Debates of May 27th, 2014

Vote on Motion No. 10

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I think I have heard enough on this point, and I will come back to the House in due course.

The House resumed from April 9 consideration of the motion that Bill C-32, An Act to enact the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights and to amend certain Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Victims Bill of Rights Act

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I will start with a quote:

A charter of the rights of victims will finally see the day in Canada. As an organization that has been advocating for the rights of families and their missing children since 1985, we salute our government's efforts. The voices of our families have been heard...victims will now be at the centre of the judiciary system in our country.

Those are the words of Pina Arcamone, Director General of the Missing Children's Network. This organization assists families who are dealing with the disappearance of a loved one, which does happen. They can turn to this organization for support.

I have another quote:

The Harper government has kept its promise to victims. Since coming to power, the Harper government has promised to help the victims of crime. Today, we can say that that mission has been accomplished thanks to the introduction of the victims bill of rights act. It is a first in Canadian history....We welcome this new bill and actively support it.

Alain Fortier, the co-founder of Victimes d'agressions sexuelles au masculin, or VASAM, is the person who said that. I had the privilege of meeting him just a few weeks ago, in the days following the introduction in the House of the Canadian victims bill of rights and the bill to bring it into force by my colleague, the Minister of Justice.

Maybe some members will be watching the hockey game tonight instead. That reminds me that when I was born, it was right in the middle of the Canadiens’ final. The gynecologist who was attending my mother during her delivery was a little distracted. I can understand that tonight, some people are watching the Canadiens’ game. I started my speech between the first and second periods, so I would like to add my voice to a lot of people in Quebec and Canada who hope the Canadiens will win tonight.

While our glorious Habs defend the Montreal Canadiens’ honour on the ice, I want to say that I am glad to be here tonight and that I feel privileged to add my voice to the voices of Pina Arcamone, the director general of the Missing Children’s Network in Quebec, and Mr. Fortier, in supporting our government's initiative, the Canadian victims bill of rights.

Since 2006, our government has been committed to putting victims at the centre of our judicial system. The Minister of Justice introduced the bill. I was there with him, along with the Prime Minister and his wife and victims of crime like Sheldon Kennedy. This former hockey player played in the National Hockey League and was a victim of sexual assault while he was in the minor leagues, and he suffered the after-effects.

However, he decided to transform that pain into a constructive force. He was by our side to support the efforts by the government and by Canadian society to encourage victims to speak out and transform their painful experiences into sources of inspiration for other victims, to help them. Today, in fact, Sheldon Kennedy is the founder of a centre that helps other people who have been victims of assault.

This charter contains four important principles whose aim is to ensure that the fundamental rights of victims are recognized: the right to information, which has too often been ignored; the right to participate in the various stages of the judicial process; the right to protection; and the right to restitution.

My colleague, the Minister of Justice, manages the judicial process, and as Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, I have the privilege of ensuring that the other aspects of our legal, judicial and policing systems are taken into account in the Canadian victims bill of rights. That is what I would like to talk about this evening.

For example, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police works on crime scenes after a crime is committed. Correctional Service Canada ensures that offenders serve their sentences. Then there is the Parole Board of Canada. I often say that these entities are the arms and hands of justice.

It is important to ensure that victims are taken into account from the time the crime occurs to the moment the legal process is set in motion and the accused is found guilty, serves his sentence and is then freed.

A number of my colleagues have introduced private member's bills to ensure that our system works harder.

Our government has put laws in place, and the Canadian victims bill of rights solidifies and confirms this important change. The bill gives victims the opportunity to take ownership of the bill of rights and write the new law. The new Canadian law will take victims' rights into consideration. That is why this bill is worthwhile, and I hope to have the support of all members of the House.

I think that this bill transcends party lines, since it not only includes fundamental principles, but it also gives victims tools and practical measures.

Extensive consultations were held across the country to develop the Canadian victims bill of rights. I had the opportunity to participate in consultations in Montreal and Quebec City. Victims spoke up and told us what they wanted to see in the bill. This followed up on the commitment we made in the throne speech and that we mentioned in many of our communications with the public.

Who are these victims?

Floyd Wiebe's son, T.J., was murdered in 2003. He has had to deal with the challenge of trying to find out more information about the situation around his son's killer. He said that all victims want is honesty, information, and to be treated with respect.

Well, it is about time for this country to deliver on the expectation of those victims to have access to information and to be treated with respect.

When I went back to Quebec City the day after introducing the Canadian victims bill of rights, I had an opportunity to meet victims, including one whom most people would be unlikely to think of as a victim: a law enforcement officer. She was a police officer who, in the course of fulfilling her duties as a first responder, was stabbed in the face. She was severely injured. Her attacker was later granted parole and transferred to a halfway house just a few blocks away from where the victim lived. That is the kind of thing we want to put an end to. Victims need to feel protected, not just while the offender is serving time, but also once he has served his sentence and is back in society. That is why we need the Canadian victims bill of rights.

The government took the consultations very seriously. We worked hard to draft a bill that will enable victims to get the resources and information they need when they need it.

That is why we consider this bill to be historic. It is a milestone. The scope of the bill is quasi-constitutional: the Canadian victims bill of rights. The purpose of this bill of rights is to ensure transparency for victims, to ensure that they are fully aware of their rights in relation to the criminal justice system and correctional services.

