House of Commons Hansard #248 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was syrian.

Topics

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to touch on recent events. The hon. member just mentioned in his comments that there have been meetings between Secretary of State Kerry and his colleague in Russia. One of the things we have seen before is that while intentions to meet in order to deal bilaterally with the civil war in Syria in a serious manner and then move on from there are fine, we all hope that it goes somewhere.

We also know that, as was the case with Iraq and even Libya, as much as what is happening right now is a concern, the concern is what will happen afterward. I would like the hon. member's comment on that point.

What I will be laying out in my comments, and what the NDP is laying out, is that we need to start here at home with those Syrian-Canadians who are ready and willing to provide services. Some have already gone on their own dime to work on the ground, not militarily, but to provide services. That is going to be needed immediately. It is needed right now, but once there is some peace, it will be an absolutely critical period.

I would like to get the hon. member's comment about the idea of bringing together Canadians who are ready, willing and able to do that, and about starting to plan for that immediately.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have had several meetings with the Syrian community in Canada and I think the member's point is absolutely correct. In all my meetings with the Syrian community here, I have had a sense of some frustration that they have not been getting the kind of support they would have hoped to receive in order to do the work they want to do.

Last week we talked about matching funds and the need to ensure that there is a safe place to put the money and to ensure that it is being used for humanitarian purposes. However, once we have those assurances, we ought to take that step.

I think everyone here in the House recognizes that being an international country, as we are, we have the benefit of having a lot of people here who have a lot of expertise on what is going on in the Middle East and in Syria. Therefore, I agree with the member that it is something we need to be exploring much more vigorously than we have been.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Mr. Speaker, as was alluded to, it is not only a Middle East situation but also a situation that concerns the people in Canada.

My question is more on the diplomatic side.

The member for Ottawa Centre alluded to the U.S. and the Russians dealing with it using a diplomatic approach. On the UN side, one would think the UN could do a lot more on the situation. With our position at the UN now, to an extent we have taken a second seat to it. My question is this: what more could the UN do, and with our position now, have we compromised how much we can push forward on a UN solution to this situation?

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, we have to explore every avenue. Mr. Brahimi is on the ground. He is trying to find some grounds for political consensus. It is fair to say that like everyone who has tried this approach, he is facing a tremendous challenge, and it is not easy. There are Canadian citizens who are involved in helping Mr. Brahimi in trying to find solutions. It is not at all easy for us to do. As Canadians, we have to encourage every possible avenue of success.

I regret as much as every other member of the House that we did not gain a seat on the Security Council, but in the last 50 years there have been many years when we have not been on the Security Council and have been able to play a constructive role. We need to continue to look at what we can do and how we can participate more effectively in those efforts.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing more terrible than war. Still worse than war is civil war. My family experienced civil war in Lebanon. I would not wish the experience of civil war on anyone.

What is currently happening in Syria brings back a lot of painful memories: brothers killing brothers, children without a childhood, burnt bodies, massacres, torture, children's fear-filled eyes, suffering, despair.

I do not think Canada should play a part in causing more suffering. We have a duty to act, but to act for peace. Political action can be a response to an extremely complex situation, but it must be an equally complex response. What Canada can and must do is repatriate all those Canadian families who are awaiting visas for their non-Canadian children. Canada must be compassionate and bring back refugees, and it must help the persecuted minorities, including Christians, Kurds and Assyrians.

Canada must definitely not send military troops to Syria. It must not arm the rebels because we know that there are terrorist groups among these utterly fragmented factions. Above all, let us not arm the Salafists, who will turn those weapons against us and against our children. I beg you not to do that.

For example, groups that have pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda—

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Order, please. I apologize for having to interrupt the member, but her speaking time is up. She will probably have a chance to continue her speech at another time.

The hon. member for Toronto Centre has the floor.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

May 7th, 2013 / 7:15 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, everyone surely shares the feelings, emotions and thoughts of the member for Ahuntsic, who has just spoken.

For the moment, no one in this House, on the New Democrat, Liberal or government sides, is suggesting that the military solution is preferable or that it is the Canadian government's role to arm any group whatsoever.

The minister has spoken in the past few days about the importance of knowing what the opposition is in Syria and where the Salafist, terrorist and extremist elements are. The member is therefore entirely right in saying that the situation is complex. However, that complexity must not become an excuse for inaction. That is the problem we now face.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:15 p.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativeMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Speaker for granting this debate. It is a tremendously important opportunity to give an update to the House and all Canadians, both on the actions that the Government of Canada has taken to date to address the Syrian crisis and on the most recent developments.

The actions this government has taken and the engagement this government has put on this file have been real and significant. I think I share with all civilized people everywhere the frustration that the civilized world has not been able to bring a resolution to this crisis. Many of us have been working tremendously hard.

This debate tonight is also a chance for us to take stock of where we go from here.

