House of Commons Hansard #79 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was funding.

Topics

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, I represent a part of Canada, northwestern British Columbia, that has a great number of first nations communities. There are villages, from the coast, all the way to the interior, the north, and the middle of the province.

There are a number of concerns and constraints that we have been raising with the current government and the previous government for many years. Generations of first nations people have suffered under a more patronizing form of governance in which Ottawa says it knows best.

One of the conditions set out that the member believes has been met is that there is no unilateral control kept by the minister. My question is this. With regard to this joint council being meant to advise the minister, on two parts, the unilateral control concerns me. One is that the minister does all the appointing and firing of that council. It is not done in consultation with anybody. He just chooses who the advisors are. They may be first nations or they may not. It does not matter. The minister, in this act, under what he is voting for, does this.

The second piece about this council is that if we are going to take the advice from this council, none of it is binding. The council can say that these are what the improvements need to be for first nations education, and the minister sitting in Ottawa, with the way that the act is drawn up right now, can say absolutely not, and there is no consequence.

I hear the member's words and the sincerity around wanting to put more control and determination in first nations communities, wherein the solutions lie, not in Ottawa. Yet, when I read the bill, I struggle with reconciling my friend's words and what the government has written in the text and the law. It gives the minister unilateral power to decide what happens with first nations education. That is the fundamental crux of the argument.

I would like my friend to respond.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS

Mr. Speaker, in my earlier teaching career, when I began my education, I was actually a teacher and a school administrator in the member's riding. The background and the time that I spent there helped me develop my love and experience. Quite frankly, it was the core of my educational experience, particularly in teaching first nations students in that riding. I know that the member cares deeply about the community as well.

In terms of the appointment of this joint council, it would have nine members on it. Of these members, four would be appointed by the Assembly of First Nations and four would be appointed by the minister. The chair of the council would be jointly selected by the minister and the Assembly of First Nations. There would be great consultation with the aboriginal and first nations community on the membership of the council.

Later in my career, I also helped build a school that was, at that time, responsible for the education of elementary students from primary to grade 5 in my hometown of Truro. That school was built with the intent of being inclusive for everyone. It is a public school, but the first nations students on the reserve close by in Millbrook attend the school.

The involvement of the first nations community in Millbrook in this school is absolutely phenomenal. It invested capital money into the school for construction. It put staff from the reserve, appointed by the chief, into the school.

This bill would also provide $500 million to increase capital construction for schools across Canada and renovations in schools across Canada, current schools that need these renovation monies desperately. This is a bill that would put its money where its mouth is. It would almost double the amount of money that is invested, with an additional $1.25 billion. It would also have money allocated for school construction and school renovations.

I am very proud to support this bill. It also has the support of the chief of the reserve in my hometown. I am proud to stand here and support that on behalf of Millbrook, Chief Gloade, and the young people in my community.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, I just have to take exception to the member's comments regarding the appointments on the joint council. It is actually the case that four members would be recommended by a first nations entity, not by the Assembly of First Nations, as written in this piece of legislation. The minister and the Governor in Council would appoint the chair and four other members, so the minister would control the majority on the joint council.

How can the member say that the joint council would be representative of first nations?

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS

Mr. Speaker, as I said, four of the nine members would be recommended by the first nations community, four would be recommended by the minister, and the chair would be jointly appointed by the minister and the AFN. There would be great consultation in the membership of this joint committee.

As I have talked about the actions of this joint committee, only in severe cases would this committee recommend to the minister and give him the power to replace the administration, or make direct changes within the schools, which would be under the control of the first nations authority. This joint council would be collaborative between both the minister and the government and the AFN.

It would be system of great collaboration.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, the first point I want to raise is where I come from and represent in this House of Commons, which is northwestern British Columbia. People have heard me speak of it often as a beautiful and diverse place. It represents almost a quarter of British Columbia, the northwest quarter, and has within it 49 first nations communities, which are some of the proudest and strongest first nations communities anywhere in the world, such as the Haida, Tsimshian, Taku River Tlingit, Heiltsuk. I could go on to name more.

The pride that is held in these first nations communities is with respect in particular to these generational concepts that are at the very heart of the way that they conduct themselves in law, the way they operate on the land, and the respect they show to one another. As a federal representative, it has been an incredible privilege of mine these past 10 years to attempt to have true and sincere dialogue and consultation, because we have had far too many governments and politicians stand up and attempt to justify that they were speaking on behalf of first nations and then go about their way doing almost the exact opposite and acting in a paternalistic and belittling way toward first nations communities.

