Debates of June 13th, 2013

Second reading

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very insightful and thoughtful speech. This is a huge problem for the greater community of Ottawa–Gatineau. I have had retail store operators, local RCMP detachment officers, the Ottawa Police and beyond, make representations on the question of contraband cigarettes.

I was struck by one of the issues that was raised by my colleague in his speech, that being the question of effective outreach, communication, publicity and advertising. We need to impress upon Canadians that we need to continue what is really a very dramatic success story in Canada in terms of the number of people in Canada who do not smoke.

The government seems to have an awful lot of revenue for its economic action plan. We are seeing numbers now at about $100 million a year. I saw the ads again last night during the playoff hockey game. It did not spoil the game. It was a great game.

On a serious note, I want to ask my colleague if he could talk a bit about what he would envisage in terms of outreach and engagement, to make sure those powerful weapons are deployed against contraband tobacco products so that people do not smoke or we basically prevent them from starting to smoke. It is a terrible addiction. It would be very helpful to have my colleague speak to that.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying before, I think most Canadians would shun contraband tobacco if they understood what was going on in the background when they purchased a cigarette. If one understood that one is unwittingly participating or feeding a multi-layered system of organized crime that touches on all kinds of issues, like gun smuggling, drug smuggling and human trafficking, I think people would think twice. The government needs to explain to Canadians the linkages between illegal tobacco and other crime problems in our society.

Over the years, I have had the opportunity to work with Heidi Rathjen, who was one of the spearheads, with Wendy Cukier, behind the push for the long gun registry. I do not want to mix the two issues. However, after working on that issue for a number of years, Heidi went to work for the Coalition québécoise pour le contrôle du tabac. She has been speaking to me over the years, wishing that the government would do more and would be more receptive to suggestions and recommendations. I hope the Minister of Health will take Heidi and her group seriously in terms of further developing a strategy against tobacco use.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Lac-Saint-Louis for his speech.

I had the privilege of being a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Dura lex, as the expression goes; the law is strict. While the law may be strict on paper, if we do not have the means to enforce it, then what good is it? Instead of being a real deterrent for criminals and traffickers of all kinds, it would merely be an idle threat.

During our deliberations in the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, members have repeatedly pointed out that the government often likes to hide behind harsh sentences and laws that are strict on paper, but does not provide sufficient resources. That is something we in the NDP are very concerned about.

Does my colleague share the same concern?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I absolutely do. When a government puts a budget together, there are choices to be made. Sometimes these are difficult choices, but they have to be made. We are dealing with some rather significant public safety challenges, so perhaps now is not the time to be reducing public safety budgets, including the RCMP's, among others.

This takes more than legislation. It takes means. I know that my colleague opposite supported Bill S-2. The fact remains that there are no resources for creating women's shelters on reserves for victims of spousal abuse.

Having legislation is one thing, but at some point we need to have the necessary resources to ensure that the legislation produces positive, tangible results.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak in support of Bill S-16, an act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco).

I want to begin my comments by saying that I agree with my colleagues across the way. When it comes to contraband tobacco, there are a number of challenges that have to be addressed. Certainly there is the issue of young people or individuals who smoke, the demand for tobacco and an increased demand for contraband tobacco, and the whole aspect of crime prevention.

However, up to this point the challenge has been the legislative gap. Law enforcement has only been able to charge individuals who are involved in this kind of illegal activity under the Excise Act. As legislators, we have a responsibility to look at issues like this and address them in their totality. That is why this piece of legislation is important and vital. However, it is not the only piece to combat the problem of contraband tobacco.

We do not want to target individuals, such as a young person who has contraband tobacco on their person. That is not what we are talking about. As my colleague from the Liberal Party mentioned, we are talking about organized crime and very serious traffickers who are involved in all kinds of other illegal trafficking.

I will begin by talking about the technical parts of this bill and some of the changes that would occur. I also want to talk about what Public Safety and the RCMP are doing in terms of the new unit we committed to in 2011, which is being formed right now.

Bill S-16 is another part of our government's plan for safe streets and communities. It focuses on tackling crime and putting victims' rights ahead of criminals. We are setting the conditions for fair and efficient justice.

The bill proposes to amend the Criminal Code to create a new offence of trafficking in contraband tobacco. This new offence would carry penalties that would better reflect the harm caused by the trade in contraband tobacco. Specifically, the bill would impose mandatory minimum penalties of imprisonment for persons who are convicted of this offence for a second or subsequent time. It would not be for the very first criminal offence, and it certainly would not be an offence charged under the Excise Act. A second offence would be under Criminal Code charges.

The proposed new offence against dealing in contraband tobacco would prohibit the sale, possession for the purpose of sale, offer for sale, as well as the transportation, delivery or distribution of a tobacco product or raw leaf tobacco that is not packaged unless it is stamped. The terms “tobacco product”, “raw leaf tobacco”, “package” and “stamps”, would have the same meaning as they have in section 2 of the Excise Act, 2001.

