Mr. Speaker, I rise today to oppose the NDP's motion to de-fund the Senate.
Our government and our party have always been clear about our commitment to bring reform to the Senate chamber. We pledged to do this in 2011 and we have taken real action toward achieving this goal. While this process is long and we wait to hear from the Supreme Court regarding our reference, we are confident that our reforms have moved the ball forward.
We have proposed term limits because we believe that the legitimacy of the Senate suffers when its membership can be appointed for up to 45 years. We have also proposed a selection mechanism for Senate nominees, so that willing provinces and territories can give Canadians a say on who serves as their representative in the upper chamber. Taken together, these modest reforms represent a positive development in building a modern, representative democracy that has faith in its institutions.
Our government has long believed that the Senate status quo is not acceptable and must change in order to reach its full potential, as an accountable and democratic institution. With that understood, I have two goals for my remarks today, and I will address each in turn.
First, I will defend our government's plan for Senate reform for what it is: a practical effort to make the Senate democratically legitimate. Second, I will address the opposition motion and refute it. Not because the members are from a different party, but because their short motion represents everything wrong with their Senate reform position. We have a duty to point out those problems for the record. I believe that our reforms are sound, pragmatic and achievable and that they would lead to a fundamentally more accountable and effective upper chamber.
I am honoured to share my thoughts with members today, so let us begin.
I have said our government has long been committed to Senate reform. The Senate must change and we intend to make it happen. By referring questions to the Supreme Court, we have signalled that it is time for action that concludes the commitment we made to Canadians during the last federal election. We look forward to the opinion of the Supreme Court on these questions, as they will give Canadians certainty about what is possible and how reform must be done.
The rules should be clear for all to see. Our government believes that Senate reform is needed now and we are committed to pushing a practical, reasonable approach to reform that we believe would help restore effectiveness and legitimacy in the upper chamber. If we have learned anything from the history of the 1980s or 1990s, we know Canadians do not want another long constitutional battle that flares tempers and detracts from the government's top priority, which is the economy.
Through the reforms that our government has tabled since we have been in government, we have demonstrated that we are willing to take concrete action to fulfill our commitments to Canadians. As we said, our reforms aim to accomplish two things.
First, we are in favour of a democratic Senate. We support establishing a framework for provinces and territories to establish democratic consultation processes to give Canadians a say in who represents them in the Senate.
Second, we support term limits for senators. We have consistently supported legislation to introduce term limits for new and recently appointed senators, which would ensure the Senate would be refreshed with new ideas on a regular basis.
With respect to the first change, we believe prime ministers should have to consider the names of anyone selected using democratic processes. This is a good idea worthy of support. Why? The process would be entirely optional and inherently co-operative. It would allow the provinces to opt in and tailor their rules to fit their provinces' circumstances and the desires of their people. Alberta has been doing this since the 1980s, and our reforms would encourage other provinces to develop their own set of selection processes to give their citizens a greater voice in selecting their representatives.
Second, we have consistently said that we believe that the system is constitutional. Under section 44 of the Constitution Act, 1982, Parliament has the legislative authority to amend the Constitution in relation to the Senate. By allowing the provinces to choose a democratic process for senate nominations, we are being open and co-operative. Our plan gives different communities the freedom to find different solutions to their representation challenges.
The other major initiative of our position is the imposition of Senate term limits. When we first approached this problem, we saw that the status quo was clearly problematic. Terms in the upper chamber could span several decades, and there were few mechanisms for removing senators from office once they had been appointed.
Polls have consistently shown that over 70% of Canadians support limiting senators' terms, but this goes beyond the obvious accountability reasons for limiting term length. Allowing a greater turnover of senators actually makes for a more representative Senate, one that reflects national minorities and current regional opinions. When senators have to be replaced every nine years, there will not be a representative body that looks like Canada did 50 years ago. This reform would increase accountability and make for a more relevant and representative Senate. These are changes we can support.
We have always believed that like the change in Senate terms from life to age 65, limiting the terms of senators is an amendment Parliament can make itself.
We have indicated previously that the property requirements should be examined due to the way property is dealt with in our northern areas and as a look toward modernizing the Senate.
Ultimately, we believe that the Senate must be reformed or else must be abolished. The Prime Minister has said this many times. The minister has said this many times, and I will repeat it many times. The Senate needs to reform, or it should be abolished. It is very simple. That is why we have referred questions to the Supreme Court of Canada on abolition. It is because we need certainty, if we can get it, on how to go about abolishing the Senate if it cannot be reformed. However, we are optimistic on this side of the House that the Senate can and should be reformed. We think Canadians agree with us that the Senate should be reformed and that politicians can come together to agree on that too.
If it is not possible, if the Senate cannot be reformed, because senators will not co-operate or because politicians cannot work together to solve a national problem, then it needs to go. It would need to go, because the status quo is unacceptable. That is something we all agree on, but our party, our government, is the only one with an actual plan. We are the only ones who have put forward concrete steps to move toward a defined goal. The other parties just talk about ideas, but we have a plan.
The other parties just want to say the easy things. They say to just appoint better people. That is easy to say. They say to just make a better appointment process, but they do not suggest a better process. That is easy to say. They say to just get rid of it. That is easy to say and is very hard to do. The opposition is just taking the easy way out and saying what it thinks people want to hear.
