Debates of May 7th, 2013

(The House divided on the motion which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #675

Economic Action Plan 2013 Act, No. 1

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly, the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.

(Bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It being 6:12 p.m., the House can now proceed to the consideration of private members' business, as listed on today's order paper.

Korean War Veterans Day Act

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

moved that Bill S-213, An Act respecting a national day of remembrance to honour Canadian veterans of the Korean War, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today and join my colleagues in support of Bill S-213, an act to establish Korean War veterans day.

I would like to offer a special thanks to my colleague the hon. Senator Yonah Martin, who proposed this legislation, and thank her for her tireless work on this initiative and for bringing Bill S-213 forward. I share her desire to recognize the thousands of Canadian men and women who have served our country and made a significant contribution to international peace and security.

I would also like to thank our Minister of Veterans Affairs for declaring 2013 the Year of the Korean War Veteran. I was encouraged to hear that the minister recently travelled with 36 veterans to South Korea on a commemorative trip. The minister's work ensures that the Korean War will never be thought of again as the forgotten war. I stand alongside the minister as he continues to stand up for Korean War veterans and all veterans.

I would like to thank the representatives of the Korean War Veterans Association for their support of this legislation.

I can assure all members of the House that this government, more than any in recent history, is committed to giving every possible support to the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. We are also committed to ensuring Canadian veterans are treated with the dignity and respect that they deserve. They have brought honour to Canada and we in turn will honour them.

On November 11, Canadians pause to remember their brave countrymen and women who have given their all in the service of Canada. Through this national act of remembrance, we honour all veterans. We honour those who served in war and those who served in peace. We honour those who served in all theatres of war. We honour those who have served in Canada helping our communities respond to and recover from natural disasters. We honour those who continue to stand for peace and freedom and operations all over the world, most recently in Afghanistan and Libya.

This legislation constitutes a specific recognition of those who served in the Korean War and who selflessly contributed to the peace and security of the Republic of Korea in the years following the armistice.

The timing of this legislation is equally significant and appropriate. The year 2013 marks the 60th anniversary of the Korean War Armistice, a milestone worthy of recognition and reflection. In fact, the Prime Minister has declared 2013 as the Year of Korea in Canada in part to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Korean War Armistice, as well as 50 years of formal diplomatic relations between our two great countries.

The Minister of Veterans Affairs, as members know, followed the Prime Minister's lead by also declaring 2013 the Year of the Korean War Veteran in his department.

We are proud to honour Canada's veterans for what they have accomplished on land, at sea and in the air during the Korean War. That is why our government has presented certificates of recognition this year to Canadian Korean war veterans. We worked in partnership with the Republic of Korea last month to have 36 Canadian veterans of the Korean War revisit the battlefields where they had served. This trip was very important to these veterans. I will highlight Mr. Harry Marshall, a veteran of the Korean War who said, “It is with many mixed emotions that I take this journey, but it is important to honour all of those who served in this war 60 years ago.”

It is for these important reasons that the Minister of Veterans Affairs has promoted a full weekend to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Korean War Armistice in Ottawa at the end of June.

The Korean War will always be an important chapter, a defining moment, in our country's proud military history. It deserves special recognition, which is why I urge all members to support this proposed legislation to create a national day in honour of Korean War veterans.

With my remaining time I would like to talk about the extraordinary service and sacrifice of Canada's veterans during the Korean War and begin by placing their efforts within a wider context.

As we all know, the First and Second World Wars touched Canadians in every community across this great country, from the largest cities to the smallest towns. Everyone knew someone who had served overseas. Too many had lost a loved one. Against the backdrop of those two great wars, the Korean War seemed a bit different. It was obviously shorter and smaller in scale with far fewer casualties, so how could it possibly compare with the two global conflicts? How could it command Canadians' attention the way the First and Second World Wars had? The hindsight of historians has helped us to understand the importance of the Korean War as well as its tragic impact on so many Canadian heroes and their families.

We now understand how critical it was for Canada and 15 other nations to provide combat troops and halt the spread of tyranny and oppression. I do not think there is anywhere other than the Korean Peninsula where that halt of oppression and tyranny is better shown in the world today.

Bill S-213 would ensure we forever remember the courage and sacrifice of the more than 26,000 brave Canadians who served during the Korean War and the approximately 7,000 who continued to serve after the armistice was signed in 1953.

Through Bill S-213 we can guarantee that future generations of Canadians never make the same mistake of treating the Korean War as anything less than the devastating war that it actually was.