Once a crime has been committed, it is important for police authorities to inform victims of their rights. This is the mechanism for that. Of course, our police officers have to catch criminals and conduct investigations, but they also have to take victims into consideration. A victim is anyone who has been subjected to physical, emotional or financial harm.

Victims must be taken into account when such actions are reported and police investigations begin, as well as at sentencing, during reviews throughout the offender's incarceration and upon release.

As I mentioned, public safety agencies have an important role to play throughout this process. Therefore, we are proposing changes to how they undertake their work with victims.

Yes, victims want to have better access to the justice system, to be able to choose the information they want to have and to decide at which points they want to interact with the system.

Those four pillars are critical.

The first one is the right to information on demand, such as the status of investigations and criminal proceedings and their outcomes. They would also have a right, on demand, to information about the conditional release of the offender.

Second, victims would have the right to protection. This would include their physical security, protecting them from intimidation and retaliation, as well as ensuring that their privacy would be considered.

Third, victims would have the right to participation. This means ensuring that victims of crime have a voice at the heart of the justice system and can convey how they personally have been impacted by crimes.

Fourth, they would have the right to restitution. By this, we mean that the court would have to consider making a restitution order and if that order were not paid, victims would the right to have that order enforced as a civil debt.

Consequently, incorporating these rights into the bill will change the way many organizations do their job. This is what is referred to as part 2 of the bill, under Public Safety. This will not only apply to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but also to Correctional Service Canada, the Parole Board of Canada, and the Canada Border Services Agency.

As far as the RCMP is concerned, under this bill, victims of crime will have the right to obtain information on the progress of a criminal investigation, from the time when the crime is reported or at the start of the investigation. Victims will not be left in the dark, which was the case for Senator Boisvenu, to whom I wish to pay tribute this evening.

For Senator Boisvenu, this bill is the culmination of what motivated him to enter politics. I consider myself highly privileged, as a member of Parliament from Quebec, to be able to benefit from the expertise, commitment and the passion of Senator Boisvenu in recognizing the rights of victims within our judicial system. He was of course in Toronto, participated in the consultations, and was also in Quebec City with Officer Sandra Dion celebrating the introduction of the bill on the Canadian victims bill of rights.

If I go back to the RCMP, the RCMP already provides information to victims, as well as referrals to victims' services. It is important for victims to know there are those great organizations and services provided, often by provinces, to help and support victims. The RCMP also takes into account a victim's need for protection throughout the investigative and judicial process.

The police and other investigators are usually the first point of contact for victims of crime. By enshrining in law the rights of victims to information, we are acknowledging that police have an important role to play and recognizing just how crucial it is to provide victims with as much information as possible over the course of a criminal investigation.

Under the Canadian victims bill of rights, Canada Border Service Agency investigators would also be affected because they would be responsible for respecting a victim's right to information and to participate in the criminal justice process. For example, the agency would be required to provide victims with updates about the status of criminal investigations related to immigration fraud.

Further, the CBSA would commit to expeditiously sharing information with the Correctional Service of Canada to ensure that registered victims of the federal offenders would be informed when an offender has been removed from Canada, subject to any privacy concerns.

These are major changes affecting the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Canada Border Services Agency.

Now let us look at what happens when a victim is involved when the offender is granted parole. The Canadian victims bill of rights states that a victim is entitled, upon request, to information on an offender who caused them harm. That is one of the four pillars of the bill. This right extends to information on the offender’s parole, for example, if the offender is indeed eligible.

Correctional Service Canada is already in the process of developing tools to provide victims with access to this information and, of course, to enable them to take advantage of modern technology, while respecting standards of confidentiality and privacy, and creating an appropriate environment for victims to access information.

However, this right does not extend to all the information available on the offender. For example, a victim would not have the right to access information of a highly personal nature, such as medical and psychological files, and associated reports. This information would specifically be excluded for reasons of privacy.

While registered victims will not be able to access information that does not pertain to the offence, the Canadian victims bill of rights would provide a registered victim with the right to access information that would be important to them, such as information about the offender's release into the community.

When and where will the inmate be returned to the community? Also, are there conditions imposed on him when he is released? That is fundamental information that victims will have access to through a data bank and special access.

We know that the information most frequently requested from either the Correctional Service of Canada or the Parole Board of Canada is related to the offender's release date, destination and conditions of release.

That information will be available.

Victims also want to know whether the offender has made progress toward social reintegration during his sentence. They want to know whether the offender is taking measures to address the factors that led to his criminal behaviour. Victims will also have access to this information because we are amending the Corrections and Conditional Release Act precisely in order to allow victims to get more updates on offenders' progress.

I have to say that this is a far cry from the Liberal era, when a former solicitor general even said that we must put the rights of criminals before the rights of victims. That is totally unacceptable in a society where the cost of crime is so high. It is time for us to work together to correct this situation and pass the Canadian victims bill of rights to ensure that our country puts victims at the heart of our justice system again.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the minister for his presentation. It is very interesting, and it is clear that the bill deserves our attention. We must improve the situation for victims in Canada. If the government's initiative is serious, then we will be able to improve things for them.

However, the Conservatives themselves said that justice is expensive. Access to justice is also very expensive for victims. There is not a single penny that comes with the charter being presented today. How are less fortunate victims going to access all these fine programs? They are going to have a tough time.

For those who have money, so much the better. I have no doubt that those victims will benefit from this initiative. However, less fortunate victims are not just victims of crime. They are victims of the fact that they are less fortunate. How are they going to have access to justice? What is there in this bill to help them?

