Debates of June 13th, 2013

Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member was listening, because it is important for him to know of the dependence of the government on the Senate.

Obviously, it is something that touches some of them who still believe that there should be some accountability. Kicking the addiction to tobacco is difficult. The government does not seem to be able to kick its addiction to the Senate. It is something it is going to have to work on. Clearly, it is a crutch the government cannot carry on with any credibility as a government that is accountable, particularly for those who pretended to come into town under the Reform banner suggesting that they were going to be different. However, that is another story.

When we look at the fact that this bill was brought from the Senate, that is one thing, but when the government talks about how important it is to deal with contraband tobacco and then puts time allocation on it, that makes one wonder. The government is suggesting that it heard enough witnesses in the other place, and now we can spirit it through here, because the other place dealt with it sufficiently. What happened to our independence over here? The government does not even distinguish anymore.

It has brought in time allocation, as I said, for the 47th time for Bill S-16. Why? I think it is that it really does not want to have debate, does not want to hear witnesses and does not care that there is actually more allowance for debate over there than here. That is what we are talking about.

An issue as important as contraband tobacco, which is something we have talked about here and that all parties agree on, the government will only allow five hours of debate on, because it actually does not want to debate. That is the subtext.

It is also important to note that this issue and this bill touch on not just what is happening in Canada. Contraband tobacco and the trade of contraband goods is an international problem. It is an international problem that has been affecting many of our allies, including our best ally and biggest trading partner, the United States. One of the things they have had problems with is trying to track it. If contraband materials are not checked, be it tobacco or other materials, that will actually undermine the credibility of governments and lead to massive corruption. Governments become dependent on contraband for revenue. That has happened.

We have seen this happen in countries. I will not name them, because I do not want to undermine the credibility of some of our allies. There have been recent cases where it has gotten so bad that countries, and some of the regions within countries, have been dependent on contraband revenues, and the very people who have been elected to represent the citizens of those countries have lost the ability to govern.

We have to be serious about it. I agree with those who mentioned that before. If we just look the other way when it comes to contraband, we will wake up one day and find that it is very difficult to deal with it. It is something that can corrode the ability of governments to actually do their jobs and govern. It is a serious issue.

We also have to accept the fact that we need people abroad to do that job. I just want to mention that one of the things we are very concerned about on this side of the House is the fact that the people who are representing us abroad right now are feeling that they are not being represented by the government. They have not been able to actually negotiate with the government.

It has gotten to the point that we have foreign service officers, who actually keep an eye on things like contraband and work with our border agencies, are having to go on strike and picket embassies. Right now, they are not being listened to. As I mentioned in the House earlier today, it has gotten to the point that the government cannot even negotiate with diplomats. That is how bad it is.

It is very important that we have those foreign service officers and border agencies that represent us abroad ensure that they are working with other jurisdictions to look at the patterns of corruption and at the sources of corruption when we are looking at contraband.

Contraband moves globally. It moves around the world, and we have to have good eyes and ears to work with our allies on it.

I would encourage the government to sit down right now with the people it needs to negotiate with, and that is our foreign service officers. The interesting thing that most people do not know is that they have accepted the government's demands for wage increases and the elimination of severance pay. If we are not negotiating with foreign service officers, and the government does not have the trust of our foreign service officers who deal with an issue as important as contraband, then it will be very difficult to crack down on it, and the government should know that.

I underline the importance of the government sitting down and negotiating with the brave men and women who are patriotic and represent us overseas. They are foreign service officers. I hope the government will have common sense and sit down at the table with them. The men and women abroad and the Canada Border Services Agency are the people who will deal with the concerns we all have with regard to the trade of contraband.

In the case of tobacco, it is important to underline that it is not just our friends to the south. This is a global issue. The markets are global. The trade of contraband tobacco is everywhere. It is in Asia, Europe and Africa. What I have not heard enough about from the government is the need to deal with corporations that right now are involved in the trade of contraband by way of fiat. What I mean by that is that there are corporations that are able to move product around the globe. We need to look at that. This is not just a couple of guys deciding that they are going to buy a bunch of tobacco, make their own product and sell it to kids, although I am sure that is happening. This is big business. These are big interests with big money, and we need to have the proper resources to fight it.