Of course, Canada's veterans of the Korean War have never forgotten the 516 Canadians who gave their lives in service during the Korean War; the 516 Canadians who made the ultimate sacrifice defending the right of all people to live in peace and freedom. They have never forgotten their comrades who were wounded in battle or the families forever changed by war. They have never forgotten what they witnessed and endured, from the terrible human suffering to the terrifying violence and unending hardships. They remember the overwhelming odds they faced as they were greatly outnumbered on rugged and foreign terrain. They remember the local families fleeing from their homes with only what they could carry on their backs; young children following, hungry and scared. They remember the atrocities, the executions, the purges and massacres that also left countless civilians dead.

In short, Canada's veterans know the brutal truth about the Korean War. They are our clearest window into a great tragedy and, sadly, the passage of time is taking its toll on these Canadian heroes. Only about 10,600 of Canada's Korean veterans remain, most in their eighties or at least very close.

We have an urgent duty as a nation to preserve their stories and to ensure future generations actively remember. The Minister of Veterans Affairs has taken a very active role in ensuring that Canadians are educated about the sacrifices and stories of Korean War veterans. A national day to honour these veterans will help us do that. Korean War veterans day would inspire Canadians to explore our proud past and learn more about the contributions and sacrifices of such a remarkable group of men and women.

When support came to the Republic of Korea in 1950, Canada responded in numbers exceeding what the world might have expected from our country with its relatively small population. What is equally amazing is that many of the Canadians who served in Korea had already served in the Second World War. They had already witnessed unspeakable horrors and experienced great personal loss. They already knew the terrible cost of freedom and they were still willing to pay the price again. That is what made these seemingly ordinary Canadians so truly extraordinary.

They willingly travelled halfway around the world to serve in a foreign land; a land unlike anything most of them had ever seen. I am sure each one of them had his or her personal reasons for going, but I also believe they were united in their sense of purpose, and I am sure they would have echoed the words of statesman Edmund Burke who once said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

I can only guess at how the course of history may have been different if Canada and her allies had done nothing, if we had stood by and let evil triumph.

We can paint many different pictures of what life in Canada would be like today if the United Nations had not stepped in and if North Korea had not been stopped in its tracks. Quite frankly, it is possible we would not even be here in this chamber today as elected officials in a free and democratic country, if not for the courage of men and women who answered the world's call so many years ago.

That is the legacy we have inherited from our soldiers, sailors, flyers, nurses, doctors and aboriginal veterans who distinguished themselves in a far-off war. We are the direct beneficiaries of their service and bravery. We are only able to serve here today because they served when Canada called upon them. We understand our debt in a very intuitive way, which is why I am so proud to support this bill.

I want to talk briefly about my own personal experience.

I had the privilege last fall of going to Korea with a number of Canadian Korean War veterans and seeing the cemetery in Busan, the United Nations cemetery. I participated in the service with those veterans and from the stories they told me, I could see how much that experience meant to them.

The Government of Korea and the people of Korea have certainly never forgotten. In fact, when I went to the national war museum in Korea, I could hear children laughing because it was required for so many young people to come through that museum and see what Canada and other countries had done. The names of every soldier who died in the Korean War are on placards outside adorning the entranceway and on various columns and pillars. There are some 40,000 U.S. soldiers and, of course, the 516 Canadians who died or were killed in action, and some 50 who died in service after the armistice was actually signed.

I am very grateful to my colleague, Senator Yonah Martin, for giving me this opportunity.

What I have in my hand is not a prop, and I do not want anybody to get the notion that is. It is an obituary that has been on the wall of my house that I have had the opportunity to read many times as a youngster growing up. I am doing this right now for my grandpa Don and my Calkins family. It will be tough for me read this, but I will do my best.

It states:

Corporal James Alvin Calkins, 25, formerly of Rocky Mountain House, is the second Albertan to die in the Korean War. His parents, Mr. and Mrs. Arthur Calkins, received word from the defence department that he had died of wounds received in the battle. He served with the Lord Strathcona's Horse in the second great war and for a time in the reserve army. On November 20th, 1950, he was sent with the 2nd battalion of the Princess Patricias to train at Fort Lewis, Washington. He was a member of C Company. Surviving besides his parents are his two sisters, Miss Bertie Lloyd of Nordegg and Miss Jo Fredine of Rocky, two brothers, Joe of Rocky and Donald of Lacombe. Another brother, Robert, was killed in action in the Italian campaign.

There were many families touched by the Korean War, and the Calkins family was one of them. I am really glad to have the opportunity to present this bill in the House today. I hope it has the unanimous support of all my colleagues.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would simply like to thank my colleague for a heartfelt and indeed stirring speech.

