Debates of Sept. 16th, 2014

Opposition Motion—Federal Minimum Wage

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue and for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

I think we did clearly articulate what the upcoming labour needs will be across this country. My children are in their twenties; I had thought the world would totally be their oyster because the baby boomers would have moved on, although the baby boomers are a little slower in moving on. We have some enormous challenges ahead of us in terms of our labour workforce, and that is where our government is focused.

I would like to bring up the working income tax benefit and a number of important initiatives that we have introduced to help people with lower incomes: the average family of four now saves $3,500; we reduced the GST from 7% to 6% to 5%; we have introduced measures in terms of supporting families; seniors' pension splitting is another measure that has really supported families. It is an important debate to be really focused on what the upcoming labour needs will be in this country, and we have some huge challenges ahead.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie for moving this motion today. It is a very simple, very specific and very fair motion for Canadian workers.

This proposal will help the workers of this country, especially the younger generation of workers, whose salary has not increased, as well as the middle class and the poor. The statistics are also very clear. There is a very serious problem for the government, society and the economy when the poorest workers' wages have gone up by only 1¢ over the past 40 years. That is unbelievable to anyone who thinks that a society should be more fair and that there should not be such a large gap between the very rich and the poor.

This is a proposal the Conservatives have been arguing all day is not important because it would not impact many people but is terrible and must be opposed because it would have such an enormous impact on our economy. Never to let contradiction get in the way of a Conservative argument, it has to be one or the other. If they are going to get back to their talking points, I suggest that they pick one of those criticisms and then go with that, because they have offered up both. The Conservatives say that it would only apply to a couple of people but if it were to actually exist in reality it would destroy the economy. It is quite incredible that so few workers could affect so many millions of people. Of course, it is neither of those things.

This is a very moderate proposal to reinstate the minimum wage that was taken out after it had been stagnant for many years at $4 an hour. It is to reinstate that federal minimum wage and to gradually, over five years, increase it to a level that, at $15 an hour, most Canadians, with the cost of living today, in 2014, would suggest is not getting anyone rich. We are seeking to apply this to those who fall under federal jurisdiction and is absolutely respecting provincial jurisdiction, another criticism; for some reason the Conservatives suddenly are new-found lovers of the provinces' rights and jurisdiction. This is an amazing moment for me to watch Conservatives who have imposed so much on our provincial cousins, mostly in downloading many of the health and transfer costs onto the backs of the provinces, which then download it onto the backs of our cities and municipalities.

Take that other contradiction aside. What this proposal suggests we do in 2014, in a modern society and a progressive economy, which is what New Democrats will be proposing come the next election and now, is to very moderately increase that minimum wage, reinstate that federal condition, and bring it from where it is presently, which is ridiculously ineffectual and non-existent at $4 an hour, up to $15 an hour. This might not immediately impact more than 40,000 or upwards of 100,000 workers in Canada, but for someone on the Conservative benches to say that this is meaningless is to suggest that those 100,000-plus workers and their families are of no meaning to them. That is insulting, and I hope that is not what my Conservative colleagues mean.

If we can start to suggest it for those employees who are regulated in the banking and transportation sectors, jurisdictions regulated by the federal government, we have some leadership role to play. We have seen the stagnation of the middle class and the lower economic classes in Canadian society, even as our economy overall has grown in the last 30 to 40 years. If we see that it is not being shared at all equally and has in fact been concentrating up in that higher 5% and 1% of income earners, with the haves having more, then we should take a step back and understand that there may be some role for government and business to play in this.

As a former small-business owner myself, one of the things I know small-business owners need is not a government obsessed with one tool in the tool box. Whether their taxation level is this or is that, they need fairness, but they also need customers. One thing we know about measures like this, and it has been studied extensively across academia and by those who work in the business community, is that a slight raise in the minimum wage often offers enormous economic benefits to small and medium businesses. It just makes common sense that those who are earning $12, $14, and $15 an hour are much more likely to spend those dollars locally than those making $150 and $200 an hour. That only makes sense for those small and medium businesses that exist within Canada.

Mr. Speaker, as an aside, I would like to say that I will be sharing my time with my esteemed colleague from Joliette. I apologize for not mentioning it earlier.

This can help small and medium local economies, something that is of great interest to New Democrats.

We have put forward a number of proposals. We put forward a proposal in the last election that the Conservatives lambasted then picked up and put into their budget. That proposal was to connect a tax credit for people who are doing the hiring to an actual hire. This is a radical notion, I know. It suggests that the government is going to give small or medium businesses a break on their taxes when they hire someone as opposed to the largesse that has been showered on some of the wealthiest corporations in Canada for the last 25 years, and I am talking in the order of tens of billions of dollars in tax cuts with no strings attached whatsoever.