I would like to hear what the minister has to say about that.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine for his question and his interest in the bill. I would like to respond with three elements and give him a concrete example that I forgot to mention in my speech.

When the offender is released, the victim, as I mentioned, will have access to three pieces of information: the offender's release date, destination and conditions of release.

There is one other very important element, and that is the fact that the victim will have access to a photo of the offender via a secure portal. We were told that those elements are important to victims.

As for the cost, we must not forget that Quebec and other provinces have made numerous programs available. There are also many organizations that help victims. Of course, we are adding a financial component with the principle of restitution.

We also have to understand—and this is often forgotten in our justice system—that the cost of crime is estimated to be in the tens of billions of dollars. That is important. In putting victims at the heart of the justice system again, we are taking those costs into consideration.

That is why we always need to remember that our justice system must also protect victims from criminals.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the minister has said. One of the concerns I have had in relation to victims is whether the government is doing enough to prevent victims in the first place. When I have the opportunity to have discussions with many of my constituents, they want the government to be more aggressive at coming up with proactive programming, encouraging activities that would lead to fewer victims. I think all Canadians want that.

For me, this is an opportunity to get onto the record an important issue. I believe the government could be doing more. The minister might want to respond, specifically, to the importance of preventing victims in the first place. I realize it is not necessarily overly relevant to the bill, but it is an important aspect. I would be interested in his comments on that.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, reducing crime at the source pertains to the debate tonight. That is why this government has been so keen on making our streets and communities safer by strengthening our laws. We wish we could have benefited from the support of the opposition member, but unfortunately, that has not materialized.

Numbers show that in this country, the crime rate is steadily declining. This is reassuring for Canadians.

With respect to recidivism, those serious criminals who commit repeated offences need to stay behind bars. That is why we have introduced minimum sentences for those specific offences. They are only a tiny portion of crimes. Minimum sentences are important so that honest people are not bothered by criminals.

There is another point I would like to raise. We have a broad national crime prevention strategy. We are working to prevent youth from getting involved with youth gangs. We are also planning to move forward on a strategy to tackle organized crime. This is a challenge.

One dollar invested in prevention and fighting crime is billions of dollars saved. Not only is money saved, but lives are not broken by criminals.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister would be so kind, I would like him to go back to Senator Boisvenu, who before he became a senator was on the streets of Montreal speaking against human traffickers in Quebec. In his life, he turned a great tragedy into a great triumph. The victims bill of rights is important, and Senator Boisvenu had some input into it.

Could the minister please comment on the senator's input on this particular bill of rights?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the great things about being in politics and being on this journey is being able to meet exceptional people. I was certainly privileged to meet with Senator Boisvenu.

I also want to pay tribute to a member of the House who is so committed to fighting human trafficking, which is the worst form of crime in this country. It is modern slavery. I am speaking of the member for Kildonan—St. Paul. She is the one who brought this to reality.

It was the member for Kildonan—St. Paul who made me realize that human trafficking is a reality. It definitely existed in Canada in the 2000s, just as it did in 2010 and it does in 2014.

In fact, Senator Boisvenu, Justice Andrée Ruffo and I marched together in the streets of Montreal to ensure that predators—those who prey especially on minors and often lead them into prostitution, drugs and exploitation—are brought before the courts and subject to minimum sentences.

In that regard, I believe that the member has done much more than is required of an elected official, because she has championed this cause. It is inspiring for all parliamentarians. Her work is very relevant to the victims bill of rights, as is that of Senator Boisvenu. As we know, he was struck by tragedy: a repeat offender killed his daughter.

Senator Boisvenu has worked to ensure that other Canadians do not go through the same trauma. That is why he is campaigning very methodically and rigorously for the recognition of victims' rights. I am thinking, for example, of the Association of Families of Persons Assassinated or Disappeared.

Once again, I would like to acknowledge the remarkable work of the member for Kildonan—St. Paul. I encourage her to continue her work because Canada needs women like her to support the most vulnerable people in our society, including victims of sexual assault.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be speaking in favour of the bill before us, Bill C-32, an act to enact the Canadian victims bill of rights and to amend certain acts. I am supporting it at second reading, because I see some real potential here, and I am hoping that when it gets to committee, it will get the kind of work it requires so we can really address the area of victims' rights. We want to support victims of indictable offences in a real way. We also want to make sure that this charter is not simply a statement of principle that will never be implemented and will just gather dust on some shelf.

This bill outlines the federal right of victims of crime to be informed, to be protected, to participate, and to receive compensation under the Canadian victims bill of rights, and it proposes modifications to the Criminal Code, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, and the Canada Evidence Act to incorporate these rights.

I think this is really important for us to pay attention to. Bill C-32 establishes no legal obligation on those working in the criminal justice system to implement these rights. One thing I have learned over the years is that to have rights on paper does not guarantee too much, because what we need to go along with the rights given to us in legislation are also the tools so that those rights can be implemented and we can benefit from what legislators pass.

We often hear, and I have heard this a number of times, that my colleagues across the aisle truly want to make victims a priority, despite the fact that it took them eight years and many photo ops and press releases to get to the point where they put pen to paper and tabled something before this House. We have to spend some time looking at why it has taken this government that long a time to bring forward this bill, when it has talked about it for such a long time.

It is no secret in this House that the NDP has always supported the rights of victims. We will continue to consult with victims groups and experts to determine how we can best assist them. On this side of the House, we have no allergy to expert opinion, to data, to research, or to listening to the health professionals who work with victims. They know a lot about this.

