Debates of Feb. 5th, 2013

Opposition Motion—Employment Insurance Program

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. Liberal colleague can brag about his government's track record but, really, his government's record is horrible. He spoke about changes that were made in 1996. We know that these changes brutally reduced access to employment insurance benefits. Since 1996, between 40% and 50% of applicants have been eligible for employment insurance, while the eligibility rate in the 1970s and 1980s was between 70% and 90%.

Under the Liberals, unemployed workers also saw their access to this program significantly reduced. We also know that the Liberals pillaged the employment insurance fund. Rather than decrease contributions or increase benefits, the Liberals stole $54 billion from this fund that belongs to the unemployed workers and businesses that contribute to it.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to hear what the hon. member has to say about the following fact.

We know that wages will drop by 30%, because people will have to accept jobs at 70% of what they earned previously. It is my opinion, and the opinion of many NDP MPs, that this will lead to lower wages. We think businesses will offer lower wages to employees who would normally take these jobs at a 30% higher wage.

So I would like to know what the member thinks about that. Is she not afraid the country will face a crisis, an economic deflation?

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly it. When I went door-to-door in my riding, I saw that everyone was worried about these changes. People know that this will lead to lower wages for everyone.

However, I want to focus on another important point, because I heard my colleagues on the government side brag about their job-creation record. As it stands, there are five unemployed workers for every available job in Canada. So it is not the workers' fault if they cannot find employment. It is the Conservative government's fault, since it has not managed to create enough jobs for Canadians. As I mentioned in my speech, only four out of 10 unemployed workers receive EI benefits. So right there, we can see that it is a very limited program that is not accessible to all workers.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the government has made it clear that Canadians cannot expect the employment insurance program that they have paid into during and throughout their working lives to be there when they need it.

Cuts to Service Canada have resulted in drastic cuts to EI processing times, meaning that people are not receiving their payments when they are desperately needing them.

If members do not believe me, they should take a look at the statistics of what has happened to EI processing under the Conservatives. Service Canada's own benchmarks state that 80% of all EI applications should receive either a payment or notice of non-payment within 28 days.

Over the past two years, more than one in four applicants have received no response. In western Canada that number rises to one in three. In February 2012, more than half of all respondents still had not heard back from Service Canada within the normal time frame.

What about the EI call centres? In 2007, Service Canada's standard was that 95% of all calls would be answered in 180 seconds. The Conservatives cut this back to 80% in 2008. Yet in 2011-2012, less than a quarter of all calls were answered in 180 seconds.

The Conservatives also significantly weakened the service standards for call-backs from two to five days. Yet only half of call-backs happen within five days. Unfortunately, the cuts in service are not unexpected.

Let us not forget that this is the government in which the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development is more interested in vilifying EI recipients than working out the problems in the system. It is led by a Prime Minister who told the American Council for National Policy that “In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance”.

The government's message is essentially that unemployed people are at fault for being unemployed.

Let me give an example from my own community as to why this view is shortsighted. In my community of Sudbury, even a relatively modest change in the price of nickel on the international markets can have a dramatic effect on the job market. If the price rises, companies of course look to expand and the demand for jobs outstrips supply. However, if the price drops, expansion, research and development can be put on hold, and suddenly very qualified individuals find themselves out of work due to no fault of their own.

It is precisely because of these types of swings and changes in the employment patterns that EI is important not only for the individuals who receive it but for the communities as a whole.

Most important, EI is an insurance program. It is a separate fund from other government revenues, and it is designed to provide temporary financial assistance to Canadians in specific circumstances: unemployed Canadians who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, as well as those who are sick or pregnant, as well as those who must care for a family member who is seriously ill with a significant risk of death.

The very nature of these situations means that delays in receiving funds, which Canadians are legitimately authorized to access, can cause significant hardship.

I talked with some of my colleagues earlier about how an individual in the riding of one of them had to wait over a year and a half, losing his home and then having to sleep on a couch with his family in another home. I could give examples from my own riding of Sudbury.

I talked earlier about a young man in his late twenties standing outside my office door at 7 o'clock in the morning to make sure that he would find one of my staff or myself, because he had been waiting since November, and this was in January, to find out whether or not he qualified for EI. All he wanted was the phone call. He is worried about how he will put food on the table this week for his family.

This is atrocious. We need to ensure that Canadians who have relied on this system can access these funds to ensure they are keeping their homes and feeding their families. Unfortunately, the changes being made by the Conservative government are in complete disregard of any of this.

I have also talked with CP rail workers in my community. They work hard all summer and fall and rely on the EI system to get them through the winter. All of this is changing.

One of the workers mentioned to me that every year at this time he shuts off his Internet service to make sure he can make ends meet. However, because he is shutting off his Internet service, he is now concerned that he will not qualify, with all of the new rules and regulations that the Conservatives are putting forward, because he needs to be able to accept two emails a day on these job postings. He said: “If I can't afford Internet, what am I supposed to do? EI is being cut back and now they're punishing me for trying to save money to put food on the table.”

