Debates of Oct. 30th, 2013

Ethics

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I think has been illustrated many times, the Senate makes its own decisions in these matters. Senator Tkachuk, the chair of the committee, has been very clear that this is the case. It is also clear that we do not always agree with those decisions.

However, it is very clear what we expect in this particular case. There has been a breach of public trust, claiming expenses to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars that should never have been claimed, and there should be appropriate action taken to remove those senators from the public payroll.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, that would be an independent Senate. Let us look at an email exchange from February 11.

Mike Duffy to Nigel Wright, “What does Marjory's letter mean for our talks?”

Nigel Wright to Mike Duffy, “I had no foreknowledge of it. When I learned of it I asked for all unilateral action from [the Senate leader's] office to cease before being cleared with me.”

That is Senate independence? They were controlling it out of his office.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Senate committee that the member refers to was the committee of Senator Tkachuk, not Senator LeBreton, who was the government leader in the Senate. The Senate made its own decisions. The Senate has been very clear on that matter. We believe, to be very clear about this, that the senators, having failed to repay any expenses they took inappropriately in due course, should be removed from the public payroll.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, can the Prime Minister explain the difference between Senator Patrick Brazeau's illegal expense claims and the equally illegal claims made by his close friend, Carolyn Stewart Olsen?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is making allegations against people without having all the facts.

It is really interesting to see the comportment of this particular individual, making allegations without any substantiation against some individuals, against some senators.

However, at the same time, when he is actually caught doing that and convicted in court for having done that, he then expects his political party to pay the fines and the damages for him. That is the kind of person we are dealing with over there.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, actually, Carolyn Stewart Olsen admits that she wrongly charged taxpayers, and an admission is indeed the best form of evidence.

If she also wrongly charged taxpayers, exactly like Patrick Brazeau, the only question that remains is this. Why is she still sitting in the Senate? Why not the same treatment for her?

The only answer that we know is that she is very close to the Prime Minister.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, that allegation is made without any facts, without any information, without any substantiation.

I go once again. If the leader of the NDP thinks it is so inappropriate for a political party to assist its members with financial expenses, why would he not pay back those expenses to his party? In fact, why would he not admit to asking his political party to pay nearly $100,000 in a court-determined wrongdoing on his behalf? Why would he not admit that is wrong and commit himself to repaying the money to his party?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has confirmed what Mike Duffy disclosed, that the Conservative Party has paid $13,000 in legal fees related to his bogus expenses. That represents hours and hours of lawyers' time, working on a $90,000 deal and a cover-up with the Prime Minister's Office.

Why is Senator Duffy the only Conservative senator who had his legal fees paid? Is that the price of buying Mr. Duffy's silence about the PMO cover-up?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as we have said quite clearly, from time to time the party will assist members when they require some legal assistance.

Here again go the Liberals, with their partners the New Democrats, trying to defend these three senators and disgraced Liberal senator Mac Harb, because they took money from the Canadian taxpayers. We know the Liberals are going to defend the status quo constantly. They did that for 30 years with the senator from Puerto Vallarta. We should not expect anything different.

If only these Liberals were as passionate about repaying their illegal campaign contributions, then maybe we would make some progress, at least on one file.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Party covered Mike Duffy's legal fees in relation to his fraudulent expenses. Writing a cheque to cover expenses does not cost $13,000. This is proof of direct negotiations with the PMO to organize and cover up this scandal.

If the Prime Minister thinks that Mike Duffy's behaviour is unacceptable, why is he the only Conservative whose legal fees the party covered?

Exactly how much did the Conservatives pay to buy Mike's Duffy's silence?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I just said, from time to time of course we do assist caucus members who require legal assistance.

Let me say this again, just in passing. I have another story, because I know how much we like them. One of the first things I taught my daughters when they could speak was their address, so that if they got lost, they would know to tell the police or anybody where they lived.

Only the Liberals and the New Democrats are standing up for people who clearly do not even know where they live. These are people elevated to the Senate. I will let them stand up for those people. We will stand up for the taxpayers who want accountability, and that motion would bring it.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, no one believes the Prime Minister.

Canadians are not fools. They do not believe that this extremely controlling Prime Minister knew nothing about the $90,000 cheque given to Mike Duffy or about the 13 seasoned employees who were covering up the scandal.

If the Prime Minister was so angry about Mike Duffy's expenses, why did he authorize the Conservative Party to pay his $13,000 legal fees?

When will the Prime Minister testify under oath about this Conservative scandal?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, only the Liberals would stand up for three senators and disgraced Liberal senator Mac Harb, who have admitted they took money that they actually did not earn. Only the Liberals would stand up for those people.