As members know, I have been a teacher most of my life, and in that role, I was also a counsellor in a school. I often dealt with young adults who were victims of crime and with their families as well. I became aware of the deplorable lack of services that exist to support victims, so this has been a topic that has been close and dear to my heart for a number of years. I am glad to see that the government will be moving on it.

One of the things I also became aware of when I was a high school counsellor is how few resources there are out there. I do not know if members are aware of this, but the federal government has often relied on the provinces to provide some of these resources and services to support victims. However, the provinces are feeling stretched to the limit. We are hearing from them that the downloading of the refugee health care costs is putting a huge burden on the provinces. We have heard that from the premiers, from citizen groups, and from the medical profession as well. That is one example of being penny wise and pound foolish.

There have been other things, as we know, such as health care costs and all kinds of responsibilities. Under this government, the costs have been downloaded to the provinces to carry out. They only have so many resources.

I was reminded today of something that happened in B.C. In the beautiful province of British Columbia, we actually have a Liberal-Conservative coalition government. They call themselves Liberals, but even my colleagues across the way would admit that they are just as conservative as those sitting across the way. That government has cut the victims' criminal injuries fund. That is the fund that would be used to support and provide services to victims. I am hearing that because of financial pressures, some provinces, such as Newfoundland and Labrador,have eliminated that fund altogether.

I worry that we are setting expectations very high and are not going to be able to deliver those services, because there seems to be very little attached to this piece of legislation that would actually lead to any kind of implementation resources. Without those resources, all we are left with, and this I think we can agree on, are principles in proposed bills and charters. How will those play out? What kind of support will be available to the victims?

We have discovered this over and over again when we have seen legislation brought forward and we have thought that at last the government is going to address this issue. It is going to fix this. However, what I have discovered at various committee meetings is that it is not that easy, because with this government, the devil is always in the details. In this bill, it is the lack of details and resources that really hit us.

It is because of that that we are supporting this bill at second reading. We want to see what we can flesh out at committee stage. There is no way the government across the way is going to get a blank cheque on this issue without actually putting some resources on the table.

We will study the bill. We are not allergic to experts. We are going to invite experts. My colleagues across the way will invite experts, and we will listen to their opinions. We will read the data they have, and we will listen to the victims. Based on that, we will make sure that we put forward amendments so that the bill will really respond to victims' needs.

One of the things that struck me even before I decided to run as a member of Parliament was that we have had a government for a number of years that has been making all kinds of promises and often portrays itself as a law and order government. More recently, in the throne speech, it promised this bill. This has been in its platform since 2006. We are glad it is here now, but let us really take a look at what it means.

When I hear the term, “a government of law and order”, I really have to shake my head. I heard the minister speak earlier, and I was thinking that there were commitments made in the last election to put additional police out on the streets. In my beautiful province of British Columbia, in my riding of Newton—North Delta, in Surrey and North Delta, my constituents tell me over and over again that they are feeling betrayed because the government did not deliver the additional policing it promised.

However, I am the first one to say that policing is not the only answer. We have to look at many other ways of tackling crime in our neighbourhoods.

I have regular coffee shop meetings with my constituents, and because of a horrific murder in my riding, the 26th in a year, the community galvanized. There have been many meetings, and at every meeting my constituents tell me that they do not feel very safe and they are very worried. Seniors tell me that all the time.

I heard the minister on how we can save millions or billions of dollars with preventative programs. I would say that here is an example of where we are failing to put more police on the streets and look at prevention programs.

It is interesting that the minister strongly supports prevention, but when I talk to the huge range of different service providers in my riding,I find that their program support services are being cut dramatically, some by 100%. A lot of the services that used to be available to help youth reintegrate into society, lead a positive lifestyle, and enter into meaningful employment have not been funded or have been cut.

When I look at the mental health services that are available, I do not actually see any investment, even though we all stand in this House and talk about the great cost of mental health issues across our communities to our health services, our social services, and our penal system. We are all aware of that. Once again, where are the resources to help those who suffer from mental illness? Where are the resources, in a serious way, for those who are dealing with addictions, so that we can help them once again lead a more successful life? I have heard a lot about this.

I have a lot of respect for my colleague across the way, who has done a lot of work on human trafficking. I think everyone in this House would agree that it is a heinous crime and something we need to tackle in a serious way in the international community, because it is an international problem and we need to play our part.

Today we are talking about victims. What is it that victims need? Victims have been telling us that they need access to services and they need support. Many of them also want access to parole hearings and to be informed about the status of prosecution. They just want to know where the case is at.

A mother whose child died very tragically would check in with me regularly, asking if so-and-so was about to come up for parole. Every time parole came up, that mom went through all the pain and agony as if it had happened just that day.

We do not need to provide patronizing words. We need to provide real support and real processes that are going to work. It is not just for the sake of politically saying that we have this bill and we have done our piece, because until we provide the resources and put mechanisms in place to implement the bill, it is just words. I really do not want victims to feel further victimized because they feel that we played some kind of game with them.

I will read some quotes.

This is what Steve Sullivan, the first victims ombudsman, had to say about the bill on the CBC news on April 3, 2014. What he said rings alarm bells for me and makes me look at the bill more closely.

The former victims ombudsman charged Thursday that the Minister of Justice has over-promised and under-delivered on the Conservative government's victims bill of rights.