The government talks a good line on trying to crack down on this kind of crime. I will give it credit for that. The problem is that when we actually dig into the numbers and look at what the government has done to reach the goal of dealing with contraband tobacco, it is cutting border services and the capacity of the RCMP. Then it says that it is really serious about this. It cannot be serious about this issue unless it is going to have the requisite laws—and, yes, there are some good things in this bill that should be passed—and fulfills its commitment by having the resources on the ground. It has to make sure it has good labour relations with foreign service officers, gives the Canada Border Services Agency the tools it needs and makes sure the RCMP has the capacity it needs to deal with the issue.

By the way, on the RCMP, it is very important that we have a system to decide who is going to represent it. Recently, the government brought forward an initiative in the RCMP that is going to undermine the ability of the RCMP to do its work. Why do I say that? We learned recently that the government seems to reject the whole notion of allowing the RCMP to bargain through a union. The government thinks this is somehow going to undermine its credibility as a police force, when, in fact, what many within the RCMP want is to select their own representatives to bargain on their behalf, like other police forces, and bring forward the issues that matter to them.

The government does not want that. However, if there is going to be professionalism and the requisite training, the most important issue, when it comes to the relationship between management and those doing the job, is trust. The trust between the government and the upper levels of the RCMP, I do not have to tell anyone, is fragile.

For the RCMP officers to do their jobs and crack down on contraband tobacco, they need to have the trust of the government. They need reforms, which the government has fought against, and they need to have trust.

Right now, we do not often have trust between the border agents and the government. The RCMP is the same. Now we have the weird spectacle of diplomats actually striking, which is unprecedented. We look around the world and see diplomats on strike because our government cannot sit down and talk to diplomats.

It is not just the law. It is the capacity to enforce the law. I am very concerned that the government passes a bill and then says that all is fine. We have seen that with its crime bills. We have had provinces declare that these bills will hurt them.

When some of the players in the government were in the Ontario government, they passed laws, downloaded and said, “Here it is. Go deal with it”. They do nothing to help at the local level, or in this case, with provinces, which end up having to deal with laws the government passes without consultation and without any accommodation for the cost of their bills. We saw the costs being passed down for prisons and the basic justice system.

We will support the principles of the bill, but we have to note that the government has failed when it comes to gaining the trust of those who have to carry out and enforce this bill, in particular, when it comes to capacity, be it the RCMP, foreign service officers, who are simply trying to sit down and negotiate, or the Canadian border service agents.

I would urge the government to deal with the full spectrum of what it means to deal with contraband tobacco and actually invest in the human resources. It should stop the rhetoric, deal with the reality and come up with a full spectrum when it comes to contraband.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Minister of State (Western Economic Diversification)]

Mr. Speaker, here are some statistics. Since 2008, the RCMP has laid approximately 5,000 charges under the Excise Act, 2001. The RCMP disrupted approximately 66 organized crime groups involved in contraband tobacco. Approximately 3.5 million cartons and unmarked bags of cigarettes were seized nationally by the RCMP, along with numerous vehicles, vessels and properties.

Since 2009, RCMP seizures of contraband tobacco have decreased by 41%, from 975,000 cartons and unmarked bags of cigarettes to 580,000 cartons and unmarked bags in 2011.

The member talked about the province. Has he spoken to the province about some of these statistics and how they impact Ontario, his province?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be very direct with the member. Ontario and many other provinces have concerns about the downloading by the government when it comes to bringing in laws and not providing the support to enforce them.

While I am on my feet, I also want to underline the point that the government has to deal with this as a health issue. I heard some very moving testimony from my colleague about his father. I think we all have stories within our families about those who are addicted to tobacco.

We should lessen the effects of tobacco on our population. The government is actually bringing forward the regulations for dealing with light and mild cigarettes, which were announced in 2007 and re-announced in 2011. We are still waiting for the government to act on that. I would encourage the government to do that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, by my count, the hon. member for Ottawa Centre spent about 60% of his remarks on the Senate. I would just like to walk through that door with him if I could, just to pick up where he left off. I would also caution him not to speak too openly about the RCMP. Most Canadians are looking at CTV News right now watching the RCMP in hot pursuit of his leader.