A first-time offender convicted under the new offence would face a maximum penalty of six months' imprisonment on summary conviction, and up to five years' imprisonment if prosecuted on indictment. Repeat offenders convicted of this new offence involving large amounts would face mandatory minimum penalties. In cases involving 10,000 cigarettes or more, or 10 kilograms or more of any other tobacco product or raw leaf tobacco, a second-time offender would face a mandatory minimum penalty of 90 days' imprisonment. A third-time offender would face a mandatory minimum penalty of 180 days, and a person convicted of a fourth offence or more would face a mandatory minimum penalty of two years less a day.

We believe this provides a very balanced approach. It is not an overly harsh approach, but one that certainly provides new legislation and tools that law enforcement need in order to combat contraband tobacco trafficking.

Bill S-16 would also amend the definition of Attorney General in the Criminal Code so as to give the Attorney General of Canada concurrent jurisdiction within the provinces to prosecute this new offence. Again, the Excise Act only applies federally. This would give provincial police the ability to lay these same types of charges under the Criminal Code.

I believe these proposals represent a tailored approach to the imposition of mandatory minimum penalties for serious contraband tobacco activities. The bill proposes minimum penalties only in cases where there is a specific aggravating factor, and that would be the quantity of tobacco product.

Contraband tobacco threatens the public safety of all Canadians, our communities and our economy. Many people think it is a victimless crime, that it is individuals wanting to buy cigarettes for less money. However, that could not be further from the truth.

There is a huge organized crime aspect to contraband tobacco, and it threatens all of us, certainly our children and our young people. It also has implications for relationships with our international partners, especially the United States. The trade in contraband tobacco fuels the growth of organized criminal networks and is attacking the health of our Canadian youth.

We only need to look at the closest schoolyard to see that impact. When we look at areas where schools have designated a smoking area, it is sad to say that there was a time when that was going down, but it is evident that more and more young people are starting to smoke. We even see smoking in the media and in Hollywood movies, even though smoking is taboo. Sadly it seems that more and more young people are smoking, and contraband tobacco only feeds that.

A study conducted in 2007, 2008 and 2009 on the proliferation of contraband tobacco at high schools in Ontario and Quebec reveals that nearly one-third of the cigarettes found at Ontario high schools and over 40% of those at Quebec high schools were contraband products. That speaks volumes about the problem that contraband is tobacco is causing and the impact it is having as far as young people beginning to smoke.

We also know that studies show if young people begin smoking at an early age, it is much harder for them to quit. It is much harder for them, even as adults who may want to stop smoking. It becomes very difficult. We can see by the evidence that contraband tobacco is certainly fueling the proliferation of our young people who are smoking.

Obviously a problem of this magnitude requires a comprehensive set of responses, as I said at the beginning of my speech. Bill S-16 contributes to this response by strengthening our criminal law framework's response to trafficking in contraband tobacco. Bill S-16 is only a part of the government's broader response to combat the trafficking and cross-border smuggling of contraband tobacco.

Another key element of our response is the establishment of a 50-officer RCMP anti-contraband tobacco force. This was the commitment we made in 2011 and we are following through on this commitment. This new force builds on the existing RCMP strategy, which focuses on reducing the availability of and demands for contraband tobacco, and again, the involvement of organized crime that plays such a big role in the contraband tobacco problem in Canada.

Another critical part of our broader, law enforcement response is the fact that the RCMP and Canada Customs have seized record quantities of contraband tobacco.

As I mentioned earlier, organized crime plays a central role in Canada's contraband tobacco trade, with the result that most of the organized crime groups across the country involved in illicit tobacco markets are also involved in a number of other forms of criminality. It is never just one contraband product that they are trafficking; they are usually involved as well in other banned illegal substances, guns, and the smuggling and trafficking of humans.

The problem is further complicated by the international aspect of the illicit tobacco trade. On this issue, it is important to recall that Canada and the United States share a long history of law enforcement co-operation. Recent and ongoing threat assessments have identified organized crime as the most prevalent threat encountered at our shared borders. As we work together with our partners and with our friends to the south of us, we recognize that the problems that we have at the borders, and indeed smuggling of guns, tobacco or whatever might be smuggled, is primarily done by organized criminals in Canada and the U.S.

This includes significant levels of contraband trafficking, as I said, ranging from illicit drugs and tobacco to firearms, primarily handguns. Handguns are the primary firearm that is being trafficked and used in organized crime activities. I mentioned human smuggling, which is sadly becoming a greater problem. Our government is certainly addressing human smuggling and even human trafficking.

Recognizing our mutual interest in the security of our shared waters on the coasts, the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway, Canada and the United States explored the concept of integrated cross-border maritime law enforcement operations. Commonly, this has been referred to as the shiprider agreement. It would permit marine law enforcement vessels to be jointly crewed by specially trained and designated Canadian and American law enforcement officers who are authorized to enforce the law on both sides of the international boundary line in the course of integrated cross-border operations.

