Debates of June 20th, 2011

Opposition Motion—Seniors' Poverty

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments made by my colleague. I know that she has consistently been very passionate about our seniors with regard to ensuring that they have economic means. In fact, it is one of the reasons why I had a petition with regard to the guaranteed annual income. It was a rather simple petition. It consisted of handwritten pages that one constituent brought forward to share with me in terms of going out and getting other people to sign it.

I wonder if my colleague could provide some sort of comment in terms of feedback from her constituents on the issue of not having enough money in order to meet their needs. I have found it fairly commonplace, especially over the last six or seven months, that seniors feel this an issue of utmost importance for them and feel the government is not doing enough.

To what degree is she hearing that at the doors, given that we just went through an election, in terms of it being a priority issue?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague from Winnipeg North on winning the election. I know he had a really tough battle. It was his second election. I was watching most carefully. He is an extremely competent man and I am very glad that he was re-elected. He certainly fights very hard for his riding as well for all Canadians. He is a real asset to us here in the Liberal Party.

In the last election, knocking on doors we have all heard seniors' issues rising to the top of the priority list. Finally after many years of a lot of talking, we now have an opportunity to show more action.

I recall sitting down and talking to two very frail people in their home. They had a bit of home care, a bit of Meals on Wheels, but it was such a struggle for them after they paid property taxes, hydro and so on to maintain their home. It was sad to listen to them. This is Canada. What do we do to increase their quality of life? It means there are many issues. It means a concentrated effort from a national perspective. Surely this is an issue that we all can focus on and move forward to eliminate poverty in Canada.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the position of the member opposite, who is the member lateral to me now on senior care. I really do appreciate her ideas that removing politics and looking for solutions is a great idea to move forward.

However, I did hear her mention sound bites not being the mechanism to solve the problem but did not miss a number of sound bites that were injected into her speech as she went on to criticize the plans of both the opposition and the government.

If her concern for seniors is so genuine, why in the past have the Liberals voted against pension income splitting, voted against increasing age credits, voted against raising GIS exemptions from $500 to $3,500 and voted against additional money for the new horizons program, including funding to raise awareness for financial abuse of seniors?

I would appreciate it if she could answer that and acknowledge that there are more plans than the Liberal plan that are beneficial.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Clearly, Mr. Speaker, it is because there is no plan. It is a piecemeal approach to a little bit here and a little bit there, whatever will satisfy the voters enough to get their votes and drag them into a process of believing they will get something they will not get.

When the member for London—Fanshawe and ourselves talk about a national plan, we are talking about a national plan, not a piecemeal plan.

As I said before, it was the Liberals who introduced the guaranteed income supplement. It was the Liberals who introduced the old age security and it was the Liberals who introduced the Canada pension plan. If it were not for the Liberals, we would not even have those plans. Thank God for the Liberals and that we have those plans, but much more is needed.

My comments today are, let us try to do that in a concentrated effort. We have four and a half years. We can work together with the government and put politics aside so that at the end of the day we could at least be proud of the work we would have accomplished on the issue of seniors.

The other point is that we would not be dealing with this issue if we had better vehicles to put money away. When women in particular stay home to take care of their children and raise their families, they do not have an opportunity, which is the reason we have so many women who are living in poverty. They took the time off to have children and they were not able to contribute into a plan, even if they had a few dollars.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I find it really interesting that the member mentioned it was her party that actually put pensions in place. I need to refer her to history, because retirement security has long been a priority for New Democrats. In fact, the first pension legislation in the country was moved forward by one of our party's forerunners, which was the Independent Labour Party, in 1927. It was passed due to the ILP holding the balance of power with the minority King government. I just wanted to indicate that.

The other thing I want to mention is that the Liberal Party members keep going on about what they have done and how they have put pensions at the forefront.

I ask the member, why is it that when the Liberals were in government, they had the largest surplus and they did not increase pensions for seniors?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the member not try to rewrite history. It was Liberal prime ministers who introduced all of those programs, and when we were in government, we clearly increased GIS every step of the way and every other program that we had.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by saying that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Beaches—East York.

