House of Commons Hansard #14 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was post.

Topics

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, every member of the opposition has approached this issue with respect for the ordinary workers who carry our mail every day. We are talking about people who work hard in the community. My letter carrier climbs 40 steps up the hill to deliver every day. Letter carriers work very hard, I know the kinds of hours they put in, and they are very thoughtful. Yet the government is attacking what has been bad management practices. There is no other way of putting it.

A business plan needs to be put into place to ensure the workers who understand the system best are keenly involved in bringing Canada Post to the next stage. These workers are the backbone of the system. Instead, management has been very stubborn and obstinate. What happens? The Conservative government rewards bad behaviour. We have seen that, whether we are talking about the banking industry or anywhere else, the Conservatives reward bad behaviour, and that is really too bad.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the legislation introduced by the Minister of Labour to bring an end to the work stoppage at Canada Post and to send the outstanding issues between the parties to binding arbitration.

A work stoppage is underway and a vital service is gone and Canadians have some urgent questions. How did this happen? How did things ever get this far? Do we not have mechanisms to resolve labour-management conflicts? We certainly do and, over 90% of the time, they work exceptionally well.

In this country, employers and the unions that represent their employees are able to negotiate the terms and conditions of employment through a process of collective bargaining. This usually involves some compromises on both sides. These negotiations almost always result in a settlement that is acceptable to both sides. We do not hear much about the proceedings because usually there is nothing very dramatic about the signing of a collective agreement.

What if the talks fail? This occasionally happens but all is not lost because the Canada Labour Code provides for a series of measures the government can take to help the parties in a dispute get past their differences and avoid a strike or a lockout.

What happened in the case of Canada Post? It is not my place to comment on the issues between the parties. I can speak only for the government. I can assure Canadians that we did everything within our power to help Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, Urban Operations Unit to come to an agreement. We used every tool at our disposal.

I will go back to the fall of last year. Negotiations between Canada Post and CUPW began in October 2010 with the goal of reaching a settlement before the existing collective agreement expired on January 31, 2011. Despite some concessions on both sides, the two parties could not agree on some crucial points. On January 21, 10 days before the contract expiry date, the parties to the dispute informed the Minister of Labour that they were deadlocked. As I said, in a case like this, there are steps the government can take and the government has taken them.

Step one is to send in a conciliator. If conciliation fails, step two is to appoint a mediator. In the case of Canada Post and CUPW, the government followed the usual process as set out in the Canada Labour Code. and we spent a lot of time meeting with both sides. I want to stress, in case there is any doubt on this point, that the Minister of Labour does not play favourites and that the experts she appoints have to be impartial. Their job is not to impose the kind of agreement that would be most agreeable to the government. Their role is to help the parties find their own solutions.

I will now go to the chronology of events.

After 60 days of conciliation, there was still no agreement between Canada Post and the union. Considering the stakes involved, both parties agreed to extend the conciliation period for another 32 days. Even after 92 days of effort by the conciliator, an agreement in this case was not forthcoming.

On May 5, the Minister of Labour appointed a mediator. The parties entered into a 21-day cooling off period as prescribed by the Canada Labour Code but there was still no progress. Instead, on May 30 the union filed a 72-hour strike notice and, on June 3, the postal workers walked out. Finally, on June 15 the employer declared a lockout.

I said before that Canadians have questions and the next question they have is what will happen now. If the last postal disruption, which occurred in 1997, is anything to go on, the damage to the economy could be significant. Businesses that rely on the mail will be severely affected if the strike is prolonged. Some of these businesses could go under, jobs could be lost , and some of those losses could be permanent.

The question before us is whether we can afford this disruption at a time when our economy is still fragile and still in recovery.

It is important to remember that not everyone uses computers exclusively. Many Canadians still communicate by conventional mail as an essential part of their business operations.

Many of our citizens depend on the services of Canada Post to receive essential government information and benefits. People who are waiting for an important cheque or a package and cannot easily get to an alternative delivery site are suffering. Everyone will be affected by this work stoppage, but people with disabilities, the elderly and people who live in remote communities will hurt the most.