Again, this represents a very practical and efficient solution to illegal activity at our borders, especially in our waterways. It would give law enforcement authorization in America but primarily in Canada. We are obviously looking to the Canadian side, where we would be able to work together with our partners to combat this problem, as well as other organized illegal activity that could happen at the border. Designated law enforcement officers from the RCMP and the United States Coast Guard, and other law enforcement agencies from Canada and the U.S., would now be able to conduct seamless policing operations to disrupt organized crime and criminal activity at the border.

Canada and the United States piloted a project between the RCMP and the U.S. Coast Guard that authorized integrated cross-border maritime law enforcement between these two organizations.

The shiprider pilot project had immeasurable impact upon cross-border criminal activity, including removing the border as an impediment to effective border policing. Again, this is a very practical and very efficient way of border policing. For example, during the 2007 pilot project, the RCMP and the U.S. Coast Guard officers participated in more than 187 boardings, which resulted in the seizure of 1,420,000 contraband cigarettes.That is a huge number of cigarettes that were intercepted and stopped because of the pilot project, which has been very effective.

A framework agreement to govern deployment of regularized shiprider operations was signed in May 2009, following the successful pilot project. Legislation seeking to implement the agreement was enacted in 2012.

Today, the contraband tobacco market is largely driven by illegal operations in both Canada and the U.S. Ontario and Quebec have the highest concentration of contraband tobacco manufacturing operations, the majority of the high-volume smuggling points, and the largest number of consumers of contraband tobacco. Certainly, members of Parliament from both Ontario and Quebec will be recognizing this as a problem in each of their provinces. However, we do recognize that it is a national problem to be addressed at the national level.

Locally, there is so much that can be done. We are working together with law enforcement in both provinces, the RCMP team as well as other integrated teams but, legislatively, we have to address it at the national level in order to be able to look at the areas where it is growing and address those problems.

The 2012 national threat assessment on organized and serious crime, prepared by Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, has identified 58 organized crime groups which are involved in the contraband tobacco network. We are not just talking about somebody going across to the United States, buying cheap cigarettes and bringing them back for their relatives or selling them to neighbours. We are talking about a very serious problem. If we do not deal with it as a criminal activity, it will continue to grow.

I know we appreciate the involvement of stakeholders that also recognize this problem. That is why we have introduced this legislation.

These criminal networks reinvest profits from the manufacture and distribution of contraband tobacco into other forms of criminality, including the trafficking of illicit drugs, firearms and human smuggling.

Furthermore, and again this is a key part of this issue, the RCMP reports that violence and intimidation tactics continue to be associated with the contraband tobacco trade. As any organized criminal activity will prove, there is an increase in violence, in the threat to public safety and other criminal activity associated with this.

The federal government launched the RCMP's contraband tobacco enforcement strategy in 2008. They worked together.The contraband tobacco enforcement strategy focuses on reducing the ability of, and demand for, contraband tobacco, and the involvement of organized crime.

In addition to the enforcement measures of this strategy, the task force on illicit tobacco products was formed to identify concrete measures to disrupt and reduce the trade in contraband tobacco. We worked together with our partners and other agencies throughout the country. This task force brought together a number of different facets and stakeholders, and law enforcement to look at how we reduce the demand for, stop the production of, and disrupt the illegal activity surrounding contraband tobacco.

Based on the recommendations of the task force, the Government of Canada announced in May 2010 an investment of $20 million for a series of measures to disrupt the supply of and demand for contraband tobacco. Again, I know the opposition talked about resources to do this. We are really taking a very strong, measured approach where we have the legislation that we need but we are also providing resources to tackle this problem. That is the way we have to look at it; we cannot just come at it from one angle but from a number of levels.

These measures are paying off. Since the inception of the contraband tobacco enforcement strategy in 2008 and up to May 2012, the RCMP has laid approximately 4,925 charges under the Excise Act, 2001, and disrupted approximately 66 organized crime groups involved in the contraband tobacco trade throughout Canada. Again, this is paying off.

There is still more work to be done, but we can see that the RCMP is able to target, intercept and stop this activity. What they need now is an ability to charge under the Criminal Code and to have mandatory minimum sentences for repeat offenders and those who are trading in large quantities of tobacco.

During that time period that I mentioned, approximately 3.5 million cartons or unmarked bags of cigarettes were seized nationally by the RCMP, along with numerous vehicles, vessels and property. Those numbers are staggering, when we think that that number of cigarettes is being sold illegally, getting into the hands of our children, sometimes tainted with who knows what, as my colleague has mentioned. There are so many problems surrounding contraband tobacco. We can just look at the numbers: 3.5 million cartons sized by the RCMP.

We are proud that the strategy is having an effect. Again, we believe that this bill will just add another layer of strength to the contraband tobacco enforcement strategy.

Taken together, these initiatives are having a measurable and positive impact on reducing the contraband tobacco market. It is clear that the illicit tobacco market is dominated by criminal organizations, motivated by the lure of significant profits and relatively low risk.

Enforcement actions are therefore directed at increasing the risks associated with contraband tobacco activities, dismantling illegal manufacturing facilities, disrupting the supply lines, apprehending key figures, confiscating conveyances such as trucks and boats, and seizing the proceeds of crime. Again, it is a whole strategy where, piece by piece, law enforcement can take apart the organized crime element of the contraband tobacco activity. These actions will achieve a disruption in the flow of illicit tobacco and weaken the organized crime groups involved in the production, distribution, smuggling and trafficking of contraband tobacco.