The whole system that the Conservatives have brought forward has become ridiculous. None of it is supporting Canadian workers who have lost their job through no fault of their own, but is just coming forward on an ideology.

What explicitly are New Democrats asking for with this motion? We are asking for five simple changes that will make life much fairer for Canadians. First, reinstate the extra five weeks pilot project. Second, remove the new definitions of reasonable search and suitable employment for EI claimants. Third, reverse the changes to the working while on claim pilot project. Fourth, reinstate the EI appeal tribunal process. Fifth, reverse the cuts to Service Canada, which are leading to increased processing times.

I will talk a little about each of these statements.

The extra five weeks program granted an extended EI benefit for up to five additional weeks to Canadians living in regions with high unemployment, which unfortunately would include my area of Sudbury. This extra five weeks meant that eligible workers could receive up to 50 weeks of employment insurance benefits.

I do not know if members know anybody who gets an EI cheque, but it is not a lucrative living, as the minister has said. When they are taking these extra five weeks, it is to make sure there is food on the table and the bills are paid. They are not living the high life. By scrapping this, the Conservatives are again punishing Canadians in regions that have high unemployment.

As I mentioned, the extra five weeks for eligible workers who could receive 50 weeks is a program that has helped 313,000 workers in 2010-11 by preventing a gap in income for seasonal workers between the end of EI benefits and the start of their employment season. The program replaced another pilot project started in 2004, and its cancellation means that 2013 will be the first year since then that there will be no extra weeks to benefit available workers in high unemployment regions. This change will push many families into financial crisis, and businesses are worried that the cancellation of the program will force seasonal workers to move, depriving areas of highly skilled workers and exacerbating regional divides in Canada.

This is something that is so true in northern Ontario and in Sudbury. I know my colleague from Nickel Belt could speak to this as well. We are in constant need of skilled workers up in Sudbury. We bring them in and then we create programs like this that send them off to other areas. We really need a stable EI program, and those are the things we are talking about in the five recommendations that we have brought forward.

The definition of reasonable search and suitable employment means that unemployed Canadians will be forced to accept jobs paying up to 30% less than their previous position, driving down wages for all Canadians. Let us not even talk about income equality. We need a whole other debate to talk about that, but this continues to drive that whole piece down.

Service Canada would also force claimants to drive an hour outside of their own community to find work. In northern Ontario, between Sudbury and Espanola or Sudbury and Sturgeon Falls, there is absolutely no public transportation, but that is within the one-hour time frame. Therefore, if there is a job in either of these communities, or vice versa, from Espanola to Sturgeon Falls back into Sudbury, how are workers expected to get there, especially in winter? We only have two-lane highways in Sudbury and they get dangerous. We want to ensure the safety of all Canadians, not put more people on the road to try to take a job that pays them less and that does not even help their family.

The changes that the Conservatives are proposing are actually detrimental to Canadians, and I am proud to stand up and talk to this motion today.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the member's point when he talks about the Service Canada cuts, because that has had a very profound impact on a wide variety of services. There is no doubt about that. What makes the delay in processing employment insurance so critical is that, at the end of the day, our constituents continue to pay bills. Those do not stop because of lengthier processing.

The government needs to be more sensitive to the fact that it is not acceptable to have these untimely delays. They have far-reaching ramifications for such things as the ability to pay bills and put food on the table, to which the member made reference. The government should make it a priority to make sure these offices are adequately staffed, so that cheques can be issued in a more timely fashion, so that we do not have people waiting, indefinitely, it seems at times. If they are waiting for money, it does feel like an indefinite period of time from their perspective.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member is bang on in his analogy. When we have a government that continues to drive through omnibus budget bills that continue to cut the services that Canadians rely on, this is what we get. When we have ministers saying they are only cutting in the back rooms but we actually see front-line staff and services disappear, this is what we get. Canadians are suffering because of it, and EI changes are actually making people wait months and, in extreme cases, years.

That is completely unacceptable, because it is Canadians who are paying into EI to ensure they have insurance if that unfortunate time comes. They are making sure they can provide for their families and if, unfortunately, they lose their job and they need to turn to EI, they find that the system is disappearing under the Conservatives,.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Sudbury is certainly correct in his analysis of skilled labour in Northern Ontario. However, I am going to ask him a different question, one on tourism.

He has tourism in his riding, as do I in my riding. There is a tourism resort in the French River area, and I remember last summer the owner was having a lot of problems getting seasonal workers. It gets tougher and tougher to get seasonal workers sometimes. The community of Killarney relies on tourism. It is the only thing they have there.

I would like my hon. colleague from Sudbury to explain to the members across the way what these changes are going to do to places like the French River area and Killarney that rely on tourism.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague and also my neighbouring MP. His riding surrounds Sudbury. It is like the donut and the Timbit, but we do share a lot of things hand in hand, especially when it comes to tourism. In northern Ontario, Sudbury and Nickel Belt, we have really worked hard at establishing that we are a tourism destination, from Science North to the great Ramsey Lake, right in the city, to Killarney and the French River.