I am pleased to rise today to deliver my first speech in the House. As many others have done, I would like to take the opportunity to offer my thanks to those who were so helpful to and supportive of me, including my family, of course. Some of my family members even campaigned for me outside my riding. They were behind me 100%. They believed in change and, this year, they did not give in to the feeling that their vote would not change much. The same party had represented Pierrefonds—Dollard for a very long time. This year, the people believed and rightly so, because this time, each vote made a difference in Pierrefonds—Dollard.

I want to thank all of the community groups and organizations that I visited. Collège Gérald-Godin disproved the myth that youth are not involved in politics. I had lively discussions with people of all ages from the various cultural groups in the riding. I want to thank all those who had lively discussions with their friends and family about politics. Everyone in Quebec agrees that it was an exciting campaign. It is always nice to see people getting involved.

Finally, I would like to thank the people of Pierrefonds—Dollard for the trust they placed in me, in the hon. member for Toronto—Danforth and in the NDP team. I want to thank them for their trust, of course, but I also want to thank them for being a source of inspiration for me.

Thank you to Véro, a mother who is waiting for her youngest to be in grade two before she returns to work. In the meantime, as a single mother, she does an impressive and thorough job of budgeting. She is wondering if she should go back to school to try and get her high school diploma.

Thank you to André, the young 72-year-old man who runs a seniors' social group. He puts all his energy into that group. He told me, among other things, that he was happy to still be living in his own home and to be mobile enough to be active in his community. Although he tries to think about it as little as possible, he is afraid of the day when he will be very dependent on our health care system.

Thank you to Samina, who looks after her sick mother and who has been hoping for many years that a family member will be able to join her in Pierrefonds to help her support her family. Thank you to all those who shared their stories with me and told me about their concerns and their priorities. They will motivate me every day to come to this place and speak on their behalf.

People of Pierrefonds, Île-Bizard, Dollard-des-Ormeaux and Roxboro, you can rest assured that you will not be disappointed. I will work hard to carry out the mandate that you gave me on May 2, and I will be your voice here in Ottawa.

I will start today by asking the government to do more to get seniors out of poverty. This year, in February 2011, the government sat down with the National Seniors Council to listen to what seniors had to say about the issues that are most important to them. The government said it would be a good way to work with people from the community to find solutions to the concerns and needs of seniors. However, the measures announced in the budget are far from satisfactory. On the one hand, the government is putting on a good show to bolster its image and make it look as though it cares about our seniors; on the other hand, the proposed measures indicate that the government is not truly interested in putting forward tangible measures to improve the well-being of seniors. The National Seniors Council has reason to feel betrayed, manipulated and insulted.

The recommendations made by the National Seniors Council are clear. After consulting the public and conducting a number of studies, it decided to propose to the government five areas for action that could significantly help low-income seniors.

First, and I am citing the council here, it proposes to address the impact of the cost of living and—more specifically—the cost of energy and food, on low-income seniors; provide more accessible and affordable housing; ensure that more seniors maintain their independence; and ensure that low-income seniors have all the necessary access to needed health services and supplies without a negative impact on their income.

In short, these areas touch on issues that are important to the NDP.

One thing we proposed throughout our campaign was to reduce the cost of heating. We advocated for home care and the building of multi-generational homes. We spoke about increasing accessible and affordable housing. These are the issues we are defending.

Unfortunately, not all the parties are defending these issues. The government plans to invest $300 million to enhance seniors' income. Taken out of context—and I am thinking here of my friends Véro, André and Samina—this may certainly seem like a huge amount. The government is well aware of this fact and is taking advantage of it. The government is bragging about this measure as though it were a generous gift. However, appearances can be deceiving and what the government is promising is actually far from generous.

Let us look at this $300 million from another perspective. Approximately one-third of seniors who are living in poverty would be eligible for this additional assistance. That means that two-thirds of people age 65 and over who are living in poverty would not receive any help. I do not know if you talked to people as I did during my campaign, but I often heard them asking how this assistance would change their everyday lives. I met with people who were disillusioned by politics because they thought that, no matter who they voted for, it would not have any effect on their actual problems and their everyday lives. By implementing this measure, the government is telling those people that they were right and that, if they are seniors living in poverty, they may in fact not see any change in their income.