To achieve these goals, the RCMP has engaged in joint targeted initiatives with law enforcement partners and other stakeholders across Canada and even, as mentioned earlier, internationally. These initiatives range from short-term to long-term investigations, from simple to complex, and include varying awareness campaigns.

While we do recognize we have made gains, we also do realize that as legislators we need to do more. We need to make sure that Bill S-16 passes, that criminal activity is indeed targeted, and that there are mandatory minimum sentences associated with organized crime for individuals who are trafficking large quantities of contraband tobacco.

I move:

That this question be now put.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the parliamentary secretary for her speech.

The NDP and I recognize that cigarettes and contraband cigarettes are a scourge. We have seen some disturbing statistics on the rise in this type of trafficking.

However, the Excise Act, 2001, and the Criminal Code already cover all these offences. Bill S-16 seems to be redundant.

I would like to know why the government decided to introduce Bill S-16 instead of reviewing and enforcing the comprehensive laws that are in effect, such as the Excise Act, 2001, and the Criminal Code. What is the motivation behind Bill S-16?

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, currently under the Excise Act, there are limitations whereby charges can be laid and penalties can be imposed. When Bill S-16 passes, for example, even if there were 10 Excise Act convictions in an accused person's past, if there were no prior Criminal Code convictions, a mandatory minimum penalty could not be sought.

That is why this law is important. If somebody is trafficking or in possession of not just small amounts, but large quantities of tobacco, as I laid out in my speech, and it is clear that they are trafficking large quantities, under the new law a new provision would be within the Criminal Code that would allow for further penalty.

I want to let my hon. colleague know about the other thing it would do. The Excise Act right now is a federal act, so it could be implemented federally, but the provinces are limited and provincial law enforcement has limitations. When we have this specific and very tailored offence and we make sure that it is not an overly draconian penalty, it gives provincial law enforcement officials an extra tool. They can still charge under the Excise Act if they see it is fitting, but they would now have the Criminal Code as well.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think all of us in the House have had contact with people, whether family, friends or co-workers, who have struggled with or are struggling with an addiction to tobacco. I think all of us want to do what we can to minimize the possibility of that addiction.

It is obvious from the research that many times the people who are addicted, some of whom have overcome it and some of whom have not, have been caught very early in life. I felt that one statistic that my colleague shared was very important, and I would just like her to repeat the percentage of cigarettes that are found on high school grounds. A very high percentage of the butts there are from contraband tobacco.

I wonder if she could just repeat that statistic, because I think it indicates the seriousness of the situation and the importance of our taking action on this matter.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague makes a very valid point. I know this from my own family experience. I actually lost a sister to lung cancer. She smoked for 35 years and she started as a young teenager. Sadly, the majority of people who are addicted to cigarettes today and want so badly to quit started as very young teenagers. They probably thought they would just try it our and never really continue, but as we know, it is an incredibly addictive substance.

The statistic that my colleague was referring to was a study that was done in Ontario and Quebec. In Ontario a full third and in Quebec 40% of all cigarette products used in high schools were contraband tobacco. Again, we are not talking about adults; we are talking about people in high school.

This is not just an issue of young people buying cheap cigarettes or, as I said, family members buying other family members cheap cigarettes when they go across the border or getting them within Canada. This is a much larger problem.

The other issue, which is something we are finding out more about, is that because these cigarettes are produced illegally, we do not even know what is in them. We already know just how poisonous and harmful basic cigarettes are when they are produced legally; illegally produced tobacco products are laced with all kinds of additional dangerous things that we have absolutely no way of controlling.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on the member's speech and pick up on a line of questioning I put to my colleague from Montreal earlier. This is an important bill because it would deal with a very serious problem. In my community, I have been lobbied, as I have said before, by retailers, the local RCMP detachment and community policing, but, from our perspective, it is important to remember that this has to be in concert with other activities.

I would like to ask the member if she could explain to the House a few things. How does the government contemplate messaging out to Canadians? We have seen very serious cuts in anti-smoking and smoking cessation campaigns and publicity in Canada since the arrival of the government. We have seen cuts in support for a number of community activities to engage our kids when it really counts, between the ages of 8 and 12, before they start to smoke or perhaps make even worse choices.

How does the government foresee going forward on dealing with a contraband issue, which is serious? How is it going to message out and increase the understanding and information in Canadian society so folks do not begin to smoke in the first place and do not participate in the purchase of contraband materials?

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, although I appreciate the question, there are a number of facts that the member has wrong.

Let me begin with the basics. Our government has increased and sustained the transfers to the provinces. The provinces are primarily responsible for health care, as well as education. When we talk about young people being educated at the local level, we are the government that did not cut transfers to the provinces but increased them.

On another level, our government introduced new warning labels on packages of cigarettes and little cigars, which contain a quit line phone number and a website for people who want help to quit smoking. It was also our government that banned flavoured little cigars, which were clearly targeting young people.