I wear a ring that was on my grandfather's hand when he lost his leg at the Battle of Drocourt-Quéant in 1918. I am well aware of the need to remember and honour our family members and fellow Canadians for what they have done over the decades for this country and indeed the larger values that they fought for.

I want to make one link. The hon. member noted that the Korean War was mobilized through the United Nations. In that same decade, the 1950s, another great Canadian, Lester Pearson, also helped mobilize the United Nations to bring to an end the Suez crisis. What we did in the Korean War and what happened at Suez deserve to be much better known by Canadians.

I thank the hon. member for bringing this bill forward. I had no particular question, just a comment.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Korean War in the 1950s, with the United Nations action, was a different time. It was a different era. It took a lot of leadership from all of our allies that were over there.

I want to thank my colleague for his personal input into this. It is a difficult thing for families and descendants to deal with. I am several generations down and it still affects me to this day. They are family members whom I have never met and never will have the opportunity to meet. I wonder how many other family members I would have had, had they survived. It is with great pleasure that I accept his comments.

Moving forward, we have to do everything we can as a nation to remind current and future generations of the tremendous sacrifices that were made by those who came before them. This bill would help to do that. I thank the member for his support.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development and to the Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, like the member, I have family members who participated not in the Korean War but in the Second World War. Obviously, the sacrifices that not only those individuals but their families made are of utmost value to all Canadians.

I would like to ask the member if he could comment on how he and his other family members came to the decision that this is something that should be memorialized. Why is this the focus for him and his family? Why is this so meaningful not just to himself but possibly to his children and other family members? Why does he feel so passionately about bringing forward this private member's bill?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the personal link for me to the Korean War is a matter of public record. It is something that I am passionate about simply because I do not think it has been well documented. It is called the forgotten war. I made comments on that in my speech. However, I can say that for those who served in Korea and for the family members of those who served in Korea, it is not a forgotten war. For too long Canada brushed it aside as a United Nations action. I think it was called a policing action at the time, when the reality is that it was an all-out war on the Korean Peninsula.

One only has to read a book about the Korean War, for example, Triumph at Kapyong by Daniel Bjarnason, which is a fantastic read if anybody has an opportunity to do that. We had our Thermopylae in Korea and it is called the Battle of Kapyong. I did a statement about it here a little while ago. Seven hundred Canadians of 2PPCLI, the same regiment that my great-uncle was a member of, stood in the face of thousands where all others had failed. Seven hundred stood in the face of an onslaught of aggression by thousands and thousands of enemy soldiers, and they held their position for several days. They were only a few kilometres north of the current place where Seoul, Korea is.

It is an absolute travesty that we have not actually learned of the tremendous heroic measures. These guys were all volunteers who went over there. They all volunteered to sign up for this. They went over there and did yeoman service.

Nowhere else in the world today is there a more distinct delineation between triumph in a battle and what happens when we fail to preserve liberty, peace and freedom for individuals. The stark contrast is no better displayed anywhere in the world today than the Korean Peninsula.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very honoured to stand today and speak in favour of Bill S-213, An Act respecting a national day of remembrance to honour Canadian veterans of the Korean War.

The bill would designate July 27 as Korean War Veterans Day to remember and honour the courage and sacrifice of Canadians who served in the Korean War and performed peacekeeping duties following the armistice of July 27, 1953.

July 27 was chosen because the Korean War armistice was signed on that day in 1953, putting an end to three years of fighting. The contribution of Canadian veterans of the Korean War has gone unrecognized for far too long.

This war started shortly after the end of World War II. Unfortunately, historians did not give the Korean War the importance it deserved, given the magnitude of World War II. As a result, the Korean War was too often forgotten.

This bill will again focus attention on the Korean War and do right by our veterans who fought in this war by giving them a day of commemoration to remember the sacrifice they made for Canada and South Korea.

This bill is in addition to the January 8, 2013, announcement by the Minister of Veterans Affairs, who declared 2013, which marks the 60th anniversary of the Korean War armistice, the Year of the Korean War Veteran.

Designating 2013 as the Year of the Korean War Veteran will allow Canadians to pay tribute to the 26,000 Canadians in uniform who came to the aid of South Koreans during that war. We will also be able to honour the 516 Canadians who died in service, defending the values of peace, freedom and democracy on the Korean Peninsula.

The NDP will support this bill because we want to highlight and commemorate the significant contribution made by our armed forces and our veterans, as well as the sacrifices made by their families during this major war.

I would like to congratulate the members from all parties and the veterans groups that worked together to create this bill.

