenue streams for creators, and creates an illogical loophole in the copyright Bill by taking away the very rights the Bill grants to consumers in its other sections.”

More work really needs to be done on this.

The reason why we in the NDP are proposing amendments is not that we are against copyright or that we are against doing some housecleaning on this issue. We are proposing amendments because we believe that, rather than encouraging certain large cultural industries in Canada, we must go to the source and help the creators and artists in my riding and in the ridings of every member of the House. That would allow creators to make money from their work and to be paid a fair price for it, and ensure that consumer rights are not violated. In this regard, a student came to see me and told me that he had paid for class notes that he has to destroy at the end of the course. That is completely ridiculous.

In addition, the Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada believes that amendments must be made to the bill to facilitate access to creative content through new media and to ensure that creators are fairly compensated for the use of their creative content through new media. This comes back to what I just said. Creators provide something to us: culture, a story, a product that is part of our identity. Yet, instead of compensating those creators, we are telling them that they will not be given a fair return under this bill.

Howard Knopf, a copyright, patent and trademark lawyer, has said that the measures to apply digital locks continue to divide Canadians and defy consensus. They are stronger than required by the WIPO treaties and stronger than necessary or desirable.

In conclusion, we are of the opinion that we must move this bill forward because a cleanup is needed. However, the amendments proposed by the NDP must also be taken into consideration so that we can accept this bill and so that it is fair for consumers, producers, artists, students and everyone who wants to have a stake in today's culture.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for shedding a different light on the issues surrounding this bill. I was struck by her discussion of sentences and her comparison of them. Many members of the public make copies. There are many court cases about it in the United States.

Could my colleague talk to us about the changes she thinks could be made so that people do not break the law and become serious criminals while others who commit more serious offences are given more lenient sentences?

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Louis-Hébert for his question. Certainly in the United States there are relatively severe sentences for digital copying. I am not saying that people who violate copyright should necessarily be cleared, not at all. I think that people who make copies should be punished, but perhaps a fine would be enough.

We know that with these bills being introduced by the Conservatives, prisons will be even more full. But I cannot see myself standing before my constituents to defend the fact that they will pay taxes so that people go to prison because they illegally copied a digital file that belonged to an author.

As I said earlier, there is something incoherent about that. As I said earlier, I personally find it much more serious when someone abuses other people than when someone makes an illegal copy of a copyright protected work.

I think that balance needs to be restored and a slightly less serious sentence should be handed down.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, here on this side of the House, we think the copyright modernization bill gives with one hand and takes back with the other. I wonder if my colleague could comment on that.