Again, this is a multilevel approach and strategy that we have endeavoured to take. Our government has provided $20 million for the contraband tobacco strategy and increased funding to the provinces so they can do their work in terms of health care and education. Legislatively we are providing this bill, as well as other measures, to combat contraband tobacco, as well as a 50-member RCMP task force.

Today, we are talking about the issue of smoking, but this bill definitely targets contraband tobacco and organized crime activity. As much as I appreciate the member's questions, our federal government has taken the strongest leadership position in legislation, funding and real measures that help people know the dangers of smoking.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the parliamentary secretary for her speech. We agree that contraband tobacco is a scourge that must be addressed. The parliamentary secretary mentioned certain issues related to public safety and the health of young people.

I would like to raise the following point. The National Assembly of Quebec conducted a study and in its February 2012 report recommended that the Government of Quebec create a joint commission involving five parties, namely the governments of Quebec, Ontario, Canada and the United States as well as the Mohawk nation, to fight contraband tobacco. The report also called for an action plan that would deal with, among other things, a win-win agreement between the government and aboriginal governments to stop the large-scale tax-exempt sale of tobacco to non-aboriginal people. I would like to know whether the government is consulting with first nations, among others, and with aboriginal people, to tackle this problem.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, when we established the task force for combatting contraband tobacco, we engaged all sectors such as aboriginal communities, law enforcement and convenience store owners. I met with a number of them just the other day. On first nations reserves, contraband tobacco is a problem, the organized criminal activity aspect of it, as well as what I just mentioned, the health part with regard to addiction to cigarettes.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by saying that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for LaSalle—Émard.

Unfortunately, time is short. I will not make use of the privilege of making a 20-minute speech. That way, any of my colleagues who so desire will have the opportunity to talk about this bill by expressing their concerns about or their support for the positive aspects of Bill S-16.

The use of time allocation motions has been a real tragedy in our democracy during the 41st Parliament. This bill addresses a very important issue that affects society in many ways. It is a public health, tax collection and major crime issue. It is truly appalling that the government is so foolishly restricting our attempts to put forward constructive proposals in order to stimulate debate and potentially improve this bill, if needed.

This debate is all the more necessary because Bill S-16 is designed to amend sections of the Criminal Code, which is not a bad thing in and of itself. Quite the opposite, actually.

This bill comes to us from the Senate, not from the Minister of Justice, which would have been logical and certainly preferable. The government's approach is very questionable and does not help us in our work. It raises questions about the government's motivation and about what it is hoping to achieve by introducing this bill.

I am not denying that it is good to be able to use this bill to discuss this issue. However, is Bill S-16 the best way to fight contraband tobacco? Unfortunately, this bill raises more questions than it answers.

Just a few weeks ago, we celebrated the two-year anniversary of my short career here in the House. During my time here, I have had the privilege of being the critic for small business and tourism, for one.

There is no denying that contraband tobacco, in addition to being a criminal activity and a real threat to our society, is a very serious problem that threatens the profitability of many small businesses.

Often, these businesses are owned by just one person who has a similar status to an employee. These business owners, who may have one to three employees, are just trying to earn an honest living.

These small business owners shoulder almost all of the responsibility for the business and they often do not make very much money, particularly in the first few years after they start or acquire the business. Absolutely anything that reduces their profit margin poses a very serious threat to their business. It can make the difference between earning an honest living or the business failing or going bankrupt. We hope that many of those businesses avoid bankruptcy, but there are motivated entrepreneurs who are prepared to enter the business world whose businesses fail and disappear. That is just how it works.

All small convenience-store-type businesses make a lot of money from tobacco sales. They can make a bigger profit from tobacco than they can from many other products. A significant drop in the sale of tobacco products seriously cuts into the profits of these types of businesses.

I think that we can quite easily reach a consensus with the government on this issue. In fact, we are in favour of any measures that support small businesses, as long as the government gives us the opportunity to present our arguments and suggest improvements that will allow us to address the challenges associated with the fight against contraband tobacco.

I would like to focus on a very questionable aspect of this bill. I had the great privilege of being a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights for a time and helping the committee examine bills, particularly private members' bills that amended provisions of the Criminal Code. Unfortunately, these private members' bills too often failed to meet their objectives. As part of the study of these bills, we often heard witnesses strongly declare that the proposed measures, despite their good intentions, would not help the situation and could even make it worse.

The aspect of the bill that I seriously question is the mandatory minimum sentencing for various types of offences. I hope that this will be examined in more detail by the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

I would like to talk about the testimony of former Supreme Court justice John C. Major, who appeared before the committee. As a very experienced and learned legal expert and a former member of the Supreme Court, Justice Major was in a position to correctly assess the pertinence, usefulness and effects of mandatory minimum sentences. I do not wish to repeat everything he said, but he did conclude that there was no conclusive evidence that mandatory minimum sentences are a deterrent and of any real use.