There is another way of looking at this $300 million. The maximum amount a person can receive—and we are talking here about seniors who are the hardest hit by poverty—is approximately $70 a month, which is less than $2 per day for seniors in the deepest poverty.

Is anyone reassured knowing that these seniors will have an extra $2 a day? Personally, I am not. How can the government be proud of this measure? I have to wonder who among the Conservatives would be willing to go and visit any seniors living in poverty and tell them what they will be getting.

I once worked in a community-based organization that advocates to help people living in poverty improve their quality of life. So if anyone is brave enough to do such a thing today, they can come and see me and I will give them some telephone numbers. I can arrange meetings so they can tell these seniors what the government is going to do for them. I would not feel good telling them about all this.

According to the NDP's calculations, we need to invest about $700 million a year to significantly reduce poverty among seniors. Once again, this amount might sound huge, but we must think of the millions of dollars given to the most profitable corporations and to banks. The government justifies its decision to limit spending by saying it wants to balance the budget, but let me remind the House that this would not involve any additional spending, but rather making different choices and investing money for people, where it can really make a difference.

Basically, what we are proposing here today would allow us to significantly reduce poverty among seniors.

I hope our proposal will resonate with everyone here today.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome my hon. colleague to the House of Commons. That was probably one of the finest speeches I have heard since I have been here. I want to congratulate her because it was very heartfelt. She certainly has politics in her grasp because she told us stories about how these policies affect people. That is how we debate in the House, at least that is the way I like to debate.

She also has a nice riding. I lived there in 1995 and I was able to vote in the Quebec referendum. I voted no, for the record.

My colleague brought up a good point about the utilities measures and heating costs. She also brought up home care, which is a major issue in my particular area much like hers when it comes to impoverished seniors.

Lately, we have been besieged with requests for help because of catastrophic drug coverage. There is very little in the way of drug coverage right now. Drug costs are much higher. Perhaps my colleague would like to tell us some stories involving her riding as to just how big health is, especially when it comes to catastrophic drug coverage.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for his question.

In Pierrefonds—Dollard, we know what it is like to deal with shortcomings in health care. We do not have any major hospitals. We have many health care and social services centres instead and they all have incredibly long lineups. When the hon. member was talking about the high cost of drugs, I immediately thought of the mother who has to fight to get her medication after learning she has cancer while also fighting for her daughter who is involved in her community. One might think that the government would provide help in that situation, but people still have to fight to get the services and quality of life they are entitled to in a country like Canada.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, organizations and volunteers in my riding of Dartmouth--Cole Harbour and other communities throughout Nova Scotia work to support seniors. They keep many of our seniors going day to day. For many seniors, dealing with the pressure and strain, and the demands as a result of living in poverty gets to be an incredible issue of capacity. Campbell's Cole Harbour Senior Citizen Club, for example, provides subsidized meals. The volunteers buy the food and provide a wholesome lunch for seniors.

Could my colleague expand a bit on her experience working with those organizations in her community that assist seniors?

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for giving me the opportunity to draw on my experience in the field to talk about what is being done in the community for seniors.

Pierrefonds—Dollard has many seniors' organizations. There are organizations to help seniors, but there are also seniors who start up organizations themselves to create their own social networks in order to help each other out and to break out of isolation. People are taking charge of the situation themselves and if we give them the means, they can regain control of their own lives and improve society considerably. The volunteers are doing an incredible job, but they are exhausted. They cannot do all this alone. They need us. We are here for them. We just need to remember that.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the motion put forward by the member for London—Fanshawe and in admiration of her commitment to the plight of the approximately one-quarter of a million Canadian seniors living in poverty.

I rise to speak today out of respect for our country's seniors for the motion and the issue it addresses is most fundamentally that of respect. It is about recognizing that our good fortune as Canadians comes to us, not as a matter of chance or inevitability, but as a result of the work and the very many sacrifices of previous generations.