However, I share the hon. member's concern about the place of origin of the bill and the sequence by which it has been placed in the House of Commons. I also share his concern about the Senate having challenges. There is no doubt about it.

However, the member has been quite forceful and quite direct about his views on the Senate. I think that by implication, he is in favour of the Senate's abolition. Fair enough. That is a good position for him to take. I respect his position. I do not agree with it, but I respect it.

However, could he take a second and walk us through exactly how the NDP would abolish the Senate? Please do not tell us that he would simply conduct a referendum in the country. What measures, what sequence of events, would have to take place that would lead, if the NDP were in power, to the abolition of the Senate?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think the member should talk to his brother. I actually agree with his brother on one thing: Dalton and I do disagree on a lot, but Dalton and I agree on abolishing the Senate.

I know we are talking about contraband tobacco and I will get back to that, but to answer the member's question about how we would do it, we would listen to the people. It is probably not a bad thing. There are members over there who used to believe in referendums and going to the people, but they lost that long ago. They were corrupted by power.

We should talk to the people. The people of Canada should be heard. We should go to the people of Canada and ask them. We should then ask the premiers if they want to listen to the people of Canada, and if so, then let us do this, let us amend the Constitution and abolish the Senate.

Speaking of hot pursuit, I hope the RCMP are in hot pursuit of Mac Harb. My God, the constituents in my riding who are waiting for affordable housing would love to see the $200,000 go toward building affordable housing and not to Mr. Harb—

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. The hon. member for Dartmouth--Cole Harbour.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague talked a lot about the fact that Canada's legislation is good but the way the government is going about it, by bringing it in through the back door, is wrong. The lack of consultation and shutting down debate is wrong.

I wonder if he would agree with me that there is an additional concern here and that is the fact that the government has cut $687.9 million from public safety from 2012 to 2015. That was in budget 2012. Then again in 2013, these cuts continued with a 29.8% decrease.

I would like the member to comment on the fact that the Conservative government is great at standing up and pontificating on how it is tough on crime, but when it comes to putting dollars where they count, in order to make sure that law enforcement agencies can do something about these issues, it falls flat.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, finally a question that is so focused and clear that I can answer it with absolute certainty.

That is exactly the problem with the government. It passes these laws, it talks at great lengths about cracking down on crime, but the problem is it takes all the tools away, so we end up with a lot of rhetoric and laws on the books but no enforcement mechanisms. It is undermined.

That is why provinces are speaking out. That is why people are concerned about the lack of consultation. We have a government that is actually downloading all of its responsibilities to someone else. That is called freeloading where I come from. If the government says that it is going to do one thing in terms of law and then turns around and makes someone else pay, I call it freeloading. That is what the Conservative government is doing.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is obviously an important bill.

I did not hear much in the member's speech on some of the more technical issues and I would just like the member to weigh in on them. Does he recognize that tools are given to both the provincial Attorneys General and the federal Attorney General to coordinate on these issues?

There is the premise that the current system of enforcement is mainly in the Excise Act. I would like to know if he appreciates having these other tools in the Criminal Code to charge and go after those who are trafficking in heavy amounts, because they often support organized crime.

Since the member said that some provinces are not supportive, I would like him to name one or two of the provinces that are not supportive of this bill.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my father spent most of his career working for customs and excise. One of the things that he always related to me was the need for capacity. He did not call it that in those days, but he meant that human resources were needed to do the job. He used to negotiate GATT in Belgium. He was proud of the fact that we would negotiate realistic terms that were in line with other countries. When things were being negotiated at that time, things like the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, everything needed to be synchronized and in line. We need to do that here in Canada with the provinces. We can pass these powers to Attorneys General across the country, but if we do not have the mechanism for enforcement, then we have only done half the job.

The government has not done its homework or consulted. Sadly and specifically, most provinces are against the direction the government is going. It brings in crime bills but does not follow up with the capacity. That is the problem with the Conservative government, and that is the problem with the way it does business.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Resuming debate.

Before I recognize the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake, I will just inform the House that we are now moving into the section of debate where speeches will only be ten minutes and questions and comments five minutes.

The hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak in favour of Bill S-16, an act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco).