Our critic for veterans affairs, the hon. member for Sackville—Eastern Shore, also took part in the drafting of this bill from the beginning. He suggested some improvements that were accepted right away so that everyone could support this important bill in order to do justice to the veterans of the Korean War. Everyone was able to work together for once. It is nice to see that, now and again, we can all contribute to the drafting of a bill.

I would also like to give some general background information on the Korean War conflict. Anyone who would like more detailed information can consult the Veterans Affairs website, which gives an excellent description.

At the end of the Second World War, the Soviet Union occupied North Korea while the Americans moved into South Korea.

After a communist government had been established in the north and a democratic government in the south, tensions between the two governments grew to a climax and, on June 25, 1950, the military forces of North Korea crossed the 38th parallel into South Korea. This marked the beginning of the war.

The newly formed United Nations decided to enter into its first armed intervention. Thus, 16 member nations, including Canada, would contribute military forces under the command of the United States.

Early in July 1951, ceasefire negotiations began. However, it was not until 1953 that peace was finally restored on the Korean Peninsula with the signing of the armistice on July 27, 1953.

It took two more years of negotiations and combat before peace was finally restored, when the armistice was signed at Panmunjom.

As I said, more than 26,000 Canadians were deployed in Korea, including the sailors on eight destroyers and the aviators who took part in numerous combat and transport missions.

I would therefore like to point out that Canada’s contribution was among the largest of all the nations that participated in that conflict. I would also like to point out that the duty to support applies every day, and not just on national memorial days or during Remembrance Week.

In my opinion, tributes from the government are not the only way to honour our veterans. Obviously, the respect we have for our soldiers and how we commemorate our veterans can also be seen in how the government treats them through the services offered by Veterans Affairs Canada.

The NDP listens closely to what our veterans need and are asking for. In fact, our leader has met with a number of veterans’ groups, as recently as this afternoon. That is how we keep in touch with Canadians and listen to what they need.

In my opinion, the best way to honour veterans is to treat them fairly. Today, for example, the compensation they are paid when they are injured does not treat them fairly. If they had been injured in a different workplace, various labour boards would have given them a lot more compensation than they receive at present. One of the best ways of paying tribute to our veterans is to treat them fairly. That is why, as the new charter is about to be revised, I call on the government to sit down with veterans and listen to what they are asking for, because there are a number of things to be done to improve the new charter.

In conclusion, we are supporting this important bill to give the Korean War and the veterans of that war a day so that it is no longer a forgotten war. This is a significant bill, and we thank the person who introduced it. I hope we will give this bill our unanimous support.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I begin my speech by acknowledging the work of Senator Yonah Martin, who has championed and introduced the bill in the Senate.

The Korean War and armistice have special meaning for Senator Martin, having been born in Seoul, Korea, and being a recipient of Korea's Order of Civil Merit Moran Medal.

The Liberal Party joins with the government, the New Democrats and the Green Party in support of Bill S-213. The bill would mark each July 27 as a special day to acknowledge the signing of the armistice between South Korea and North Korea, and to honour our soldiers who went there in the service of their country and in support of the United Nations.

Last month, I was included in that delegation that the member for Wetaskiwin referred to, which went to South Korea to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Korean War. I was there with 36 veterans and their caregivers. It was a very moving experience. I am grateful to have the opportunity this evening to share with the House some of my thoughts about that trip.

The Korean War began on June 25, 1950, when the military forces of North Korea crossed into South Korea. Canada, operating under the United Nations, contributed significant combat forces to defend South Korea, and as the hon. member for Toronto—Danforth pointed out, this was also a very, very important day in the early history of the United Nations. It was the first time that a United Nations force was deployed, fighting under the United Nations flag.

There were many fierce battles during this conflict, and many soldiers paid the ultimate price. Canadians played a critical role during the war and saw action in the Battle of Kapyong in April 1951. During that two-day battle, 10 Canadians were killed and 23 were wounded.

In late October 1952, in a place referred to as Little Gibraltar, Canadians fought bravely, as they did in Kapyong, and held their own against a determined North Korean enemy.

There are many other stories of bravery and heroism. In total, more than 26,000 Canadians served in the Korean War, and 516 young Canadians died in the service of others and in defence against aggression.

Two other stories about the Korean War also stand out. It was an especially sad day on November 21, 1950, when 17 soldiers of the 2nd Regiment of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery died in a train crash in British Columbia. These 17 soldiers were on their way to Korea. They were ready to take up the challenge and the call to service that would have taken them into a war zone. We cannot and shall not forget those 17 soldiers so tragically lost on that day.