We do things every year in our community to talk about bringing folks up to northern Ontario, up to Sudbury. We have been successful with it. We have had businesses opening and succeeding. However, unfortunately, what has happened now is that these seasonal workers who we have been able to bring up cannot stay in northern Ontario, because we continue to have policies brought forward by the government that actually change the way they can survive when it is not tourism season in northern Ontario. What we have seen is that great people come up, and we have started things and have been very successful at them, but then they have to leave because the government does not identify the importance of supporting seasonal workers from tourism to forestry, to even school bus drivers and crossing guards.

This whole system we have established can be beneficial, but unfortunately the Conservatives are changing it to make it the complete opposite.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time today with the Minister of Veterans Affairs. I am pleased to rise and speak to this opposition motion on employment insurance. Most importantly, I am also pleased to address some of the misguided, misinformed and politically motivated messages that have been put forward by members of the opposition and big unions in an attempt to mislead Canadians about what the EI changes will do.

As the member of Parliament for Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, I know how sensitive the topic of EI changes is. It is unfortunate that some opposition parties have intended to exaggerate what these changes mean, and are trying to do with fear what they could not do with reason during the last election, that is, getting more votes.

The changes our government has made to EI aim to ensure that Canadians are always better off working than not working. Quite simply, by accepting a reasonable job under the new definition, Canadians will actually increase their income from what they would collect on EI.

The extra five weeks pilot project that the NDP members refer to in their opposition motion today was a temporary measure aimed at providing extra EI benefits to those Canadians who were hardest hit during the darkest days of the recession. The pilot project was always intended to be temporary.

Since the dark days of the recession, we have seen over 920,000 net new jobs created in Canada. Canada is on a road to sustained economic recovery. Ninety per cent of those jobs are full time; 75% are in the private sector. These are good, well-paying jobs for Canadians. Indeed, there are more jobs coming. Statistics Canada reports that in the fall there were 268,000 job vacancies across this country. As we know, in Nova Scotia and Atlantic Canada, with our new shipbuilding contract, there are economic opportunities ahead of us for all areas of the Maritimes and Atlantic Canada, not just Halifax.

Employers across Canada have made it clear that there is a significant skills and labour shortage, and that is why it is so important that we help Canadians connect with those employers. That is why our government is investing in connecting Canadians with jobs in their local labour markets. We want to ensure that Canadians always have the first crack at Canadian jobs by helping them connect to those available jobs before foreign workers can be brought in from other lands.

This will help us address the growing skills and labour shortage in Canada by helping Canadians who want to work get back to work. At the same time, we recognize that there are Canadians who are having difficulty finding work, particularly in parts of the country where the economy is still based on seasonal industries. This is also why we have invested heavily in skills and training to ensure that Canadians have the skills and training they need to gain employment in the marketplace.

For those who live in areas of high unemployment and are unable to find jobs, the employment insurance system will be there for them. It always has been.

These improvements are only the most recent in a series of economic action plan measures introduced by our government to support jobs, growth and long-term prosperity. One of the programs that helped us achieve this economic success is the work-sharing program. It has helped both employees and employers alike to endure the rockier parts of our economic recovery.

Through the economic action plan, our Conservative government has made the work-sharing program more accessible, and extended it to help minimize the effects of the economic downturn on Canadian companies and their employees, companies like Stanfield's in my home town of Truro that used the work-sharing program to keep many employees at work and its factory open in the darkest days of the recession.

This program works by helping businesses avoid temporary layoffs when elements beyond their control force a reduction in the regular level of activity at the business. If workers agree to a reduced work while their employer recovers, they may receive EI benefits, effectively allowing two or three workers to share one job. This allows employers to retain their skilled and experienced employees and avoid the costly process of recruiting and training new employees when business levels return to normal.

This program is a win-win proposition both for the employers, who rely on the experienced hands of their long-term workers, and the employees who are able to keep their jobs and maintain their skills and training.

We also want to better align the calculation of weekly EI benefits with local labour market conditions. As of April, the amount a claimant receives per week will be determined using an average of their earnings over their best weeks of employment. In higher unemployment regions, fewer best weeks will be used in this calculation. This will result in much-higher average earnings if several high-paying weeks are used in the calculation, as opposed to all the weeks, which may include some weeks with little or no income.

This change will ensure that workers employed in seasonal industries do not turn down work in the off-season for fear it will decrease the average used to calculate their benefits. No more will this system be a detriment to someone taking a job.

In short, this new variable weeks program will make it more beneficial for workers to accept all available work in slower employment seasons. It is another example of how our government is looking to balance the EI system. We want to ensure that Canadians are always better off working than not working. Unlike the divisive policies of the NDP that try to pit one region of Canada against another, our government believes in programs like work sharing that are equally available across Canada.