The bill proposes amendments to the Criminal Code to create a new offence of trafficking in contraband tobacco and provide minimum penalties of imprisonment for persons who are convicted for a second and subsequent time for this offence.

I am going to be speaking very specifically about the bill, unlike some of the other speeches that we have heard from the other side today, so members will not have to make sure that I am being relevant.

The bill would fulfill the government's 2011 election policy platform commitment to help reduce the problem of trafficking in contraband tobacco by establishing mandatory jail time for repeat offenders of trafficking in contraband tobacco. I have to thank the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Health for working together to bring about all the aspects of what we are trying to accomplish with Bill S-16.

Bill S-16 proposes to create a new offence dealing with contraband tobacco trafficking. Indeed, the bill would prohibit possession for the purpose of sale, offer for sale, transportation, delivery or distribution of a tobacco product or raw leaf tobacco that is not packaged, unless it is stamped. The terms “tobacco product”, “raw leaf tobacco”, “packaged”, and “stamped” have the exact same meanings as we see in section 2 of the Excise Tax Act of 2011.

The maximum penalty for a first offence would be up to six months' imprisonment on summary conviction and up to five years' imprisonment if prosecuted on indictment.

Repeat offenders convicted of this new offence in cases involving 10,000 cigarettes or more or 10 kilograms or more of any other tobacco product or 10 kilograms or more of raw leaf tobacco would be sentenced to a mandatory minimum of 90 days on a second conviction and a minimum of 180 days on a third conviction, and a minimum of two years less a day on subsequent convictions.

These proposed measures would undoubtedly have an impact on organized crime and on the sale of contraband tobacco. I also believe that this initiative would have a positive effect on the health of Canadians.

We all know, and we have heard it said here earlier today, that there are really three general rules for healthy living. If we want to have a healthier Canada, there are three things that we really have to do: get physical activity on a daily basis, eat well and eat healthy, and stop smoking.

For those who do not smoke, do not start. Smoking cessation is key to ensuring that people live longer. Smoking is tied to so many health problems, whether it is lung disease, heart disease or cancer. Those are the things that we have to ensure we prevent and save people all the agony of going through those terrible chronic illnesses.

We also know that there are a number of things that we can do to stop smoking and reduce smoking and other tobacco intakes. We know that implementing high tobacco prices achieved through excise taxes is an evidence-based strategy to reduce the use of tobacco products. We know among Canadian adults it is estimated that a 10% increase in price is estimated to result in a decrease in cigarette demand of up to 4%. There is a correlation. It is proven and it is statistical.

However, the presence of cheap contraband cigarettes, sold without all appropriate taxes applied, undermines the potential health benefits of this effective intervention by providing an accessible alternative to quitting, thereby increasing relapses and encouraging people to start smoking again.

The illegal sale of contraband cigarettes increased exponentially in Canada between 2002 and 2008, particularly in Canada's largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec. In 2008, the contraband tobacco market in Ontario was estimated to be as much as 42% of total cigarette sales. Contraband cigarettes enter the Canadian market through many sources: unlawfully or lawfully manufactured and smuggled in from the United States, unlawfully manufactured right here in Canada, counterfeit products entering the country illegally, and other related criminality, such as thefts.

Studies have demonstrated that persons who smoke contraband cigarettes have higher levels of nicotine dependence, have been smoking for longer in terms of pack-per-year history, have no intention to quit, perceive themselves to be very addicted, have previously used pharmacotherapy to stop smoking and are exposed to smoking in the home, compared with those who used premium or discount tobacco brands. Studies have also shown that people who smoke contraband cigarettes are somewhat less likely to attempt to quit compared to those who use a premium or discount tobacco brand.

We all know that tobacco products are ranked by the World Health Organization as a level one carcinogen. That puts it on the same level as asbestos, mustard gas and nuclear radiation. Therefore, we need to make sure that people stay away from tobacco products. As the member for Oak Ridges—Markham mentioned earlier tonight, I have witnessed people in my family, loved ones, suffer horribly and die horrific deaths because of their heavy tobacco use throughout their lives.

In my view, a successful approach to combatting contraband tobacco cannot rely solely on legislation. Although tough legislation such as Bill S-16 is necessary, a government strategy must also involve the use of law enforcement.