The second relates to the contribution of Canadian women during the war. Not unlike the Second World War, women once again stepped up and played a vital role in the service of their country and to the war effort. More than 5,000 Canadian women served during the Korean War. They, too, bore witness to the brutality of war, many of them helping to nurse wounded soldiers. We think of them for their courage and sacrifice to Canada.

It is true that there was an armistice in 1953, but hostilities are still evident. While I was there, I was struck that just a mere hour north of Seoul, one is confronted by barbed wire fences that line the waterways. Heavily armed checkpoints are frequent and staffed around the clock. Spiked barrels prevent the easy passage of vehicles.

The demilitarized zone still has minefields and explosives set to destroy bridges and roads literally with the flip of a switch. Observation points continue to monitor movements of the enemy all along the 38th parallel. This is just in South Korea.

A state of alert continues to exist along the border. Not much is known, really, about North Korea, because of the tight control exercised by that regime. What we do know tells us a story of great poverty, human rights abuses and a country intent on continuing its nuclear weapons program.

It is my hope that one day this armistice will lead to a permanent and lasting peace, a peace that will allow for these two proud nations to set aside the past for good, for the good of harmony and prosperity.

Having been there, I can say there are a couple of encouraging signs. There is indeed an industrial park in North Korea that is operated with the cooperation of the two governments, with managers coming from South Korea and workers in the north. There also is a ministry of unification within the South Korean government, strangely enough.

The progress South Korea has experienced in the last 60 years is nothing short of remarkable. It is now the tenth largest economy in the world. The capital, Seoul, is a world-class, vibrant city of 11 million people, with high-rises and modern infrastructure. It has hosted the Olympics as well as the FIFA World Cup. It is a world leader in electronics and manufacturing. We have all heard of Hyundai and Samsung.

Again, what information we do have from North Korea indicates that this communist country has not fared nearly as well.

There is no question that the Canadian and UN veterans can take pride in and credit for the remarkable progress South Koreans have experienced over the last 60 years. South Korea has gone from being a recipient of foreign aid to a contributor. Canadians have helped a world citizen achieve its potential. It is the international community, not just the South Koreans, that is better for it.

The South Koreans have not forgotten. Everywhere the Canadian delegation went in Seoul, Busan, Kapyong and points in between, there were civilians waving, smiling and thanking us. Those smiling and acknowledging their Canadian heroes did so in a way that movingly broke through the language barrier. That was completely separate from the official, formal and military expressions of gratitude that were extended. Everyday citizens reacted to our veterans in a way that was spontaneous and heartfelt.

I should acknowledge the Minister of Veterans Affairs who led our delegation of Korean War veterans in Korea. We were there, as I indicated, to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Korean War. The minister included representatives from each of the opposition parties. The bipartisanship he has shown in this and in other commemorative events is a good example for his caucus and his cabinet colleagues.

We do not know when this conflict will finally end. We do hope that one day North Korea, a place of repression and secrecy, will begin to open up and allow more freedom and the protection of human rights.

We also hope that one day the sacrifice made 60 years ago by Canadian soldiers and others in defence of freedom will result in better conditions for the people of North Korea.

I again want to congratulate the government for bringing this bill forward to the House of Commons and, again, thank Senator Martin for her service and dedication to the people of Korea and for efforts to make this special day to mark the end of the Korean War a reality.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All those in favour will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the division stands deferred until tomorrow, Wednesday, May 8, immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

Situation in Syria

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The House will now proceed to the consideration of a motion to adjourn the House for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter requiring urgent consideration, namely the situation in Syria.

I will remind hon. members that in the course of emergency debates members are welcome to sit in any location that they choose in the House.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

moved:

That this House do now adjourn.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Mr. Speaker Scheer for giving us the opportunity to debate this issue today. I must confess that when I moved the motion I was not sure whether the Speaker would agree with me on the urgency of the situation. I am very glad that he did.

I am sure that many Canadians might ask themselves why the House of Commons would be taking a few extra hours on a Tuesday night to debate a question that to many Canadians may seem so far away. There are conflicts and challenges all over the world, yet this question of Syria has struck all of us as one that is extremely important. Let me try to express the reasons why.

It is because of where Syria is. It is a country of 22.5 million people in the middle of the Middle East, which over the last number decades has been perhaps the most difficult and challenging part of the world in terms of resolving conflict and dealing with the potential possibility of hostilities taking over and becoming even more serious than they are already.