I will highlight some of the many organizations in my riding of Calgary Northeast that is adversely affected by this strike. Recently I was contacted by Fred Weiss, executive director of Samaritan's Purse Canada, as well as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association of Canada, both of which are headquartered in my riding. Between 65% to 75% of the donations to these organizations arrive through the mail. The recent postal strike has reduced those donations substantially. The very missions of these charity relief organizations is in jeopardy as a direct result of this strike.

I will share with members some of the work that people like my EDA member, Marg Pollon, are doing at Samaritan's Purse. They provided relief to citizens of Slave Lake Alberta as they returned to their fire-ravaged town. They assisted in the relief efforts during the floods in Quebec. They are assisting in post-earthquake rebuilding in Japan. They worked to treat victims in Haiti. This is only a small fraction of the work that the Samaritan's Purse does in Canada and around the world, but it needs donations to do it and it needs the postal service. It is not only the economy, it is also the victims of disasters at home and abroad. The strike will cause real hardship to many Canadians.

People have asked what the government is going to do about it?

In answer is we have made the difficult decision to end the strike with back to work legislation and binding arbitration. That means that we are imposing a solution. This is a drastic measure and we know that we may be criticized for seemingly violating the rights of free collective bargaining.

When collective bargaining fails, the worker's union has the legal right to pressure the employer by withdrawing their labour. Employers also have the legal right to lock out workers and try to continue business without them.

Our government respects the rights of both the workers and the employers. That is why back to work legislation is the exception to the rule in Canada. In the case of Canada Post versus CUPW, the rights of the corporation and the 50,000 postal workers have to be weighed against the rights of 33 million Canadians.

We know we are also being criticized for acting too quickly and forcefully, but this is not an over reaction to an unforseeable event. It is a culmination of a long process. As I said, we have been working with Canada Post and the union for several months.

The best solution in any dispute is always the one that the parties reach themselves. As parliamentarians, we would rather not intervene, but in this case we must because there is a threat of serious harm to the national economy, small businesses and vulnerable Canadians.

Our country's economy is only now beginning to emerge from the downturn caused by the global recession. If the postal strike continues, we could lose much of the ground we have gained so far.

We just cannot afford to go without our postal services. Our government has no alternative but to introduce back to work legislation to bring resolution to this dispute.

Canadians want to know when Parliament is going to act. The answer is very simple: right now.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, I could relate with and agree to much of what my colleague had to say. The hon. member said things that I believe we know to be true. It is a fundamental tenet of a western democracy that working people have the right to organize in trade unions, they have the right to bargain collectively and they have the right to withhold their service if those negotiations and collective bargaining should reach an impasse.

We enshrined those rights in our Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as a way to ameliorate and mitigate the imbalance that exists in the power dynamic between an employer and its employees. Obviously the power is resident with the employer and its has the ultimate economic hammer. Some countervailing rights are allocated to the employees so as to be able to move forward in the bargaining process.

Has the member ever seen the movie Wag The Dog, when one creates a manufactured crisis by underfunding the pension plan and then going balls to the walls in the negotiations trying to convince the world that the pension plan is so underfunded that it is an expectation that is unreasonable? Is he aware that he is willing dupe perhaps in this ridiculous charade?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, my friend from the opposite side asks his question by laying out all the ground work and at the end asks a typically NDP-socialist question.

I absolutely agree with the member that the unions and workers have rights, but he forgets to mention that the employers of the businesses and charitable organizations also have rights to run smoothly. The government has the obligation to ensure that everyone runs his or her business smoothly, while at the same time protecting the rights of workers.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to the comments of my colleague, but I have to ask him quite sincerely if he has actually looked at the clauses in Bill C-6? Has the hon. member looked at it from the objective of having to be fair to all sides of this issue? How can the hon. member stand there and defend legislation that clearly has only one objective, which is to break the back of the union?

Has he has actually read the clauses and is he comfortable with them? On this side of the House we are looking for compromises on various sides of the issue. Compromise means both sides. It does not mean just one side.

Has the hon. member looked at the clauses in Bill C-6 and can he tell me that he is able to live with himself when he votes for this legislation?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, if I do not believe in something, I will never stand and defend it. Therefore, the answer to her question is, yes, I am familiar with the clauses.

