Debates of Sept. 22nd, 2014

Species at Risk Act

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I have a second petition which is focused on the Species at Risk Act.

As Canadians enjoy, protect and respect the diversity of wildlife, the habitats, natural resources, the ecosystems must remain flourishing, but the Species at Risk Act does not effectively achieve its goal.

These folks have about 10 suggestions that might improve the act, including encouraging voluntary implementation, and fair and equitable compensation for all landowners.

Conflict Minerals

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have petitions from Canadians from right across the country.

The petitioners want the Conservative government to join with other governments to stop the spread of rape as a weapon of war in the Congo by dealing with conflict minerals.

They ask that all parliamentarians get behind my bill, Bill C-486, to stop the revenues that go to the militias that do horrendous things in the eastern Congo. They also ask that we support those who are affected by gender violence.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition from residents in and around Guelph calling on the Government of Canada to end trade in conflict minerals by adopting Bill C-486, the conflict minerals act.

The petitioners call on the government to adopt the hon. member for Ottawa Centre's bill as a means to end conflict in places like the Democratic Republic of Congo, where over 5 million deaths and untold suffering are being financed by illegally mined minerals, by ending trade in conflict minerals.

Criminal Code

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a number of petitions with hundreds of signatures on them.

I have a timely petition regarding the current laws related to prostitution that have been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada.

The petitioners recognize that a high percentage of prostitutes are forced into the trade and are trafficked, whereas the demand for sex with woman and children is now not addressed in legislation and profits from that sex trade are also not addressed in the Criminal Code.

Canadians ask that our country not be lawless when it comes to prostitution and human trafficking, that the House of Commons legislate such that it be a criminal offence to purchase sex with a woman, man or child, and that it be a criminal offence for pimps, madams and others to profit from the proceed of that trade.

Canada Post

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of constituents in Newton—North Delta, thousands who have signed a petition opposing the cuts that have occurred to postal services. They are very upset with the end of door-to-door mail service for Canadians, the increase in postal rates and the closing of postal offices across the country.

The petitioners call on the Government of Canada to stop these devastating cuts to our postal service because of the impact they have on our communities' safety, as well as on those who are most vulnerable, our seniors and those with disabilities.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, continuing the theme of Canada Post, I, too, have a petition. There are 750 names from throughout central Newfoundland, with the south coast to Grand Falls—Windsor being the major population centre. Their door-to-door service is being eliminated. Therefore, they are quite upset by this.

The petitioners call on the Government of Canada to reverse the cuts to services announced by Canada Post and look instead for ways to innovate in areas such as postal banking. They also ask for all the smaller communities to be restored to full service by Canada Post.

Criminal Code

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have petitions here from Canadians who acknowledge that certain prostitution laws have been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. However, as petitioners, they do not want our country to be lawless when it comes to prostitution and human trafficking.

The petitioners call on the House of Commons to make it a criminal offence to purchase sex with a man, woman or child. They ask the House to move forward quickly on this matter.

Canada Post

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table a petition that draws the attention of the House of Commons to the fact that Canada Post's plan for reduced service, including the elimination of home mail delivery for a large majority of my constituents in LaSalle—Émard, will really have a negative impact on people.

This petition has been signed by hundreds of members of my constituency in LaSalle—Émard, and I am very pleased to table it today.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased as well to have several petitions on the same issue of Canada Post. Canadians are very concerned about the loss of door-to-door delivery.

Therefore, the petitioners call upon the Government of Canada to take the necessary legislative and regulatory steps to immediately reverse the implementation of the recently announced service rollbacks and cost increases proposed by the Canada Post Corporation.

The petitioners further call upon the Government of Canada to formally oppose any future steps to privatize the Canada Post Corporation.

Foreign Investment

[Bruce Hyer, Green, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I continue to receive many hundreds of petitions about the Canada–China FIPA, and the concern about the fact that it will be in effect irreversibly for decades, is likely to cause billions of dollars in compensation to Chinese firms and will undermine the sovereignty of Canada.