The Conservatives and before them the Liberal government simply trusted the largest companies, the banks, and the oil and gas companies, those companies that were making the most profit and that stood to gain the most from those corporate tax cuts. The idea was that they would reinvest and hire more, but that was not the case. We know that was not the case, because our dear friend, the former finance minister, Jim Flaherty, stood in front of that same business community not a year and a half ago and chastised them, as did the former governor of the Bank of Canada, Mark Carney, for all of this “dead money” that was sitting in corporate Canada's coffers. All of the tax cuts that had been given to the largest companies in corporate Canada had not been reinvested in research and development or in hiring more employees, for various reasons. Corporate Canada can answer those questions.

We as New Democrats feel that there is no such thing as a free lunch. If we are going to aid individual businesses in certain sectors, that should be somehow a quid pro quo with the larger society and they are going to hire someone with that help.

What we are offering today is a very clear and concise proposal that would not only help working families but would help those small and medium businesses that are, as the parliamentary secretary said, the job creators of today.

There is also, of course, a ripple effect. Some provinces are lagging behind and are racing to the bottom to try to attract business by suggesting that there is no opportunity or duty on behalf of business to pay taxes for all those schools and bridges that we are constantly referencing in our taxes and tax policy. Those provinces that have lagged behind and have said that $8, $9, or $10 an hour is fine for people to make a living on feel that Canadians can feed their families on that amount as electricity and utility prices go up, as the cost of education does nothing but go up, and as the basic cost of living goes up. Clearly, that creates an unfair society, which, by the way, we know both anecdotally and empirically leads to a much more expensive society. When the gap between the have and the have-nots widens to a greater extent, all of those social services bear more. There is more crime. There is more cost to society at large, and there is less peace.

We should all seek to remember our guiding light: peace, order, and good government. That is meant to show the way for all governments in Canada, regardless of their political stripe. The Conservative government would not know that if it came up and smacked it on the nose.

The Conservatives have often quoted here today that the CFIB has been a great proponent of the finance minister's latest proposal, another that is essentially carte blanche, with his strange dividing line on EI premiums. He drew two strange lines in the sand on lowering EI premiums for Canadian companies. One was for employers that hit below a certain annual amount in contributions in EI premiums. If an employer paid $1 more in EI premiums, that employer would get zero benefit from this new program. A bunch of employers have now entered into the public discussion. They are saying that if they were $10 over in EI premiums and they would get no benefit from this new tax break, then there would be an incentive for them to let somebody go to get below the line.

The second line the government chose, and we see this as fundamental unfairness by the government, is that it excluded workers from any of that benefit. Workers will continue to pay into an EI program that only 35% of them can actually access. The government is going to give the break to employers exclusively. Why would the government do something like that unless it had a particular hate on for working people? That makes no sense at all, because they are the ones who pay the taxes. They are the ones who voted for us and put us here to make sure that we have a thriving and surviving country.

Income inequality is something we all need to address, whatever our political persuasion. We want programs that work and that are moderate and fair. We think that today we have proposed just that. We are proposing to move the federal minimum wage over time up to $15 an hour. It seems like basic fairness, basic economic common sense, and something that I am surprised the Conservatives cannot find their twisted logical way through to support to help Canadian workers out for once.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Skeena—Bulkley Valley for his very informative speech.

At the end of my speech, I talked about the Canadian Medical Association report published as part of the study on inequality conducted by the Standing Committee on Finance. Our leader, the future prime minister of Canada, also referred to that report this summer in his speech before the Canadian Medical Association. Clearly, Canadian doctors are very worried about income inequality. In fact, a large segment of the population no longer has the means to secure decent living conditions, which is one of the so-called “determinants of health”.

One thing that is very clear in this debate is that increasing the minimum wage to $15 would make it easier for several hundred thousand people to live their lives in dignity.

I wonder if my colleague could talk about the impact that such an increase in the minimum wage could have on the health, well-being and quality of life of Canadians.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question.

Minimum wage is a very important issue, because it has an impact on everyone's quality of life.

I will add one more thing, because this is about the government making choices. We have seen the Conservatives go out on this income-splitting scheme, some multiple billions of dollars that is going to help fewer than 15% of Canadians, and not the Canadians my friend references, those in the middle. Those earning at the lower end of the spectrum will not be helped by a multi-billion-dollar tax scheme proposed by the government.

That is what it plans to do with the surplus that has been so hard fought for through all those cuts to services for Canadians, veterans, our food inspection. All of that was to pay for what: something to help out the 15% who likely need it least and who are least likely to reinvest it back into the Canadian economy.

This is when orthodoxy and ideology rule out any kind of economic sense and evidence. We know that government is always about choices. We propose choices, like the choice in front of us today, that will directly and importantly help those who need the help.

Why would the Conservatives possibly want to say that for people who are earning $10 or $11 an hour, that it is where they should stay, and their families should survive by just making do. The Conservatives are saying that the rest of us are fine on the salaries an MP makes. That is some contradiction in terms.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments from the member.

