House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cyberbullying.
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Mr. Speaker, does the government believe that Senator Irving Gerstein was wrong to try and change the findings of the Deloitte report on Mike Duffy's illegal expense claims, with internal help from Michael Runia?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, what is very important, first and foremost, is that the audit that was done was not compromised in any way. We heard yesterday from Deloitte that was in fact the case.
On Senator Gerstein, I know Senator Gerstein, as a number of us do. I know him to be a very hard-working senator, someone who takes his job very seriously. I am very proud to serve in caucus with Senator Gerstein, and I hope I do so for many years to come.
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Mr. Speaker, talk about inconsistent
Senator Mike Duffy was thrown out of the Conservative caucus, yet there have been no consequences for his fellow senators who were complicit in this scheme to repay his illegal expense claims.
Why have Senators Gerstein and Stewart Olsen still not been disciplined? Why have they not accepted any responsibility whatsoever for their involvement in this scandal?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, Senators Duffy, Wallin, and Brazeau were removed from the Senate or suspended from the Senate without pay because they accepted expenses that they did not incur. As the Prime Minister has said on a number of occasions in this place, that is not a standard that we accept on this side of the House. That is why Senator Duffy was removed from the Conservative caucus and that is why the Senate then voted to have Senators Duffy, Wallin, and Brazeau suspended without pay from the Senate.
Jonathan Tremblay NDP Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday, the Prime Minister said that he was informed on May 15 of the initial plan concerning the Conservative Party payment to Mike Duffy.
Why did he not bother to tell the House before Mike Duffy spoke about it in the Senate five months later, on October 28?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, he is quite correct that the Prime Minister did say on May 15 that he found out about this. The RCMP documents confirm that the Prime Minister did not know about this. The Prime Minister has said on a number of occasions that had he known, he would have put a stop to it.
Nigel Wright himself stated quite clearly the people he brought into his confidence with respect to the fact that he was repaying Senator Duffy's expenses. I think that is all very clear in the documents that were deposited by the RCMP with respect to affidavits filed by Nigel Wright and, of course, the documents recently filed by the RCMP.
Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was informed of the Conservative Party cheque to Mike Duffy on May 15.
Despite all of the questions we asked him, the Prime Minister never bothered to tell the House.
We want to give them another chance at being transparent.
What other similar information that they may or may not have shared with the RCMP have the Conservatives decided to keep to themselves?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, allow me to correct the hon. member. The Conservative Party did not pay Mr. Duffy's expenses that he did not incur. As we know, it was Nigel Wright who repaid those expenses. I think that should have been clear by the number of questions that the opposition has asked on this. I just wanted to make sure that she was correct on that.
Of course, the Prime Minister's Office will continue to assist the RCMP in this investigation going forward.
Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Mr. Speaker, according to the RCMP, there is an email that clearly shows that the Prime Minister's lawyer, Benjamin Perrin, was involved in the deal between Duffy and Wright, but that email was deleted along with hundreds of others.
Who deleted those emails? Who gave the order to delete them? Does the RCMP have that information?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, there are Treasury Board guidelines that are in place which outline how emails are managed by employees when they leave offices.
With respect to the amount of emails that were turned over, the RCMP, in its filing, quite clearly identified that thousands of emails were turned over. There were about 2,600 that were of interest to the RCMP and being reviewed as part of this investigation. The Prime Minister has said that he will continue to ensure that his office assists going forward.
Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Speaker, Canadians really need the truth about this issue. For weeks we have been getting farcical answers about lemonade stands and pizza delivery. I will ask a question and I hope I can get a straight answer.
On Tuesday, the Prime Minister told the House that he first became aware of the Conservative Party's Mike Duffy payoff on May 15. Therefore, why did the Prime Minister not tell the House about the payoff until five months later when Mike Duffy brought it up in the Senate on October 28?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, again, the question defies some form of logic because what the member suggested was that the Conservative Party paid off Senator Duffy's expenses and, of course, we did not. I think it is quite clear that it was Nigel Wright who paid off the expenses of Senator Duffy. We know that was not right. That is why the Prime Minister, as soon as he found out, ordered his office to assist the RCMP.
Let us be clear. It is Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy who are being investigated by the RCMP right now.
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Mr. Speaker, there is word today that several members of the Conservative caucus will be bringing forward legislation to limit the power of the Prime Minister's Office. These MPs are joining others with growing concern about the conduct of the Prime Minister's Office. A recent access to information disclosure has even revealed that there may have been inappropriate political interference with RCMP operations during emergency response.
When will the Prime Minister start addressing these concerns and rein in his office?
Pierre Poilievre ConservativeMinister of State (Democratic Reform)
Mr. Speaker, it has been great to have been missed by my friends across the floor, but I am not sure it will last more than 30 seconds.
The Prime Minister is the most democratic in Canadian history. Let me state the facts.