We have been talking tonight about some of the efforts being made by law enforcement agencies, particularly the RCMP. In this regard I have to note that our government is advancing its efforts to combat the trafficking and cross-border smuggling of contraband tobacco by standing up and establishing a 50-officer RCMP anti-contraband tobacco force. This anti-contraband tobacco force would target organized crime groups engaged in the production and distribution of contraband tobacco. Its goal is to have a measurable impact on reducing the contraband market and on combatting organized criminal networks. This would align with the RCMP contraband tobacco enforcement strategy, which focuses on reducing the availability of and demand for contraband tobacco and the involvement of organized crime, as well as build on our existing federal enforcement measures.

The Government of Canada recognizes that contraband tobacco smuggling has become a serious problem in the last few years. Certainly, Canadians want to be protected from offenders involved in these contraband tobacco smuggling operations, which threaten their safety and that of their families, as well as their health and the health of our youth.

I can speak for the communities of Selkirk—Interlake, which are very rural ridings, and Metis and first nation communities. No one likes having criminal elements in our neighbourhoods. No one wants those criminal elements and organized criminal gangs selling contraband tobacco and other illicit drugs to our youth. Canadians want to be protected from organized crime that is associated with contraband tobacco activities. These proposed amendments and the establishment of a 50-officer RCMP anti-contraband tobacco force would do just that.

I have to say that I respect the RCMP and all of its efforts related to community safety. I respect the work that it is doing on the Hill. I know it wants to stop contraband, stop organized crime and stop smoking. I just wish that the NDP leader would stop at stop signs, that he would stop for the RCMP cruisers when they chase him and he would stop being so mean.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments of the member opposite. I would ask him to explain to Canadians how he and his colleagues think they can achieve all that needs to be achieved, as he so rightly said, with respect to the enforcement of contraband tobacco, when there has been nearly $700 million cut from public safety. The regional priorities and planning document from that department stated that there would be nearly 700 people cut from public safety over the next three years. How will it be able to do everything we want it to do if it does not have the tools and the resources to carry out those responsibilities? Could he please explain that?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, we would be able to do this within existing resources, and we would make sure we were standing up a 50-member RCMP unit that would go out and target where the high levels of contraband are. They would be able to do this within existing divisions across the country. They would get the support they need from the existing budget and from their own leadership. We know they would have a positive impact on reducing contraband sales as well as the criminal activities that are tied to the smuggling of contraband and illicit sales across this country.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague and friend for the work he has done on skin cancer.

According to the senior policy adviser with the Canadian Cancer Society:

Tobacco is the leading preventable cause of disease and death in Canada, and we need sustained federal government action in response. Other countries are looking at new ways to protect their citizens from tobacco-related disease.

The government previously set a goal to reduce the number of people who smoke to one in eight Canadians. Currently Health Canada reports that tobacco is responsible for 37,000 deaths annually. I am wondering what other recommendations the member would suggest the government bring forward to reduce smoking rates to the 12% prevalence goal adopted by the government in 2007.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, we just actually renewed the federal tobacco strategy here in 2012, and we are going to continue to work on tobacco control. This is aimed to preserve the gains we have made over the past 10 years and to continue the downward trend of smoking prevalence.

As the member mentioned, the worst part of tobacco use is cancer and the horrible way it impacts upon people's lives and all that we have to deal with in losing loved ones because of the cancer caused by cigarette smoking.

It is not just cancer. We are talking about respiratory diseases and heart illness. One cigarette contains more than 4,000 chemicals. We know that 70 of those are carcinogenic, and they contribute to numerous forms of cancer. We have to make sure that does not happen.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know what measures the Conservative government plans to take in order to ensure that if minimum sentences are applied, the provinces and the federal government have the means, the resources and the space to accommodate all these people.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the bill does provide for co-operation between Attorneys General across this country as we have seen in other pieces of legislation. The federal Attorney General and provincial Attorneys General would be coordinating any problems they may see in increases in imprisonment in provincial jails.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I asked my colleague a question earlier and said that I quit smoking 10 days ago. I appreciate the warm applause I received from most of the members in the House. I think that if everyone got that kind of encouragement when they quit smoking, far more people would do it and feel motivated. I wanted to thank my colleagues before starting my speech.