The question I have is in regard to the impression many might be receiving that the NDP are proposing a minimum wage across Canada that would affect all Canadians. We know that to not necessarily be accurate.

I wonder if the member might want to highlight that what we are really talking about are federally regulated wages. As my colleague, the Liberal critic, said, this does not apply to people who are flipping hamburgers and so forth. This is a very important point for us to make during today's debate.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I actually made that point in my speech. We will get it up on YouTube to have the full reference.

We talked about the initial impact of this being on those perhaps 40,000 federally regulated workers who now fall below this kind of minimum wage threshold we are talking about. As many as 100,000 workers who are earning around $12.50 an hour would also be impacted.

We do not speak of this in broad terms in its initial output, but it will have some impact on a broader societal level. If those who are working in an airport are receiving a new federal minimum wage, and the provincial standard is much lower just outside the airport, one would imagine that this might have some influence and impact on our provincial colleagues. However, that is their choice.

All I would say is this: If there are almost a million new minimum wage jobs that have been created since the government took over, an increase of 66%, that should give all of us pause as to where those new jobs are being created. This is also from a government that has brought in over 350,000 temporary foreign workers a year, which has also helped to suppress wages in Canada, according to various studies from very Conservative think tanks that have looked at it.

Time and again, the Conservatives talk about helping out Canadian families, yet time and again, the evidence is contrary. Why do we not do something that would actually and obviously help out working families in Canada? As my friend said, it would not be everyone immediately. That is why this is a moderate proposal. This is a proposal that we should make things just a little bit better for those who could use the hand up, and a lot of that help will come back to the larger Canadian economy.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to take this opportunity to speak to the House about the concept of privilege. As everyone knows, members of Parliament are afforded more privileges than other citizens.

We all function in a world of privilege. I, for one, have not always been privy to that reality. I have been an entrepreneur and a farmer; I have been wealthy and I have been poor. I know what money means to the middle class and the poor. It always upsets me when I talk to women on the telephone who tell me that they do not have enough money for their children to live comfortably.

I know that the workers who get up early each morning deserve every dollar they earn, and that is why we need to recognize that a $15 minimum wage for federal employees is not too much to ask. We know that women continue to earn less, yet we are still asking them to set money aside for retirement. How will they manage to do that on $10 an hour? Then they will be told that they do not know how to budget.

For me, $15 an hour is about decency. Housing costs are on the rise and Canadians families also have to deal with skyrocketing gas prices. We know what that means: it costs more to get to work. In an area such as Joliette, work is sometimes 30 minutes or an hour away. Some people will tell you that they travel three hours to Montreal. When the price of gas goes up, the cost of food goes up, too. Buying groceries is very expensive.

I have children. One has four girls between the ages of 12 and 24. Two of them are working. Imagine how much it costs to feed that family.

The Liberals abolished the federal minimum wage in 1996. Perhaps those who are sitting here today have never known what it was like to earn less than $15 an hour. Meanwhile, the GDP is going up and the government is bragging about strong economic growth, but salaries are stagnating.

In the past 35 years, 94% of the increase in income inequality has occurred under Liberal governments. This speaks volumes about that party's respect for the middle class. During that time, workers got up early and continued to slave away for every dollar they earned. However, between 1975 and 2013, the average minimum wage increased by only 1¢, and pennies are not even being made anymore.

In 2006, the Federal Labour Standards Review Commission recommended that the government reinstate the federal minimum wage and set it based on Statistics Canada's low-income cutoffs. This is not just any agency. The commission recommended that the minimum wage be established so that a person working full time would not be living below the poverty line.

Despite all the admiration that some members of this House have for the Chinese model, I think it is appalling to have to work full time and yet remain below the poverty line. Perhaps if people earned more, they would not need to use food banks at the end of the month.

Canada is a rich country, rich in resources, in brain power and in businesses. No one is going to convince me that we cannot pay full-time employees $15 an hour.

Job creation is a hot topic in politics these days. However, the government is not creating jobs directly outside the public service. We can encourage job creation by ensuring that our businesses grow and pay their fair share in society. We can also decide that, to set an example, we will now pay federally regulated employees a minimum wage of $15 an hour. That sets a good example and makes families more stable and happier.

The business community will get that money back because people who earn more will make more purchases.

As a result, I hope that everyone in the House who respects workers will join me in supporting my colleague's motion. In my opinion, it is really just common sense.

This motion deals with a serious problem: the distribution of wealth. The creation of wealth is important, but in my opinion, its redistribution is even more so. Consequently, supporting this motion is an affordable and responsible solution.

Very careful studies have shown that a slight increase in minimum wage does not have a major impact on employment. A moderate and incremental approach will therefore allow companies that do business with the federal government to adapt to this situation.

In terms of other benefits, an increase in the minimum wage can reduce staff turnover and thereby stabilize the operations of companies that do business with the government.