As I rise to speak tonight, I am reminded, as I often am when considering the many complex issues relating to the Syrian crisis, of one of the conflict's youngest victims.

She was a girl of about seven years old. I had a chance to meet her at Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan. This was not a good place for a family, living in a tent in a refugee camp in the middle of the desert with the heat and scorpions. As horrible as the situation was for her and her family, I thought of how tough it must have been for her family in Syria.

I thought of how difficult it must have been to make the decision for her and her entire family to leave their home and to seek refuge in another country. I thought of the courage it took for her parents to do that, to want to do one thing, to keep their family safe, just like every Canadian family and every Canadian parent's objective is.

She and her family had fled their home. They had left everything they had known in a bid to escape death and destruction that had stalked their hometown.

Many of the refugees crossing the borders into Jordan, and I saw videotapes, have been shot at as they have crossed the border. When I visited a refugee camp, I met with Jordanian authorities. I was shown videos of a man carrying his young baby across the border being shot at, and of a pregnant woman being shot as she sought to enter Jordan and having the physical wherewithal to continue running, only to make it to safety and die in the hospital after. They dodged sniper bullets to make it to what they hoped would be safety.

This young girl that I talked to had quite an effect on me. She has lost some, if not a great deal, of the innocence of her youth. It was quite evident she could not speak English. She did not have much to say, although I could see that she was filled with fear and a longing for stability.

My colleague, the Foreign Minister of Jordan, Nasser Judeh, was with me. Nasser translated. I said to ask her how she was doing. We were there to see the well-being of people. I will never forget her answer. She looked in his eyes and said one thing as tears built up in her eyes, “I don't like it here. I want to go home.” That is one small child who in many ways summarizes so much of the problems this crisis has created.

Nearly a year later, the sad report is that this young girl's future is no brighter. Families just like hers are arriving by the hundreds, if not the thousands every day. Many nights, 2,000 people flee across the border to Jordan.

Camp Zaatari is now the world's second largest refugee camp. It would actually be the fourth largest city in the Kingdom of Jordan, if it were a permanent city. We think of the generosity of the Jordanian people, the Jordanian government, and His Majesty King Abdullah II in allowing people to flee their country to seek refuge.

More than two years into this crisis, the situation only continues to grow more desperate.

While some might become numb by the endless stream of bad news or be tempted to shut out the details of a situation that only seems to grow more hopeless, it is for the sake of that little girl I just mentioned and for the millions of other people like her that we are compelled to remain actively engaged.

I would suggest to all hon. members that the only way to end the suffering of the Syrian people is through a political solution to this crisis. We have not gone out of our way to criticize those who are seeking to arm the opposition. If it were only as simple as to provide more guns, more rockets, more bullets, more grenades to bring an end to this crisis, I think it would have already ended a long time ago. However, I have felt for some time that the more arms that flow into that country, the more Assad ratchets up his military power. As bad and evil as the Assad regime has been military-wise, exercising brute force against its own people, it is probably operating only on six of eight cylinders. As bad as it is, these people have only just started. The more well armed the opposition becomes, the more brutal and violent and tough the government gets. It still has the capacity to make it worse. The better armed, better equipped the Free Syrian Army and other regime opponents have become, the more violent and more aggressive the Assad regime has become.

We saw it in Houla last May. We saw it in Daraa last August, and in other places since. Opposition strength to the Assad regime has unleashed a merciless response from that regime. The United Nations Security Council, unfortunately, has failed to effectively tackle this challenge. It is conflicted, but the world is conflicted too. People have different views and are rooting for different sides.

I do want to take the opportunity here in this House to congratulate the Arab League for stepping up in a major way to fill this void. It has spoken out loudly and clearly for some time and repeatedly against Assad and the war that he has waged against his own people. The significant efforts expended first by Kofi Annan and then by Lakhdar Brahimi as joint UN and Arab League special envoys unfortunately have not brought about the end to the violence that we seek. For more than a year, I have been speaking to people who personally know Assad, and I have asked them what kind of man he is. These are people who have seen him up close, who have worked with him, people who have sought to seek peace between Syria and Lebanon, at the UN, the International Peace Institute, or other foreign minister colleagues of mine who have worked with him for many years. Just about every single one of them has said that Assad will fight to the bitter end. Unfortunately, I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

Obviously, we want to see him held accountable for his terrible actions. Last year, I said very clearly that what Assad needs to be facing is the International Criminal Court to face charges for committing crimes against humanity. Having said that, in many respects it will be up to the Syrian people to determine how he is tried and where. It is also up to Syrians to decide what replaces his regime.

Significant sanctions have come from Canada and like-minded allies or the Arab League. The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation has also played an effective role. I am very pleased to say Canada for the first time recently appointed a representative to engage with the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation in Jeddah. Significant sanctions, while having devastated the Syrian economy, have not proven effective at causing this regime to change course. Assad is waging war against his own people. These sanctions are crippling the Syrian economy and it does not appear that he could care less about the effect of these sanctions. He has some support in the country; whether it is 10%, 20% or 30%, I do not know. He is getting material support from a number of countries, including Iran, which is another reason this government declared it a state sponsor of terrorism. However, the sanctions have not worked.