Those are not easy words for anyone to say, but I can see why he would have said that when he saw that there were no resources attached to this bill.

Also, there is Lori Triano-Antidormi, a mother of a murdered child. I cannot imagine the pain that this mom has gone through. She said this to CBC news on April 3, 2014, just last month. She stated that not everyone believes the bill will be effective. She went on to say that the bill will create false hope for victims.

We have to remember that Lori Triano-Antidormi is not only a victim of crime, but she is also a psychologist and helps to treat others.

The article further stated:

“My concern is promising [victims] more involvement in a very adversarial system,” she said. She says that, right now, victims have no role in a verdict unless they are a witness. “The crown has the final say.” Triano-Antidormi said if the government were to make that change, it would only fuel vengeance in the victim “which from a physiological perspective doesn't help their healing or recovery.”

I can only imagine the kind of pain this mother suffered. Despite all her personal pain, she has asked us to reflect on what we are doing here, and I am sure we will be doing that when we get to the committee stage.

L'Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes on April 3, 2014, basically said that this bill may provide real leverage and not just a false promise to be dangled before our eyes. However, then it went on to say it really rests on making resources available to victims once their rights have been infringed.

Once again, we keep going back to that resource item. Without that resource item, it points to how hollow this bill could be.

It went on to say the governments have a responsibility to recognize victims' rights, but also to help them exercise those rights. Just stipulating the rights without providing assistance for that next stage makes it very hard and almost hollow, so the association is very worried about that.

Clayton Ruby, criminal law expert, said:

They need rehabilitative programs and services, and compensation from the government, and they’ve dropped all those expensive demands in favour of shallow symbolism.

Frank Addario stated:

...the...government’s agenda is to position itself as tough on crime, even though it knows its measures have little real-world effect. It’s cynicism masquerading as policy.

I am going to give my colleagues the benefit of the doubt. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt because when we get to the committee stage to try to fix this bill with magnificent amendments, I know the Conservatives will pay attention and listen to some of the concerns we have. I am hoping they have been paying attention to some of the feedback out there as well, not just to the bits they want to hear but also to the rest.

Sharlene Lange, a victim's mother, stated:

Beyond the sentencing stage of the process, the victims basically fall off the face of the earth.... Rights need to go beyond the criminal process for this bill to even be a bill of rights.

She said she will continue to lobby until true financial compensation for victims exists.

There is absolutely no doubt that we need a bill of rights for victims. A study released in 2011 by the Department of Justice Canada found that the total cost of crime is an estimated $99.6 billion a year, 83% of which is borne by the victims.

With that in mind, I would urge my colleagues across the way to look at amendments at the committee stage, seriously consider what the bill really means, and make sure that resources and implementation mechanisms are in place so that victims truly feel supported and this does not turn out to be a sham.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her speech and for her indication that she would be supporting the bill at second reading and allowing the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, which I sit on, to examine the bill in detail. I can assure her that the bill will be examined in detail by her colleagues and mine and by colleagues from the other parties at committee.

The member mentioned that we need to listen to the victims, and she quoted a few of them. She may know of Sharon Rosenfeldt, whose son was tragically murdered by Clifford Olson many years ago. She has been a tireless advocate for victims of crime for many years and she started an organization called Victims of Violence.

After the introduction of this bill, she said:

Victims of Violence is very pleased that the government has indicated it's interest and intention to act in a variety of criminal justice and public security subject areas on behalf of victims of crime. In particular, we are pleased that the victims of crime now have a federal Victims Bill of Rights that is codified in law which is a major step for victims in Canada. The Bill contains worthwhile steps to confirm the importance of victims receiving information and having their voices heard. We are also pleased to see that the Bill contains a number of recommendations that have been put forward by victims over the past number of years.

I wonder if the hon. member would comment on that.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have had the pleasure to work with my colleague across the way at committee and I know how seriously he takes his work. I really appreciate his putting forward that question.

I need him to know that is why I am supporting the bill going to committee stage, because even though the bill is not enough the way it is right now, it is a step in the right direction. It is a piece of legislation that many are disappointed with, but others are saying that at least it is a little baby step and it is the beginning.

In that way, let us make sure that when we get to the committee stage, we strengthen it by putting real teeth in it and by also making sure that resources are there so that victims get the support they need. They do not just need words; they also need support, and that support is what helps to heal them and rehabilitate them.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on the member's comments that victims deserve more than just platitudes and statements.

We would like to see things that are far more tangible. In certain situations, for example, when I was chair of a justice committee, we tried to move into the area of restorative justice, whereby in certain situations victims can be a part of coming up with the dispositions of those individuals who caused the harm in whatever fashion it might have been.

In fact, there are many different things that government can be doing outside of legislation. The member made reference to a commitment, for example, to increase the number of police officers. It builds up an expectation. In Winnipeg, I know many police officers felt they were going to see an increase, and that never materialized.

I would argue that the reason back then—and I do not know if it has been put in place recently—was that no real negotiations took place between the province and the federal government over how that would be implemented. Yes, money was flagged for it, but it was never really acted upon.

Talk is cheap. Our constituents want to see more action, and the member might want to provide comment on the whole idea of action.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, just as my colleague has said, there were all kinds of commitments made during the last election for additional policing.

It is not just my riding, but other ridings that have had problems with safety and crime are asking the same questions about what happened.

