Debates of Feb. 26th, 2015

Pipeline Safety Act

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and for La Francophonie]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

We have been listening to this debate on the pipeline safety bill for a few hours now, and we have heard all kinds of crazy plans to completely reorganize Canada's oil industry. People have talked about various ideas for oil refineries. That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Pipeline safety is absolutely essential to the Canadian economy. The sector does not account for the entire Canadian economy, but it is a big part of it.

I did not hear my colleague say where he stands on this bill in his speech. If he does not support it, it is a little hypocritical of him to criticize the Conservative's management record for this sector. Since this is an asset to the Canadian economy, we need a distribution system and safe pipelines. That is why this is a good bill.

Will the member support it?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Etobicoke—Lakeshore for his comments.

Indeed, this bill is a step in the right direction and we will support it. We will propose some minor amendments in committee, but those are details.

Would my colleague agree that it is important to prevent spills, like in Kalamazoo, for instance? That is the weakness of the Conservative government. They amended the Fisheries Act and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act to limit not only public participation, but also environmental assessments.

I want my colleague to be honest, because the Conservatives have done nothing to improve environmental legislation. However, that is the NDP's plan. We want to harmonize the economy and the environment, the principles of sustainable development. That is what we believe in and what we will do in 2015.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I quite enjoy working with him on the environment committee. I wish we would actually accomplish something at the environment committee, but it is what it is, unfortunately. Members might be interested to know that the environment committee is now engaged in a study on hunting and trapping. Of all the issues the environment committee could be studying, such as climate change, fracking, or whatever, hunting and trapping is the one that has been chosen. It is of critical interest to us all.

I am pleased to hear that the NDP will be supporting the bill. I would think it should be at committee sooner rather than later, but I am also, as I outlined earlier, a bit concerned about the parliamentary schedule. I know that there is a lot of make-work stuff going at other committees, but this actually could be a real piece of work.

Does he think there is a real chance that, with what is left, this will actually get to royal assent?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, indeed, I agree with my colleague. This bill is long overdue, when it should have been a priority.

As we have been saying from the beginning of the debate and as I just said in my speech, since 2011, instead of introducing such a bill on the polluter pays principle, the government has been undermining environmental assessments and environmental protections.

Earlier I talked about how the government amended the Fisheries Act and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. As my colleague mentioned, I am a member of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, where we have seen some terrible amendments made to that act.

There is also the issue of social licence. The public and organizations need to be consulted so they can share their opinions, tell us about their science and have their say. Those kinds of consultations have been very limited. Like my colleague, I am very concerned about what the Conservative government plans to do with this bill.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will first say that I will be sharing my time with my neighbouring colleague, my good friend from Macleod.

It is a pleasure to rise today in support of our government's pipeline safety act. As all hon. members know, Canada's natural resource industries play a vital role in supporting the quality of life we enjoy in this country. In my province and all provinces across this country, we owe our quality of life and the strength of our economy to the important natural resource industries.

Taken together, these industries actually account for more than 13% of our gross domestic product and more than one half of our merchandise exports. When we include the supply chain that provides goods and services to the resource sectors, these industries actually account for almost one-fifth of all economic activity in this country, almost 20% of the economic activity in this country. They create and sustain jobs from coast to coast to coast and in every region of every province in this country.

Directly and indirectly, the jobs of some 1.8 million Canadians depend on our natural resource sectors, and our natural wealth continues to be developed to create opportunities for Canadians. There are hundreds of major natural resource projects under construction or planned over the next 10 years, representing as much as $675 billion worth of investment.

Canada's energy sector is a key part of this. It contributes $175 billion annually to our economy and generates more than $25 billion a year in federal and provincial revenues. While the NDP would like to ignore this fact, these are the same revenues that help to pay for social programs like health care, education, and infrastructure. However, for Canadians to benefit fully from the potential of our energy sector, it requires world-class transportation and infrastructure, including pipelines, to get our energy products to market.