It is a country that has become the test for the United Nations own sense of role and responsibilities to ensure civilians are protected and that there is human security for those people who are facing the challenge of how they will live, survive and get their next meal.

It is a country that not for a few years but for several decades has been ruled by a brutal dictatorship, that being the Assad family, the father and now the son, representing a relatively small religious sect within Islam, the Alawite sect. It has achieved the monopoly of the security service, armed itself significantly, and dramatically repressed the population, which has effectively closed its economy.

It is a country which in the face of the changes that are under way throughout the region has resisted every single one of these changes, in terms of opening up the economy, recognizing the plural nature of its society, establishing good relations with its neighbours and allowing a real sense of opportunity to its people.

Therefore, it really has been no surprise that at a time when there has been this movement called the Arab Spring—though some people now feel that is an inappropriately optimistic term to describe it—there would be strong elements within Syria that would insist that the country become more pluralistic and democratic, that it recognize human rights and that it allow its people to have their say in who their government would be.

When faced with this challenge from within, the Assad regime chose one particular path, that being the path of repression. That is a path which has caused enormous hardship to the people of Syria and which has caused great instability, not only in Syria but also throughout the region.

We now find that in a country of 22.5 million, some 1.5 million of them are now refugees living outside the country. That is in addition to the hundreds of thousands of people who, as the saying goes, are internally displaced. These are people who have been forced to leave their homes, forced to move somewhere else, or have had to leave whatever community they may have been in to get to a safer place. Of those 1.4 million refugees, some 62,000 are in Egypt, 143,000 in Iraq, 450,000 in Jordan, 450,000 in Lebanon and over 320,000 in Turkey.

By any definition, whatever else we face in Syria, whatever else may be said about the instability of what forces are at play, the overall security situation in the country, the challenge facing the security of the region itself from the violence and the repression in Syria, what we know for certain is that this is a humanitarian crisis of the first proportion.

This is an issue which affects not only the conscience of the world and therefore of Canada, but this is an issue which has to be dealt with on a practical basis. The presence of this many refugees in Jordan, and the presence of this many refugees in Lebanon and Turkey, poses a security risk and a threat to those countries, to say nothing of the financial risk and the financial threat which they face as a result of having this many people suddenly descend on them. These are not wealthy countries.

The minister is going to describe to us some of the things which the Government of Canada has been doing with respect to the refugee situation in Jordan, and I am afraid that members on our side are simply going to have to say “not yet enough”. There is still more to be done.

There is more to be done, in a few ways. The first is assisting these countries to deal with the refugee crisis in their midst. The second is assisting the UN High Commissioner for Refugees to deal with the continuing challenge it faces with having to run these camps. The third is to deal in a much more effective, efficient and advanced basis with the claims of many of those refugees to be reconciled with their relatives in Canada. That is as opposed to many other situations where we have responded more effectively as a country, and I think most recently of the crisis in Haiti, where claims for immigration were sped up so people could be reconciled with their families and we provided far more humanitarian aid. I would argue that in this situation Canada has been relatively slow to respond, proportionately to other countries certainly, and proportionately to the seriousness of the situation that is facing these countries.

Let us first of all recognize the humanitarian nature of the crisis. Let us recognize the fact that at the very least Canada has to be more engaged with other countries in dealing with the seriousness of the challenge posed to Syria's neighbours by virtue of the size and the extent of the refugee crisis.

My colleagues have spoken earlier, and my colleague from Scarborough held a press conference last week. He described the urgent challenge facing a great many people in these communities, where it appears the Canadian government has not been as responsive as it needs to be to the needs of people living in refugee camps. We do not appear to have a program in place that would allow for the speedy treatment and the speedy consideration of claims that are being made for reconciliation with families in Canada. We feel, and I am sure that the House feels the same, that we need to be doing more to respond to the urgent nature of this humanitarian crisis. Let me just complete this point. There is more to be done on the humanitarian crisis. There is more to be done for refugees. Canada needs to do more to step up to the plate and make a difference when it comes to dealing with the extent of the refugee crisis.

If that were the only issue, this could be a simple debate. However, the challenge the world now faces in Syria is one of the most difficult and one of the most complex challenges that we have faced in many different places.

As I have said before, we have to recognize the military strength of the Assad regime. The Assad regime has the capacity to repress. It has repressed. It has not hesitated to bomb its own people. It has not hesitated to kill its own people. It has not hesitated to respond to every challenge to it by means of a military response. It has been brutal, and in that brutality the United Nations estimates that as many as 80,000 people may have been killed.