My colleagues across the way, including the minister, mentioned earlier that they brought in mandatory minimum sentencing. If we could really end crime through mandatory minimum sentencing, then the prisons in the U.S. would not be overcrowded. The U.S. would not be spending such a major part of its budget on prisons, and there would have been a decrease in crime. Research shows that the U.S. is not seeing that decrease in crime. It is now looking more towards the rehabilitative approach that we have had in the past, rather than a purely punitive approach.

When we are looking at action, it starts quite early. It starts with the kind of investment we make in preschool education, with the kind of investment we make in K-12, and it also starts, when our students get off the tracks, with the kind of resources we provide to help them get back on the right track. It also means providing support for those suffering from mental health issues. The provinces have been cutting those programs because of funding.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I also support the bill. I take the same sort of view that my hon. colleague does: to support the bill, get it to second reading and hope for amendments.

I noted the member quoted from the first of the federal ombudsmen for victims of crime. I commend the current administration for creating that position.

However, the current federal ombudsman for victims of crime put out a statement on Bill C-32. I was familiar with the recommendations that went forward. That office had made 30 recommendations for what should be in a bill that spoke to the rights of victims of crime. Of the 30 recommendations put forward by that office, only four have been fully contained in this bill.

One I thought was particularly notable, and I hope we can get to it at committee for an amendment. I will not be a member of that committee, but I urge members to take note of it. It is that in order to benefit from any of the so-called rights that victims of crime will get under this bill, they need to know that they have to register themselves with the parole office or with the correctional service as a victim to get on the list to get the notification of such things as when the person who perpetrated the crime against them is being released and so on.

Surely we need to include in this bill very clear notification, clear communication to victims of how they get their rights and how they exercise those rights. That key piece is missing.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, absolutely, there is much that is missing from this bill. That is why, when it gets to committee, I am sure there will be amendments galore to try to fix it.

My colleague just pointed out a reality that we face with a government that keeps moving closure and keeps shutting down debate. It refuses to listen to experts. An ombudsman appointed by the government makes 30 recommendations on what must be included in a bill, and the government rejects 26 of those items out of the 30 and cherry-picks the 4.

That actually adds to why I am so concerned about the inadequacies of this bill, and why we need to take our time to study it. However, as the government has already moved lengthy sittings and closure on all kinds of issues, I am not too hopeful that we will get to debate this in a meaningful way, to make some real changes and not be left with a sham.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Newton—North Delta. Her speech was very eloquent, and we should really examine it closely because she raised many very interesting points. I would like to ask her a quick question.

This bill proposes to create a complaints mechanism for victims. An agency would deal with those complaints at either the federal or provincial level. However, there is no funding for this. The federal government is once again mandating the provinces to spend money.

I would like the hon. member to comment on the fact that the federal government is always downloading costs onto the provinces. I would also like her to talk about the impact this will have on the services the provinces can provide.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will keep it very brief. This is another example of a government that cannot work with partner groups and cannot work with the opposition to address some very critical issues.

I would say that there has probably been very little consultation with the provinces. They will be surprised at this. They will be left with the costs and everything. I am worried about what that is going to mean. It is going to mean that nothing is going to happen.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my hon. colleague, the hon. member for Don Valley West.

Every so often, members of Parliament see a bill that says to them, “This is why I was elected to Parliament. This is why I came to Ottawa on behalf of my constituents”. For me, the victims bill of rights act is one of those bills.

Victims have been calling for these protections and these rights for years. For far too long, our justice system has focused on the rights of the accused and ignored the victims. Their loved ones have been murdered, they have been assaulted and harassed, and their homes have been broken into, yet the justice system often just treats them like just another witness.

I am very pleased to speak on this important bill, which would enshrine certain rights for victims of crime into federal legislation. In so doing, it is expected that the reforms would significantly improve the way our criminal justice system responds to victims, while at the same time recognizing the important role that they can and should play in the criminal justice system.

In the brief time available to me, I would like to focus on the general provisions and definitions and the primacy clause included in this bill.

The first thing to note is that bill proposes a definition of “victim” that recognizes the physical and emotional harms suffered as the result of the commission or alleged commission of an offence. It also recognizes that crime results in property damage and economic loss to victims. This definition would further inform the proposed changes to the definition of victim in the Criminal Code and the Corrections and Conditional Release Act. I support this broad definition, as it accurately reflects the realities of victims of crime.

This bill, and the rights contained therein, would apply to victims of all offences under the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, and the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, as well as to several offences in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, and criminal offences in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

In unfortunate cases where the victim is deceased or incapable of exercising his or her rights, another person would be able to act on his or her behalf. For example, in cases where the victims are children or have suffered so much trauma that they are incapable of exercising their rights, someone such as a parent or a spouse would be able to speak for them and ensure that the victim's voice is not lost.

Every victim deserves to have an effective voice and to be heard. The bill would put these rights on paper and entrench them within the law.

However, this bill would not allow for the accused or an offender, including those persons found not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder or those who are unfit to stand trial, to be considered a victim in the offence in question, or to act on behalf of a victim. This is an important safeguard against the potential misuse of this bill.

The rights proposed in this bill would apply to victims involved in the Canadian criminal justice system. This means that tourists, temporary and permanent residents, and Canadian citizens could invoke their rights while they are in Canada. The rights of permanent residents and citizens could also be invoked while they are abroad. For example, a retired couple who have been the victims of fraud in Canada but who live in Florida during the winter could rely upon the proposed rights to receive information about the status of any ongoing Canadian investigation.