Fortunately, building and operating safe pipelines has been a Canadian tradition for decades. Canadians have the experience and the know-how to move more than three million barrels of oil across our country every single day. As we have heard, 99.999% of the oil and products transported through federally regulated pipelines in Canada have arrived safely. That is why I can stand here and proudly claim that Canada already has an extremely impressive environmental record with regard to pipelines. Indeed, few sectors can boast such an outstanding safety record.

One of the characteristics of this strong, world-class safety regime is that it continually evolves and improves. It is a safety record that is enhanced with every technological advancement and innovation and with every regulatory improvement, and that is the way it should be.

As we look ahead to the many major resource projects still on Canada's horizon, our plan for responsible resource development is more important than ever, because it is focused on getting things right for Canadians, for our environment, and for our economy.

Under our plan, we are focused on four key objectives: first, making the regulatory review process for major projects more predictable and more timely; second, reducing duplication; third, strengthening protection for the environment in marine transportation, offshore development, and pipeline safety; and fourth, enhancing engagement with aboriginal communities in every aspect of resource development.

The pipeline safety act is part of this comprehensive approach. The legislation would build on our government's plan for responsible resource development. Bill C-46, the pipeline safety act, would further strengthen our robust pipeline safety system around the pillars of incident prevention, preparedness and response, and liability and compensation. It features concrete measures to improve our pipeline safety record and to ensure that it remains truly world class. That is why it focuses on prevention, preparedness, and response as well as on liability and compensation.

It offers real action to strengthen pipeline safety, including by modernizing the National Energy Board Act.

Of course, prevention begins with the design and construction of pipelines. In additional to our new legislation, the government is seeking guidance from the National Energy Board on the use of best available technologies in pipeline projects. This includes the materials, the construction methods, and the emergency response techniques.

The legislation would clarify the rules and responsibilities for pipeline operators, including measures to prevent pipeline incidents, to increase safety for Canadians, and to better protect the environment. That is in addition to new regulations that recently came into force and that provide the National Energy Board with the power to directly administer tough new penalties, penalties that will address contraventions quickly so that larger issues do not arise in the future.

Concerning matters of preparedness and response, our proposed changes would ensure that companies know exactly what they are liable for. They would need to demonstrate their ability to meet minimum financial requirements. For example, companies operating major oil pipelines would now be required to demonstrate that they have $1 billion in financial resources.

With regard to liability and compensation, the legislation would enshrine the polluter pays principle in law. This would ensure that Canadian taxpayers will not foot the bill in the unlikely event of a major oil spill. The pipeline safety act would also protect Canadians by providing a financial guarantee, or backstop, to address damages from a major spill. It would authorize the National Energy Board to recover cleanup costs from pipeline operators. We are also taking steps to ensure that pipeline operators are responsible for any potential costs or damages when their pipelines are no longer in use or have been abandoned. No other country in the world requires a $1-billion guarantee from companies operating major oil pipelines.

On top of these improvements, we will continue to work with aboriginal communities and with industry to enhance the participation of aboriginal peoples in all aspects of pipeline operations, from planning and monitoring to responding to incidents. This will ensure that aboriginal peoples participate fully in related employment and business opportunities.

With the passage of this legislation, Canada's pipeline safety system would be truly world class. Members may ask what that means exactly. We define world class as being equal among our peer nations, countries like the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, and Norway. Also, in many cases, Canada would be world leading. No other country in the world has absolute liability so that industry, and not Canadian taxpayers, would be held financially responsible, even before fault or negligence were proven.

Today Canada's regulatory and safety regime for pipelines is among the best in the world. However, when it comes to protecting Canadians and protecting our environment, there is no room for complacency. Pipelines are crucial to the safe transportation of oil and gas across our country and to markets beyond our borders.

With this legislation, we would make existing and new pipelines in Canada safer than ever before. It would ensure that Canada keeps setting the bar when it comes to the safe transport of our energy products. That is why I want to urge all hon. members to support this very important piece of legislation.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the government members have been repeating the 99.999% figure, and my first analogy is that I hope my brakes are 100% rather than 99%, because the 1% when I actually need them, I really will need them.