This is what I think. I think Canadians want a government with a plan. I think Canadians want a government willing to deal with the hard questions and willing to work across the country to find a way to solve the problems of the Senate. It is very clear that the opposition parties will not do that and cannot do that. They just want to take the easy way out. Our approach is much better.
Our government is the only party to put forward a plan, and we have asked the Supreme Court to set out some of the rules to make sure that we can deliver on our promises to Canadians.
Let us look at what the NDP is offering Canadians. I think they will be disappointed.
The NDP proposes to de-fund the Senate rather than go through any hard work. I can only guess that it hopes that this path produces a de facto abolition of the upper chamber, since it would lack the funds to do anything. Senators and the Senate would still exist, of course, but they would be starved of money. The Senate would lack the ability to pay senators, fund their travel, or deal with expenses, which we have seen can be a bit of a mess.
The NDP motion would do more than that. The member for Pontiac, who introduced the motion, acknowledged that it would do more in an interview he did with iPolitics, just yesterday.
It would stop the funding for translators. It would stop the funding for research and committee support staff. It would stop the funding for administrative staff and perhaps even the security staff. Many people would be out of work, over 400 or so, and on Canada Day, no less.
Let us be clear. The member for Pontiac actually said that the Senate staff of public servants could “do some volunteer work”. I am not sure that those people would see it the same way. Perhaps the Senate support staff could ask Ontario public servants about the days under the member for Toronto Centre and their experiences when they were de-funded, when the member, now in the Liberal caucus, was running Ontario as an NDP premier.
The NDP motion is not a serious proposal. It is not a serious plan. It is simply a communications exercise. The New Democrats want stories about how they want to cut off the Senate but the other parties just stand in their way. However, their motion is not a serious plan.
When something is broken, the first thing one does is see if it can be fixed and maybe made better and stronger. The NDP wants to skip straight to the trash bin. That is where the NDP motion should have gone, because the NDP motion is not a serious plan, and because the members know it cannot work, and because it was done simply as a communications exercise, I would call it a gimmick. The NDP is pulling a gimmick today.
Do not get me wrong. I know that the member for Winnipeg Centre will want to object. The New Democrats are following the rules, yes. They say that they want to debate funding of the Senate, which they are doing right now. Yes, having a debate about how Parliament spends taxpayer dollars is important. It is probably the single most important thing we can do in the House. The reason they proposed this motion was as a communications gimmick. That is what I am saying, and I think it is clear to everyone paying attention.
For all the NDP's talk about democracy and accountability to Canadians and consulting with Canadians, it is just doing this to get more media attention. Regardless of the merits of the Senate, it is part of this institution and this Parliament and is part of the fabric of our constitution. Our institutions and our constitution deserve better than the NDP's attempt to score a few more media points.
If I recall correctly, just a few weeks ago, the NDP leader announced his grand plan to go across Canada to consult Canadians and convince them that the NDP's position is a plan. Is he done already? Is the NDP's nationwide consultation process finished after a couple of weeks? Has he forgotten about the Supreme Court of Canada and the reference it is considering this fall? Do the opinions of the Supreme Court, the provinces and Canadians across the country matter to the NDP? If its idea of a comprehensive consultation process is a press conference, then a gimmick motion in the House, I am not sure it cares about what anyone else thinks at all.
Again, the NDP is taking the easy way out and is ducking the hard work. To them, it is better to give up than to work together. That is what this motion says. It says that they are the NDP and they give up. This is the best they can come up with, and they are not even going to go through with their promise of a national consultation.
De-funding is not a plan. It is resignation and a declaration of failure. It is an admission that Canadians cannot be trusted if they are asked what they want to do with the Senate and that the provinces do not deserve to have a say in who represents their unique interests.
To take away the Senate, without significant other reforms, would seriously damage the representation of a large section of our country in our Parliament. If we abolish or de-fund the Senate without doing the hard work of consultation and negotiation, we lose this representation too. While according to polls, many Canadians might want the Senate abolished, just as many Canadians want the Senate reformed.
Our position is that the Senate should be reformed. If it cannot be reformed, then we should consider abolition. However, we should have enough respect for our institutions and our democracy to work toward the improvement of an institution in need of repair before turning to the proverbial wrecking ball.
We in this House owe it to Canadians to do better than what the NDP is asking for. I ask my colleagues to support our government's plan to move forward and become part of the solution.
In 2006, the Prime Minister sat before the Senate special committee on Senate reform to speak in favour of adopting Bill S-4, one of our government's first attempts at Senate reform. At the end of his presentation, he shared a short quote from a book he had recently reviewed. It said:
Probably on no other public question in Canada has there been such unanimity of opinion as on that of the necessity for Senate reform.
The book he quoted was entitled, The Unreformed Senate Of Canada, by Robert A. Mackay. It was written in 1926. I do not think I can make it any more clear how vital these reforms are. We need change in the Senate, but not the sort the NDP proposes.
The way forward is one that addresses the institution's shortcomings but strengthens it. That is what our government believes. That is what I believe. That is why I am proud to support our vision for Senate reform.
Our government believes that Senate reform is needed now, and we are committed to pursuing a practical, reasonable approach to reform. Improving our democratic institution is a significant responsibility. I am privileged to work alongside my hon. colleagues to meet this common objective. I encourage everyone to work towards achieving these reforms and giving Canadians a stronger voice in determining who represents them in the Senate.
Our plan is reasonable and achievable, and we are eagerly awaiting the opinion of the Supreme Court so we can move forward, confident in the legitimacy of our efforts.