This bill would make it clear that the victims of crime have rights at every stage of the criminal justice system, from the investigation of an offence right through to the conditional release process, including during proceedings before review boards for accused persons found not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder or those who are unfit to stand trial. This would ensure that victims have rights, even in cases that are unresolved or where no accused or offender has yet been identified, such as in the case of families of missing persons.

I had the opportunity to serve on the special committee for the study into violence against indigenous women, the report of which was just recently tabled in the House of Commons. In one of those meetings, we heard from the families of victims of some of these indigenous women who have disappeared. Many of these women, as we know from the RCMP report, have been murdered. The families told us that they need the rights that are enshrined in this victims bill of rights. They need to know what is happening at every step of the police investigation into the disappearance of their loved ones. This is something that they have not always experienced in the past, and these rights would now be enshrined in this law. That is one of the reasons I feel so passionately about this bill.

Even if some victims of crime choose not to interact with the criminal justice system and exercise their rights, this bill would ultimately be beneficial to all victims and all Canadians. This bill would increase victims' awareness of their rights and enhance awareness of victims' needs among criminal justice professionals and the general public through the online resources and training opportunities facilitated by the government. Right now, there is no document that victims can consult if they want to know all of their rights within the federal justice system.

This bill would ensure that victims' rights are applied in a reasonable manner and in a way that is not likely to interfere with the proper administration of justice or ministerial discretion; endanger the life or safety of any individual; or cause injury to international relations, national defence, or national security. As this bill makes clear, victims would be informed and involved at every stage of the criminal justice process. That is very important. I myself have been a victim of crime and I know that throughout the investigative and prosecutorial processes I had to learn about what was going on through the news media because I was not receiving that information directly from the justice system.

These rights would be implemented through mechanisms provided by law. Indeed, these technical changes would give life to the rights contained in the Canadian victims bill of rights in a manner that is consistent with the unique constitutional and operational realities of the criminal justice system. As we know, the criminal justice system is a shared responsibility, with the federal government having constitutional authority over the criminal law and criminal procedure, and the provinces being responsible for the administration of justice. Accordingly, many of the proposed amendments would be implemented through the actions of the provinces. This bill respects the constitutional division of powers. This government does not intend nor wish to encroach upon provincial or territorial jurisdiction.

This bill does not seek to impede efficiencies in the criminal justice system. Inefficiencies and undue delays in the system would not serve the best interests of the victims. For example, delays in the system could result in charges being dropped and proceedings being stayed. An accused person must be tried within a reasonable time and no victim of crime should ever be denied justice because of delays in the system.

This bill would also provide internal safeguards so that authorities could always act in the public interest when victims' rights are being exercised. Authorities must maintain the ability to protect both victims and the Canadian public at all times.

Thus, this bill would also provide transformational change for victims while upholding the rule of law and respecting principles such as police and prosecutorial discretion. For instance, it is a well-recognized constitutional principle that the Attorneys General of this country must act independently of partisan concerns when exercising their delegated sovereign authority to instigate, continue, or terminate prosecutions. This bill respects that independence, and at the same time grants victims a greater voice in the process.

Let me also elaborate on the primacy clause proposed in this bill, which signals that victims' rights are to be taken seriously and given meaningful effect by all in the criminal justice system. It proposes as a general rule that all federal legislation would be required to the extent possible to be interpreted in a way that is consistent with the Canadian victims bill of rights. In circumstances where there is clear and irreconcilable conflict between a federal law and the Canadian victims bill of rights, the provisions of this bill would prevail. Victims' rights would be decided on a case-by-case basis whenever conflicts arose between this bill and laws contained in other federal acts.

The Canadian Bill of Rights, the Canadian Human Rights Act, the Official Languages Act, the Access to Information Act, and the Privacy Act would be expressly exempt from the primacy clause because they are also quasi-constitutional. These acts protect the rights and interests of all Canadians, including victims of crime, and they also have a clear link to the fundamental rights and freedoms found in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I firmly believe that this bill is the necessary catalyst for creating a culture of change in the criminal justice system so that the needs of victims of crime can be better met. Given the progressive and vital nature of this bill, I urge all of my colleagues on both sides of the House to support it.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would have liked to ask the Minister of Public Safety a question.

In his speech, the minister gave us the impression that there is no budget allocated for this program. He even went farther by saying in response to a question that in general, the provinces have good services to help victims.

I think the lack of budget is problematic. The provinces have their own expenses and their own programs. Of course, it is a good step forward to create a federal program from a policy based on a new law. However, the fact that there is no budget is a real problem, and it will pose a major challenge for the provinces, which will have to add this to their list of responsibilities.

I would like to know whether the provinces were consulted.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as you just pointed out, I am sure the hon. member knows I am not the Minister of Public Safety, but I thank her for the promotion, in any event.

She will probably know, if she read economic action plan 2014, that it commits to supporting the implementation of a Canadian victims bill of rights. She will remember that the victim surcharge was doubled. That goes to the provinces for the administration of justice, including supporting the victims bill of rights. I believe she and her colleagues voted against that, which is unfortunate.

In recent years, the federal government has created the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime. It has created the federal victims strategy, providing more than $120 million for programs and services that help give victims a more effective voice in the criminal justice system. It has allocated more than $10 million for new or enhanced child advocacy centres, since 2010, to address the needs of child and youth victims of crime. It has, as I mentioned earlier, doubled the victim surcharge, which provides funding for these services.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask that the member expand on his comments about victims who are children when he talked about an advocacy fund.