We know that Canadians are eager and willing to put their skills to work in the over 920,000 net new jobs that have been created since July 2009 and we know that Canadians do not want the $21 billion carbon tax imposed on them by the NDP. That would be on top of a $3.8 billion in proposed new annual spending on the EI program, spending that would be paid out of the pockets of hard-working Canadians and small businesses, who would have to pay up to 15% more a year in premiums, a cost they could little afford in these fragile economic times.

Our economic action plan is showing results. The measures we have introduced to support job growth and long-term prosperity have given us the strongest growth numbers in the G7. This is why our government is removing the disincentives to work that existed within the former EI system to ensure that we can match Canadians with available jobs in their local labour markets appropriate to their skill sets. It bears repeating that should jobs not be available in someone's local area, the employment insurance system will continue to be available. It always has been.

As a member of Parliament from Atlantic Canada, I want to assure my constituents that the personal circumstances of any EI claimant will be taken into account when determining suitable employment for them. As a member from Nova Scotia, I urge my fellow Atlantic MPs to stop the fearmongering and support the economic action plan that is delivering results for Canadians in all corners of our country, including Atlantic Canada, and to please vote against today's opposition motion.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the member from Nova Scotia.

The government is increasingly using employment insurance as a tax to pay for certain things that have nothing to do with the program. I am just telling it like it is.

What is it for? People take out home insurance because in the winter it gets cold and pipes freeze. It would be like telling them that their insurance is no longer valid in December, January and February. But for the rest of the year, the insurance is valid. That is what is being done with EI. The people who need it most are being excluded and are ending up in that famous black hole. They are being told that there are no more benefits. The government is cutting off people when they need it most.

Could the member explain that, because his constituents are not too happy.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Mr. Speaker, our government is supporting workers across this country and we are supporting workers in Atlantic Canada. In addition to making these EI changes to remove the disincentive to people going to work, we are actually transferring billions of dollars to the provinces for skills and training upgrades. This is in addition to the changes we have made to EI. In short, we are supporting workers to get a job, and we are supporting workers who cannot find a job to get the training they need to get that job.

Our government stands behind workers and EI is always there for someone, particularly in the rural areas with high seasonal employment like tourism. The only job that people will be asked to take is one that exists in their community, within their skill set and in their salary range. We are going to connect them to those jobs. This policy is good policy for Atlantic Canada and it is good policy for the rest of the country.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite interested in the hon. member's suggestion that this is good policy for Atlantic Canada. I am sure that the voters in his riding would be very impressed by his spirited defence of the EI reforms. People are not so pleased about them in Prince Edward Island, where we have a higher percentage of frequent users of the system than any other province, as we are dependent on tourism, agriculture and fishing as our three main industries.

My question relates to the downloading of the costs of the poverty that will result from these changes. People are going to get knocked off the EI rolls and onto the welfare rolls. I would like the member to outline the steps that have been taken to consult with provincial governments. I can tell the member that in Prince Edward Island, the governing Liberals and the Progressive Conservatives are dead set against the policies of the federal government with respect to this issue. Therefore, I want to know what consultations took place with Atlantic Canadian provincial governments before implementing these changes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the difference between us and some of the opposition parties when it comes to building the economy in Atlantic Canada is that we want to build an economy on jobs and growth. That is why we are investing in shipbuilding. That is why we gave the loan guarantee to the lower Churchill, Muskrat Falls project. We are going to build and create jobs in Atlantic Canada. We want an economy in Atlantic Canada that is not based on the EI system but on jobs and growth, real jobs so that people can work and support their families.

Anyone who encourages seasonal employees not to take a job available in their own area and that meets their own personal circumstances is not doing them any favours, because when seasonal employees draw EI they are not contributing to their CPP and their employer is not contributing to CPP.

I want to know what that party will do about seniors' poverty. A lot of people who have not had the opportunity to work in the off season will have a lower CPP benefit when they retire. It is always better to be working than not working. It is always better to get a cheque, because that way not only is personal income being built, but also the CPP benefit for the future. That is something I have not heard many opposition members talk about.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would like first to congratulate my colleague from Nova Scotia, the member for Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, on having generated wealth and employment in Nova Scotia and in the Atlantic provinces.

I would like in turn to comment on the motion respecting employment insurance changes introduced in the House by the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, and to express clearly my disagreement with the NDP's position on the issue.

The employment insurance plan is the most important Canadian program devoted to the labour market, and Canadians rely on it to assist them financially when they are temporarily out of work and are looking for a job. I have myself received employment insurance benefits. It is a useful and necessary program for all working people.

We know that those who remain active in the labour market are more likely to find permanent work more quickly. Permanent jobs are what provides stability and makes it possible to improve living conditions for Canadian families and Canadian regions. There is no doubt that most Canadians want to work, and are actively looking for employment while receiving employment insurance benefits. That is one of the principles of the system.