The petitioners ask that the House do whatever is possible to ensure that our sovereignty over Canadian law remains in effect.

The Environment

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present this petition regarding climate change, our most pressing environmental issue and perhaps the defining issue of our generation. Evidence shows that with climate change, extreme events such as heat waves and precipitation extremes will increase.

The petitioners call upon the government to accept the science of climate change, table a comprehensive climate change plan, identify the current value of government buildings and infrastructure assets, and the cost to climate-proof these assets.

Canada Broadcasting Corporation and Canada Post

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition signed by residents of Winnipeg North.

The petitioners are concerned that the government cuts and changes, both to CBC and Canada Post, will have a negative impact on the abilities of these two crown corporations.

The petitioners call upon the House of Commons to take the necessary action to support both CBC and Canada Post as two healthy crown corporations well into the future.

The Environment

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today with three petitions, two of which are on the same topic.

The first petition is from petitioners primarily from Burnaby, British Columbia and Parksville.

The petitioners call on the government to take action on the question of fracking, particularly to ensure that there be a complete list of all those chemicals that are used in fracking. Environment Canada still does not have that list. They also ask for a comprehensive environmental assessment and a moratorium until we know the answers to those questions.

The second petitions are on the subject of the day here in the House of Commons, on the climate crisis. The petitions come primarily from residents in Burnaby, Vancouver and in my own riding.

The petitioners call on the House to take action to achieve the targets and put in place a climate plan for what is required to reduce emissions to at least 80% below 1990 levels by the year 2050.

Citizenship and Immigration

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to present a petition that calls upon the government to rescind the government cuts in the interim federal health program and thereby end this barrier to care for refugees and the attendant confusion for health care professionals and refugee-serving organizations.

I do not always indicate whether I agree with petitions that I present, but on this one I am 100% in agreement. This is an entirely mean-spirited act by the government against the most vulnerable people in our country.

Questions on the Order Paper

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Speaker's Ruling

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Before providing my decision on the selection of report stage motions for Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, I would like to address the concerns raised and the supplementary information provided earlier today by the hon. member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, concerning report stage Motion No. 3, standing in his name on the notice paper.

I would like to thank the honourable member for having raised this matter.

As mentioned by the member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, he also did write to me to urge that I select his report stage motion on the basis of exceptional significance.

I wish to reassure the hon. member that I have carefully reviewed all the relevant contextual and substantive circumstances surrounding the matter. While each case is different, and occasionally there are exceptional circumstances that merit the selection of certain report stage motions, ultimately I must be guided by the procedural practice relating to the selection of report stage motions.

House of Commons Procedure and Practice sets the following general principle with respect to the selection of report stage motions. At page 783 it states:

As a general principle, the Speaker seeks to forestall debate on the floor of the House which is simply a repetition of the debate in committee…the Speaker will normally only select motions in amendment that could not have been presented in committee.

More guidance as to the selection of report stage motions can be found in Standing Orders 76(5) and 76.1(5). The note accompanying those standing orders states, in part:

A motion previously defeated in committee, will only be selected if the Speaker judges it to be of such exceptional significance as to warrant a further consideration at report stage.

As evidenced by his first having written a detailed letter, and now having raised the matter again in the form of a point of order, the member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca clearly feels that the circumstances surrounding the committee's consideration of his amendment are exceptional, and on that basis, the House as a whole should decide whether Bill C-13 should be amended in the fashion he is proposing. While I understand his argument, I would remind him that the Chair cannot make decisions on selection based on the likely outcome of the vote.

As I stated in the decision on December 12, 2012, page 13224 in the Debates, in relation to a point of order raised by the government House leader:

The Chair is and will continue to be guided by procedural imperatives in all of its decisions, not by somehow substituting the Speaker's prediction of the likely outcome of a vote expressed by the House itself.

His belief that the outcome might be different in the House from what it was in committee, or that a certain foreknowledge exists as to the will of the House on a given question, is not sufficient grounds for the Chair to determine that exceptional circumstances exist that would warrant the selection of this particular amendment.