This is clearly important when we consider the fact that 820,000 people worked in federally regulated industries in 2008. Of these employees, over 40,000 were earning less than $12.49 an hour. These people are not rich. Finally, approximately 100,000 people were earning less than $15 an hour.

Women and young people are often among those who earn the least. Let us take young people for example. They need money to pay for rising tuition costs. Otherwise, they will accumulate debt that will force them to delay purchasing a home and starting a family. When all is said and done, helping these individuals supports the entire economy. It could even be profitable for the government since these people would pay more taxes.

The same could be said of women, immigrants and new graduates since the federal minimum wage affects many people who have a lot to offer and who work really hard.

Income inequality is growing at a worrisome rate, and I believe that we must take this crisis seriously. We owe it to our constituents to discuss issues that affect their lives here in the House.

For 35 years, without pause, the income of the top 1% of high earners has been skyrocketing, while the income of the average Canadian household has fallen. Such a significant inequality slows growth because people no longer have the means to stimulate the economy. It also prevents many people from contributing all that they could to our country.

The NDP believes that growth should be real, profitable, sustainable and beneficial to Canadians. In short, we are fighting for growth worthy of the 21st century.

When the gap between the wealthiest and the vast majority of Canadians began to widen in the 1990s and the early 2000s, the Liberal and Conservative governments did nothing to fix the problem. Maybe to them it was not a problem at all.

To the NDP, the growing inequality between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population is a real danger and we want to address it swiftly. That is what we will do in 2015.

I am joining my colleagues in calling on the Conservative government to shoulder its responsibilities towards hardworking Canadians and increase the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour.

In closing, I invite the House to admit that it is not just a privilege to represent our constituents, but a responsibility and that comes with its share of duties. Among those duties, we must recognize the seriousness of the problem of the growing gap between the rich and the poor and do something about it.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour and for Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate that the number of Canadians living below the low-income cut-off is now 8.8%. It is the lowest number in Canada's history.

I find it very unusual. Many years ago, when we moved from a federal system to aligning with the provincial system, the NDP supported the change. It talks a good talk, but it actually supported the original change. Then the NDP voted against the working income tax benefit. It voted against the reduction of the GST from 7% to 6% to 5%. It voted against pension income splitting for seniors. Now it supports flip-flopping and going back to something that it actually voted to change.

It is going to affect very few people, so if my hon. colleague cares about people on low income, how can she justify to her constituents her vote against all of those very important measures that we introduced, measures that have had a dramatic effect? How can she justify to her constituents voting against things like the working income tax benefit and pension splitting for seniors?

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand correctly, 8.8% of the population lives below the poverty line. That number is too high. It should be zero, period. There should not be any poverty in such a wealthy country.

We are often criticized for not voting for certain bills, but why do the Conservatives put everything into omnibus bills? Why do they limit how much time we have to discuss bills?

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the point has been brought up in each of the NDP members' speeches that the Liberals abolished this piece of legislation in 1996. Let us be right on here. They said it had been a while since there had been an increase in federal employees' minimum wage. Yes, the Liberals at that time had been in power for two and a half years and were looking at a way to get the increase. At the time, Audrey McLaughlin and the NDP supported that motion, as did Elsie Wayne, as did Jean Charest. Those are the facts.

Let us have a truthful debate. This very modest measure would help very few, but let us tell the truth to each other.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the federal minimum wage was abolished in 1996.

Today, I think we must absolutely help people. When I go door to door and meet people, they tell me they are sick of living in poverty. We must help employees under federal jurisdiction. Increasing wages to $15 an hour in five years is not a lot to ask to eliminate poverty.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Joliette for her very moving and heartfelt speech.

I know about this first-hand in Beauport—Limoilou. The figures from the Direction de santé publique de la Capitale-Nationale show that my riding has a concentration of poverty. When income is too low—whether we are talking employment income or other income—this significantly impedes a person's ability to find a place in society and to find another job.

Could my colleague describe how an increase in the minimum wage could help these people regain their dignity?

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

If we were to increase the minimum wage to $15, people would be able to regain their dignity, be proud to go to work and not feel as though they are essentially modern-day slaves, when both members of a couple have to work for a measly wage to make ends meet.

If the federal minimum wage were a little higher and the provinces and territories were thus encouraged to increase their own minimum wage, we might have fewer health problems. People would be able to eat better. They could buy fruits and vegetables, which they cannot always do right now. A family cannot buy four apples at $1.30 a pound.

I am sure that a better wage would lead to better physical, mental and psychological health and would reduce violence in our society.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Brandon—Souris.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to participate in the discussion of the motion put forward by the hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, proposing that the federal minimum wage be raised. For a number of very good reasons already mentioned, I do not support the motion. Not the least of those reasons is the simple fact that since 1996, the federal minimum wage has been paid to the provincial and territorial minimum wage in which the employee is working, so why should we change it now so that employees in the federal jurisdiction can have a higher minimum rate of pay than those in the provincial areas of jurisdiction?