This is the first prime minister to reinstate the practice of a mandatory vote in Parliament before committing our troops into harms way. The Prime Minister is the first ever to have created a parliamentary process so members of Parliament, including opposition, can vet Supreme Court appointments. We have had more private members' bills passed than any government in the last 40 years. The Globe and Mail did a study and found that of all the votes that happened on the floor of the House of Commons, Conservative members were far more likely to vote independently from their party.
Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK
Mr. Speaker, in its cover-up scheme, the fraud squad in the PMO tried to corrupt a forensic audit that Deloitte was conducting on Mike Duffy: Wright instructed Rogers; Rogers enlisted Gerstein; Gerstein pressured Runia, the senior partner in a venerable firm.
Runia should have told Gerstein to get stuffed, but instead he meddled with auditors actually doing the work and attempted to breach the ethical walls.
Does the Prime Minister want to know how this corruption came about on his watch? Why does he not?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, what Deloitte said yesterday in front of the Senate was that its audit was in no way compromised at all, that the utmost in confidentiality was maintained and that the Senate could have confidence in the work that Deloitte had done. That is actually what Deloitte said.
Now, the hon. member can say whatever he wants and cast all kinds of aspersions on all kinds of people, but the facts are that Deloitte maintained confidentiality and the Canadian people and the Senate, more important, can also be confident in the work it did.
Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK
Mr. Speaker, in an email on March 8, Patrick Rogers in the PMO wrote this about Senator Gerstein, “The stage we're at now is waiting for the Senator's Contact”, that would be Mike Runia, “to get the actual Deloitte auditor on the file to agree. The Senator will call back once we have Deloitte locked in”. That is attempted tampering.
Before Mr. Runia has to face the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario on a professional complaint, will the Prime Minister give him the chance to testify to this Parliament under oath?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, it is not up to the Prime Minister to decide; it is up to committees to make that decision.
I note that yesterday the Senate brought forward the three Deloitte auditors who participated in and undertook the audit. The auditors said that their work was done with the utmost and strictest confidentiality and that all the rules were followed. Upon hearing that, I suspect that is why the senators decided that no additional witnesses were required.
Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK
Mr. Speaker, corruption in the PMO is destroying a great many people. Former business leaders like Wright and Gerstein, lawyers like Perrin, Hamilton and others, now auditors like Runia, are all bending to the will of one man, the Prime Minister, who demands cult-like obedience.
The fraud squad in the PMO drank the Kool-Aid, it broke every rule in the book and the police are closing in. Will the Prime Minister show some respect for the office he holds and allow Runia and Gerstein to testify to this Parliament under oath?
Paul Calandra ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, there is another question from the opposition that brings the value of this Parliament down. I am sure the members opposite will complain about my answer. I know the good people in the press gallery will get all upset with me because I refuse to answer such a ridiculous question.
Rosane Doré Lefebvre NDP Alfred-Pellan, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence is avoiding answering questions about spying on Canadian soil during the G20 summit, which only raises more concerns.
We know that Communications Security Establishment Canada cannot legally spy on Canadians. We also know that it cannot ask its partners to violate Canadian laws.
The question that the Conservatives refuse to answer is simple. Did they allow the United States to conduct surveillance operations in Canada, yes or no?
James Bezan ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence
Mr. Speaker, we cannot comment on specific foreign intelligence activities or capabilities. However, what I can say is that all of this organization's activities, as was already alluded to by the member, are reviewed by an independent watchdog, the Commissioner of Communications Security Establishment, who has access to all the documents related to the operations of this agency and also its personnel. For 16 years, the commissioner has reported that CSEC continues to act lawfully and conduct all of its current activities under the law.
This organization is prohibited from targeting Canadians at home and abroad. Furthermore, CSEC cannot ask our international partners to act in any way that circumvents Canadian law.
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Mr. Speaker, the government is ducking the most obvious and important question here. The issue is whether Canadian intelligence agencies, or anyone in the government, authorized or assisted the United States National Security Agency to spy on Canadian soil during the G8 and G20.
It is pretty simple. The question is this. Did the government allow a foreign agency to spy within Canada's borders? We need an intelligent answer on intelligence. Could it provide us that at least?
James Bezan ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence
Mr. Speaker, under the law, this organization is prohibited from targeting Canadians. All of this organization's activities are reviewed by the independent watchdog, the Commissioner for CSEC, who has access to all the documents and who, for 16 years now, has reported that it is operating underneath all Canadian laws. CSEC cannot do indirectly what it is prohibited from doing directly.
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Mr. Speaker, trans-Pacific partnership negotiations are ongoing, but the intellectual property chapter has recently been leaked to the public. We now know that countries, including the U.S., Australia and Japan, are pushing aggressively for measures that would restrict open access to the Internet and raise the price of prescription medicines in Canada.
Canadians deserve to know what their government is putting on the table on their behalf. Could the minister update us on the government's position on these important TPP issues?