It is our parents and grandparents but mostly, it should be noted, our mothers and grandmothers who are the subject of this motion. We know intimately how hard they worked for what we today enjoy.

This motion proposes that we demonstrate our respect for the seniors of this country in a truly modest way, simply by ensuring that they do not live in poverty. That is all.

Yet, that is a lot because to be lifted out of poverty matters so much to those who live in it. It means enough food to eat, a decent place to live, the ability to pay for some basics and a retirement with a little less worry and perhaps even a little more pleasure. As much as anything, it means a little dignity at a time in life when dignity can be so easily lost and so difficult to recover.

That, one would think, is not much to ask of us, and it is not. The motion before us asks us to confirm that ending seniors' poverty in this country is fiscally feasible. It most certainly is. It is our good fortune that this moral imperative of ending seniors' poverty is also something easily done and easily affordable.

The government budget calls for expenditures of more than $280 billion for the upcoming year. This motion contemplates a tiny fraction of that, something in the range of about one-tenth of 1% of total expenditures. In fact, the expenditure required to lift seniors out of poverty is even just a fraction of the adjustment for risk that the government has built into its planning assumptions. Lifting all seniors out of poverty amounts to about 20% of the $1.5 billion annual planning cushion in this budget.

Further, I would note that since this budget was first tabled in March of this year, the government has revised its deficit projection downward by $4.3 billion in 2010-11 and revised it upward by $2.7 billion in the subsequent year for a net deficit reduction of $1.6 billion. All of which is to say that there are margins of error in this budgeting process, all of which highlight the fiscal modesty of this proposed initiative to lift seniors out of poverty and the fiscal feasibility of doing so.

Now it is not difficult to anticipate a response to this motion, and we have heard it already, that would suggest that this economy, owing to global economic uncertainty, is as of yet fragile, that there are threats to our economic recovery and that therefore we cannot assume that revenues will emerge to cover the cost implied by this motion.

However, the largest threat to both the pace and extent of economic recovery in Canada is the adoption of the kind of economics that informs the government's budget. It is of considerable curiosity that the government, in response to the recession, embraced, however tentatively, the need for fiscal stimulus, yet now, with our economic recovery so far from complete and under constant threat, as the government acknowledges throughout its budget document, the government embraces an economics of fiscal restraint. Service cuts and corresponding public sector job cuts are easily anticipated.

Although we hear members of this House trumpeting job creation numbers almost daily, this motion is a good context for reminding the House and all Canadians that we remain 300,000 jobs short of our pre-recession employment figures.

In the motion we have before us is the opportunity, not only to repay the critically important debt owed to the seniors of this country, but also the opportunity to assist in a very effective way with the economic recovery.

I would urge all those contemplating the fiscal feasibility of this motion to refer to the annex to the government's seventh report to Canadians on the economic action plan. That annex sets out the economic multipliers associated with various forms of fiscal stimulus. Interestingly, it identifies fiscal stimulus targeted at low-income households, such as seniors living in poverty, as having the highest economic multiplier. That is the greatest propensity for creating jobs of all the measures examined.

We, of course, do not need economists to tell us this. We know it is a matter of common sense that if we put money in the hands of people living in poverty it will be spent to ensure that basic needs are met. To reiterate, we are talking today about one-quarter of a million seniors in this country whose basic needs are not being met.

We have in this motion the opportunity to do the right thing by the seniors of this country while, at the same time, adding stimulus to the economy struggling to recover and creating jobs for a Canadian workforce struggling to find work.

We have many options open to us to support fiscally the implementation of this motion. At present, for example, the government seems set to continue with its schedule for corporate tax cuts, dropping the rate to 15% by 2012. These cuts will reduce revenue by billions in this fiscal year, with further revenue losses accumulating annually as we move forward. However, a recent study has demonstrated the impotence of corporate tax cuts in Canada as a means of stimulating domestic economic growth and job creation. The study shows that capital spending in Canada by large corporations has been in decline for about 25 years, irrespective of the drastic cuts to corporate tax rates over the same period of time.