The opposition's argument is that increasing the rate on the federal side will make the provincial governments fall into line and raise their rates to catch up, but the federal government cannot just tell the provincial governments to raise their minimum rates, nor can we be certain that the provinces would follow suit if the federal rate were raised. That is an area of provincial jurisdiction.

Perhaps more important is the fact that the greater expertise in the area, particularly with respect to knowledge and understanding of local and regional conditions, lies with the provincial governments. In fact, provincial governments, for the most part, closely study and analyze the whole range of local and regional issues, including poverty levels, unemployment rates, job opportunities, average wage levels, and so on, before making changes to the minimum wage level.

Hon. members may know that over the past few years all provinces and territories have increased their minimum wage rates, in many cases after reviews by minimum wage boards or independent experts. In fact, several provinces have legislation stating that minimum wages must be reviewed every one or two years. Even those provinces without legislative requirements tend to adjust their minimum wage rates on a regular basis. In fact, Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan have all announced that they will increase their minimum wage on October 1, 2014. A recent Statistics Canada study has shown that the average growth in the minimum wage across Canada in the past decade has outstripped the rate of inflation.

I also want to point out that increasing minimum wage levels is not the only tool, and not a particularly sharp one, that governments can use to help low-income individuals and families to improve earnings and their standards of living. On the federal government side, these tools include billions of dollars in benefits given to individuals and families every year. I am referring to programs like the Canada child tax benefit; the Canada pension plan; the guaranteed income supplement; the EI program; maternity, parental, sickness and compassionate care benefits; the GST/HST credit for those with low incomes, and many more.

I list these few examples just to make the point that there is a great deal more to how we support and protect Canadian workers and families than just a band-aid short-term stunt adjusting the minimum wage. Economic growth and job creation, the top priorities of this government, are what have helped us build a strong and growing economy. They are what will continue to sustain us in the years ahead. Indeed, we are doing much better in that regard than many of our trading partners.

Since the recession a few years ago, we have had steady job growth, low interest rates, and growth rates that are the envy of many other countries. We believe that getting the economic essentials right will continue to keep us on the right track for even greater levels of prosperity and growth in the years to come.

As we all know, the best way to help improve Canadian workers' income is through the creation of good, well-paying jobs. One good example of how we can make adjustments to improve economic prospects is the recent announcement by the Minister of Finance of the small business job credit. This new credit will effectively lower EI premiums for small businesses by 15% over the next two years. According to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the credit will create 25,000 person-years of employment.

The minister also confirmed that in 2017, EI premiums would go down from the current $1.88 per $100 of earnings to $1.47 per $100 of earnings. This is excellent news for both workers and small business employers.

Our government will also continue to make specific changes and adjustments to a variety of programs to support workers and their families. Chief among them is making sure that all workers who come under federal jurisdiction have a safe and healthy workplace, equal opportunity for hiring and advancement, and the right to engage in a fair and balanced bargaining process.

Since being sworn in, our government has steadily increased occupational health and safety protections and improved working conditions for all employees under federal jurisdiction. This government implemented the wage earners protection program that protects the wages, vacation pay, severance pay and termination pay owing to workers whose employers go bankrupt or into receivership. This government brought in the Keeping Canada's Economy and Jobs Growing Act, which changed the Canada Labour Code to ensure employees who lose their jobs cannot be deprived of severance pay just because they happen to be entitled to a pension. This government brought in the Helping Families in Need Act that allows employees under federal jurisdiction to take unpaid leave in many different circumstances to care for their families. It also provides for flexibility for parents who need to interrupt their maternity and paternity leave for different reasons.

All of this is to say that we have offered assistance to low-income Canadians as a topic that is broader and much larger than just a discussion of minimum wage levels. Therefore, I urge all members to consider this and all of the other issues that I have mentioned and vote against the motion.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech. I had a chance to spend a few weeks in Australia this summer. I went to restaurants, and lo and behold, there was no tipping. I asked why there was no tipping. They said it was because they pay their people more. I found out this morning from my colleague from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek that the minimum wage in Australia is $17.45 an hour. If this can be done in Australia, where its people are making a half-decent living, why can we not do it here?