The second point is that if in fact pipelines are as safe as he says they are, 99.999%, then really, the bill is a bit unnecessary. It is a risk where there is no risk at all. How is it, therefore, that we need a bill to insure that 0.0001% of risk? Were I an insurance company I would be more than happy to charge a premium for a risk that was of that order of magnitude.

I cannot quite square his argument. Either the bill is necessary, which I think it is, or the risk is higher than whatever is left over after 99.999%.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am left with two thoughts after listening to the member's question.

Here is the first. I have listened to him today throughout the debate, both to his questions and his comments. I suppose it is typically Liberal, so I should not be surprised, but there is such inconsistency in the position I am hearing. First I heard some comments from the hon. member about how this is too little too late. Then it was why do we really need it. Then it was that we should have done it sooner. He just cannot seem to come up with a position that is coherent. I guess that is very typical of a Liberal, so I should not be too surprised.

Having said that, what I can tell members is that our government's position is very clear. Yes, Conservatives believe that our pipeline safety record in Canada has been quite strong. As I said, 99.999% of the products moving through are arriving safely. However, we can always strive to do better. That is important.

We always want to make sure that we are doing everything we can to help protect our environment, our economy, and the interests of Canadians. That is what we are doing, and I hope we will have support for it, despite all the inconsistencies on the part of the Liberals.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like my hon. colleague across the way to explain two things.

First, why is the Conservative government imposing a $1 billion cap on the polluter pays principle? Why is the polluter pays principle not unlimited?

Second, this bill is a step in the right direction, but it was introduced after the Conservatives dropped all environmental assessments and amended the Fisheries Act. The Navigable Waters Protection Act was changed too. All these environmental protections were diminished.

On the one hand, this is a step in the right direction, but on the other hand, protections are lacking. Prevention is being reduced and the principle is not being fully applied.

Why are Conservatives taking this tack?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, although I thank the member for the question, I have to say that the assertions I just heard the member make are completely false. I know that the NDP is a party that does not understand the importance of ensuring, in what we are doing in terms of responsible resource development, that the environment is protected and that the economy can continue to move forward. These are things that are important. They are both important, and they are both taken in concert by this government.

The NDP does not seem to get that. We have people from the NDP going down to the United States to lobby against our energy industry. New Democrats do not understand the importance of protecting the environment and ensuring a strong economy. That is the basis of the falsehoods I just heard in the question, and it is the basis of the New Democrats' poor position on these issues. It is why they have been so poorly received in terms of the position they have taken on our attempts in the past to improve things like pipeline safety and environmental protection, and they have even voted against them.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Wild Rose for sharing his time with me, and for his presentation.

I am delighted to participate in this important debate today. This is an important discussion because pipelines are one of the lifelines of our economy. They get the energy we use every day to Canadians across the country.

By amending the National Energy Board Act, Bill C-46 proposes a number of new measures to make our pipelines across Canada even safer.

For many Canadians the National Energy Board, the NEB, may not be something they are very familiar with, so I would like to take some of my time today to focus on what it does, the role it plays, and some of the changes to it that we are proposing.

Established 56 years ago, the National Energy Board has a very clear mandate: to regulate international and interprovincial pipelines, power lines, and energy trade. Today, that means overseeing 73,000 kilometres of pipelines and transporting more than $100 billion of natural gas, oil, and petroleum products each year.

The NEB boasts a staff of about 450 highly skilled experts with a wide range of experience, from engineers to inspectors, to environmental specialists and economists. Their expertise makes the NEB one of the most renowned regulators in the world. I want to make that very clear: it is one of the most renowned, respected regulators in the world.

Equally important, the NEB is independent. It reports through Parliament but is independent of it. Quite simply, it operates at arm's length and has full autonomy. The board uses that independence to rigorously apply science-based analysis to every review it conducts. Those reviews, which are among the most robust in the world, are based on a number of criteria, including the environmental, economic, and social aspects of each and every proposal.