Interestingly, even the annex to the economic action plan that I previously referenced shows the relatively tepid and delayed impacts of corporate tax cuts. The annex makes it clear that corporate tax cuts have but a fraction of the impact of fiscal stimulus measures such as the very one contemplated by the motion we are presently discussing. Moreover, the corporate tax cuts result effectively in the transfer of billions of dollars to the U.S. treasury as a result of the differential in the corporate tax rates of our two countries, billions of dollars that could be used to lift seniors and many more Canadians out of poverty.

However, if it does not please the government to lift seniors out of poverty by eliminating or even delaying its schedule of corporate tax cuts to large and, in many cases, immensely profitable corporations, I would point to the government's military procurement plans as another source for funding poverty relief for seniors in Canada. The Canada first defence strategy contemplates a total of $490 billion of spending over the next 20 years on a wide variety of military infrastructure and hardware, including, of course, the F-35 fighter jets. According to the government's estimates, as controversial and contested as they may be, the 65 F-35 fighter jets that the government intends to purchase will cost taxpayers $9 billion, at an estimated $75 million to $85 million apiece.

It is an incredible understatement to suggest that there is ample room here for lifting seniors out of poverty without compromising our national security. The issue here is clearly one of priorities and not of fiscal feasibility.

It seems to me that every good policy has a sound principle upon which it rests. The principle underlying the motion before us is obvious and compelling. It is about respecting what others have built for us and acknowledging our debt to them for the country we inherit from their efforts. This is not just something we can do. It is something we must do.

I urge, therefore, that the members of this House support this motion before them.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, they say that economists and the subject of economics are uninteresting but I would say that my colleague has shed some fascinating light on what the government claims is an unaffordable cost in terms of the $700 million that it would take to lift all seniors out of poverty, and not just a few as the government plans.

I have a couple of questions for my colleague with regard to the budget and the outlook for the budget. It is interesting because it says that in 2009-10, individual personal income taxes will be about $103 billion and that by 2015, they will be $151 billion, a significant increase on individuals, on the hard-working people of this country.

However, in 2009-10 the amount for the corporate sector is about $30 billion. By 2015, it will be up to about $39 billion. If we take it as a proportion, it is very clear that the hard-working people of this country will be hard hit.

What would the member do in terms of this tax system and where would he find the money for seniors?

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are many places to find money to support and show our respect for the seniors of this country who are living in poverty.

The one thing we must do is deal with the issue of corporate tax cuts. I find it very interesting that a government that has authored this budget and prides itself on fiscal responsibility has lowered the corporate tax rates with the aid of the Liberal Party of Canada to such an extent that we have effectively a $6 billion tax transfer to the U.S. treasury every year. The foregone revenue to this country from those corporate tax cuts could very easily go to support seniors and lift many others who live in poverty out of poverty, including children.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, everybody in this House will have seniors living in their ridings. In my own riding, housing is not as affordable as it is in some other parts of the country. In the previous sitting in the House, the member from Vancouver East had a bill before this House on a national affordable housing strategy which would have directly assisted seniors.

In my own riding, it is very difficult to get home support care, which we know helps seniors to stay in their homes.

Could the member comment on what he sees as being an important aspect of contributing toward seniors being able to age in their own homes, having access to affordable homes and maintaining their health and well-being as a result of adequate housing?

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is most certainly clear that this country needs a national affordable housing strategy. As many members of this House will know, Beaches—East York is in the city of Toronto, which is a very expensive city in which to live. Many seniors in the city of Toronto are now living in poverty and having tremendous difficulty affording the homes and apartments in which they live.

One of the trends that we see in our city is seniors having to move out of their homes and communities that are easily accessible to many of the services they require simply because the cost of housing in those areas has become so expensive. In the city of Toronto and across the country, it is a matter of many seniors being forced to live in communities away from the services they need, which adds to their economic social isolation as well.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite from Beaches—East York speaks to seniors being lifted out poverty--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. I thought the member was rising on debate. Is he rising on a question?