My second question involves small business. Would the member not agree that one of the best guarantees to assist small business is to have people in the community who have money to spend? In other words, if we were to increase the minimum wage, the research has shown that most of this money would stay in the communities and that would help guarantee the survival of the small businesses in the small rural communities that I represent. I would like to get his comments on this.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the challenge that we have in a country as large as Canada is the fact that there are regional pockets of economy. The economy of the Atlantic provinces is quite different than the economy that is happening in Alberta. They call it the job “market” for a reason. It is because when there is high demand the wages go up, when there is low demand the wages are lower. That is just because of the demand. Therefore, it would skew the economies of those areas where there are some challenges with the economy and job opportunities. This is why it is important to allow the provinces to make these adjustments, because they understand the dynamics of their regions and can adjust that minimum wage to reflect the actuality of the economy that is in their region.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I just heard my colleague opposite's comments that the reason we ought not to establish a national standard for federally regulated industries in terms of minimum wage is that the cost of living and other factors vary depending on where one is in the country. Is he espousing or putting forward the idea that MPs should be paid differently depending on the cost of living in their areas? We are clearly federally regulated, given that we are in the House of Commons. The logical corollary of his argument is that we, as legislators, ought to be paid differently based on the economic reality of the regions we represent. Is that what he is suggesting?

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is an interesting prospect.

Quite frankly, if you look at the challenges or even the dynamics in the province of British Columbia, which I am from, it is interesting that the economy of what we call the mainland of Vancouver and Victoria Island areas are quite a bit different than the rural areas of the interior. This is always a challenge that we have in our province.

The fact is that the housing costs in Vancouver and in the mainland are significantly higher than those of the interior. So there are adjustments, and you actually do see the pay levels of a lot of the employees, especially in the private sector, being somewhat lower in the rural area simply because of those contributing factors of the cost of living.

I definitely think it is important that we allow those decisions to be made by the provinces.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Before I resume debate, I want to remind all hon. members to direct their comments to the Chair rather than directly to their colleagues.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Brandon—Souris.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege to rise in the House today to respond to my fellow member's motion and debate the NDP on an actual policy proposal, unlike the third party who, unfortunately, have a habit of talking in platitudes.

The hon. member is asking the House to approve a hike in the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. As the NDP knows, the federal minimum wage is pegged to the minimum wage of the province or territory in which the work is carried out. Provinces and territories are best able to assess and respond to the requirements of the local labour markets and establish whatever they deem an appropriate wage. That is why I cannot support this motion.

Allow me to explain why I do not support this motion.

Our government is focused on improving our country's economic prospects and performance. We remain focused on jobs, growth and long-term prosperity and policies that support good, high-paying, quality jobs. Our record of supporting Canadians' economic well-being is the envy of the developed world. We are proud of the over 1.1 million net new jobs that have been added since the worst of the recession, and two-thirds of all jobs created have been in high-wage industries. We have helped over six million youth obtain the skills and experience needed to obtain better jobs.

Under our Conservative government, Canadian families at all income levels have seen increased wages of about 10% in their real after-tax incomes, and the most vulnerable Canadians have seen an increase of 14%. In fact, the number of Canadians living below the low-income cut-off is now at its lowest level ever. Additionally, the low-income rates have improved by 20% for female, single-parent homes.

These are just some of the reasons why I do not support this NDP motion.

Another reason is that the Canadian Labour Code ensures that workers in federally regulated businesses receive a minimum wage that is matched to the provincial or territorial general minimum wage rate where they are employed. The minimum wage is adjusted automatically whenever a province or territory increases its general minimum wage. Our government believes that the provinces and territories are best able to assess and respond to the requirements of their local labour markets and to establish appropriate minimum wage rates.

I commend the member's desire to ensure all Canadians are paid a good wage for the work that they do. The fact is that the proposed solution is merely a band-aid that would help very few Canadians in the short term and would potentially put the jobs of many more Canadians at risk in the longer term.

If my hon. colleague wants to support higher wages for Canadians, why does he oppose Canada's oil sands which are providing high-paying unionized jobs for hundreds of thousands of Canadians? If my colleague wants to support higher wages for Canadians, why does he oppose the Keystone pipeline which will provide high-wage jobs for thousands of Canadians? If my colleague wants to support higher wages, why does he oppose the reforms that the Minister of Employment and Social Development has made to the temporary foreign worker program to put Canadians first?

However, there are many additional reasons why supporting this motion is simply bad public policy.

According to the Department of Labour, there is a growing body of evidence that increasing minimum wages in an abrupt manner could have negative effects on the employment of youth and inexperienced workers, the very people who need work experience to move on to better paying jobs.

Studies suggest that increasing minimum wage rates as a means to reduce poverty is a very blunt tool, which sometimes can hurt the very people it is aimed at helping.

Finally, the focus on minimum wages ignores the fact that they do nothing to help self-employed Canadians or persons who are facing unemployment or underemployment. Our government is focused on long-term fixes, not short-term band-aids.

We recognize the need for all Canadian workers to have jobs that provide them with a good living wage. Jobs paying well over minimum wage are available, with many more to come, and we are continually helping Canadians get them.

Let me discuss the government's skills agenda.

