Mr. Speaker, there are a number of problems with the NDP motion.
First, it does not respect the Supreme Court. Second, it does not respect the provinces. Third, the NDP is helping the government, which would rather talk about the issue of the Senate than the $90,000. What is worse, this motion would eliminate the role of the federal government in its entirety. This motion is absolutely ridiculous.
When my Liberal colleagues and I saw today's motion from the NDP, we were taken by surprise. We had assumed that its caucus and, in particular, its Treasury Board critic, would understand the effects that the proposal would have on the government. In short, it would lead to the total shutdown of the Canadian government by the end of this fiscal year. We could not imagine that was the intent of the New Democrats. However, I was reminded that one should never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance. It is our conclusion in this corner of the House that the NDP may very well be completely unaware of how the federal government works.
It is clear what the NDP is trying to do: push forward its agenda for the federal government to unilaterally abolish the Senate. Liberals cannot agree with that short-sighted and, frankly, unconstitutional plan. We are also deeply troubled by the means to which the NDP is willing to go to further this agenda, including shutting down the entire Canadian government, and many provincial governments, too, I might add.
First, let me address the underlying point on Senate reform. Despite what people hear from Conservatives and New Democrats, Liberals are not opposed to Senate reform. We are not pushing for the status quo. What we are opposed to are unconstitutional declarations from high atop the Hill in Ottawa demanding changes to the Senate. Let us be perfectly clear. That is what New Democrats are proposing. For all of their talk about consultations with the provinces, they have decided what the outcome of those discussions will be. That is not consultation. Provinces deserve to have a real voice in this matter.
Before we enter any sort of discussion on Senate reform, Canadians, as well as our provincial and federal governments, need to know the terms under which the discussion will take place. This issue is now before the Supreme Court of Canada. That is the responsible way to handle this matter. In fact, Liberals have been asking the government to do this for years and the government has delayed forever. However, the Conservatives only wanted the appearance of action. Privately they know that changes to the Senate will require complex and messy negotiations with the provinces. The New Democrats are following right behind the Conservatives. They do not care about hearing from the court because they know deep down that their policy is unworkable.
My colleague, the member for Saint-Laurent—Cartierville and the Liberal democratic reform critic, has done a lot of work on this file, and I have spoken to him a great deal about the matter of Senate reform. Let me quote the member at some length regarding the complexities of Senate reform.
Many Canadians would like their Senators elected rather than appointed. That’s understandable: it would be more democratic. But what would happen if, as proposed by the [Prime Minister's] government, we changed the way Senate seats are filled without amending our Constitution accordingly? If we went along with the Conservative Senate reform proposal, we would have: no dispute settlement mechanism between the elected Senate and the House; continued underrepresentation of Alberta and British Columbia, with only six Senators each (when New Brunswick holds ten); US-style (and now, Italian-style) gridlock between two elected chambers; and bitter constitutional disputes regarding the number of senatorial seats to which each province is entitled.
So, first thing first: will the provinces be able to reach an agreement on the distribution of Senatorial seats? If they do, we can then figure out which Constitutional powers we should attribute to the Senate in order to create healthy complementarities with the House—rather than paralyzing duplication. After which we can agree on a process to elect Senators and finally, amend the Constitution accordingly.
Should the provinces fail to agree about the number of Senators to which each one is entitled, we must avoid the kind of constitutional chaos that an elected Senate would cause. Instead [of risking that kind of chaos], let us keep the Prime Minister accountable for the quality of the individuals he appoints to the Upper House. And let the Senate continue playing the role conferred by the Fathers of Confederation: the Chamber of scrutiny, or “sober second thought”.
That was a long quote, but I think it contains a reasonable proposal for Senate reform.
This motion is certainly not that.
These are not simple questions. The Senate is the body of regional representation for the provinces. Provincial governments would not sit idly by while the New Democratic caucus decides for them what should happen to the Senate, and let us be perfectly honest about this point: consultations on how to abolish the Senate are not consultations on Senate reform.
I now turn my attention to the quite incredible motion now before the House. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, I do not attribute any malice to the actions of the NDP; rather, I believe the motion stems from a lack of understanding as to how the Government of Canada spends money.
The motion is poorly constructed. It is simply not clear what the member is calling for. Does he simply want the annual appropriations of the Senate zeroed out, as his colleague from Winnipeg Centre has proposed for tonight's supply votes, or is the NDP also calling for the amendments to the Parliament of Canada Act that are required if we are to remove senators' salaries?
I will give my colleague the benefit of the doubt, as I hope it was not the intent of New Democrats to leave senators with no work, but a full salary.
However, it is clear that their intent is to shut the Senate down without making the necessary amendments to the Canadian Constitution. It is as if they think they have found a way around our founding laws and can perform an end run around the Supreme Court and the provinces.
The motion does not abolish the Senate, it renders it inoperative. It does not matter how much they dislike the Senate; it is a needed part of our government under the Constitution.
We should consider the effects that this proposal would have on our government. The Senate would still exist. In fact, there is a good chance senators would still get paid. However, some changes would be noticed on July 1, the day on which the money would be cut off. The hallway and offices down the hall would go dark. Senate security guards and staff in the other place would be laid off. This would be most unfortunate for our House colleagues who have offices in the east block.
We would not notice any serious changes until the fall, when Parliament would return from the summer recess. It is then that the legislative backup would begin.
Section 55 of the Constitution Act—meaning it cannot be changed by this Parliament alone—states:
Where a Bill passed by the Houses of the Parliament is presented to the Governor General for the Queen’s Assent...
et cetera, et cetera.