Today, I will be speaking to Bill S-16 on tackling contraband tobacco. The purpose of the bill is to add offences to the Criminal Code, particularly with regard to contraband tobacco. The bill also introduces minimum sentences, among other things.

The 2012 National Assembly of Quebec study on measures to counter the use of contraband tobacco found that:

In 2007, more than one-third of the cigarettes smoked in Quebec and Ontario were contraband and over 90% of these illegal cigarettes came from aboriginal reserves and lands.

It is important that we not take these statistics lightly. These are alarming numbers, and I think they are also cause for concern when it comes to health and safety.

The provisions being introduced by the government seem superficial or do not reflect all the issues associated with contraband cigarettes. We want this matter to be addressed in committee so that we can understand and clarify all the related issues.

We must think more comprehensively. Contraband cigarettes are one part of the overall issue of smoking. I think it must be addressed in a much more comprehensive, societal manner. We must adopt a holistic vision. Contraband is a symptom. It is one factor that reveals a whole.

This increasing production and distribution meet a consumer demand. Why is that demand growing? Why is contraband growing?

First we have to understand that demand among young people is high because prices are low. Cigarettes are unfortunately readily available and everywhere. It is much easier for a youth to get hold of contraband cigarettes than cigarettes purchased in the legal market, if you compare the two products. Legislation has been made tougher. Stiff fines can be levied on food markets, and they will no longer take the risk of selling to young people. However, dealers in contraband cigarettes have taken advantage of this by the back door. That causes another problem.

Info-tabac.ca has offered an explanation regarding young people:

While legally sold cartons cost approximately $60, smokers can buy 200 aboriginal cigarettes (the equivalent) for one third of the price. In addition to being available to anyone who wishes to buy them, including minors, these “discount” packs do not carry any health warnings.

This unconditional permanent availability at lower prices is the crux of the problem. It undermines health, but also safety and the economy. The situation results in major monetary losses for various countries and monetary losses for businesses and authorized resellers.

Furthermore, the Association des détaillants en alimentation has noted that cigarette sales have fallen by 30% to 50%. We would be very happy if there had been a similar decline in smoking, but there has unfortunately been no significant reduction in tobacco consumption. Sadly, it even continues to increase.

According to that same association, sales of contraband tobacco are still rising at a tremendous pace and now exceed legal tobacco sales. The result is a genuine social and economic crisis. Criminal groups control most of the market. The rise in tobacco use by young people is caused by the low price and high availability of illegal tobacco.

Tax revenues from tobacco sales in Canada have fallen by nearly $2.4 million, and there have been job losses as a result of the thousands of convenience stores that have closed since trafficking in contraband tobacco began.

This illegal trafficking is also alarming from a public safety standpoint because of uncertainty over the content of these cigarettes—the chemicals they contain—and unfortunately because of the growth in illegal rings in the area. These trafficking rings often have targets because this is a financing method for them. However, they do not merely engage in cigarette trafficking; they also traffic in drugs and weapons. In my opinion, these two factors pose even greater threats to our security both nationally and internationally.

Our approach to combating contraband has to change. First of all, it is fundamentally important to consult the provinces, the territories and first nations communities. In its study on measures to combat illegal tobacco use, the Public Finance Committee of Quebec's National Assembly recommends:

That the Government of Quebec create a joint commission involving five parties, namely the governments of Quebec, Ontario, Canada and the United States as well as the Mohawk nation, to fight contraband tobacco and to develop an action plan dealing...with: A “win-win” agreement among the governments and aboriginal people to stop the large-scale tax-exempt sale of tobacco to non-aboriginal people...

I think we need to apply this logic at the federal level so that we can get to the crux of the issue and understand expectations. The 2009 report of the Government Task Force on Illicit Tobacco Products stated:

...any comprehensive attempt to address the domestic tobacco situation in Canada will require the participation and collaboration of First Nations communities.

In order to fight contraband effectively on the ground, we need to work in partnership with the communities that are most affected, just as we need to work with aboriginal people, youth and people faced with social challenges or living in poverty.