The changes we are making to the employment insurance plan are necessary to ensure that it remains fair and efficient. One of the goals is to help workers find jobs more quickly, preserve jobs and ensure that Canadian workers have more money in their pockets.

The measures we announced in the 2012 economic action plan are ensuring that the employment insurance plan is now better suited to Canadians’ needs, more flexible and more equitable. They also ensure that the plan helps Canadians stay active in the labour market, and find employment more quickly. How? Members will agree with me that it is does not make sense for employment insurance claimants to be looking for work, on the one hand, for jobs to be available, and for those concerned not to speak to each other. That is what the new measures introduced by our minister are bringing about, in every part of the country.

We are proposing and putting in place a better way of connecting Canadians with job opportunities in their local area. We have also clarified the responsibilities of claimants while they are receiving regular employment insurance benefits. For example, we realized that some people have difficulty in finding a job, or in seeing what jobs are available in their region. Sometimes they are unaware that their skills, particularly those of seasonal workers, which are remarkable, could meet the needs of other industries during the off-season.

That is why we undertook to enable Canadians receiving regular employment insurance benefits to receive daily notification of job offers from various sources in their region, in order to assist their job search.

We have also provided clear definitions in the regulations for “suitable employment” and “reasonable job search.” We believe these clarifications reinforce the responsibilities of claimants receiving regular benefits and will help them in their active job search, in order to accept suitable employment.

Contrary to what the opposition claims, we have no thought whatever of compelling people to accept jobs for which they do not have the skills—we are dealing here with the kind of urban myths perpetuated by the opposition—or asking them move to another part of the country, or accept underpaid work, as some people have wrongly claimed.

This is about clarifying claimants' responsibility when receiving EI benefits and sticking to clear parameters. The new and enhanced job alert system has been introduced to provide Canadians with better, more relevant information on employment.

The employment insurance system to which workers and employers contribute is designed to provide temporary income support. It is not designed to provide an income supplement when people choose not to work. That goes without saying and everyone knows that.

It is important to note that those who do not manage to find work will still be able to rely on the employment insurance program. Again, those who are not able to find work can still count on the EI system.

In our desire to better connect Canadians with available jobs, we have also improved coordination between the EI system and the temporary foreign worker program.

It is very simple, and the objective is clear. We just want employers to consider hiring Canadians before foreign workers, and we want foreign workers to be hired where we need them most. Let us first meet our needs with Canadian workers, and then let us get additional help abroad, if necessary. This is just common sense. It is a sensible and reasonable measure. Let us first offer Canadian jobs to our own workers. Then, if necessary, we can turn to foreign workers.

We have also adopted a new Canada-wide method to calculate EI benefits, so that people living in regions with similar labour market conditions can be eligible for the same benefits. We are talking about fairness for all regions of the country and a flexible system that takes into consideration the employment insurance rate.

That is why we are convinced that these new initiatives, which are being implemented, will help more Canadians find work, and will put more money in workers' pockets. These measures will provide greater support to people looking for work. A daily report will inform them of available jobs in their region. In addition, as I mentioned, thanks to these measures people will have more money if they work than if they merely collect EI benefits.

Our government is committed to making targeted and sensible changes to the EI system, for the benefit of Canadians and the whole country. I hope opposition members will support our efforts to connect available jobs with workers who are looking for work. This will create wealth and prosperity in all our regions, particularly in areas that are so dear to us, like Lévis—Bellechasse and Les Etchemins.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I listened very closely to the member for Lévis—Bellechasse. What would he say to the people from out east, to the women who want to go work as cleaners in Fort McMurray, where the men have gone? They are being told that there is no work, yet temporary foreign workers are being brought in from the Philippines, China and other countries. People from eastern Canada want to go work there, but they are being told that there is nothing there, that they cannot go. What would he say to those people?

What would he say to the scaffolder who called me yesterday? He wanted to go work in Alberta, but he cannot because companies there have hired Americans. Our people cannot go work there. What would he say to those people?

What would he say to the woman out east who this morning was visited by an employee from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada who was delivering some forms and who told her that if she did not try to find a job by 1 p.m. the next day, he would see her in his office and take away her employment insurance benefits? What would he say to those people?

I would like to hear from the member for Lévis—Bellechasse, who says that the government is doing such wonderful work and that the Conservatives are there to help people find jobs. But really, they are there to cut people's employment insurance. That is what they are doing.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst for his question. It gives me an opportunity to clarify an extremely important point that I referred to earlier: the urban legends being spread by the opposition.

What must be understood is that in every case, it must always be to the worker's advantage. Take a seasonal worker during the off-season. It must always be to the worker's advantage to be out working rather than drawing benefits. That means that we take the costs of travel, gasoline and vehicle expenses into account. We also look at whether or not the person has a vehicle.

Judgment must be exercised. Unfortunately, the opposition would like to take people from the Magdalen Islands and send them to Gaspé, and so on. That is not a good idea. It is time we had a reasonable, sensible debate, in order to match workers to the jobs that exist in each region.