I do think it is important that we recognize that, yes, where we can improve upon legislation to protect our victims and provide rights, that is generally and principally a step in right direction.

However, having said that, I think we need to be more aggressive in terms of how we can, in a more tangible fashion, provide the resources that might be necessary; or as I said earlier this evening, are we really doing enough to prevent crimes from taking place in the first place, thereby preventing victims from becoming victims?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member mentioned child youth advocacy centres in his question, and I am really pleased he did that, in terms of child services for child victims of crime.

One of the most important things our government has done is support the creation of these child youth advocacy centres. There is a very important one in Toronto called the Boost child and youth advocacy centre. I hope our government will be able to support one in my Region of Peel, which is the cities of Mississauga and Brampton. A plan is being worked on to prepare one there very soon, and I hope it will be supported by the Department of Justice in the future.

On April 3, Karyn Kennedy, executive director of the Boost centre in Toronto, said the following about the bill of rights:

Boost supports the work of the Federal Government in creating the Victims Bill of Rights. This legislation will give victims a much stronger voice and a greater presence in the criminal justice system.

She further said:

We have been part of several consultations on the bill over the past year and are pleased to see the progress made.

I think that statement indicates that those who provide victim services to children see this as a big step forward in the services they provide.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague the member for Mississauga—Erindale for his contribution this evening and for sharing his time with me.

I am pleased to participate in the second reading debate on Bill C-32, the victims bill of rights act. Today I will focus my remarks on the proposed remedies provisions of the Canadian victims bill of rights.

The Canadian victims bill of rights is aimed at ensuring that victims are treated with dignity and respect during the various stages of the criminal justice process and that their voices are, in fact, heard.

Criminal justice professionals play a crucial role in the delivery of an effective criminal justice system. They do their jobs very well, often under very difficult circumstances, including dealing with victims with compassion and respect, but it does happen—and this is what victims told us—that they can feel that their rights have been breached or that they have been treated inappropriately. The Canadian victims bill of rights would ensure that there is a way to right a wrong when it happens.

The Minister of Justice consulted with victims and other stakeholders across the country from April to October 2013. Significant input was received, including in terms of options for a complaint resolution process. The Canadian victims bill of rights proposes a complete resolution process that is based on the principle that the particular agency responsible for the breach should be the first to receive the complaint. Subsection 25(1) of the bill makes this very clear.

Section 25 would also require all federal institutions involved in the criminal justice process to have mechanisms in place to receive complaints, to make recommendations for addressing any violations of rights, and to inform victims of the results of a complaint. This would include, for example, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, and the Correctional Service of Canada.

Similar mechanisms are also in place in agencies that are under provincial and municipal responsibility, such as the provincial Crown prosecution services and municipal police forces.

This approach has many benefits. It would help foster the sort of remedial responses that victims have indicated would be meaningful to them. During consultations with stakeholders and victims groups, many suggested that in response to a breach of a victim's rights, the agency responsible should issue an apology directly to the victim for the misconduct. They also indicated that the agency responsible should fix the problem so that it does not happen again to another victim.

In other words, victims want remedies to include positive, responsive steps to change the culture or practices within an organization. They want remedies to be forward-looking and to address problems that have been detected. They want to spare other families from having to endure the same kind of mistreatment in the future.

Victims are best served by sharing their concerns directly with the agencies that are tasked with protecting them and by encouraging those agencies to see that every effort must be made to ensure that victims, as an integral part of the criminal justice process, are treated with the courtesy, compassion, and respect they deserve throughout every step of the process.

Apologies and improved practices are key elements that each criminal justice agency must consider directly as part of their responsibilities toward victims and toward Canadians more generally.

This approach would also have the benefit that criminal justice agencies would treat remedies for a breach of victims rights as part and parcel of their overarching obligations. It would also help keep costs manageable, as every such agency would already have in place a process for receiving complaints.

It is entirely possible that victims who made a complaint about the conduct of police, a prosecutor, or a correctional institution might not be satisfied with the response they received. Victims would, therefore, also be able to take their complaint to an authority that has jurisdiction over the agency that breached the right. Whether the agency is under federal or provincial authority, there are supervisory organizations that can take a fresh look at that complaint.

In the case of a breach by a federal agency, if a complaint is not resolved to the satisfaction of the victim, the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime would assist victims with complaints and work informally with relevant federal agencies to address the breach and improve practices for dealing with victims of crime.

In regard to an allegation of infringement by a provincial or municipal agency, the bill respects the split constitutional jurisdiction and proposes that the applicable remedy is the remedy set out in the provincial law, policies, or practices. Provincially, remedial options may include ombudsmen for the province, specialized victims offices, or designated police oversight bodies, for instance.

The victims bill of rights is the result of a balanced approach. Under the bill, victims of crime would not have standing to make complaints about breaches of their rights in court within the context of criminal proceedings against the accused. It is important to ensure that criminal trials are not sidetracked to deal with government agencies that allegedly have infringed the rights of victims. The criminal trial process must stay focused on determining the guilt or innocence of the person accused of a crime. State mistreatment of crime victims must be appropriately dealt with in its own right through separate processes.

I hope that all members of the House will join me in supporting this bill. We have heard tonight from a number of members on all sides of the House who support the bill and intend to vote in its favour. It would give victims a strong voice in the criminal justice system through the creation of rights for victims of crime and a strong remedial scheme to address breaches of those rights.