Furthermore, I would note that Bill C-279, An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code (gender identity) at present stands referred to a Senate committee. The Criminal Code has not yet been amended in the manner that Bill C-279 proposes. Presumably, as both Bill C-279 and Bill C-13 advance through the legislative process, Parliament will, in due course, choose which approach it prefers.

With respect to the existing practice relating to report stage, I would remind members that since 2001, report stage has undergone a significant evolution so as not to repeat debate that already occurred in committee. As such, the Speaker is empowered to decline to put report stage motions that would be tantamount to a repetition of the work that was already done in committee.

Were I to select Motion No. 3 on the basis of the arguments put forward by the member, I fear it could lead exactly to a situation that our report stage practice was designed to avoid, namely a repetition of the debate that occurred in committee on this matter. Therefore, I must inform the member that Motion No. 3 will not be selected for consideration at report stage.

There are nine motions in amendment standing on the notice paper for the report stage of Bill C-13.

Motion No. 3, as indicated previously, as well as Motion No. 6 will not be selected as they are identical to amendments defeated in committee.

I shall now propose Motions Nos. 1, 2, 4, 5 and 7 to 9 to the House.

Motions in Amendment

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

moved:

That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting the short title.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

moved:

That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 3.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

moved:

That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 20.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

moved:

That Bill C-13, in Clause 20, be amended by adding after line 29 on page 14 the following: “(2) For greater certainty, nothing in this Act shall be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from the protections for personal information affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada decision in R. v. Spencer 2014 SCC 43.”

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

moved:

Motion No. 7

That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 23.

Motion No. 8

That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 26.

Motion No. 9

That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 47.

Mr. Speaker, this morning we debated the bill on prostitution. This afternoon, we turn to the bill on cyberbullying. I am almost tempted to start out the same way. This bill also garnered a lot of attention and caused quite a stir. I received many comments from my constituents in Gatineau about this. These people had the same concerns I did. That told me that I was on the right track when it came to the position that the NDP and I took on this file.

I believe it is important to reiterate that many people take the government at its word and believe that it can have a positive impact on the lives of the young people who have suffered all kinds of bullying, their parents and everyone who has been affected by bullying.

As we all know, Bill C-13 was created in the wake of tragic situations involving certain Canadians. Young people committed suicide. Suicide can happen anywhere, in the armed forces and in the general population. Bullying is not a new concept. It has existed for many a moon. I think that we need to find real solutions to offer help instead of playing politics.

From the outset, our approach was not to hold up Bill C-13, but to allow it to take its course. We wanted to be sure that there was an in-depth study in committee and that various witnesses would be able to share their point of view on the bill.

The bill is known as the protecting Canadians from online crime act. It contains 47 clauses and is 53 pages long, but it does not even touch on cyberbullying or online crime. Rather, Bill C-13 addresses the distribution of images, one very small part of bullying. The rest of the bill addresses issues as varied as immunity for Internet service providers, the concept of peace officers and public officers, telecommunications theft and so on. Bill C-13 covers a lot of ground.

We shared these concerns with the minister, the Attorney General of Canada. We thought it would be wiser to split the bill in two so that we could tackle the image distribution issue head-on since it was not as controversial. As for the touchier violation of privacy issue, there are tools that the minister makes a point of talking about regularly, saying that we cannot do one without doing the other. He would have us believe that there are currently no tools available, but there are. We wanted to make sure that what we were doing on that score was completely reasonable. However, the government turned a deaf ear.

Naturally, witnesses told us exactly the same thing and said they were very concerned. Many aspects of Bill C-13 resemble Bill C-30, even though the government agreed to some changes and realized it could not go any further with that particular vision. It did make some minor concessions. The government tried to address cyberbullying via image distribution and the highly publicized cases of Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd and others who did the worst thing imaginable. Seeing no way out of the problems they faced, they saw that as the only solution. That really breaks my heart.

Everyone will agree that there is nothing worse than thinking that suicide is the only way to solve a problem or the only way out. As a society, we are failing miserably. In my opinion, claiming that Bill C-13 will save young lives is laying it on rather thick.