Canada, I should note, has not at all sat idle. In fact, Canada will be chairing and hosting the next Syria sanctions committee meeting here in Canada. I and others in government have worked very hard with the Friends of the Syrian People International Working Group to develop a united front and aid for the political action against Assad. Canada has helped address the most urgent humanitarian needs within Syria, while also working to assist Syria's neighbours to deal with the crush of refugees and other effects of this crisis.

In many respects, this is the worst crisis this century has seen, only 13 years in. Canada, I am pleased to say, has been a world leader, not only in making pledges of financial support but in delivering on those pledges. Canada is well known for that. We are delivering support, aid and humanitarian assistance to the victims of the Assad regime.

My colleague from Toronto Centre mentioned the crisis in Haiti and compared it to the crisis in Syria. It is hard to compare one crisis with another. I know that in that crisis, in five minutes, a quarter of a million people died. In five minutes, one-quarter of a million human beings lost their lives in our hemisphere. In Syria, Assad has been vicious. The war has had a terrible effect, but it has gone on over a long, protracted period of over two years now. It is hard to compare the humanitarian crisis in Haiti with the slow descent into hell the Syrian people have witnessed.

We have pressed countries, such as Russia and China, that have influence with this regime to do all they can to end the bloodshed and support a transition of power. We saw one glimmer of hope in discussions in Geneva, what was called the Geneva declaration or the Geneva initiative, which Russia saw reason to support. We continue to think that it is one element of a political solution.

We have called for resolutions and have pushed for real action within the United Nations system. While the Security Council has utterly failed, the UN has had some good successes. I would note the great job the United Nations World Food Programme is doing in Syria. Canada, by and large, is generally the second largest contributor to that organization. We have provided financial support to the World Food Programme to support both people inside Syria and those who have sought refuge in neighbouring countries.

Valerie Amos and her staff at the UN have done a phenomenal job with the United Nations' humanitarian response and in getting urgent assistance to those who need it most. I do not mind criticizing the United Nations when I think their actions are wanting, but I am equally proud to say congratulations to the United Nations when they do good and effective work. Frankly, when it comes to the registration of refugees, if the United Nations does not step in to do that, there is really no one else that can fill that void. They have done it, and they have done it well, in my personal, first-hand experience in Syria and Jordan.

Canada has, I am pleased to say, helped address the needs throughout the region. Obviously, if we can provide humanitarian support to people in Syria, the four million-odd people who have been internally displaced, they do not have to seek refuge. However, it is hard. It is very hard to get aid to the people who need it most.

Not too long ago, I travelled to Luxembourg, where I and nine other foreign ministers met with 10 international aid organizations: the World Food Programme, other UN bodies, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the European humanitarian assistance folks. We talked. I am told by the UN World Food Programme that there are times when for four, five, six or seven days they are not allowed to get food out of Damascus. On the days they can get it out, there are 51 different checkpoints, with two signatures required. It has been brutal. Thirty people, some from the UN, some from other organizations, have lost their lives trying to get help to people within Syria.

We have paid particular attention to the pressing needs in Jordan. That has been deliberate. The influx of refugees to Jordan has been nearly overwhelming. To put it in context, my dear friend and colleague, the Foreign Minister of Jordan, Nasser Judeh, put it this way: It is like the entire population of Canada seeking refuge in the United States. Already more than 10%, 11% or 12% of the population of Jordan are Syrian refugees. It causes huge problems in access to water and sanitation. Internal social problems, such as schooling and people taking employment from other Jordanians, are huge. They are significant.

The need for food, medicine and other basics have tapped a government that was already experiencing extreme budget pressures. Indeed, Jordan does not have the developed economy some other countries in the region do. It is not resource rich. The average Jordanian can afford just a third of what the average Turk can, for instance. The situation is very different for Jordan than it is for Turkey, and the need is greater than in some other places.

Canada is delivering. I have personally visited all of Syria's neighbours. I am continuously taking stock of what the needs are and what we can do to be of help. Canada is a rare donor country in that it not only pledges to help out, it actually delivers. This is something government colleagues will elaborate on throughout tonight's presentations.

My friend from Toronto Centre says that we are not doing enough. How could we possibly do enough when we are seeing the biggest humanitarian crisis of the century? Whatever we are doing, it is not enough, and we have to do more. As this crisis drags on, we will do more.

We know that when it comes to humanitarian assistance, getting people and goods to the places they are most needed is a challenge. The World Food Programme, for instance, is doing a great job, as I mentioned.