With our current skills shortage in certain regions and sectors, hundreds of thousands of highly paid jobs will available over the next 10 years for those who have the skills for which employers are looking. Canada is going to need more than one million people in the skilled trades to work on major initiatives in the mining and energy industries. Even if a relatively small fraction of these prospective investments proceed, we are talking about the creation of hundreds of thousands of high-paying, high-quality jobs, primarily in the skilled trades and vocations.

To help Canadians get the skills they need for these jobs, we are investing in the skilled trades through a range of measures.

For example, we are ensuring that apprentices get the financial support they need to complete their training. The apprenticeship incentive grants and the apprenticeship completion grants together provide up to $4,000 in support to apprentices in a Red Seal trade. In fact, the Government of Canada recently celebrated awarding $500,000 apprenticeship grants across the country. We also increased measures such as the Canada apprentice loan, which will provide apprentices with interest-free loans of up to $4,000 to complete their training. We have also made it easier for apprentices to find employment where they can gain on-the-job experience in conjunction with the apprenticeship job creation tax credit for employers.

Another key pillar in our plan to help Canadians get good jobs in the long term is the Canada job grant, an innovative, employer-driven approach to help Canadians gain the skills and training they need to fill available jobs.

We have negotiated these arrangements with provincial and territorial governments to put a greater emphasis on ensuring employers are involved in training decisions. By involving employers in training, we are ensuring people will be trained to get a real job at the end of that training period.

We have now finalized agreements with all of the provinces and territories. Six provinces are now accepting applications from employers with a plan to train people for a job they require. This is a critical step in ensuring employers can find the employees they need to keep our businesses open and growing, and it is a critical step in ensuring Canadians are equipped and prepared for the jobs that are out there.

Through these and other measures our government is working hard to strengthen the labour market, support workers and employers and ensure Canadians have the skills they need to find jobs that provide them with a good standard of living.

This is why I will not be supporting this ill-advised motion that does nothing to help the majority of Canadians get better-paying jobs. Our plan is working, and if New Democrats were serious, they would have supported our budgets that have been improving the lives and livelihood of all Canadians.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I find it funny when the Conservatives use the argument that we need to respect provincial jurisdictions.

If we have learned anything in recent years, it is that the current Prime Minister will go down in history as the prime minister who never met with his provincial counterparts on any occasion.

The Conservatives are telling us that the provinces and territories are in the best position to set the minimum wage. However, when the time comes to build a pipeline across the country, we are all one country.

People in Newfoundland, British Columbia and back home in Laurentides—Labelle all use the same dollar. Oddly enough, the cost of living is the same when it comes to the basics. The disparity will not disappear on its own. That is wishful thinking, and it is almost as bad as the Liberal leader talking about a budget that balances itself.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of my hon. colleague is right. We have one Canadian dollar, we are one country, but we also have ten provinces and three territories. His argument goes off the rails when we look at the fact that there is a cost-of-living difference in the different regions of our country, if not, within each of those provinces and territories, as I and my colleague from B.C. pointed out earlier.

I have personal experience in dealing with the Manitoba government. We have looked at opportunities there and made other suggestions besides the minimum wage increases that Manitoba has had. However, to do the leap that New Democrats have looked at to take it to $15 across Canada, as I said in my discussion and presentation earlier, is a situation where it may provide impacts deleterious to what the member is asking and may impact negatively on the creation of jobs in those communities.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was surprised to hear in the debate on a motion that deals with federal workers and minimum wage the member suggest that the official opposition, and far be it for me to defend my colleagues in the New Democratic Party, opposes the oil sands. I have never heard that. Neither does the Green Party oppose the oil sands or the workers there.

The member for Brandon—Souris went on to ask why the NDP opposed the Keystone pipeline. As a Canadian who opposes the Keystone pipeline because I do not think it is in our economic interest, I am joined in that by the unions that represent the workers in northern Alberta, being Unifor, the former Communications, Energy and Paperworkers union.

There is a real disconnect here when the Conservatives want to believe the Keystone pipeline is somehow good for jobs. The people in northern Alberta know that shipping out raw product is never good for jobs. What is good for jobs is processing it in Alberta.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, what I was referring to was the hundreds of thousands of high-paying and in many cases union jobs that would be available to workers in Canada. We continue to promote the growth of those jobs. I use those as two examples of the impact that could be seen as negative from the implementation of the program proposed here.

However, many of those jobs are high paying already. It is an example of the training we need in our community colleges and universities to have skilled labour to put into those areas. That is why we are looking at the Canada jobs grant and a number of other apprenticeship programs that I outlined to improve the ability to have people who can work in those fields.

These are only two major job areas that I mentioned. There are many others. I would urge my colleagues to come on side for the development of many of those projects because they will positively impact on the Canadian economy and the potential for high-paying jobs for many of our sons and daughters in our country.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Acadie—Bathurst.

First of all, let me say how excited I am to be back here in the House and dealing with a critical issue in our very first opposition day motion. We are trying to address income inequality, which has grown in a way that is unacceptable in Canada.