What we want to do is this. We want to pass a motion that would suspend them without pay. We want to do that because Canadians cannot extract accountability from these people by throwing the senators out at the next election; so what Canadians want us to do is to pass this motion. They want the Liberals to get out of the way and let us bring accountability back to the Senate and respect taxpayer dollars, and that is what we will do.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, in referring to the Senate, the Prime Minister said, “The time for making apologies over there has long passed”.

However, on Friday, Senator Carignan offered Patrick Brazeau a deal if he apologized. Last night Conservative senators were still making deals.

Can the leader of the Conservative Party tell us why we should believe him when his senators are actively doing the opposite of what he says?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, now we hear it from the NDP. The New Democrats are also trying to defend these senators.

We are very clear: These senators accepted payments that they did not earn. They did not earn those payments. Not only should they repay those payments, but Canadians expect some level of accountability, and that level of accountability is to pass this motion in the Senate that would suspend them without pay. That is what Canadians want. That is what the overwhelming majority of the members in this caucus want. Only the Liberals and the New Democrats are defending these four disgraced senators.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Deloitte audit into Pamela Wallin included a letter from Senator David Tkachuk. He advised Ms. Wallin to withhold information from auditors, saying, “...she should restrict herself to the information that auditors asked for...”. In other words, do not co-operate any more than absolutely necessary.

Did Senator Tkachuk speak with anyone in the Prime Minister's Office about providing this advice to Pamela Wallin?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the issue here is that these three senators and disgraced Liberal Senator Mac Harb accepted thousands of dollars in expenses that they did not earn. That is the issue.

As I said yesterday, if Eugene can figure it out, and if my daughters Natalie and Olivia can figure it out, surely the NDP members can hear what all Canadians are saying, that they want accountability and they want us to pass this motion in the Senate that would suspend these senators without pay. They cannot get that from electing these senators because they have not allowed us to pass that bill, but they can expect that from us here if they would get out of the way and let us pass that motion.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am not saying that we should trust Mike Duffy implicitly, but at least he, unlike the Prime Minister, has proof to back up his stories. That is how we found out about the cheque for $13,560.

Can the Prime Minister clarify the role that Cassels Brock & Blackwell and Nelligan O'Brien Payne played in the Wright-Duffy affair?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there go the NDP members again defending poor Senator Mike Duffy. My gosh, Mike Duffy is the guy who called himself the Duffinator. He interviewed the highest people, the most powerful people, but somehow he wants us to believe what the NDP believes, that the only thing he was afraid of were kids in short pants. Give me a break. Somehow he was forced on the ground to accept $90,000 in expenses that he did not earn. He is the only one who still has not paid a dime for his expenses. He should not be rewarded, as the opposition want, by a seat in the Senate and a paycheque every two weeks.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect for my colleague, in this case, the only ones who are trying to defend anyone are the Conservatives, who are trying to hide and save face.

When the Prime Minister says that this is “why Mr. Duffy should be removed from the Senate”, does he mean with or without health care benefits?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, to hide and cover things up, how awkward that must be for the member. How awkward it must be for her to ask that question when it was her leader who 17 years ago was offered a bribe, decided to hide that and cover it up for 17 years. Think of what we could have accomplished, what the people of Quebec could have accomplished, if only he would have come clean 17 years ago with the fact that he was offered a bribe from the mayor of Laval. That is called hiding and that is called a cover-up.

Sealing Industry

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the ban on seal products adopted in the European Union was a political decision that has no basis in evidence or science. So too are calls to boycott Canadian seafood because of the seal hunt.

The radical global activists who support such bans claim they abhor eating meat, but they probably all have leather handbags and belts.

This week, Anthony Bourdain stood up for good food and our coastal and Inuit communities. Will the Minister of the Environment comment on Anthony Bourdain's defence of the seal hunt?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for that great question.

Opposition to the seal hunt has had a devastating impact on northern and coastal communities. I commend Mr. Bourdain for standing up against a decision that is not based on science. I invite Mr. Bourdain to Nunavut to take part in a traditional feast with country food like seal meat.

Our government will continue to fight for Canadian sealers and their way of life in our rural coastal communities.

Ethics

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on May 19, the Prime Minister stated, “It is with great regret that I have accepted the resignation of Nigel Wright as my chief of staff.”

Monday, on the radio program Maritime Morning, he said that Mr. Wright was fired. Then, yesterday, all of a sudden it was, “Mr. Wright no longer works for me.”

There are a lot of versions. Which is the real one?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Nigel Wright has of course accepted sole and full responsibility for his actions. He knows that what he did was wrong, and he is prepared to accept accountability for that.

At the same time, the Prime Minister has also mentioned that, had he known, he would have in no way approved such a scheme.

However, we also have an opportunity now to expect accountability from our senators, those senators who accepted funds that they were not entitled to. We need the opposition Liberals in the Senate to get out of the way so we can suspend these senators without pay.