I am also pleased to report that Canada is at the forefront of thinking about and considering solutions to the challenge of Syria's sizeable stockpile of chemical weapons. We have all seen recent reports, some of them conflicting, about their possible use. While it would appear almost certain that some of these deadly weapons were, in fact, used in recent days, we do not yet know for sure who used them, where they were used and exactly when.

I will leave the rush to judgment to others, but I firmly believe that on a question as important as this, we need precision and clarity. We need to get the facts before responding. President Obama has outlined the importance of this too, and I agree.

About one month ago, we extended a line of credit to the United Nations chemical weapons inspectors to try to get these important answers and elusive facts. Once we get these facts, we will consult with our allies.

American leadership will, of course, be key. So too will the actions of other key allies, such as the United Kingdom, France and Germany. Regional powers, including Turkey and Jordan, will also need to be part of the response. The stakes could not be higher.

We, responsible nations everywhere, cannot allow these chemical weapons stockpiles to fall into the wrong hands. Even small doses unleashed in tight spaces can wreak havoc and cause mass casualties within minutes. This is a concern from Tel Aviv to Tokyo to Toronto, and all points in between.

Our collective response must be firm. We must speak with one voice on this matter. We must understand that failure is not an option.

While we engage with like-minded states on this important question, we also work and engage with various factions, such as the opposition within Syria. Let us remind ourselves that this is not one homogenous body ready to replace Assad and his thugs, which only complicates an already difficult situation.

My friend from Toronto has in recent days asked publicly for more information about the makeup of the opposition. Others have asked why we do not recognize them and back them blindly. We have engaged with the opposition. I have met with their leadership. Canadian officials have met with their leadership. We engage with them, whether they be in Istanbul, Cairo or London.

Let me be clear. We have very credible information to suggest that in recent months, the number of Salafists, jihadists, radical extremists and those who express links to al Qaeda has only increased. This was said by my colleague opposite. They have come to Syria, backed by foreign money, to fight other foreign nationals, Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard among them. These are not people seeking peace for Syria. These are people looking to wage new wars based on old hatred in the lawless, ungoverned space that is today's Syria. We have gone from being concerned about whether there will be a place for religious minorities, whether they be Shia, Kurds, Alawites, Christians, Druze or Ismailis, to what we can do to make sure these people are not slaughtered when Assad falls.

It is no longer a “nice to have” notion of pluralism. It is a matter of survival for those who may not appreciate the imposition of Sharia law, Islamic courts and brands of religious extremism that deny women and minorities their basic human dignity.

Already we have seen the destabilizing effects in the border areas. I would point to the kidnapping of four UN peacekeepers, Philippine nationals, in recent hours and days. Already we see signs of problems that have worsened over years threatening to get suddenly much worse.

In conclusion, Canada will work with our allies to deal with all of this as best we can. We appreciate the support of all hon. members as this debate continues tonight and in the days and weeks ahead. I urge everyone to keep in mind the innocent who have been killed or displaced already, those many millions of Syrians who yearn for brighter futures, and perhaps especially the children affected by this crisis, children who simply want to go home.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:35 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his intervention and clarification on some points with regard to the government's actions. However, there are a couple of things I want to tie down.

I know that everyone has read the reports. I have some Security Council reports here. I will get into this a bit more, but I note the horrific toll this conflict has had on children and women. Typically, women and children are injured or are refugees as an outcome of war. However, we are now seeing that they are being strategically targeted, and I want to get the government's comment on that.

I also have a specific question about cluster munitions.

The member talked about chemical weapons. We have reports from different sources, going back to March, on the use of cluster munitions. I note that the Conservative government has not come out against the use of cluster munitions or made comment on it. I know that the government is against the use of them, but I want to know why we have not spoken out when it comes to cluster munitions in Syria.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, let me take the opportunity to do that now.

I think we are speaking very loudly and clearly. We have legislation before Parliament right now to sign the international convention. Obviously, Canada feels very strongly about the use of these munitions.

The member opposite mentioned women and children. We have put financial resources into UNICEF of more than $2.7 million. UNICEF is on the ground in the refugee camps. We realize the anger and frustration in these camps. People have had to leave their homes, and the huge effect it has on children is self-evident. I ended my comments on that.

The member also mentioned women. We are increasingly seeing around the world rape being used as a weapon of war. There are significant and serious reports from Syria. This is an issue about which Canada and our allies have spoken loudly and clearly. We are putting financial resources on the table for other conflicts, and we are more than prepared to do that here. We spoke at the G8 ministers meeting, where the United Kingdom made this a centrepiece. Canada put up millions of dollars in new financial resources, and it is something we are keen to be engaged with in Syria.

Rape as a weapon of war is a serious war crime. It is something we are beginning to see the civilized world wake up to, take note of and take action on.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, just a few months ago there was a delegation of Syrian Canadians from the community who were going through the hallways and talking to a lot of us. Some met with the minister. One of things they were asking for was the guiding principles and rationale, where helping people in desperate circumstances is part of Canada's proud humanitarian tradition. Canada has always played an important international role in alleviating problems and finding solutions to the plight of diaspora world-wide.

