Debates of Dec. 9th, 2015

Supplementary Estimates (B), 2015-16

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the campaign commitment was in the order of $200 million, with a large portion of that being spent on the processing that is taking place overseas.

As the hon. member knows, the campaign commitment includes a large number of refugees. We are very committed to bringing in what is the largest number of refugees represented by the group of Five Eyes nations, for example. We are presenting our policy as an example to the world, including all of the western world, in what we are providing.

To directly answer the member's point, the costing differentiation is a result of the investigations we have undertaken on how to facilitate the processing and to take into account a concern raised many times by the members opposite.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, would my colleague the parliamentary secretary characterize the Liberal platform as not fully costed, given that it did not include the entire commitment for this refugee initiative?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I did not understand the question. Was the question did we characterize the platform as not fully costed?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, to re-emphasize the point, given that this expenditure exceeds what was put in the Liberal platform, was the platform not fully costed?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the platform has been fully costed at all points in time. Perhaps that is a source of amusement to my friend opposite, but that is the accurate truth.

When we decide to roll out a program, we find that there are expenses that may arise that we may not have anticipated. We have costed—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Order. The hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill on a point of order.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have other questions. That was a very brief question. It was a yes or no question. I only took five seconds and he was going on with platitudes.

My question to my colleague is this. If he is defining a fully costed platform as something that is well over what was budgeted in the platform, perhaps he does not understand what fully costed is. However, I will continue.

The settlement and refugee assistance program, or RAP, assists immigrants and refugees to overcome barriers and better participate in social, cultural, civic, and economic life in Canada. Most of these services are designed and delivered by service-provider organizations. These organizations apply for funds by a call for proposals. Today the minister announced that the new contribution agreements would be put on hold until 2017 due to the government's Syrian refugee initiative.

Yesterday, when the minister said that other immigration services would not be affected by the refugee admission timeline, was he ignorant to this issue or did he just mislead the House?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We actually have two points of order at this point.

I will go back to the hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill on her earlier point when she transitioned into her next question.

For the benefit of all hon. members, it is true, as I indicated in the opening comments, that generally speaking the respondent should try to put his or her answers in the approximate amount of time as the time taken to pose the question.

That said, members posing questions should be of the understanding that if the brief question would constitute a rather more complex answer, then the Chair will give appropriate time for the minister or parliamentary secretary to respond. To some extent, we try to make sure the time is balanced, but at the same time the idea of committee of the whole is to have a free-flowing exchange, and, to the degree possible, we should try to make sure that the information can be exchanged back and forth in a reasonable fashion. Therefore, I will be watching the balance of time closely, but if it requires a complex response, then time will be given to allow for that.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, far be it for me to utter platitudes, as my friend opposite has indicated. I am trying to answer the questions as clearly as I can. If they are articulated in a clear manner, there will be clear answers.

In terms of the resettlement assistance program, service providers will receive a 25% increase to this year's funding, to $3.6 million, to ensure they have the supports in place as soon as refugees arrive. Over the next four years, a total of $335 million will be used for settlement and resettlement services, both in Canada and abroad, in stages, as the needs of Syrian refugees arise.

To return to the previous response, if it was not clear enough for my friend opposite, the $678 million, in terms of our full costing, is aggregated over a five-year time span, not a single year. That may perhaps add clarity to my response previously.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, I find the condescension of my colleague opposite quite refreshing from the party of “sunny ways”.

My colleague did not answer my question. The costs associated with this program are predicated on the assumption that other service lines within CIC will not be affected. The question I asked, given the press release today saying there will be a decision around the call for proposals that will be off put, is whether service lines, such as the spousal sponsorship program, will be seeing extended delays, and, if not, what resources have been allocated to ensure that is not so.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

It is a completely different category, Mr. Chair. There is no impact that we anticipate because it is a different category.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, to clarify, the parliamentary secretary does not expect to have any service impacts, any increase in service timelines in any other CIC stream due to the Syrian refugee initiative.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are continuing to process the other lines of business within the Ministry of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, as we had in the past. At this point, what I can indicate to my friend opposite is that we do not anticipate any impact on those processes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, what is the total number of government-sponsored refugees, and over what time period is the government using to base its cost calculations?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the total number of government-assisted refugees we are anticipating is 25,000 by December 31 of 2016, and that will be made up of 15,000 by February 29, 2016.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, on December 3, the Minister of Immigration was quoted in the Toronto Sun as suggesting that the number of government-sponsored refugees could go as high as 50,000.

Is my colleague opposite saying that it is capping it at a number below that?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Mr. Chair, my apologies for the delay, but my colleague did a really good job, and I was greeting 50 children with cards for the new refugees.

In terms of the hon. member's question, I must have missed it; I was changing seats. Could the hon. member perhaps ask it again?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship said that the total number of refugees would be capped at a number less than 50,000, yet the minister was quoted in the Toronto Sun as saying that the figures could go as high as 50,000.

I would like the minister to explain to the House which number he is basing his cost calculations on for the Syrian refugee initiative.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, in the first place, those two numbers are not inconsistent with each other.

I said a range of 35,000 to 50,000 refugees; the number of 35,000 is the minimum, and the actual number is yet to be determined by cabinet.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, if the number of government-sponsored refugees has yet to be determined by cabinet, how can anybody in the House have any confidence in the figures that the government is putting forward with regard to the total budgetary figures around the cost of the Syrian refugee initiative?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, if the hon. member does not listen, then she will be confused. The number of government-sponsored refugees is fixed at 25,000, and we have 10,000 coming in that are private. That is a minimum of 35,000, which is fixed. Where it is between 35,000 and 50,000 depends on a cabinet decision still to be taken, but there is absolute clarity in terms of what I just said.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, is the minister suggesting that there are no extra costs associated with private sponsored refugees to the federal government?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is not at all what I am suggesting. However, the costs are much less than the costs associated with the government-assisted refugees.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, is the cost associated with waiving the immigration loan program for the number of refugees coming to the country under the initiative included in these estimates, or in the government's cost estimates around the program to date?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Indeed they are, Mr. Chair.