I do not want to dwell on the issue, but even Amanda Todd's mother told the committee that she did not want people's privacy to be invaded in order to keep others safe. That was not necessarily the objective. Once again, the government is failing to be transparent. Like Sophia Petrillo-Weinstock in the television show Golden Girls, I am tempted to say, “Picture it”.

Thursday, June 12 was the last day set aside for the clause-by-clause examination of Bill C-13. On Friday, June 13, the Supreme Court of Canada was scheduled to render its decision in Spencer v. The Queen. This case dealt with the matter of police access to personal information. Several witnesses who appeared before the committee said that this case would definitely have an impact. At the very least, the government should have exercised caution and waited for the Supreme Court ruling.

Some believe that the committee merely conducted a concept study, but that was not the case. The government was producing legislation. The government bill is 53 pages long and we examined it. Then, the committee heard from witnesses with regard to the various aspects of the bill that they were concerned with. For some, it was the distribution of images. For others, it was the violation of privacy and technology. We heard from a whole slew of witnesses who were concerned about very different aspects of the bill.

The people who were dealing with the part related to the interception of data and the gathering of information without a warrant or court authorization felt it was important to wait for the Spencer ruling. After it was tabled, some experts indicated that the June 13 ruling contradicted certain aspects of the government's bill. That is what we were trying to avoid. We had therefore asked the government to wait.

Time and time again in committee, I asked whether we should not wait until June 13. Should we not read the ruling? Should we not seek advice from staff at the Department of Justice who could explain the ruling to us and tell us whether or not it would have an impact?

In law, if you put five lawyers in a room, they would not all say the same thing. In the House, not everyone is a lawyer. Furthermore, even amongst those of us who are lawyers, not everyone is a specialist in every subject. That is why we study things in greater depth in committee, come back to the House with our recommendations, and then vote with full knowledge of the facts.

At this very moment, regardless of my personal opinion and the fact that several specialists said that the ruling in R. v. Spencer goes against many aspects of the bill, I am quite worried. If there is one area in which I do not want to see any glaring errors, that is justice. Justice must be applied correctly and equally across the board.

All that explains why we changed our position. We supported the bill at second reading, but all of our fears regarding this government bill were confirmed in committee.

It seems that the government is using this bill to try to score political points rather than make any meaningful changes. The evidence is quite clear. The fact is, the government voted against the motion moved by my hon. colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, M-385, regarding cyberbullying. Furthermore, it also voted against the bill introduced by my hon. colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Bill C-540.

Basically, if you ask me, everything is crystal clear.

There is also Bill C-279, introduced by my hon. colleague who delivered a speech on it this morning.

This all tells me that this bill is more about politics than anything of real substance.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate very much the comments of my friend opposite.

I particularly appreciate her expressions of condolences and compassion for the victims of cyberbullying. She was right to say those things. At the same time, she said she was taking a non-partisan approach to the bill.

Much of what my friend says is undeniably true. This is a complex bill. It does go very much beyond simply the issue of cyberbullying and the government's efforts to respond to this very real problem that has affected the lives of so many people in Canada, particularly young people.

However, in her reading of Spencer, she somehow would leave the House, and Canadians, with the impression that this creates new police powers or this is somehow going to lead to further breaches of privacy. Nothing could be further from the truth. What Spencer did in fact was confirm the fact that no new powers were going to be bestowed upon the police. What we are attempting to do is to very much ensure that the police do have, with lawful access, the ability to protect people online, to protect seniors, to protect young people, to protect businesses from flagrant abuses or breaches of privacy that allow criminality to happen online. The bill is very much an attempt to modernize those practices and also to ensure that people's privacy is protected.

We, of course, will respect the Spencer decision. We believe that the bill does meet the balance that is called for in the effort to give police powers to investigate, but at the same time to protect privacy rights. We believe, as well, that there is still ample opportunity to examine the bill in a meaningful way.

I do appreciate the fact that we have had a debate in the House of Commons now and that there will be debate in the other place. However, it is important that we continue to move forward and make progress in this critical area where people's lives are literally at stake.