At present in Lévis—Bellechasse and Les Etchemins, the unemployment rate is among the lowest in Quebec and comparable to that in Calgary and Edmonton. Still, we have to ensure that our seasonal workers can take advantage of these opportunities and keep more money in their pockets.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I indicated in my earlier question that Prince Edward Island primarily has a seasonal economy. There are some good-paying, permanent jobs that some people are fortunate enough to have. Some of them are at the national headquarters of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Excuse me for commenting on the irony of being able to talk to the Minister of Veterans Affairs about employment insurance, given that many of the employees within his department, as part of this downsizing, may find themselves having to avail themselves of that program. As the House may know, the cuts to the civil service in my riding and in my province are double what they are in the rest of the country.

My question relates to dealing with the people who are now on employment insurance who have to go to Service Canada. The minister is closing district offices, is downsizing Veterans Affairs and is telling the veterans to go to Service Canada. We are gutting the EI system and are telling those on EI to go to Service Canada.

In Prince Edward Island, Service Canada is being cut from 113 front-line employees to 61. How will these people be able to serve the increased needs of the veterans and the increased number of people seeking employment when the actual number of front-line workers in Service Canada is being cut by 46% in my province?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, whether the topic is employment insurance or reduction in spending to achieve efficient service, the opposition keeps getting tangled up in urban legends.

Allow me to repeat a point. One of the great resources of this country is its efficient, effective public service. I am proud to lead a department with the majority of its employees located in Charlottetown. It is a proven model of decentralized management. I can assure the House that we take care to see that our public servants are treated well. In the coming years, through the natural process of attrition, a number of them will retire. That is part of our forecast reduction in spending.

As for employment insurance and Service Canada, Prince Edward Island has a number of Service Canada offices, and veterans can also access these services. We believe that the various departments of the government should not work separately, but should work together. That is why Service Canada is able to offer front-line services to veterans in more than 600 locations across the country.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to say that I will be sharing my time with the member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

The reform we are looking at starts out very badly. It starts by denying the geographic, demographic and social facts of life in Canada. If we had a uniform country, like a kind of great plain with the same resources distributed uniformly across it, this reform might work very well, but Canada is made up of more variety than that.

There is also the historical aspect. When Canada was created, the Canadian west was a vast empty space with a pile of buffalo bones and subsistence farming. What financed the construction of the transcontinental railway and the development of the west were the economy and the banks of Halifax and Montreal. They monopolized whatever savings and capital there were for 50 years, so that the rest of Canada, Ontario and the west, could be developed.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it no longer works. It seemed to me that there was an agreement, that the wealth would be shared from one end of the country to the other and there would be some degree of mutual support. It would appear that phase has come to an end.

In addition, this reform does not have the unanimous support of Canadians, at least if I go by what I hear from my constituents. In fact, I cannot really repeat what they said here, because I would have to set parliamentary language aside. No one is happy with this reform, because it does not stand up for a second. It is absurd and inconsistent.

The best comparison I can make when I look at the minister to whom this reform has been assigned is that it is as if someone wanted to send a milk wagon horse out wearing blinkers to run the barrel race at the Calgary Stampede. It does not make any sense. The government has to start realizing how big a mistake it has made.

For months now, absolutely no one has come to me and said that the government was right in proposing this reform and that the system needed to be put in order because some people were abusing it. I have never heard anyone say that. People are starting to organize seriously. I have received letters and resolutions from municipalities in my riding asking me to speak up and protest against this reform. It is not just unemployed people who will be directly affected; employers, municipalities and entire regions will be as well. This will result in a loss of expertise.

For example, a person who works maintaining the trails at Mont Tremblant has to stop when the snow starts to melt. I have another example: a young father wrote to me. He is a technician who works on boats and personal watercraft. When the season ends, he works for a few weeks doing maintenance and storing boats for the winter. In the spring, it starts up again. He works on preparations for the upcoming season. In between, he would have to take a chainsaw to the lake to open it up. Reality is sometimes tedious, but we have to face it.

Members on the other side of the House need to get used to doing this.

The minister spoke earlier of information about employment being available online. That is all well and good, but in certain areas in my riding, there is no high-speed Internet. The limited Internet service only works very early in the morning and around dinnertime. Outside these periods, it is impossible to receive or send e-mail. Before overhauling the system and automating the services, the Conservatives should at least ensure that people have access to the Internet.

There is also the question of an acceptable distance between a person's home and place of employment. If a person lives 80 km from the nearest major road, has to travel on dangerous roads and share the road with convoys of forestry trucks, it is not easy. When it is -30 or -35 °C, it is important to have a reliable vehicle with good tires. Generally speaking, that is not the kind of vehicle that unemployed persons drive.

The money in the employment insurance fund does not belong to the government. It belongs to workers and employers. It is a fund to which businesses and employees contribute. It is intended to help people get through the toughest periods of their lives. The government is now making these periods even tougher by imposing an increasing number of constraints.