Canadians may ask, what is the end goal? What is the overarching goal of the National Energy Board? The goal is to keep our pipelines and the public safe while, at the very same time, ensuring that the environment is protected.

If an application is successful, and only then, it is still subject to further conditions established by the board.

To enforce its rulings, the NEB has a number of important powers. It can impose administrative penalties on pipeline companies, lower the amount of product allowed through the pipelines, or even shut them down entirely. In some cases, prison sentences from one year to even five years could be imposed for violations to the National Energy Board Act.

Only when the board is confident that a pipeline can be built and operated safely does the company earn the right to proceed with that project. However, the board's role does not end there. It oversees the full cycle of a pipeline, from concept to construction, to operation, to eventual abandonment of that pipeline. That means ongoing audits, inspections, and emergency exercises, with some 300 such compliance actions being conducted in 2013 alone. These ongoing audits and inspections are important. It also means that they continue to raise their standards, requiring more of pipeline companies, imposing stricter conditions, and also conducting rigorous testing.

Under this regime, the board has performed exceedingly well. For example, between 2008 and 2013, 99.99% of oil and other products transported through federally regulated pipelines was moved safely.

Let me be clear here again. That is an outstanding safety record, a record that any country in the world would be envious of. It is a wonderful tribute to the work of the National Energy Board and Canada's pipeline operators.

While we are gratified, we are certainly not satisfied. Our goal must be to have no incidents whatsoever. One incident is one incident too many. That is why, as part of our government's plan for responsible resource development, we have already strengthened the NEB, enabling it to increase its annual oil and gas line inspections by 50% and to double the number of annual comprehensive audits. These inspections and audits are critical proactive measures, because they can identify potential issues and prevent incidents from occurring, which we heard quite a bit about today.

The changes proposed in the bill are another good step toward ensuring that these accidents do not happen. We have provided the NEB with new powers to improve prevention by imposing tough monetary penalties against pipeline operators who do not comply with those regulations. These penalties, which range from $25,000 to $100,000 per day per infraction can also be cumulative, should the infractions not be addressed.

Now, with Bill C-46 we would go even further. Additional amendments to the National Energy Board Act would set a new standard for pipeline safety, ensuring that we have world-class protection. New measures would focus on preventing incidents from occurring, improving our ability to prepare and respond to events, and ensuring that the polluter pay through a tougher liability and compensation regime. In terms of prevention, we would tap into the expertise of the National Energy Board by seeking the board's guidance on the best available technologies for constructing and operating pipelines. As new technologies are developed, we want to ensure they are put into practice. We want to ensure that our safety systems remain evergreen and ever on the cutting edge.

We would also clarify the audit and inspection powers of the NEB, as well as the obligations of the pipeline companies to respond to requests arising out of these actions.

Moreover, we would modernize the damage-prevention regime to further harmonize it with provincial guidelines to prevent accidental damage through digging or other activities.

On preparedness and response, we would amend the National Energy Board Act to require companies that operate major pipelines to have a minimum of $1 billion in financial resources, a portion of which must be readily available to quickly react to any incident.

If a company is unable or unwilling to respond immediately, the NEB would have, in exceptional circumstances, the power to take over response operations and to recover the costs of those operations from the industry. In other words, the Government of Canada would provide the NEB the authority to respond and provide a financial backstop, in addition to giving the NEB the authority and funds to complete any cleanup. The bottom line here is that in the unlikely event there is an incident, the response would be swift, it would be thorough, and it would not be paid for out of the pockets of Canadians.

This bill would also strengthen our system of liability and compensation. Not only would pipeline companies now face unlimited liability when found to be at fault, but companies would automatically be responsible for damages up to a set amount. This is called “absolute liability”. It would not matter who or what caused the incident; the company would be responsible regardless. In the case of companies operating major oil pipelines, once again, that liability would be $1 billion, more than in any other country in the world.