Our recent and distant Canadian history is full of generous and brave actions to resettle refugees from crisis zones world-wide, from 60,000 Vietnamese, to 20,000 Iraqis, to all kinds of special measures, to uplift more than 5,000 Kosovar refugees in 1999, the Lebanese immigration refugee wave of the seventies, and other bright examples of principles and successful policies.

The minister spoke about what he has seen, the girl and everything that he visited. The question that has been put to the government time and time again is, is Canada running any special programs for Syrian refugees?

I took the liberty of communicating with the Canadian embassy in Amman and the Canadian embassy in Beirut. After three tries, I received an answer to my question. Many of my constituents are asking if we are running any special programs for Syrian refugees. Lo and behold, surprise, I figured that the government would. The minister is going to Turkey and saying, “we are taking refugees and we are doing this”. The answer is at this time there are no, I repeat, no special programs for Syrian refugees.

If the minister would give his crocodile tears today about the girl that he met, why is he not working with his colleague, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism to make sure that there is yes, a Syrian refugee program? He can continue, but the answer will still be no. When are the Conservatives going to do something about it?

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, we had a very classy, thoughtful debate and it had to end at one time. It ended just now. I will get the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism to speak to this.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:40 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I appreciate the humanity that was evident in his remarks.

In Quebec, especially, I have met a number of families of Syrian origin who told me about Canadians who are stuck in Syria right now because their child was born there. The father and mother are Canadians, but the child is Syrian.

I can recall quite clearly that we allowed Canadian families to get visas for their immediate family during the Israeli-Lebanese conflict. I would like to know if my colleague will work with the Minister of Immigration so that we can bring these Canadian families here, as well as persecuted minorities, including Christians, Kurds, Assyrians and certain refugees—in fact, refugees in general.

I understand that Canada cannot take in everyone under the sun, but it could welcome and protect a certain number of refugees, including the little girl the minister mentioned. It would be a truly great gift to humanity.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the remarks by the hon. member from Quebec. I appreciated the tone and spirit of her comments.

If she would like, I would be willing to speak with her about this policy after question period tomorrow. Our concern is not just about the current refugees, but also about what will happen with the Christians, the Druze, the Alawites and the Ismailis after Assad leaves the government.

That is one of our biggest concerns and something we are increasingly focusing on. Not only do I appreciate her question, but I also appreciate the vast majority of the comments in her brief speech, with which I completely agreed.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:45 p.m.

Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his speech.

The Liberal foreign affairs critic mentioned that he thought Canada should be engaging the Syrian opposition in a more comprehensive way. The minister spoke a bit about the Syrian opposition in his speech.

When the foreign affairs committee did a study on Syria late last year, we were told by a very well-placed individual who was very well-informed about the Syrian opposition, that the Syrian opposition could be described as having almost 100 identifiable groups that fell into three broad categories: those who were fighting for democracy, human rights, freedom and rule of law, the kind of people we would want to support; terrorists; and the criminal element, taking advantage of the chaos in the country.

I understand that recently the Syrian rebel group, Jabhat al-Nusra, led by Chief Abu Mohammad al-Golani, pledge allegiance to al Qaeda. Given that situation with the Syrian opposition, perhaps the minister could tell us how Canada is dealing with who to support in the Syrian opposition?

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, let me say at the outset that the overwhelming majority of the Syrian people are peace-loving people who reject radical extremism. That has certainly been the case in my experience, personally and otherwise.

We have engaged with the leadership of the Syrian opposition. I have met with them personally on more than one occasion. My officials have met with them. Our officials engage with them, whether it be in Istanbul, Cairo or most recently in London.

A year ago, we were concerned about a few hundred al Qaeda sympathizers. It has grown to something much worse. This obviously causes Canada, Canadians, the people of Syria and freedom-loving people everywhere significant concern.

Canada has made the decision not to recognize them. I would say that six months after we made that decision, it looks demonstrably better than it did then.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise with a heavy heart, like many in this place, as we debate again the situation in Syria. I say “again” because we have dealt with the issue before. Some things have changed, but obviously not enough, as we have heard from our colleagues.

When we hear of the deaths of 70,000, refugee numbers of 1.5 million, 4.25 million displaced and 6.8 million in need of humanitarian assistance, it is really hard to get our heads around this.

We understand there is a desperate need for humanitarian assistance. We understand that the refugee crisis is getting worse. We understand that we have a government in Damascus that is deciding to stay put and continue with its crimes against humanity. We understand that there is a civil war that is getting worse in many ways. However, we have to understand what we can do.

All too often in our parliaments and our legislatures around the world we are given all the reasons why we cannot do things. If we just take a look at the first three months of 2013, the number of Syrian refugees more than doubled because we, seemingly, could not figure out what to do. Let us remember, this is a conflict that has been going on for a couple of years.