Right now, in Canada, the top 10% own over 50% of the wealth, yet we have the fastest-growing poor. A very high number of young people are living well below the poverty line. A lot of women are living below the poverty line. I come from a province where child poverty is very high, unacceptably high.

In a country like Canada, child poverty is totally unacceptable. No matter what political stripes members wear, every person in this room should be committed to reducing the gap between the rich and the poor and to raising the income level of those living well below the poverty line.

That is what this motion does. It is not rocket science. I keep hearing people say that it only affects a few. Whether it affects 40,000 or 100,000, and I think the number is closer to 100,000, for those workers it will make a great deal of difference when they go grocery shopping or have to pay their rent. It is going to make a great deal of difference to young workers as well as to children, because they will not be struggling in the same way they are now.

In my province of British Columbia, the minimum wage at the moment sits at just over $10. Let us just think about it. Even if people were to work 40 hours a week, the amount they would end up with annually would still have them living below the poverty line, and most of those people are working hard.

I have heard from my constituents in Newton—North Delta that many of them—hard-working people living in Canada, both citizens and permanent residents—are having to work two full-time jobs, or the equivalent thereof, in order to try to make ends meet. I have met with mothers who told me what it is like to see their children only for a very short time, because in order to feed their children they have to go out and work that second job.

When we know that the price of housing is where it is, all over Canada and specifically in the Lower Mainland, we can imagine that many of these people are spending a lot of their income on basic housing.

I have some statistics from Surrey. The national household survey showed that over 15% of people in Surrey are categorized as low income. Almost 19% of children living in Surrey are living in low-income households. One in three Surrey renters spends well over 30% of their income on rent.

This move by the NDP is not going to make the sky fall. Listening to some of my colleagues across the way, people would think that the sky is going to fall and all the jobs are going to leave Canada. I will tell members that with close to 350,000 temporary foreign workers here, the Conservative government has done more to give away jobs that people living in Canada should be doing than has happened at any other time.

I was in Edmonton last week, which is not exactly a hotbed of socialism, and I met with skilled workers. Fully qualified iron workers, boilermakers, and many other skilled trade workers cannot get jobs. They are seeing those jobs being filled by workers who have been brought in, and they are not always being paid the same wages.

Let us see who the federal minimum wage is going to impact.

It would apply to federally regulated sectors, such as railways, transport, banks and financial services, and telecommunications. I know many people in my riding who are working in the telecommunications sector, and they are not making $15 an hour, no matter what somebody tries to tell us. It would also affect people working in broadcasting, and so on.

I know the Conservative government has an allergy. It has an allergy to science. It has an allergy to evidence-based decision-making, and it definitely does not like to listen to experts. Even when staff within the bureaucracy, within government, are giving it advice, it often likes to look the other way.

The government's own federal labour standards review in 2006 recommended that the federal government reinstate the federal minimum wage and benchmark it to Statistics Canada's low-income cut-offs. That recommendation is very reasonable. It comes from people who have knowledge and who are experts in this area in many ways. The review also proposed that the wage should be set at a level to ensure that no one who works full time would end up living below the poverty line.

We hear a lot of rhetoric in this room. We often hear that the sky is falling, but every person living in Canada has a right, a reasonable expectation that if they are working about 40 hours a week, they should not be living below the poverty line. That is just not good for us, either socially or in relation to mental health or in relation to the impact on families.

I urge my colleagues to support this motion. New Democrats believe that Canadians who work hard and play by the rules should be able to make a decent living. We are not talking about raising their wages to $50 an hour. We are not talking about enabling people to drive a Mercedes-Benz. We are talking about raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

As motions come up, we do a little bit of research. I found that over the last 40 years, the average minimum wage has only received a one-cent raise, even though our economy grew significantly. That is one cent, and I mean that in real terms, when we look at the cost of living and everything else. Again, that is one cent over 40 years, yet the number of people who have grown their wealth and the huge tax relief to corporations have taken a great deal of money out of the economy as well.

Once again, is this motion reasonable? Absolutely.

As I was in my riding, as I am sure everyone else was, going door to door and meeting with constituents, even the people who make a decent living and the people in the business community were very concerned about labour instability and how people are not sticking with a job. Many of them, when we talked to them about the minimum wage, did a lot of head-nodding. When we think about it, it is because they live in those communities and they know that it is not possible to survive in a reasonable way on less than that $15 an hour. Many of our minimum wage workers in B.C., as I said, are at $10.25, and that is just not good.

Others will say we should just leave it all to the provinces, but there is a jurisprudence. There are provincial and federal areas. What we are talking about here are federal and federally regulated workplaces or areas, and that is why telecommunications is included in this measure. Saying that it is only going to impact fewer than 100,000 people is not a reason to say that we should not do it. That is the most asinine reasoning that I have heard since I have been in this House.

I would urge everybody to support this motion.