The Constitution says the bill has to be passed by both Houses of Parliament. If the NDP gets rid of the Senate, we could not pass any legislation, and that includes money bills, supply bills. In layman's terms, we need the consent of both Houses of Parliament to enact legislation. There is no way around it except through a constitutional amendment.
As opposition MPs, neither Liberals nor New Democrats may have that big of a problem with the government's not being able to get its ideological agenda through. However, private members' business would also grind to a halt and supply bills would cease to pass.
This would be a good opportunity to explain to my NDP colleagues exactly how the Government of Canada spends money, as they do not seem to understand the process very well.
Any expenditure must be authorized by a law passed by both Houses of Parliament. The only exception is during a general election, and only during a general election, when the government may use a Governor General's special warrant. This is the only exception.
The authorizations for spending, known as an appropriation, come one of two ways: either there is an existing statute that provides an ongoing authorization to spend funds or the appropriation comes from the annual supply bills that we pass.
My colleagues may be more familiar with the supply bills processes, as those bills are supported by the estimates that we review periodically in this House and in committee. In fact, we are dealing with two supply bills this evening.
It is important to consider what spending has to be authorized each and every year by Parliament, as I do not think the NDP has given any thought to this aspect.
Voted spending, meaning the appropriations we have to approve every year, fund the operations of the government. Funding for civil service salaries, power and heating bills and printer paper all need to be authorized every year. None of this could be authorized with a de-funded Senate.
This brings me back to April 1, 2014, the date the NDP want the Government of Canada to shut down completely. That is the beginning of the next fiscal year. All the funding we have approved this year expires on March 31. It does not matter if government departments scrimp and save in anticipation of the shutdown; the appropriations simply expire.
This would be somewhat similar to the situation when Newt Gingrich forced the U.S. government to shut down in 1995 and 1996. However, it turns out the U.S. is prepared for such an eventuality. The Antideficiency Act allows for some government employees to remain paid and employed so that certain entitlement programs, such as social security and public safety operations, continue during a government shutdown.
Canada has no such contingency.
Under the NDP plan, April 1, 2014, would be a dark day in Canadian history. The Canadian Armed Forces would shut down. The RCMP would cease to be paid. The Correctional Service of Canada would shutter. Canadians would be worried about these events, but if they turned to the CBC for information on what was going on, they would be sorely disappointed, because the CBC relies heavily on annual appropriations. Canadians could call the government to register their concerns, but government phone lines would also go unanswered. The phones would ring, but no one would be there to answer them.
Automatic processes would continue for a little while. According to Hydro Ottawa, we would have about 40 days to pay the bill before the power would be cut off. Without the ability to pay rent, many departments would be evicted from their office buildings across the country.
Almost certainly, other countries would want to offer assistance to the suddenly governmentless Canadians; however, all of our embassies abroad would be closed. Here in Ottawa, the Department of Foreign Affairs would be dark.
Canadians are a resilient group of people. We would adapt. I am sure many Canadians would enjoy the now unfettered access to cross-border shopping. Let us remember that CBSA would not be functional anymore.
Luckily, many services Canadians rely on, such as health and education, are delivered by our provincial governments. However, almost every province depends on the CRA to collect their income taxes. Provinces that have HST rely on the CRA to collect that as well. Provincial governments also rely on billions in transfer payments from the federal government for health care, education, housing and other social services. These payments would stop because there would be no staff to administer them. Provincial governments would be left scrambling to find enough funding to deliver the services Canadians rely on from them. They would have no choice but to run massive deficits.
Did the New Democrats consult with the premiers about this? How would the NDP premiers of Nova Scotia and Manitoba feel about their federal party's plan? Let us remember that Canadians would need that provincial health care, as the Canadian Food Inspection Agency would also be completely de-funded. There would be no more food inspections.
Canadians should also be rightly concerned about what would happen to their CPP, their EI and their OAS and GIS under this plan. The funding for those transfer payments are statutory in nature and do not need annual renewal, but there would be no one to administer those programs. There would be no civil service left. We simply do not know how long those programs would last; maybe it would be until their hydro was cut off. We do know that if anyone had a problem with these services, they would be out of luck.
These are the problems that Canadians would immediately face. There would be nothing for the granting councils or the Canada Council for the Arts. Government research in investment would cease to exist.
This is not a worst-case scenario; this would be the outcome of the NDP motion.
I was shocked yesterday to read in an interview with the New Democratic treasury board critic that he expected the Senate staff should simply volunteer their time to pass bills. It is as if none of the hard-working staff of the Senate has a family to feed.
It was always the contention of the NDP that it was the party of labour. How does it justify throwing 400 people out of work and then telling them that instead of finding new work, they need to show up and volunteer their time? Not only that, this army of 400 volunteers would have to spend their own money to print such things as the order paper and Hansard just to keep the place running.
We are left with three possible explanations for today's NDP motion, none of which are particularly comforting.
The first possibility is that this is nothing but a cynical political ploy.
The second, as I mentioned at the beginning of my remarks, is that maybe the NDP just does not understand how our government works.
The third explanation is the most concerning. It is that maybe we are witnessing the NDP's version of federalism. By reducing the Senate's appropriations to zero, the NDP would be dropping an atom bomb into the middle of federal-provincial relations. The provinces would be forced either to consent to the NDP's abolition plan or be faced with no tax money and no transfers on April 1.
I think I have said enough to demonstrate that this motion is entirely idiotic. Not only does it fail to respect the Supreme Court and the provinces, not only does it let the government off the hook in terms of the debate about the role of the PMO in the $90,000, but it is inane. It is idiotic. It is stupid. It is farcical. It would result in the complete shutdown of the federal government and many of the provincial governments.
It obviously shows the NDP is not fit to govern. The best advice I can give to sensible NDP members of Parliament is to vote against their own ridiculous motion.