What is more, this bill would allow the government to pursue pipeline operators for the costs of environmental damage, and it would empower the NEB to order reimbursement of cleanup costs incurred by either government or individuals. Finally, the NEB would be able to recover its own costs by stepping in to coordinate a response.

These are among the most sweeping changes to the National Energy Board Act since it was passed in 1959. This is a clear indication of how committed this government is to ensuring that Canada can safely transport the energy Canadians need and use every day.

Canadians understand that the energy sector is a critical part of our economy. It provides jobs and opportunities from coast to coast to coast. Canadians know how important the energy sector is to our quality of life and to our communities. However, they also want be reassured that our environment will be protected. Our government shares those priorities. That is why we are bringing forward this bill and I urge all members to support it.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I agree with him that there is some improvement in the polluter pays principle, but we are only halfway there. Nonetheless, one of the troubling aspects of this bill is that low-capacity pipelines, the ones that move less than 250,000 barrels of oil a day, are not covered by the liability. That is troubling because that type of pipeline, often in small sections, is the most common in or near urban centres.

Why was this type of lower-volume pipeline not included in the same way as higher-volume pipelines?

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, part of the reason that was not included is that we want to focus on the major pipelines, the ones that would be the most damaging to the environment if something happened to them. That is why the $1 billion liability was put in place. It far exceeds any other regime in the world. We looked at the numbers and the average cleanup, if anything ever happens, is between $20 million and $50 million. So the $1 billion is more than enough to cover the vast majority of any accidents that would happen.

However, with these changes to the act, there will be funds there for the National Energy Board so that it can step in and address some of these cleanups, should there be a spill. I hope that answers his question.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to address the large pipeline that could and should have been given more attention by the government, and that is the Keystone XL pipeline. Where the government has been found wanting is on the issue of the environment and what it has been doing to protect the environment and dealing with issues related to the security and safety of our pipelines and so forth.

One of the Prime Minister's greatest failures is not being able to work with the President of the United States, Mr. Obama, to get this on the right track. This legislation has been needed for a number of years now. On the eve of an election only months away, here we are at second reading and, as has been pointed out, there is a very good chance that the legislation will not even be passed and given royal assent before that election. Why did the government take so long to present this legislation to the House?

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not recall anything in this legislation about Mr. Obama or the Keystone pipeline. This is specifically about pipeline safety. We can go off track if the member likes, but I would like to bring it back to what we are talking about here.

We have had a world-class safety regime in place. Opposition members may not like the fact, but the fact is that we have a 99.999% safety rating already, which goes to show that we have had an unbelievable safety record. However, that does not mean that we have to stop there. As I said in my speech, one incident is one incident too many. We want to make sure that every avenue is available so if there ever is a spill from a major pipeline, there will be regimes in place to address it. That is why the $1 billion dollar liability was put in place, so that if anything ever happens in the future, there will be is a strong safety net to ensure that it is cleaned up.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the environment is the economy. Nearly two years ago, on May 10, 2013, I stood in the House next to the environment minister to declare what British Columbians and Canadians believe: that the environment is the economy.

Every time we consider whether environmental and economic factors are in balance, we are suggesting that the environment and the economy are in conflict with each other. Some would argue that we must sacrifice one to advance the other. In other words, we tend, wrongly, to start our discussion from the notion that the economy and the environment are at war with each other.

As a member of Parliament, I am increasingly required to consider the impact of industrial projects on the economy and environment, especially in the riding I represent. Throughout the year, conversations at events, in coffee shops, and in the homes of constituents are often related to responsible resource development. Constituents of mine, as individuals and in groups, have consistently expressed their support for Canada's economic success, but have also stood for responsible environmental practices befitting of a riding that many call the most beautiful place on earth.