If we were to apply a simple test to see if the Assad regime has treated its own people in a brutal fashion and whether that justifies an effective response from the rest of the world, the answer would be yes, to which we could say the world has responded. The world has responded by saying we have to cut Syria off from financial access to other markets. We have to make sure the people who are leading the Syrian regime know how seriously the rest of the world treats what is going on in Syria. We have to make sure that every effort has been made, from a financial point of view, to isolate Syria.

One has to say, as strong as those efforts may have been and as coordinated as they have been, they have not had the effect to sufficiently weaken the Assad regime, to force it into a situation where it has to bargain with the rebels, come to terms with the need for change, and to make every effort to find a political solution to the crisis we face. That has not happened.

Another simple response would be to say, “Why would the world not simply conclude that if the Syrian regime is not prepared to treat its citizens properly, not prepared to respond to the various resolutions of the Security Council, the United Nations, the Arab League, all of the statements that have been made for the Government of Syria to come to grips with the reality, then why would the world not take further action, military action”?

Naturally, there are always those who think that military action is required in a situation where a government does not heed global opinion or international laws, such as those made by the United Nations based on decisions of the General Assembly and the Security Council to ensure that countries treat their citizens in a fair and equitable manner.

However, it is important to recognize the problem. The problem that exists in the Middle East currently exists in Syria. Because of the nature of the conflict and Syria's geographic location in the Middle East, there is no easy military solution.

I just watched the minister on television a moment ago. He said that he would prefer a political solution to a military one. I believe that it is difficult to contradict what the Minister of Foreign Affairs said because we would all prefer a political solution to a military one. However, the problem is that people are saying that, without military pressure on Syria, the rebels, those who are revolting against Syria's dictatorial government, will not get help and the Syrian regime will say that there is not a problem, that there is no pressure and that it is not necessary to find solutions. The civil war will therefore continue. That is why we are saying that this is a complex situation.

However, it is important to remember one thing. Syria is in difficulty. It is in the midst of a civil war. Eighty thousand people are dead because of it. The world cannot just stand by and watch. We must find solutions. That is why we are calling for a greater commitment from the Canadian government.

I know the minister has said, and I think it is the strongest statement that I have certainly heard, that he is satisfied with the evidence that chemical weapons have been used in the struggle, but the difficulty is finding out who has used them, when they were used and how they were used. Again, I find myself in agreement with the minister. Of course that is what the world has to do, and of course it is proving very difficult to do it.

Where, in fact, I think there is a need for us to be more engaged and not less engaged as a country is in recognizing the challenge that the instability in Syria creates for the entire region. The instability in Syria affects Lebanon. The instability in Syria affects Jordan. The instability in Syria affects Israel, which is why Israel has felt obliged to respond when faced with evidence that missiles are going from Iran to Syria to Hezbollah.

We cannot look at this situation in isolation. We cannot say that this all seems like a conflict that is so far away that we cannot get involved and cannot be concerned. The reality is that not only is there a humanitarian crisis which demands a response from the rest of the world, there is also a crisis which will not stand still. Unless the world effectively engages with it, the stability of the entire region is threatened.

This is why we continue to hear from others in the region that they want to see a more coordinated response from the rest of the world.

I am not one of those who think that Canada itself is going to come up with a magical solution, that somehow there is going to be some miraculous Canadian intervention that will make a difference on its own. We are a middle power; however, we are a middle power with many friends and we are a middle power that is respected.

As a middle power, we have an obligation to use every means possible to bring two things into effect. The first is to ensure that the oppression and the killing for which the Assad regime is responsible comes to an end. The second is to be part of the effort to use the International Criminal Court to hold those who are responsible for the conflict and for the death and mayhem in Syria to account. If we do not stand up for the rule of international law and for the role of the International Criminal Court, we are simply saying to the Assad regime that it can wash its hands of this conflict and nobody will ask any questions.

Finally, we have to recognize one other thing. It is not only the use of chemical weapons posing a threat to the very existence of some people and of some communities and it is not only the tremendous instability created by the use of chemical weapons, completely against every order of international law and any test of humanity; it is, as the minister referred to in his public comments, the extent to which Syria has become a playground for extremism.

We now know that there are fighters from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Chechnya, as well as fighters who were in Iraq but are now back in Syria. We have to understand that this is the world in which we now live. However, the answer to that is not for Canada to be less engaged with the opposition, but to be even more engaged with the opposition.

I do not mean engaged in arming the opposition, as the minister might think I am saying, because that has never been a role that Canada has played. Canada has never played the role of an arms supplier to these various civil insurrections. What Canadians have done is to say we are not afraid of becoming politically engaged and reaching a better understanding who is who and who is where.