In January, there were around 500,000 refugees. By April, there were more than 1.3 million who fled to neighbouring countries, as we have heard. The United Nations refugee council is saying that it registers 7,000 new refugees every day. More than 440,000 Syrians have fled to Lebanon. Syrian refugees now make up more than 10% of its population.

We also know the burden that has on other countries. Therefore, what we have to do is understand what is possible. I am going to touch on some of the issues that have brought us to this point, but let us go back to last October. That is when the foreign affairs committee was seized with this issue. Frankly, it was our party that pushed to have hearings on Syria and the government agreed, which was helpful. We did a study at the foreign affairs committee because we needed to better understand from Syrian Canadians, from experts and certainly from the government, what we were doing and what we could be doing. From that study we put forward a motion to ask the government to do a couple of things. One was to deal with family reunification, to fast-track those Syrians stuck in the refugee camps who had fled the slaughter in Syria to be sponsored by family members here in Canada. The other thing we asked was to increase humanitarian support, particularly in Turkey.

I listened carefully to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who quite rightly noted that there is a burden on Jordan to take in so many refugees. It is a country that is not as well off, certainly, as Canada. He mentioned helping Lebanon as well.

However, it is important to underline here that out of that committee report came a motion that was debated in the House. We underlined the importance of Turkey. I am critical of the government for not following up on both of those suggestions because when it comes to refugees and reunification, his colleague, the Minister of Immigration, made an announcement in Turkey to suggest that we were going to take in 5,000 refugees. This was good news for many of us when we first heard it. Sadly, we found out when we looked into the announcement that it was not for Syrian refugees leaving the slaughter in Syria, it was for refugees who had already been documented from other countries.

We do have a proud tradition in this country of accommodating and helping people who are fleeing strife, be it natural disaster in Haiti, as was mentioned, conflict like Lebanon in the 1980s or the infamous stories of those who fled Southeast Asia in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I have heard the minister tonight say he will talk to his colleague, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism. I do not understand why the minister himself, on two occasions, did not meet with the community when asked to. I am talking about the minister's colleague, not the minister. I look forward to his following up.

However, the other thing that has to be noted in this debate tonight, going back to my comments, is that we are all seized with this issue and often paralyzed because we do not believe there is anything more we can do. This is something we can do. We have Syrian Canadian families right now who want to help their family members. Members should think of it right now as if it was their family member who fled conflict. If members could help them out, they would do it. That is all these people are asking for. That is all we are asking for. That is why people have signed the petition asking the government to do just that, to meet with members of the community and to open our doors and our hearts to people fleeing the slaughter.

We need to do more and, in the spirit of having a debate where we are focused on concrete solutions, we need to acknowledge, as in my intervention with the minister, the burden this has been particularly on children. There are UN officials who have said that children and women are on the front lines of this war.

I mentioned in October that we had committee hearings on Syria, and we heard from Syrian Canadians and from experts. We heard from Mariam Hamou, a very proud Syrian Canadian woman, and I think anyone who was at the committee will remember her testimony in particular because it was so human. As I said, sometimes it is difficult to get one's head around the numbers, but in her testimony in the committee hearings she said:

Assad's offensives on his citizens are claiming on average 150 people a day.

This was back in October. She continued:

On October 17—that's yesterday—155 people were killed. On October 16, 133 people were killed. On October 15, 100 people were killed. You get the idea here, and this is just in the past few days. The latest report is that regime forces are using barrel bombs in civilian areas, specifically on schools, killing most of the children inside. The barrel bombs are, again, not in Free Syrian Army stronghold areas, but are targeting children specifically.

I apologize that there is some vivid language here, but she went on to say:

Torture has been reported in every city and town, and down to every family. I don't want to get into the chilling details of what goes on, but I'll share with you one story that just sends chills down my spine. Women are being systematically raped in Syria, not by one, two, or three of the militia men, but by many people. After the militia men are finished raping the victim, they insert a live mouse...[into the woman] to destroy any sense of dignity that might have been left for this woman.

Children are not only dying by the hands of the regime's brutality, but by malnourishment, as food and water are becoming increasingly scarce. Food costs in Syria have gone up six times the price of what they were before the revolution. A loaf of bread is becoming increasingly unaffordable, and families are going without food at times. Babies are dying as mothers are not able to breastfeed them because of the lack of nutrition for the mothers....

That is what we are talking about. That is the human story. We heard from the minister on his visit to the refugee camp. It is clear that there is a need to do more. It is clear there are challenges, no question. I am heartened by the fact that there might be an international conference to actually end this war. However, we must be vigilant and we must do everything we can do.