Some of these proud Canadians include former fisheries minister John Fraser, Carl Halvorson of the North Vancouver Outdoor School based in Squamish, Squamish first nation elder Randall Lewis, and David Bromley, a world-renowned environmental engineer. The environment is the economy. This is the message we Canadians are increasingly taking to our Prime Minister, the natural resources industry, and the environment, fisheries, and other ministers. Bill C-46, the pipeline safety act, shows that our government is listening.

The environment is the economy. This is best illustrated in the context of value-added projects both in the riding I represent and elsewhere in Canada. This government has created a challenging review process for natural resource projects, where proponents have a high standard to meet. They must increasingly show better productivity and value to Canada, with less waste, more efficient use of resources, and a respect for the environment we cherish. These projects have a significant impact on the quality of life in Canada, providing financial and infrastructure inputs. Canada needs these projects.

The automatic reaction of “stop” is a simplistic approach, characteristic of special interest groups that just want to stall projects. This Conservative government believes in the need for continuous improvement in project implementation and impact mitigation. However, we are opposed to the simplistic hands-down rejection by people who would just say no to industry, who forget Canada's entrepreneurial roots, and who would leap to negative conclusions without due process, sound data, or information to support their position.

More and more, we Canadians are learning the benefits derived from a focus on the environment. Specifically, less use of resource inputs such as water, energy, and land has made us more efficient, leading to higher productivity and economic sustainability. As a government, we have emphasised the need for a science-based, independent, objective approval process that keeps us focused on the real objective of less impact, greater efficiency, and sustainability.

This government's focus on these principles has driven a culture of responsibility to improve continuously. The result has been the growth of jobs in the environmental sector, which now supports employment levels that dwarf even the automotive and oil and gas sectors. According to the organization ECO Canada, as of 2013, some 682,000 jobs in Canada are directly related to the environment. The focus on the environment is a change agent, not a simplistic “stop” agent. It is why I continue to say that Canada's environment is our economy.

Our government continues to rely upon independent, objective scientific assessments before approving any project. We saw this approach at work recently in our government's rejection of the Taseko New Prosperity mine project in northern B.C., an ambitious proposal to create thousands of jobs and large economic stimulus, but nevertheless rejected for environmental reasons. Many British Columbians supported the Taseko initiative, but environmental considerations prevailed. As demonstrated by that decision, our government has pledged that natural resource development will only proceed if the project is proven to be safe for Canadians and safe for the environment.

The pipeline safety act would complement a number of measures previously implemented by our government to strengthen pipeline safety, which provided the National Energy Board, for example, the authority to levy administrative monetary penalties and increase the number of inspections and audits.

Bill C-46 would build on this work and provide a world-class regulatory regime for Canada's pipeline sector, while strengthening protection for Canadians and the environment. Bill C-46 addresses three main areas, which are incident prevention, preparedness and response, and liability and compensation.

Today, as a lawyer, I am focusing on the area of liability and compensation, particularly emphasizing the bill's strengthened measures to compensate for environmental damages in keeping with the polluter pays principle.

Under Bill C-46, our government would deliver on the promise to enshrine the polluter pays principle in law, to make it an important foundation for the pipeline safety regime. It would place accountability on industy and protect Canadian taxpayers from having to pay for damages and cleanup costs in the unlikely event of a spill or accident. The polluter pays principle assigns responsibility to the polluter for paying for damage to the environment, as well as the associated cleanup costs.

One of the key features of the proposed law is that it would raise the cap for absolute civil liability up to $1 billion for pipeline owners, even where there is no fault or negligence on the part of the proponent. On the other hand, liability where the pipeline owner is at fault or negligent would remain unlimited. Another key feature is that the legislation would establish the legal right for various parties to seek environmental damages. This would ensure that any damages to wildlife, waterways, or other public resources could be addressed.

The absolute or no-fault liability regime created under Bill C-46 would be one of the most robust and comprehensive in the world. While the U.S. and the U.K. have similar legislation in place, the $1 billion minimum financial capacity, and absolute liability limit would be unique to Canada. Canada would also be unique in having a cost recovered financial backstop model that provides complete coverage for cleanup and damages.

