Debates of Dec. 9th, 2015

Supplementary Estimates (B), 2015-16

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, could the minister explain what the total cost of that will be and what his cost assumptions are around that figure?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am not sure which costs the member is referring to. If it is the total costs of the whole initiative, the number is just under $700 million. If she is referring to the cost of my department, the total cost of my department would be $278 million. If she is talking about the settlement and community integration costs, it is $108 million. If she can tell us what costs she is referring to, I will try to answer.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, what is the total cost associated with waiving the immigration loan program, and what number of refugees is being used to assume the cost calculation around that figure?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, with regard to the cost of waiving the immigration loan program, I do not have that number, but I will get back to the hon. member with it as soon as I can.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

To be clear, Mr. Chair, the minister said that the immigration loan program waiver was included in the budget estimates, but he does not have that figure in front of him at the present time.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, there is $34.5 million for resettlement assistance program to provide 12 months of income support for clients whose income is insufficient to provide for their needs and/or the needs of their dependants.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I will take that as a yes, Mr. Chair.

I would like to return my focus to housing. Affordable housing is a concern across Canada. There is a big delta between average rent in some cities that we are expecting to see the refugees going to and what the federal government is providing to refugees on an annual basis for support.

I am wondering if the government has calculated what that delta is and if it intends to increase its allocation to Syrian refugees. If so, what is the total expected cost, and is the cost reflected in these estimates?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

As I indicated earlier, Mr. Chair, the total amount that the federal government is putting on the table is just under $700 million. It is obvious that this is a national project, and the costs should be shared with the private sector and other levels of government.

I am extremely encouraged at the response to date in the private sector. Many people have come back already to provide free or subsidized lodging, and I am confident that there will be many more. It will be a great national effort, including not only government, but private sector as well.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, the question I have relates to using private companies to provide housing for Syrian refugees. The minister has said that many organizations are providing housing units at a reduced or free cost.

What sort of contracts will be entered into to ensure that stays the case, and over what period of time? What sort of guarantee is the government providing to the companies, if anything, to ensure that this stays the case? What is the cost associated with the same?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think the member is unnecessarily suspicious of the private sector. My first reaction is gratitude when the private sector offers to provide free or subsidized housing. I think she should also be grateful to the private sector for coming forward in this way.

Any kind of contractual arrangements will be dealt with. In large measure, the refugees have not arrived yet. The companies have made a very generous offer, and the details will be worked out with them. However, the primary reaction, from me at least, and from the government, is to thank the private sector very much for its help.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Chair, I am delighted to be here today. I want to thank hon. colleagues for this opportunity to discuss the supplementary estimates. I will be splitting my time today with the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship.

As parliamentarians, one of our greatest responsibilities is our fiduciary responsibility to Canadians. For our system to function properly, parliamentarians must have access to the information they need to hold the government accountable.

That is why making the government's activities more open and transparent was a fundamental theme of our election platform. It is also why we promised to enhance this process, beginning with the supplementary estimates (B) being reviewed today.

Because of the timing of the recent election, the fall parliamentary session opened much later than usual and the committees have not yet been struck. As a result, there is not enough time or structure in place for the typical process, where departments and agencies seek approval for supplementary estimates from the relevant parliamentary committees. The reality we face is that commitments made by the previous government led to urgent financial requests by many departments and agencies in the lead-up to the election. This in turn led to cash-flow pressures for the government.

In keeping with the rules and authorities provided by this House, we had a few different options after the election for dealing with this situation. One option would have been to drain the government's contingency reserve, otherwise known as Treasury Board vote 5, and then to use special warrants. This is what many governments have done in the past. However, this would have involved a smaller role for Parliament, and it would have reduced the government's ability to respond to large unforeseen events in the coming months, before the end of the next supply period.

We felt that tabling supplementary estimates was the most open, transparent, and responsible option available to us, given the circumstances. Recognizing that this Parliament is very new, we have limited these estimates to the most urgent requirements, including a vote to replenish the government's $750-million contingency fund.

Between January and July 2015, the previous government used up $520 million, more than two-thirds of that fund. This money went to items as large as $233 million to AECL for its operations, $99 million to Health Canada for aboriginal health programs, and as small as $5,100 to Library and Archives Canada for changes in the exchange rate.

Going forward, we will take steps to make it easier for parliamentarians to scrutinize government spending. One way we will do this is by ensuring that information provided in the budget, estimates, and public accounts is better aligned. This will help us to better manage our spending plans, both in terms of how we ask for Parliament's approval of these plans and how we report what was actually spent.

Harmonizing our tools and coordinating deadlines better will also help prevent government funds from lapsing.

These improvements will also ensure that authorities provided by Parliament are used by departments to provide timely, effective programs and services to Canadians.

We will also publish cost analysis of legislation before Parliament.

The Government of Canada is firmly committed to providing parliamentarians with the tools they need to make informed decisions and to fulfill their fiduciary obligation to Canadians.

I look forward to working with my hon. colleagues on both sides of the House from all parties on these commitments so that we can work together to strengthen Parliament's oversight of government spending.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Chair, I appreciate the fact that in Treasury Board one really gets a good sense of the numbers.

Could the minister provide some clarity in regard to some of the things that the member responded to in his short comments that relate directly to the throne speech, to give us a better sense of how the two work together?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Chair, I thank my colleague and friend from Winnipeg North for his hard work in this place.