When we talk to people from the Syrian community in Canada, their main concern and main complaint, frankly, is that the Conservative government seems to be too determined to take a hands-off approach to even understand the nature of the conflict and the various elements in the opposition.

I am not pretending for a moment that it is easy. I am not pretending that it lends itself to easy solutions, and because of the very forces of instability that are now at play, I do not believe at the moment that a one-sided military intervention from the United States or from some other coalition is likely to get us to where we need to be.

I strongly support what Secretary Kerry and President Putin have decided to do, which is to hold another conference to get countries together to try and find a political solution. However, I do think we have to recognize that unless the world stands prepared to take the necessary steps to create the stability that we want to see and that the world needs to see in Syria, the risk is even greater instability in the years ahead and even greater hardship for the people who are living there.

It is a humanitarian crisis, a political crisis, a security crisis and an issue that demands a response from Canada. We would all like to see a future of stability, one in which the drive from Jerusalem to Damascus and from Damascus to Beirut could happen with nary a checkpoint, a future in which a train ride from Tel Aviv to Beirut could happen with nary a checkpoint. We would like to see that kind of world. It is an open world, a free world and a democratic world.

We are not going to get there overnight. We are not going to get there by wishing for it or by praying for it. We are not going to get there by simply analyzing what is happening from a great distance. We have to be prepared to become more engaged. In that engagement, Canada will gain some of the respect and some of the position in the world that Canada deserves for the efforts that it can make and should make in the months ahead.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Liberal foreign affairs critic for his speech. I listened to it and I found it quite interesting. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome him back to the foreign affairs file and say that we on the foreign affairs committee look forward to working with him in the coming weeks and months.

To begin with, I wanted to correct a couple of things that I heard him say that I think were not quite correct.

He insinuated that Canada had somehow not done its fair share in humanitarian relief efforts in Syria. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is that Canada—and I know he has the means to check these facts—is the largest contributor on a per capita basis to humanitarian relief with respect to Syrian refugees through the refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

Turkey is very grateful and thankful for the funds that have been directed from Canada through the Red Crescent Society. I had the opportunity to visit some of those Syrian refugee camps in January with the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration when that was announced.

Second, he mentioned that Turkey was not a wealthy country. Turkey is the 16th-largest economy in the world. It is a G20 nation, and relative to a lot of countries in Europe, it is doing quite well in terms of its economy these days.

Many people have suggested that something that could be done to help the people in Syria would be for the international community, including Turkey, to establish a no-fly zone along the Turkish border between Aleppo and the Turkish border. It would be a place where people could go to get away from the fighting and be safe, and anything that attacked them from the air could be knocked down by a coalition of international forces in that region.

What does the member think about that limited possibility?

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I hesitate to improvise military policy on the fly in the House of Commons of Canada. I think a lot of suggestions will be made as to what additional form of military pressure could be put on Syria short of some kind of massive invasion or bombing. My own sense of the current civilian situation is that bombing of any indiscriminate kind would have a huge effect on the civilian population of Syria and would not advance the cause whatsoever.

The Syrian air force is not exactly without capability, so if we are going to establish a no-fly zone, we have to be aware of what the response would be from the Syrian air force. Our experience with other no-fly zones is that if we want to establish a no-fly zone, we would have to knock out virtually the entire air defence capacity of Syria. Doing that is an enormously complex and difficult undertaking, and one whose consequences one would have to understand.

My point is that in thinking through what we are going to do, at every step of the way we need to think through what the consequences of these actions would be. What are the next steps going to be? What are the conclusions that we are going to reach?

My concern on the one side is that if we are not prepared to look at every possibility, that will be read by the Assad regime as another get-out-of-jail-free card. They will continue to see this as the world talking big and doing little and they will continue to see it as a licence to do whatever they want to do.

On the other side, if we simply engage in an excess of rhetoric that leads us to say here are red lines and here are lines in the sand and here is what we are now going to do, everyone has to understand the importance of what I call consequential thinking. What is going to be the consequence of that step? How are we going to follow it up? I think the issue that the minister—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Order, please. I will allow the member about 20 seconds or so to finish his thought, and then we do need to get on with questions and comments.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will not abuse it.

The minister has pointed out quite rightly that the question is “What follows Assad?” What do we really know about the forces that are going to be replacing Assad? That is the most consequential question we have to ask, and we have to say that it is something to which we have to have an answer.

That is not an excuse for supporting the Assad regime, but it is a way of insisting that for whatever steps we take, we have to better understand the consequences.