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was rising in response to the member opposite.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The questions and answers for the member from Beaches—East York is completed now. We are moving on to the next speaker who is the hon. member for Huron—Bruce.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise in the House today to speak to the motion by the member for London—Fanshawe, who likely does not know that my grandmother of 85 years is actually a constituent of hers. I do not suppose she voted for the member, but I thought I would add that as a bit of feedback.

This is an important issue. The riding of Huron—Bruce, as many people know, is in southwestern Ontario and home to a great number of seniors. It has a beautiful shoreline north and south of Lake Huron, just north of Grand Bend and Southampton. It is home to a great number of seniors who have worked hard through their years and now enjoy retirement in a beautiful area that includes both Huron and Bruce counties.

In looking at what the government has done for seniors, I can think of one program right off the bat that has helped a lot of seniors, the new horizons program. This program involves a great number of seniors in our communities, whether in health programs that get them physically active or one, for example, that makes a building in the community more accessible. The new horizons program is very welcome and has had a significant impact in the riding of Huron—Bruce and, of course, all the others throughout this country.

Another great program this government has worked on at length, and specifically in this case with the Province of Ontario and counties or municipalities, is affordable housing. This is a great equalizer for seniors. Here, I can think of an affordable housing project that was approved, in conjunction with the province, for the riding of Huron—Bruce in the municipality of Huron East. It is a great program for affordable housing for seniors.

Yes, on one side, it is important that at-risk seniors have a safe and bankable Canada pension, old age security and, if they qualify, the supplement to top up their incomes. On the other side, too, on the expense side, it is also vitally important to have safe and affordable housing for seniors.

I know our government has worked hard with all provinces to have affordable housing projects in place. It may surprise those watching today, and even some of the members opposite, that a lot of the dollars allocated in previous budgets for new affordable housing projects or for refurbishing existing ones were voted against by the opposition. We hoped they would support those projects, but in fact they voted against them. They also voted against the dollars for the new horizons for seniors program. That was also unfortunate, but be that as it may, it happened.

When we look at our initiatives for affordable housing, our government has been there for seniors, and if we look at the new dollars in this budget for the guaranteed income supplement, certainly the $300 million is welcome. The opposition had an opportunity in March to make a statement to at-risk seniors saying whether it wanted $300 million more allocated to seniors for the guaranteed income supplement or to spend that money on an election. The opposition, oddly enough, voted for an election and now is back at the table asking for more money. It is a little passing strange that this is the way it thinks, but we are getting used to it. I am nearly in my third year here and am certainly getting used to these initiatives.

I think back to when I first arrived here in October 2008. In 2009, when the committees were struck, I had the great opportunity and privilege to sit on the human resources committee, which was in the midst of a study on poverty in Canada. It was an important study of a committee that travelled from coast to coast, looking at all forms of poverty and low-income situations, how they arose and in what communities programs were working well, as well as a road map to lift all seniors and Canadians out of poverty.

While I was thinking of what to say today, I realized that every single opposition member of that committee did not get re-elected. Be that as it may, it is a fact. It could be looked at as a referendum on what Canadians thought we were doing for those at risk in providing needed funding. Whether for social transfers, health transfers, or working agreements with provinces for affordable housing, our government was there.

If one thinks of other measures to help those most at risk improve and make their lives more meaningful, one can look to social transfers and health transfers. This government has consistently increased dollars to provinces for health care at 6% a year since 2006, and the same for social transfers. These are great investments that help those most at risk by equalizing things.

The ironic thing for those listening at home is that they we will start to see a trend. The opposition voted against this. The opposition sitting in the House right here today voted against each and every dollar allocated for this.

The government and the Conservative Party of Canada are certainly here for all Canadians. We are here for those who find themselves in low-income situations. We are here for those who find themselves in what would be defined as poverty. We will continue to be there for them.

Another thought of mine in this discussion is that the issue is not where one is at in one's retirement years, as far as low-income or poverty is concerned, but perhaps the 40 years leading to it. What we have done as government, what we have done in our methodology, is to try to help Canadians steer clear of poverty.