She talks about breaking the back of the unions. However, I mentioned in my speech there are charities in my own riding that depend on donations. They do great work, not only in Calgary Northeast, Alberta and across Canada but around the world. They depend on those donations. That is why it is our government's obligation to ensure all those good organizations are able to run smoothly.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, first, I thank my hon. colleague from Calgary for what I thought was an outstanding intervention. He talked about the process the federal government has gone through in following all of the legislation and trying to assist in bringing the two sides together to get a deal. We have always indicated that we wanted to see a deal worked out between the two sides. However, it is clear that is just not going to happen, and the government must act.

We have certainly heard the NDP members say that they think the government is not being fair. Does the member think that it is fair that CUPW has not allowed any of its membership to vote on the three Canada Post contract offers? The union members have not had the opportunity to vote on any of that, including the most recent contract offer that Canada Post made to its members. Is he aware of that? Does he think CUPW should have allowed the individual members the right to vote? It seems democratic to me.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague asks an excellent question. I have received some messages from some posties. One postie raised the issue that for some reason, the union had not allowed them to vote on any agreement.

The NDP talks all the time about transparency and openness. However, at the same time, these unions do not allow their own members to vote until they finalize the deal according to their wishes.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

June 23rd, 2011 / 7:55 p.m.

NDP

Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the many speeches made by government members and they seem to want to lead us to believe that there is a sense of urgency and that we must act quickly. They are trying to get their point across by taking every opportunity to remind us that negotiations have been underway for eight months. It seems to me that one does not have to have participated in very many negotiation processes to know that things move slowly for the first few months. The parties talk about the colour of the paper, the expiry date of the collective agreement, the number of years.

The collective agreement expired at the end of January 2011. The parties have therefore really only been negotiating for a few months. If the parties are negotiating without any strike action, what difference does it make if it takes 8, 12 or 24 months, as long as services are still being provided and the public is not negatively affected. In my opinion, the sense of urgency seems to have been created entirely by the lockout declared by Canada Post and likely telegraphed by our government friends.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member acknowledging that the negotiations have been going on for almost eight months.

The key point here is that the negotiations between the parties were going for three months or so and then after that the conciliator was there. The conciliator got some dates extended for another 32 days, so all together it was 92 days. After that, mediators were present.

It was the union that, on May 30, filed a 72-hour strike notice. It was not the management, it was not the government and it was not a third party; it was the union that threatened a strike.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise in my place and ask the hon. member a couple of questions.

I agree with the fact that the member has recognized this as a problem situation, but I disagree with his characterization of the problem. The member suggested that this is a strike. It is absolutely not a strike. It is a lockout. He has suggested that eight months' worth of negotiations is too long.

When is the government going to then make amendments to the Canada Labour Code and suggest amendments to all the trade union acts that “thou shalt only negotiate for eight months?” It is absolutely absurd.

The member opposite should pay a little more attention to what really happens in negotiations and not interfere with—

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Calgary Northeast.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is amazing how the member opposite can distort the facts in the House of Commons.

He talks about a lockout, but he is not ready to say that the lockout was the last stage of the strike. The strike was started by the union. The employer had to impose a lockout because the strike began.

At the same time, the member should understand one thing. As a government, it is our obligation to ensure that the workers' rights are protected and at the same time ensure that our economy is not be hurt.

As everyone knows, Canada has one of the best records on its economy and on the recovery of its economy. We are not in a position to take a chance on it.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Mr. Speaker, since this is my first opportunity to rise in the House in the 41st Parliament, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the electors of Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry for returning me to the House. They have done me the favour of allowing me to be part of a strong majority Conservative government. That warms my heart very much.

I receive a lot of calls in my office, and especially in the last two weeks. Close to 70% of the callers say they want us to get the posties back to work. That is what the polls across the nation are saying.

In the member's riding, what is the rate of people who want us to get the posties back to work?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is not only me who gets hundreds of emails and phone calls that the posties must get back to work, but I am sure that the offices of the members opposite also get hundreds of emails saying that the workers should go back to work.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

It being 8 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those opposed will please say nay.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #23

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I declare the motion carried.

The next question is on the main motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

8:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.