In fact, Justice Major, and other witnesses as well, said that, in the complex and subtle mechanism of court proceedings, the fact that there are mandatory minimum sentences could even be an incentive for the parties in question. In fact, the prosecutors and the defence attorneys could come to an agreement to avoid this type of measure with the judge's agreement, simply because it would not allow for any room to manoeuvre in a criminal case.

It does go quite far. In the end, it would be detrimental to the work done in the justice system to enforce the Criminal Code. This will become apparent in the coming years, if we are not already seeing it in certain cases. This very serious consequence deserves to be studied in depth. In my opinion, it is the most debatable aspect of this bill.

I urge government members to seriously consider, question, or at least take the time to assess the adverse effects of mandatory minimum sentences. If we should continue down this road, we will at least understand how this can usefully be applied to fighting crime related to the illegal trafficking of tobacco.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. He touched on some very interesting points that are important to me as well.

He spoke about mandatory minimum sentences and the impact they have, and he also spoke about the impact that contraband tobacco has on small and medium-sized businesses. We are actually talking about small and very small businesses. I am sure he has those in his riding.

Could he speak more about those two points he raised in his speech?

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from LaSalle—Émard for her question.

Starting up a business is always a challenge. However, competition is very tough for small businesses in this type of traditional sector. There are also a large number of factors that can cut into profitability. My colleague from Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup can attest to that. He is currently working on the issue of fees associated with credit card reward programs.

The huge fees prevent these small businesses from predicting costs and profits. Their sales figures can be undermined by lower revenues from the sale of tobacco products, which still has a good profit margin. There are two very different types of risks here, which makes things extremely complicated for small business owners.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government boasts about wanting to combat organized crime involved in contraband cigarettes. It may want to pass a law to punish people who are caught smuggling cigarettes, but in general, the leaders of organized crime groups do not get their hands dirty. We would have liked to know what this government, which boasts about being tough on crime, will do about the Mafia leaders who are currently praying in church for this government to be re-elected, since the government is making their lives so much easier by making cuts to the budgets of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Canada's correctional services.

I would like to know how this bill will protect us from these major criminals, the people who lead organized crime groups. What would be appropriate measures and budgets to go after these people who have created a state within a state?

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Marc-Aurèle-Fortin for his heartfelt speech, which echoes the words of our colleague from Compton—Stanstead. This member spoke about the border services' lack of resources to combat contraband tobacco.

To answer my colleague, quite frankly, I really do not see how this bill would enable us to touch those famous Mafia bosses.

The other thing that bothers me is that the government is vastly undermining our capabilities. For example, I spend a lot of time on the road travelling to the Hill. The trip takes me 4 hours and 30 minutes. The best way to combat speeding on our roads is not to enact tougher laws, but rather to station patrol cars on the side of the road. This is when everyone starts hitting the brakes.

In short, it is obvious that the problems are not primarily related to legislation. Legislation can result in significant progress in regard to the bosses and large-scale organized crime. However, the much bigger problem lies with the resources allocated to carry out investigations in order to enforce the law as it is.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, cigarettes are a scourge. There is no doubt about that. They are a health hazard and lead to serious addiction.

Over the years, measures have been taken to control tobacco as much as possible and to dissuade people from taking up smoking. As some of my colleagues mentioned, very young people will start smoking despite all of the warnings, and they will often be far more affected by their dependence on cigarettes.

The NDP also recognizes that contraband cigarettes—the illegal sale of cigarettes—is also a scourge because they are often sold for less and can encourage new smokers and young smokers. Contraband cigarettes help perpetuate the negative impact of smoking.

I have the honour and privilege of representing the riding of LaSalle—Émard, which is on the Island of Montreal, in Quebec. There are a large number of convenience store owners in my riding. I had the opportunity to meet with the convenience store association, whose members are feeling the economic impact of contraband cigarettes. That is what is so paradoxical about this product, which is such a health hazard. The government is making money off it and trying to control it at the same time. Convenience store owners are feeling the economic impact of contraband cigarettes. Quebec and Ontario are often affected.

Documents provided by the Library of Parliament indicate that, under current laws, namely the Excise Act, 2001 and the Criminal Code, cigarette seizures by the RCMP have been increasing over time. There has been a tremendous increase. The number of seizures was quite low between 2001 and 2004, and then it suddenly skyrocketed.

The legislative summary suggests that law enforcement priorities may have played a role as well. Trafficking in contraband cigarettes has increased significantly and not just Canadian cigarettes, but imported cigarettes as well. Under the current regime, the RCMP can already make major seizures. We can see that in the statistics in the chart, which is very clear and quite graphic. Dealing with this scourge was a priority.

We must debate Bill S-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco), which is also called the Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act. This bill originated in the Senate and seeks to create a special provision on contraband tobacco. Again, I am not denying the fact that this is a scourge and that we must deal with it here in the House. However, I want to talk about the laws currently in effect to deal with this problem. Under the current legislative regime, RCMP seizures have gone up.

We saw that tackling contraband cigarettes may have been made a priority. That is why I am puzzled. I am not saying that I do not support Bill S-16, but I am wondering about the measures already in place that seem to be doing the job.

As I mentioned, the Excise Act, 2001, is in effect and we also have the Criminal Code.