With that in mind, I have spoken, as we all have, to Syrian Canadians and others, including experts. In fact, I just spoke with someone who is out of Washington today, but whose expertise is around peace, security and women, which is the issue for our century to look at. The issue is how we can ensure that women are not on the front lines of the conflict but are also involved in making sure we find peace, because all too often they are the victims and not allowed in, so to speak.

To that end, not only does the NDP want the government to fast-track family members and increase aid, particularly to countries like Turkey where we should do more, but also focus on women. To that end, New Democrats want the government to engage with the Syrian Women's Network. This is a group of women, civil society members and leaders, working to ensure they can do everything they can to help civilians right now, not only in the camps but in Syria, and to strengthen the hope that everyone had at the beginning of this two years ago that there are going to be opportunities for all.

That is something Canada can do, and we should do it in the following framework. We should do it by saying that our government will lead by engaging Syrian Canadians, those who have expertise and, as I said in my comments earlier, who have already spent their own money to help people on the ground. Some have gone into the conflict zones themselves not to wage war but to work in makeshift hospitals, deliver food aid, help kids, to do what they can with what they have the best way they can.

To that end, New Democrats want the government to have a particular focus on women, work with the Syrian Women's Network and look at putting together a network of Syrian Canadians who will be able to strengthen civil society and opportunities for a lasting political solution. Make no mistake, if tomorrow there were an end to the conflict as we see it now, it does not mean peace and stability. It means that the next phase will happen. As Canadians, we have to make sure we are doing everything we can to prepare for what the next steps are.

It is clear when we look at what happened in Iraq and even in Libya that we must ensure we are ready and prepared to help on the ground when things change, with basic things such as water and sewage, ensuring basic services are met and basic governance. I know, the minister knows and everyone in the House knows that there are Syrian Canadians who are willing and able to do that. We can work with women's organizations, the Syrian Women's Network and Syrian Canadians, coordinate their efforts, both human resources and money, to look at how we can help immediately on the ground, to strengthen the institutions that are already doing work through the UN and others, and to start looking at what Canada's role will be when this conflict ends. Every conflict ends. Every war ends. It is just a matter of when it ends. Then the question is what we do about it.

I know the Minister of Foreign Affairs is a fan of Churchill. During the Second World War, which my father served in overseas, in 1942, I believe it was, he was already planning for what would happen in post-war Germany. He had some of the best and the brightest looking at what needs and services would be required and who would be able to fill that role. It was because he understood that wars and conflicts end. Then the question was what to do and what one's contribution would be. The question is: What is Canada's contribution going to be?

We should look at the challenges we face, such as who is being affected by this war and the huge toll this has taken on civilians, particularly women and children, as I have underlined in my comments.

Just to give an example of what this means for women, not only are they affected by becoming refugees and having to leave their homes and take care of their children without enough resources to support them, but we have evidence that there are as many as 6,400 women who have been detained by the regime. One thousand of them are university students.

Let us remember who started this movement. This was not malicious, from outside. This was not people who picked up arms. This was a peaceful movement of young people—not entirely but primarily—who decided they wanted a different Syria. They led, in this response to the government's crackdown, by protesting peacefully, not by picking up guns, not by using any so-called terrorist methods. They simply used their passion, their hearts and their drive.

What has happened is that many of them have been killed and many of them have been detained. We understand that Syrian women and children who have been affected are targeted, as I read in this testimony. Can members imagine targeting schools? Many of us have worked as teachers or have kids, and we all grew up and went through the system. To think that someone is actually targeting a school is beyond comprehension. It is a horror. That is why I think we should be engaging to do more with those who have been engaged on the ground.

I want to finish up by saying, while the world watches what happens in Syria and wonders what else we can do, let us remember what this country has done in the past.

I remember a story of a couple who were over here in the Laurentian Mountains for a weekend. They were horrified as they watched South Asians in boats and saw the news reports. They saw that they were in peril, that they needed help, and the world was not opening its doors.

That couple came back to this city and they got in touch with the government. They held some public meetings, and they opened the minds of the government of the day, which was a Conservative government. They said we must do more. They held local meetings where people—church groups, bowling teams and others—sponsored refugees, to help those people who were on the high seas and who were being left behind.

That couple was my parents. My mother was the mayor of Ottawa at the time. It was a grassroots movement that said that as Canadians we have something to do. She called it Project 4000. It opened the doors to 4,000 Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian refugees here in this city, and challenged every other mayor across the country to do the same.

We went from having a quota of 8,000 refugees for that year. Because of grass roots and because Canadians mobilized and said we could do something about this, it changed to 60,000. It was Flora MacDonald who was the minister who did that.

I say to the government and to Canadians that we can do more, we can do it together and we can show Syrians that we are here to help with that. We can say to the world that Canada cannot solve the problem, but we can do our bit. I think if we support refugees, if we do a little more in humanitarian support, and we decide that we are going to engage all Syrians who can help with civil society, with women, supporting women in particular, Canada will be proud of what it can do in a horrific, awful conflict.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:05 p.m.