One of the things that our Prime Minister and our party committed to in the election was more openness and transparency and more respect for Parliament. One of the best ways to accomplish that is to better align budget processes with the estimates process. We will be working hard on that not only in Treasury Board but across government agencies and departments in the coming months, particularly as we lead up to a budget. We will work with the Minister of Finance to better align the budget process with the estimates process. That demonstrates respect not only for taxpayers but also respect for Parliament and citizens of Canada.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Madam Chair, I understand that one of the key priorities for the minister's department and a campaign promise of our government is to reform the access to information regime. Could the President of the Treasury Board shed a little more light on the short-term plans or the road map for the reforms that have been committed to?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Chair, I met with the Information Commissioner Madam Legault recently and we discussed the way forward to honour our commitment in the platform. We are also going to engage Parliament in this.

Access to information, and the default being that Canadians deserve to know, is the principle behind our platform and behind our government's commitment to expand access to information in more open and transparent government.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Madam Chair, I was late arriving. I was not at all disturbed to be late because things were in the able hands of my hon. parliamentary secretary. I was late because the member for Davenport had young students on the Hill who produced cards to welcome the refugees from Syria, who are all coming tomorrow night.

They wanted me to talk to them and they asked me some very intelligent questions, these 12-year-olds. It is quite impressive compared to the questions I have heard so far in the House. I was quite bowled over. It is not that the questions in the House were of low quality, it is just that the questions from these young Canadians were of such high quality that I was totally bowled over. I was very happy to meet with them.

One thing I told them was just last weekend I went to an apartment in west Toronto, which could have even been Davenport. People were preparing the apartment for the arrival of Syrian refugees, a mother and her five children. I helped set up the bed in the apartment and then the little girl, about 10 years old, taught me how to say “welcome to Canada” in Arabic, so that I can say that to them. She had to tell me two or three times, but I think it is properly said as [member spoke in Arabic]. Those are the words of a 10-year-old girl helping set up an apartment to welcome the Syrian refugees. She was my teacher. If I ever get to meet the Syrian refugees coming by plane, when they arrive in Canada, I will know what to say. I will say [member spoke in Arabic].

It is a good expression for all of us in the House to learn, because, as I have said many times, this is not just a governmental project and certainly not a Liberal project. All parties in the House have supported it, all provincial governments across the land have supported it. Even the Governor General, who is the precise definition of non-partisan, was leading the charge. Even beyond that, it is not just governmental at all. It is all Canadians, including the business people to whom I was referring earlier, who have come forward. People with thick wallets and big hearts have come forward to provide free or subsidized accommodation to help us meet the requirements of the refugees.

There will be some trials along the way, but I am sure that in the end, we will welcome them not only with a smile but with roofs over their heads, the necessary language training, all of which is covered in our cost estimates, which brings the relevancy to this debate, and health care. Interim federal health is now fully restored for the Syrian refugees and before too long, after they are housed, healthy, and know a bit of English or French, they will be out in the labour market. Across the country, various groups will help our newcomer friends. Some of them are here already and tomorrow evening will be the first full planeload. Then they will come in larger numbers. I am sure all Canadians will welcome them and soon they will become productive workers.

My colleague here comes from Nova Scotia. I can say that the provinces most enthusiastic to welcome the refugees are provinces with a more sharply aging population, like New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. They are really keen to take lots and lots of refugees. From coast to coast to coast, the whole of Canada—

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Aging sharply.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Not you personally; some of your compatriots and I might include myself in that list, but still going strong.

I have lost my train of thought. It must be a sign of aging.

My point is, across the whole country, Canada is giving a very warm welcome to all these Syrian refugees, who will soon be Canadians like all of us.

[John McKay, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Madam Chair, I commend the hon. minister, as well as the Minister of Health and the Minister of Defence, for making the effort to go all the way to Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and that whole area to actually view the situation on the ground.

I want to put that in contrast to a conversation I had at church on Sunday with a good friend of mine, who is Syrian. His comment to me was that no Christian would ever go to a refugee camp. I frankly found that to be quite surprising. However, there is a huge sectarian conflict going on with Yazidis, Druze, Chaldeans, and Syriacs, etc. I want some assurance that when Canada is welcoming refugees from these camps there is no preferential treatment and there is an equal opportunity for all religious groups to qualify for the generosity Canada is extending to these refugees.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, I assure the member there is no discrimination. Our one and only criterion for selection is vulnerability, and we accept people who are vulnerable irrespective of religion.

I can also assure the member that of the people listed on the UN list, in Jordan for example, only about 15% are in camps. Eighty-five per cent are spread around the rest of the country. I think that addresses one of the issues raised to the member.

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Madam Chair, I thank the minister for his comments. I would also like to thank him for recognizing the tremendous mobilization effort afoot in New Brunswick. There are tremendous community organizations in my community, the Multicultural Association of Fredericton, the military community, Red Cross, local religious groups, and individuals.

Perhaps the member could comment a bit further about the community mobilization afoot in other communities like mine, and perhaps about the reception ongoing right now in New Brunswick, for the benefit of this committee.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, the member's province was one of the only two where the premier himself actually got heavily engaged and is really enthusiastic. He was talking about employment opportunities, as well as a place to live, and a job prospect. I would say that New Brunswick was among the most enthusiastic provincial governments with whom I have spoken.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Chair, I will be using my time for questions and answers.

My first question for the minister is, could he inform the House how much of the $178 million for operating expenditures at Citizenship and Immigration would go toward processing refugee applications overseas?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, I do have figures on that. In terms of staff for logistical and delivery services for those overseas, they are broken down. I also have transportation.

I have overseas living costs for staff, which is $6.4 million. I have visa officers deployed overseas, which is $4.7 million. I have logistical and service delivery activities at $2.3 million.

I would have to add them up to get a total figure for the full category the member mentioned, but I do have some of the components.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Chair, how much of the $178 million would go toward processing applications for private sponsorships? I am trying to get the separation between the two categories.