Charges under the Criminal Code may include, but are not limited to: fraud, conspiracy, conspiracy to commit offences, participation in activities of criminal organization, and possession of property obtained by crime.

Under the Excise Act, 2001, the offences are:

...selling, offering for sale, purchasing or possessing unpackaged or non-stamped raw leaf tobacco (section 30) and the possession, sale or offering for sale of tobacco products that are not stamped (section 32), both of which are “hybrid offences”.

The Excise Act, 2001, already provides specifics that truly tackle the illegal sale of tobacco.

We are still talking about the enforcement and impact of Bill S-16. The legislative summary goes on to say:

Criminal enforcement under the Excise Act, 2001 may be carried out by “any police force in Canada” that is designated according to certain conditions. It appears that the RCMP is the force designated as such. In comparison, all police forces may enforce Criminal Code provisions.

This covers quite a bit in terms of the enforcement and impact of existing legislation.

The parliamentary secretary also talked about something mentioned in the legislative summary:

The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs submitted observations with its report on the bill, suggesting that the government consider providing provincial police with enforcement powers under the Excise Act, 2001, as well as under the Customs Act.

Once again, this is about problems related to enforcing the law.

I would like to share an interesting example. It is important to understand that a number of stakeholders are involved in enforcing this law. However, a number of stakeholders also find themselves on the other side of the law, that is, breaking the law.

Coming back to the legislative summary, it states:

For example, in the Cornwall area, there are various efforts such as joint investigative units and a task force to encourage collaboration between various enforcement organizations such as the RCMP, the Canada Border Services Agency, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Cornwall Community Police Service and the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service.

In my opinion, that is a good example of co-operation between all stakeholders in order to enforce various laws that fight contraband.

In conclusion, I would like to point out that the NDP takes the problem of tobacco contraband in Canada seriously. I mentioned this in my introduction and I am saying it again now.

Tobacco contraband is a problem that affects health and public safety, tax revenues and the profitability of small businesses, as I already pointed out. For that reason, the NDP has asked the federal government to take action on this issue and to co-operate with the communities affected the most. That is very important.

The government must provide the necessary resources to the Canada Border Services Agency and the RCMP in order to properly deal with the problem because it is also an international issue.

Unfortunately, as we saw in the most recent budget, the government did not. The cuts will hinder the fight against counterfeiting and contraband.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to my colleague's speech. I would really like to thank her for the wonderful work she does leading us in industry committee and as our NDP industry critic.

We on the west coast have some real concerns about counterfeiting, mainly because the port of Vancouver is the top entryway for contraband cigarettes in Canada and we have just eliminated the Coast Guard station there. Now we have no Coast Guard presence at all monitoring these ships that are coming in.

We are supporting sending the bill to committee to look at this issue. I would like to ask my colleague how, in light of these facts, we might expand our investigation here to include issues like Coast Guard presence on the west coast.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, who does an excellent job as our science and technology critic. He raised a very important point about good intentions. Having good intentions is commendable.

However, we have questions about how the bill will be enforced. My colleague raised the point that contraband cigarettes are no longer a local issue, but that they have become national and international issues. How can we successfully tackle contraband?

I want to point out that it will be the same thing with Bill C-56, which deals with counterfeit goods, if we do not come up with measures to back up our plans.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for her speech. She began by calling tobacco use a real scourge. I have been a smoker for a very long time, many years in fact, and I regret ever starting. Right now, I have not had a cigarette in 10 days, and I hope to successfully quit.

I studied the bill and did not see any measures to address the issue of demand. When we talk about contraband, it is a question of supply and demand. If people continue to demand these products, others will produce them.

I would like to know if my colleague thinks the bill includes any specific measures to stop people from smoking or at least to ensure that there is no demand for contraband products. Does the bill contain any measures of a more social nature related to health, or is it a strictly justice-related or technical bill?

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for the question.

She raised the issue of prevention. I agree that one of the problems is indeed supply and demand. She also mentioned the health aspect. As another member mentioned earlier, the federal government cut funding for anti-smoking programs.

This bill is more about simply amending the Criminal Code. However, we need to take a holistic approach in order to determine who is involved in this market on both ends—both the buying and selling. That is a very good point, and it also relates to our economy.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am sharing my time with the very hard-working member for Wetaskiwin.

I am pleased to say a few words about Bill S-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco)

This bill contains a number of very important amendments to the Criminal Code aimed directly at the criminals who are flooding Canada with illicit tobacco products that undermine the Canadian economy, fuel addiction, and add to the already serious long-term health issues associated with smoking.

As we have heard, this is not the first time that Canada has faced the challenge of contraband tobacco. When the problem first arose some two decades ago, it had to do with our own legally manufactured and exported tobacco products being smuggled back into our domestic market at greatly reduced prices. Through a combination of tax policy and enforcement measures, we were able to stem the tide of this early onslaught of contraband tobacco.