Calgary East Alberta

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, we have had three speakers in this debate, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Liberal Foreign Affairs critic, and now the NDP Foreign Affairs critic, and all of them have very passionately stated the human tragedy that is taking place in Syria. There is no question about it. All three have said that what is happening in Syria is totally unacceptable, and that is not just the war, but the misery that is going on there. All of them have given their personal examples to say and show where all these things are leading.

It is understandable that my colleague talks about engaging with the Canadian Syrian community, and that is indeed what we should be doing and indeed what this government is doing. I am sure all opposition members are engaged with the Syrian Canadian community, who because of their own personal interests have tremendous contributions they can make toward the tragic situation in Syria.

The NDP critic talked about engaging women's networks and setting that up, but at this time the security situation in Syria is disastrous. There is no room for civil society there. There is no room for people to do anything. What we need right now is to bring, as quickly as possible, pressure to stop the civil war, to stop the killing. Only then can we have these things.

I understand what he is talking about, that we want to build this thing—Mr. Speaker, we have 10 minutes for questions, so let me go.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order. I will remind the hon. parliamentary secretary that the Chair will determine the length of questions, not the members, and that while there are 10 minutes available, the member has gone for almost two minutes now and I would ask him to wrap up quickly.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, the question I want to put is very simple. While the member is talking about building capacity, let me say quite clearly and very strongly that this government is focused on helping to build capacity with the national council that can form the government and provide the stability he is talking about. Then we can all work together to do that.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:10 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think I addressed my comments to the fact that I think we should be doing more. I acknowledge the announcements that the government has made and the money it has invested in helping refugees, et cetera, but there is more that we have to do. This is not a partisan issue. This is about our country and what we can do. That is what this debate is about. It is about informing and sharing ideas, and hopefully coming up with the next steps in terms of what we can do.

I would acknowledge that the government, particularly at the beginning, has donated and invested money in the plight of refugees. I am saying that Canadians want to do even more. Let us use that opportunity. Let us engage with Canadians and do even more. Let us understand that this conflict has taken a huge hit on women and children, and we need to look at their plight and invest with them. It sounds like the parliamentary secretary agrees with me, so I look forward to the government's response on that, as well as with the fast-tracking of refugees.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:10 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, since the beginning of this situation in Syria, we from this side, the community and NGOs, are asking the government to match dollar-for-dollar what they raise. This has been done for many occasions. It was done for the earthquake in Gujarat. It was done for the tsunami. It was done for the earthquake in 2005 in Pakistan, and it continues. The government even reluctantly a couple of times went ahead and did that. I remember the time that we had the earthquake in China, and we had to push the minister at that time. Of course, we forgot the $16 orange juice. We had to push her and push the government in order to do this. When Haiti happened, this House was locked down and the Prime Minister walked right across and said “Here is my donation”.

In that spirit that the community has been asking, that the NGOs have been asking, that we in the opposition have been asking, will my hon. colleague agree that the government has failed completely to match dollar-for-dollar the request from the community? The government is ignoring the Syrian community in Canada, in not only not matching dollar-for-dollar, but also the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism not meeting with them following request after request, in writing to the Prime Minister, who is not ordering his ministers to meet with them.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:10 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, we have seen from NGOs that there is more than can be done. I am simply making the point to the government that there is an opportunity to do more if it wishes to. I know that there are willing partners.

It is not in the spirit of the debate tonight to go hot. It is important to critique where critiques need to be made and to offer suggestions.

I know there are people who have already given a lot of money and a lot of time. We can leverage that even more. That is why we are putting forward the idea of creating this network, particularly investing with women in the Syrian women's network.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to give my colleague an opportunity to talk about a motion that was passed unanimously in the House of Commons. The motion followed a study by the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development on the situation in Syria.

The hon. members of the government may need to be reminded of the recommendations made to the Minister of Foreign Affairs in the resolution that my colleague presented in committee. I would like him to talk about the recommendations that the government passed.

Situation in SyriaEmergency Debate

8:10 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I mentioned some of this in my comments. In October of last year, we decided it was important to actually have the foreign affairs committee, of which I am a vice-chair, study what is happening in Syria and hear directly from people. I read some of the testimony into the record.

From that, we got some good ideas about what we should do next. We had a motion and we debated it in the House, and as she mentioned, the motion was passed unanimously. It said three things. One was to acknowledge and support the UN mission, which was already touched on by my colleague from Toronto Centre. That was Mr. Brahimi's mission. We noted that they were not going to find a peace accord tomorrow, but it was important to have UN presence there for all sorts of reasons, the least of which is for what happens when the conflict is over. It will be important to have knowledge of what is happening on the ground when the conflict is over. The second point was to have the fast-tracking of refugees. Thirdly, we said to provide more humanitarian support.

This was agreed to by the House. I simply remind the government that on two of these issues, it still needs to do more. We encourage the government to do more.