I must also contextualize what I am saying. There is broad disagreement in this House around this particular bill. New Democrats have found that it is wanting in some of the most fundamental aspects of what true consultation and collaboration would mean. We have also seen that it will not do what the government is promising. That is a great shame because where we do have agreement in Parliament across the party lines is with respect to the importance of education and skills training particularly for young first nations people. We do not need to repeat the statistics. By and large, young first nations people growing up in Canada suffer with fewer hopes and opportunities than non-aboriginal youth. That is an enormous problem, not just within those communities and those families but for us as a country because it inhibits a huge number of our people but it also inhibits our nation in being able to move forward.

I would also argue that in a place like northwestern British Columbia it inhibits opportunities for the country writ large when it comes to resource development because first nations stand as the gatekeepers, as the protectors of so much of what is important. When the government tries to push through a mining project, an oil pipeline or any such large-scale industrial project it has to understand that respect means respect. Unfortunately, up until this point in some cases the approach of the Conservative government has not been one of respect. It has ridiculed opponents of its plans, demonized them, and called them enemies and radicals. That is not what will carry the conversation forward. What we need is the conversation to move forward.

Let me return to how this day started in Parliament. I have not done this before, but it is important because I was struck by it this morning as you read out the prayer of the House of Commons of Canada, something that happens every morning as members gather. It was the very end of the prayer that the Speaker of the House recites that struck me as we were going to talk about this piece of legislation today, about something so important as first nations education.

The very end of the House of Commons prayer reads:

Grant us wisdom, knowledge, and understanding to preserve the blessings of this country for the benefit of all and to make good laws and wise decisions.

I think about that as we are debating this particular piece of legislation, “Grant us the wisdom, knowledge, and understanding”. Has the government shown that when it is describing its vision for first nations education, where it maintains unilateral power and control by the federal minister of aboriginal affairs, where it maintains the old vestiges and old ideas that got us into so much trouble for so long, where it maintains this idea that Ottawa knows best about the problems of the first nations people and it will fix those problems?

The challenge for the government is that it puts a nice title on the bill and it has nice preambles in the bill that say all sorts of wonderful things, but if only wishing made it so. If what was said in the title and in the opening paragraphs were actually in the law, the parts of the bill that will be impacting the real world, not the nice words but the law, if it had only matched that lovely title and that wonderful preamble, then we would have a much more conducive Parliament and a much more helpful debate than what we have here. The cynical irony is that within hours of the debate starting on a first nations education bill, the government House leader got to his feet to shut down debate on first nations education. He then said that the government is very consultative and respectful and that what it wants to do is show respect for all people, when the first place it showed disrespect is in the very House of Commons that the people elected to represent them.

The audacity that the Conservatives maintain is unbelievable.

We have also suggested this. The Conservatives refused, on their unfair elections act, to have parliamentary hearings outside of Ottawa, because the Conservatives wanted to keep the conversation in the bubble as they were rigging our electoral process. We are now suggesting, with something so critical as first nations education, that certainly it would be the consultative and respectful thing to do to actually leave Ottawa. Heaven forbid that Conservative MPs had to leave Ottawa and go talk to Canadians, first nations, outside of Ottawa and understand what the impact on the ground would be of their legislation. More important, they would hear about all the incredible successes first nations educators and leaders and families are having in battling and dealing with the challenges that have faced first nations communities and families for so long. The successes are there, and the tragedy of this bill is that they are not incorporated.

We would think that the Conservatives would go out and look for the best-case examples, from coast to coast to coast, of people who are creating those innovative environments, having higher graduation rates and success rates, keeping kids in school for that amount of time, and seeing the success when they look for training to enter the workforce. Those successes are there in British Columbia and Alberta and right across to the east and up to the north. Instead, they do this. They impose this top-down model.

The time is limited, but on the very basic facets of what the government has proposed today, it is yet another chapter in the sad story of the way federal governments have dealt with first nations people in Canada. The only hope is that the power that rests in those communities, the bright lights that are working so hard with that right purpose and right mind, will know that they have allies in the New Democratic Party who will stand up for their rights, and that they will allow us one day, and that day cannot come too soon, to achieve some sort of fairness, dignity, and respect for all people in Canada.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

It being 1:15, pursuant to an order made Thursday, May 1, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those opposed will please say nay.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the division stands deferred until Monday, May 5 at the ordinary hour of adjournment.

The hon. member for Oxford is rising on a point of order.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Mr. Speaker, I believe if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock as 1:30 p.m.

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Is it agreed?

First Nations Control of First Nations Education ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-483, An Act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (escorted temporary absence), as reported with amendment from the committee.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

There being no motions at report stage, the House will now proceed, without debate, to the putting of the question on the motion to concur in the bill at report stage.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those opposed will please say nay.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 98, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, May 7 immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

It being 1:17, the House stands adjourned until next Monday at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 1:17 p.m.)