Since then, the primary legislative vehicle for controlling this illegal trade has been the Excise Act. This legislation combines fines, jail terms and forfeitures to enforce the prohibition against selling tobacco products that have not been stamped. Stamping indicates that the excise tax has been paid. Unfortunately, despite this legislation and despite the efforts of dedicated law enforcement officials, contraband tobacco remains a serious threat to the public safety of Canadians, their communities and the Canadian economy.

Although there are several sources for the contraband tobacco products that are entering Canada, the illicit trade is driven largely by illegal operations run by criminal organizations in both Canada and the United States. In this regard, the provinces of Ontario and Quebec have the highest concentration of illegal manufacturing operations, the majority of the high-volume smuggling points and the largest number of consumers of contraband tobacco.

In response, the government launched the RCMP contraband tobacco enforcement strategy in 2008 with a focus on reducing the availability and demand for contraband tobacco and on weakening the involvement of organized crime in this illegal industry. At the same time, the task force on illicit tobacco products was formed to identify concrete measures to disrupt or reduce the trade in contraband tobacco. The next year, the task force presented a lengthy report to the Minister of Public Safety in which it noted that at least 30% of Canadian tobacco purchases involved contraband tobacco.

One of the primary drivers of this illicit trade, aside from the willingness of consumers to pay markedly reduced prices, has been the shift from single individuals or small groups conducting sporadic smuggling to organized crime groups doing the smuggling and distributing the illicit tobacco through their criminal networks.

Clearly, the time has come to take steps to come to grips with the growing nature of this illegal activity and the growing involvement of criminal organizations whose related activities include the smuggling of other items into Canada using the same networks, which is particularly alarming.

This is the context in which we must evaluate Bill S-16.

Briefly, the bill is one part of a two-part response to the issue I have described. The first part is the bill itself. It proposes to amend the Criminal Code to create a new hybrid offence of trafficking in contraband tobacco, with mandatory minimum penalties for repeat offenders. The second part of the response is the implementation of a strengthened anti-contraband enforcement strategy that includes the establishment of an anti-contraband force made up of 50 RCMP officers. Both of these proposals respond to the 2011 election platform commitments of this government.

I will go into a bit more detail on exactly what is contained in Bill S-16.

First, the bill would create a new offence in the Criminal Code to deal with contraband tobacco trafficking. Indeed, the bill would prohibit the possession for the purpose of sale, offer for sale, or the transportation, delivery or distribution of a tobacco product, or raw leaf tobacco that is not packaged unless it is stamped. The terms “tobacco product”, “raw leaf tobacco”, “package” and “stamped” have the same meaning as in section 2 of the Excise Act, 2001. This would ensure consistency in our national enforcement efforts.

Pursuant to these proposed amendments, the maximum penalty for a first offence would be up to six months' imprisonment on a summary conviction and up to five years' imprisonment if prosecuted on an indictment.

Repeat offenders, convicted of this new offence in cases involving 10,000 cigarettes or more, 10 kilograms or more of any other tobacco product or 10 kilograms or more of any raw leaf tobacco would be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 90 days on a second conviction, a mandatory minimum of 180 days on a third conviction and a mandatory minimum of 2 years less a day on subsequent convictions.

The amendments proposed in the, appropriately titled, tackling contraband tobacco act would not only respond to our domestic problems but would equally respond to the broader international efforts to combat trafficking in tobacco. Let us recall in this context that tobacco smuggling by definition means the illegal movement of goods over national frontiers. Tobacco smuggling is a particularly widespread illegal activity and has an impact on a great number of countries. Thus, Canada is not alone in wanting to put an end to this illicit commerce.

In any attempt to combat organized crime's involvement in tobacco smuggling, one must recognize that organized crime adopts all forms of corruption to infiltrate political, economic and social levels all over the world. This issue has been addressed at both global and regional levels and continues to receive substantial domestic and international attention.

The international community has adopted many international instruments dealing with criminal law. These international agreements attest to a country's recognition of the need for international co-operation to tackle international crime. One aspect of international co-operation that is repeatedly found in these instruments deals with mutual legal assistance. This form of international co-operation is one of the most powerful tools employed by governments to reduce the incidence of international crime.

Therefore, not only does tobacco smuggling necessarily contain an international dimension, one that sometimes involves several countries and the crossing of several borders; it also involves, as our own law enforcement representatives have informed us, significant organized crime group participation. Bill S-16 would not exist in isolation. While this new legislation would help Canada combat tobacco smuggling, it would also help us combat tobacco smuggling and organized crime outside our own borders, not just in Canada alone.

In closing, I thank hon. members for their attention and urge them to consider the broad context in which Bill S-16 must be assessed. Once they have done that, I am convinced they will agree with me that this bill ought to be passed and implemented without delay.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in the context of contraband tobacco, forgive me, but every time someone mentions organized crime I tend to think of the tobacco industry as organized crime, having lost my grandfather to lung cancer at a time when cigarette companies advertised tobacco as safe and recommended by doctors despite the U.S. surgeon general's warning.

However, in this case, we know we are fighting contraband tobacco, and the bill would be helpful. However, I am concerned about some aspects of it, and I wonder whether the hon. member thinks there will be room for amendments in committee.