We can also target youth with public awareness and information programs on contraband cigarettes. We can do more to protect minors. Of course, it is already illegal to sell tobacco to minors, but we can do more to highlight the dangers of smoking.

One of the measures is to work with grassroots campaigns spearheaded by associations, neighbourhoods, merchants and relatives. We must work together with those who are already in the field, with those who are directly involved.

A study of the problem giving rise to the bill requires a comprehensive strategy at the federal level, in conjunction with the groups that are affected and involved. We must facilitate a dialogue in order to find possible courses of action and ensure consistency in the measures implemented.

In my opinion, if we send the bill to committee, we will have an opportunity to hear from witnesses and experts who have legitimate experiences to share. I sincerely hope the committee will do some very good work, so that we can adopt a holistic approach that is a great deal more comprehensive than what is set out in the current bill. We must not only work with grassroots groups on the ground, but also with law enforcement authorities to make sure we have enough police and they are able to get to the root of the problem efficiently.

There must also be better control at borders and for that, unfortunately, we need more people. Because of recent cuts, it is increasingly difficult for teams of border officers to play a part in this campaign.

We must think in terms that are much broader than those in the current bill and set up a global strategy that takes into account all the stakeholders who are doing everything they can to fight the problem, a strategy that maintains or increases staff in the Canada Border Services Agency and one that preserves funding allocated to the police.

One of the measures to be taken involves resolving the paradox between the lack of preventive action and the elimination of smuggling. Unfortunately, people still talk about the law of supply and demand, so it is appropriate to take action that reduces the demand.

We need to do more to encourage people to stop smoking so that, when they realize that smoking costs too much, they do not turn to smuggled cigarettes but rather to smoking cessation help.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Minister of State (Western Economic Diversification)]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member talk about what this bill would do, but I believe that she missed the primary target of this new offence, and that is organized crime and the organized crime groups that are involved in the large volume trafficking of contraband tobacco. In her speech this evening, I did not hear her address the real issue and the real primary target of the legislation, and that is organized crime.

Would she please speak to that?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry that my colleague was not able to hear the whole of my speech. I said very clearly that this benefits organized crime, organizations that also deal in weapons and drugs. I did say that these dangers were even greater and that criminal organizations are not content with merely being involved in contraband tobacco.

I do not know why she did not hear this part of my speech, but I think I expressed myself very clearly. I am really quite astounded that she did not understand.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I remind my colleague that almost half the world's children breathe air polluted by tobacco smoke. Tobacco kills someone every six seconds and kills up to half of all users. It is a risk factor for six of the eight leading causes of death in the world. According to Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada and the Non-Smokers' Rights Association, existing laws were not enough to prevent industry from achieving a significant delay in the implementation of new health warnings.

In her opinion, has the federal government addressed all elements of the global tobacco treaty?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not have the treaty in question in front of me, so it is difficult for me to answer the question.

However, with regard to young people, I would like to mention a point that I did not have a chance to discuss in my speech. Children who are exposed to second-hand smoke can also be influenced by the example they have in front of them and start smoking. Young people often smoke in secret. It is very hard for them to say openly that they have made a mistake and that they would like to stop smoking and get help.

When you do not have enough money to buy cigarettes legally, or at market prices, it is easier to buy illegal cigarettes than to find help to stop smoking. It is not necessarily easy to get help.

[François Pilon, NDP, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my daughter lives in Oka. When I go to visit her, I go past stands with signs saying “Illegal Cigarettes” in big letters.

No one is arrested, because the police, due to the lack of resources, cannot arrest people who sell illegal cigarettes right now, even if they do have big signs.

Does my colleague think that, without funding, this bill will do anything to change this state of affairs?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is one of the essential points I stressed in my speech.

The funding must be part of an overall approach. We cannot merely put legislative measures in place; we must also allocate funding to tackle the problem. Border agent positions have been eliminated, but tobacco often moves across borders.

If we really want to tackle contraband tobacco, we must not only address the legal aspect, but also provide funding for the agencies that work to combat it. We also have to talk about tobacco addiction and do more prevention so that fewer and fewer people smoke and demand for these products shrinks. We also have to improve access to resources that will help people to stop smoking.