The government, initially through Status of Women Canada and later through Human Resources, funded a program to identify at-risk youth in my riding through the organization Rural Response for Healthy Children. These at-risk youth, including those who had had a child at an early age or young families who were having financial issues, were helped through Rural Response for Healthy Children to learn basic budgeting 101. This was a tremendously popular program in the Huron portion of Huron—Bruce, and it spread.

Once other counties heard about this program, they wanted it. With funding through Status of Women, the rural response organization did programs in Perth, Middlesex and Bruce counties. There were about half a dozen counties in which did a train the trainer program so they could deliver this information to the most at-risk youth, who perhaps did not even know how to write a cheque or open a bank account. They informed them of the most basic things, including setting up a budget for a household to ensure that the youth could live within their means.

So, yes, we have programs providing dollars for those in their senior years, but we are also taking proactive measures to help people have a little more.

I have a quote from a young lady, who is symbolic of those we are trying to reach. She said:

When I came into this session I was scared. My husband took care of the finances and never told me what was happening. We were always getting calls from creditors and we stopped answering the phone. I never had enough money to buy food, formula and diapers. I was pregnant again and didn't know what was going on or how we were going to survive. Then I took this training and I started asking questions about our money and where it was going. At first he was mad about it and then I explained that I had taken this training and what I learned. Then he wanted to find out what it was and came to some sessions with me. Now we work together on our household budget and we can finally say we don't owe anyone any money now. After two years we can pay all of our bills on time, we are better partners, more loving and kind to each other, better parents and two months ago we started a savings account. It may be only $10.00 a month but to us it is the world. Thank you so much for offering this training to me and my family and for supporting us along the way. Things will never be as bad as they were and we have RRHC to thank for it.

That is a good news story. That is being proactive. That is working with those who are at risk and setting them up for a great future. Yes, it is only $10 a month, but it will be $50 a month and then it will be $100 a month and things will grow. That was a program through Status of Women. We were fortunate enough as well to have a program through Human Resources, and we called it budgeting 2.0 or 102. This is a program to help people manage their finances, whether they have a dollar or a million dollars.

One of the main techniques was to get these young families to start thinking about their children's education and, although it may be 15 or 20 years down the road, to learn about registered education savings programs, to learn about the programs available to families to continue to build their savings.

These are some of the initiatives that I give our government great credit for, initiatives that oftentimes we do not see in the news and do not hear about. These investments are not in the hundreds of millions. This investment with these two programs was likely $200,000 over three years.

The point is that there is not one silver bullet for solving our issues of poverty among seniors and young families, but it is about a whole array of programs and partnerships to lift all those who are poor.

There are some impressive facts about Canada. Among the developed world, the developed nations, we have the lowest rate of poverty among seniors. That is something to be proud of. Of course, we would love to have zero poverty among seniors, to have no poverty among them at all, but we have not got there yet. We as a government are working hard. Sometimes we are working hard in spite of what the opposition members do with their votes, but we are committed to this.

We have also had other programs in the last number of budgets. We had the targeted initiative for older workers. This has been a tremendous program. There is even a work-sharing program. I see in my community, in my riding of Huron—Bruce, a number of small manufacturers with older workforces that have used work-sharing. This has allowed our older workers to stay employed and employable, and as we are coming through the recession, this has allowed them to maintain their jobs as they approach 60 or 65, or even beyond, if they choose to work into their further years.

Our government should be commended for the work it has done. I think back to the study we did on the human resources committee and the testimonials we heard from a great number of delegates. Our goal as a government is to lift all seniors out of poverty.

It is also important that we continue to grow our economy, so we can continue to support increased transfers for health care, so we can continue to provide the transfer payments to provinces so that they can provide the necessary social programs.

I can think of another great program that is just starting in our community. It provides dental care to young people whose parents are low income, so they can have a healthy lifestyle. All of us know that good dental hygiene leads to good health.

The federal government has introduced a great number of programs. There is a trickle down effect to our counties and local municipalities as a result of the social transfers. They are vitally important. We are going to continue to make those investments.