In the long term, when an individual reaches the end of the road, so to speak, he will be forced to accept a job that pays 30% less, and if he changes jobs a second time, his income would drop a further 30%; where will it end? Do the Conservatives intend to do away with the minimum wage?

Earlier, the minister spoke of the availability of workers for agricultural jobs. It is certainly true that these jobs should be offered to Canadians ahead of foreign workers, but what will happen if, every year, an employer brings in workers from Central America to pick strawberries and there is unemployment in his region? Will he still be able to have them come? There is much ambiguity around this. This kind of ambiguity only leads to more questions. It results in insecurity and uncertainty.

Will the Conservatives reveal their intentions and tell Canadians whether or not they have a plan?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have heard many things said today. The Conservatives have said, among other things, that our perception constitutes an urban myth.

I am sorry, but when a minister states that the unemployed are the “bad guys”, that is not an urban myth. It is a reality. When a minister from the Maritime provinces says that the unemployed are people who take advantage of their period of unemployment to go hunting and fishing, it is not an urban myth: it is an insult.

When another minister tells us to our faces that people are essentially frauds, and we have to hire inspectors and ask them to cut $40,000 a month in employment insurance benefits, I am sorry, but we are no longer dealing with urban myths. We are dealing with the truth. It is not us who are dividing workers. It is they who are deciding that the unemployed are no longer workers, but frauds. It is they who are deciding that the Maritime provinces are populated only by people who do not want to work. The reality is that we have gone from 1 million unemployed to 1.4 million unemployed. That is a reality of their economics.

I would like the member to tell us the truth clearly, and why people are not working. It is quite simply because there are no jobs.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is a reality that the people opposite refuse to see. People have been settled in some regions and parts of the country for hundreds of years. They have developed a way of life that has enabled them to establish communities, build cities and organize a complete social life.

For years, the country has benefited from these people’s efforts. Life was good when cod sold for good prices in Britain, and Newfoundland exported tons of cod to Europe. It generated revenue for Canada.

However, the destruction of the industry by the federal government generated thousands of unemployed. Now that the market is shrinking, it is becoming increasingly difficult for the regions. We must not abandon specific regions, but should continue to support them so that they can develop economic alternatives.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before the holidays, Le Devoir published an article—with evidence to support it—that exposed the government's plan to use this reform to cut funding for 8,000 claimants who are currently receiving employment insurance. The government was also anticipating savings of $30 million to $35 million a year.

The government's objectives with this reform are clear, even though the Conservatives claim that they are trying to help employers find workers and vice versa.

At the end of the day, one of the primary goals of the reform is to deny benefits to claimants who have made their contributions and who, under the old system, would have been entitled to benefits.

I would like to hear what my colleague from Laurentides—Labelle has to say about this article that revealed the Conservative government's plan.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, an article like that makes it easy to believe. Everything always comes back to the economy and alleged job creation. I say “alleged”, because 15% of young people who are unemployed are not in the mood to brag or boast.

This is obviously a hidden and vicious attack on certain regions of the country where the Conservatives may not have gotten very good political support.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, do the words ”Notre région au pouvoir” ring a bell with you? That was the Conservative Party's slogan in Quebec during the 2011 election. When we look at the employment insurance reform that is being imposed on the regions of Quebec, we see that they—particularly the one that I have the honour and privilege of representing—are being directly attacked and are going to pay a high price.

In my region, a major movement is currently underway. People are aware of the consequences of employment insurance reform and they can see its negative effects. We have seen demonstrations on the Magdalen Islands, in the Gaspé, in the Lower St. Lawrence, along the upper north shore and the lower north shore, in Charlevoix and in the Maritimes. People are rising up because they know what this reform will mean for their communities, for their economy and for the future of their regions.

Despite all the noise that the government is trying to make and all the confusion it is trying to spread about the reform, there are two main reasons why the Conservatives have imposed this employment insurance reform.

First, it is true that there is a labour shortage in some regions of the country, in some communities and in some sectors, especially in Alberta. We recognize that. But reforming employment insurance in an attempt to better connect those looking for jobs and employers through policies will apply from coast to coast to coast is about the worst way imaginable of attaining that goal. In my opinion, it is the least effective, the least efficient way of going about it.

The second goal that the Conservatives had in mind—and it is clearly spelled out in the article I mentioned just now—is to shorten the list of those who can claim employment insurance benefits. People may have paid into the program for years, but the government is trying to make them ineligible for employment insurance. The government even came right out and said that it was hoping to save $35 million per year. Would it actually be saving money? No, that is money contributed by employers and employees, money that will be taken away from the claimants who need it when they are unemployed.

This idea of restricting EI eligibility is the crux of the issue, and it was once again exposed last Friday in Le Devoir. The article referred to the quotas imposed on Service Canada employees. They are being asked to find annual “savings” of $40,000. Of course, the main purpose was to eliminate fraudsters in our society. That is absolutely right.