I can think of a great number of programs that have had an impact, for example, our retirement homes. We have funded programs through our economic action plan. We were fortunate enough to fund a program jointly with the province and the county for a retirement home in Bluewater municipality. This will provide seniors, even those low income seniors, with an opportunity to live out their remaining years in dignity, in a beautiful place.

Members should look at all our government has done in five and a half years and what we continue to do. Not that long ago a previous government slashed transfers to the provinces, which put pressure on the provinces, the municipalities and the counties. They could not deliver these services.

We have gone through the greatest recession and depression in my lifetime. This government chose to continue to deliver to the provinces and the municipalities, so that those at risk would not be left behind. They were able to continue to provide the services that they provided in the past, and that is vitally important.

Back in the nineties, the previous government slashed programs and those most at risk, those most vulnerable, were hurt the most, were impacted the most.

We will continue with our programs. Through our stimulus programs, through our economic action plan, we have made great investments in our municipalities. This will make life better for those at risk, for those low income Canadians.

I would like to thank the House for the opportunity to speak to this issue. It is one that I am passionate about. If all of us in the House work together, we can make a difference in a great many lives of seniors and those at risk.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Huron—Bruce says he is passionate about this issue. However, I detected a distinct absence of passion and perhaps even an absence of recognition that we are facing a demographic crisis in this country as an aging population is left with insufficient resources to enjoy the dignified senior years that he was waxing eloquently about a couple of minutes ago.

Let me ask him about the double whammy that is facing us.

In the post-war years, we tried to address seniors' poverty and we did put in place measures that drastically reduced seniors' poverty. However, that curve has turned. It has hit bottom and is rising back up again. At a time that we have this exploding demographic blip of baby boomers reaching their retirement years, we have an assault on pensions; not only an unwillingness to increase the state-sponsored pensions but Thomas d'Aquino, in his wisdom, 10 years ago declared war on the defined benefit pension system and then he systematically set about to attack it at every turn. Now they are blaming so-called legacy costs on lack of productivity. It is an attack on pensions just when the demographics of the country indicate and dictate that we should be expanding, broadening and enhancing pensions.

How does the member explain this contradiction and a lack of action by his government on either of those fronts?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that anybody receiving a defined benefit pension would not be eligible for the guaranteed income supplement. The likelihood of that would virtually be zero. We need to be clear in what we are talking about.

The member has been in this House a lot longer than I have. However, just in the last three budgets, he sat in this House, at that time down at the far end, and voted against money for seniors in each and every budget.

There comes a time when rhetoric is deafening. He can stand and rail all day long. However, at the end of the day his voting record is what counts. When he votes against new money for seniors each and every year, against new money for affordable housing each and every year, it speaks volumes. That should be his record that he will have to deal with.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the comments just made by my hon. colleague. I want to thank him for bringing the Conservative government's record to the House. It is important that people watching, especially senior citizens, know the important measures that are available to them, many of which have been brought forward by the Conservative government.

Oftentimes the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre talks about the necessity of looking at the facts, looking at statistics. What we know today is that while it is still a number that is unacceptable, we only have 5.8% of seniors living under the poverty rate. This is the best in the developed world.

Let us look at the record, though. That is 5.8% in comparison to what? In comparison to what it was in 2003, when the rate was 6.8%. If we go even further back, it was 7.9% in 1999. So, clearly, the measures that have been brought forward by the Conservative government are truly resonating in reality. That is what we need to continue to look at.

I wonder if the member has any comments with regard to the statistics.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we all know the guaranteed income supplement is recalculated in July. This is when changes can happen for our seniors where they would possibly receive this increased benefit. We are near the end of June. There is a lot of pressure, a lot of expectation, to put on our civil servants to be able to deliver, when we were faced with an unnecessary election. Now, two months later, had this budget and this legislation gone through, those lowest income seniors would know what paycheque they would be receiving, they would know when they would be receiving it, and they would know how much they would be receiving.

With the election, and the member for Winnipeg Centre wanted the election, he has put the dollars in question, the dollars in jeopardy for our low income seniors, our most at risk seniors.

Again, the NDP's voting record says one thing, but its voting record tells a completely different story.