However, when the government imposes quotas, when it asks every employee to find savings of $40,000, and when it imposes new EI eligibility rules, it is no longer fighting fraudsters who should not be collecting EI benefits. Rather, it is trying to find a way to exclude perfectly eligible and legitimate claimants, based on purely technical criteria or even mistakes.

The government might argue that these people have access to an appeal process if they are erroneously denied EI benefits. Let us talk about this appeal process. Until now, we had boards of referees made up of some 800 employees, many working part-time. Each board was familiar with the realities of its regional economy. However, as of next April, these boards of referees will no longer exist. The government is replacing them with a social security tribunal that will deal not only with employment insurance, but also with pensions and other federal benefits.

Under the board of referees system—which worked relatively well—one could file an appeal and a decision would be issued within a month. Therefore, a legitimate claimant could receive his benefits one month after appealing.

In the case of the social security tribunal, which will employ only 70 people across the country, a legitimate claimant may have to wait up to eight months before getting his due. Can an EI claimant afford to wait eight months before receiving his benefits? This shows how the Conservative approach to the EI issue is totally out of touch with reality, particularly the reality of our regions, because this is very much about them.

Despite the efforts that have been made, some of them in eastern Quebec, which I am honoured to represent and where the economy has been greatly diversified compared to conditions there 10 or 15 years ago, a large part of the economy still relies on seasonal work. I am choosing my words carefully. We are not talking about seasonal workers, but seasonal work. Since we are in a resource-based region, this work is mostly in the tourism, agriculture, fishery and forestry sectors. That is the reality in our regions.

At the moment, the Conservative government—for its own purposes—is completely disrupting and overturning the way our economy operates. It is doing that through its EI reforms. If the government wants to debate diversification of regional economies, we are ready. We should hold that debate here in the House, and the Quebec National Assembly could hold one, too. Still, the government never mentions regional economic diversification; it prefers to operate within the employment insurance system, which should be providing insurance benefits to claimants and taking our regional reality into account.

It is not just rural regions that are affected. Urban areas also should be alert to the effects of this reform. While the resource-based regions may depend on tourism, agriculture, fisheries and forestry, other sectors are also deeply affected by this reform. For example, construction workers often work on three- to eight-month contracts. At the end of a contract, because of a weak real estate market or slow housing starts, they may find themselves without work for several months as they wait for their next contract.

During the two to four months they are unemployed, they must search for work, perhaps outside the construction sector, depending on their qualifications, even though they are looking for jobs in construction. If they live in an urban area, they will have to do five job searches per week to qualify for benefits. Even though they are actively searching for employment in construction, no such jobs exist.

We can think of other fields, such as teaching, where substitute teachers may have contracts for three to five months, then have to wait a month or two before getting their next contract. They are asked to apply for three to five jobs a week in fields that may not be their own. They may be offered a job for which they may be qualified but that offers 70% of the salary of their previous job, and that may well be a job in sales, fast food or retail. They may be offered a job that does not interest them, and for which they have no particular training, but that they would be suited for because it is a job requiring lesser skills than a bachelor's or master's degree in education. These people are still looking for a job in education, but there are none. They may have to accept a job in a completely different field or risk losing their benefits.

I can name some other fields that affect urban areas, such as the arts and film sectors, where people often work on contract and can wind up unemployed for weeks or months, and not for lack of looking for a new contract. They may be forced to take a job outside their field, but one that they may be qualified for and will have to accept.

This reform makes no sense. What I have also seen, and what people realize when I say this reform makes no sense, is the make-up of the demonstrations and movements we are seeing in eastern Quebec. Claimants, the workers, are not the only ones rising up; there are also employers, whose workforce, often trained at high cost, may leave the region because of economic insecurity.

Employers also suffer productivity losses. If claimants are required to conduct three to five job searches a week, imagine the number of unsolicited employment applications employers receive and nevertheless have to go through. Those resources would be put to much better use helping expand those businesses.

In my view, the minister clearly has no idea of the actual situation in our regions. She has no idea of the disruptions this reform will cause in regions such eastern Quebec, and she has no idea of the negative impact this will have on regional economies.

With that, I will be pleased to answer any questions.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to congratulate my colleague and the members from neighbouring regions for the excellent work they have done to help people mobilize and to defend their interests, both on the ground and in the House.

At the end of his speech, he talked about who takes part in demonstrations. It is an interesting point that he should expand on. In fact yesterday, during question period, I heard a Conservative minister ask who the member for Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine was talking about when he referred to the demonstrations. It is as if the Conservatives had not realized just how mobilized and angry people were.

When he said that the minister in question had no idea what was going on, it is that kind of comment that makes us realize just how much the government does not realize what is happening here, particularly in Quebec, but elsewhere as well, such as in New Brunswick, for example.

So I would like to let him talk more about these people, who are afraid but also mobilized. He could also talk about the fact that they are not frauds, as is being implied. These are actual communities, people from all walks of life.

I would appreciate it if he could expand on that.