Our country has a world-class pipeline safety system. Between 2000 and 2011, federally regulated pipelines boasted a safety record of over 99.999%.

The natural resources sector is the largest private employer of aboriginal people in Canada. The plan described in the pipeline safety act was developed closely with industry and aboriginal communities to provide training for aboriginal communities on pipeline monitoring and response. This would allow aboriginal people to continue to make important contributions as full partners in the development of our natural resources.

In conclusion, Canada's environment is the economy. This government supports robust processes that take into account all considerations relevant to British Columbians and Canadians: a sustainable environment, value-adding jobs, and thriving economic growth.

Let us put an end to the “stop” mentality, which is characterized by not having sound data, and let us start encouraging open dialogue that considers all of the evidence, starting with this question of pipeline safety.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member who just spoke and whose riding has a very long name, but one that is very beautiful and evocative.

He mentioned the safety statistics for pipelines. However, it should be understood that there are risks nonetheless. The more pipelines that are built and the higher the volume of oil transported, the greater the risk of oil spills. We cannot overlook these risks because they also affect drinking water, for example.

I would like him to go into more detail about how the government plans to use science and technology, for example, by encouraging innovative projects in this field so that Canada is a leader in safety and how it plans to ensure that we have robust laws that will address the risks associated with the transportation of these goods.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for her question, which I am very pleased to answer.

In fact, greater pipeline safety will also encourage investment in a sector that is extremely important to the Canadian economy.

For example, the oil sands alone support more than 275,000 jobs across Canada. According to the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, in 2013, pipeline companies invested $6.5 million in aboriginal communities and paid $1.1 billion in property and corporate taxes.

Therefore, the result is not only to increase safety, build on world-class safety, and increase liabilities for polluters beyond anything known elsewhere in the world, but also to encourage investment in a sector that is very much the engine for growth in Canada, which we must do with the best of environmental protections.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, a number of the Conservatives like to stand up and talk about this world-class safety record. I do not think it is fair for the government to assume the credit for either other governments or, more importantly, companies that have long-established responsible attitudes toward ensuring that we have good standards, at least in part. When I look at what is being proposed in the legislation, it talks about 70,000-plus kilometres just on the federal responsibility side. I do not know the actual kilometres, but there are many additional kilometres of non-federally regulated responsibilities for pipelines.

I wonder if the member might want to provide his comment with respect to the National Energy Board's role to align federal and provincial pipeline safety as a whole, because it is not—

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

The hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to respond to my colleague's questions.

First, I am sure my colleague would agree that we as Canadians cannot afford a situation where tens of billions of dollars are lost per year because we cannot get our petroleum products to tidewater.

Second, I am sure my colleague would agree that, when looking at the disaster in Lac-Mégantic, we cannot afford to transport those petroleum products by rail or by truck when we have world-class, safe pipelines.

I am sure my colleague would also agree that, if we can continue to build on that great 99.999% safety record of federally regulated pipelines, we should do so. That is what this bill is about. We want to get it passed so we can build on that excellent record.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development]

Mr. Speaker, all of my colleagues on this side of the House have talked about the importance of job creation. One of the groups with whom we know we need to work is the aboriginal community, and my colleague talked about that. We know that the natural resource sector employs thousands of people from the aboriginal communities. In fact, more than 13,000 aboriginal people were employed in the energy sector in 2012.

I wonder if my colleague would comment very briefly on what opportunities this would offer to our aboriginal youth.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the aboriginal communities would be partners in the wealth creation and resource exploration that this bill would help unfold. I have three world-class aboriginal communities in the riding I represent: the Squamish, the Sechelt, and the Sliammon. Our government works very closely with these communities. That close co-operation is representative of what we would see, as safe pipelines take petroleum securely to tidewater.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Canada Shipping Act, 2001

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

moved that Bill C-638, An Act to amend the Canada Shipping Act, 2001 (wreck), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for St. John's South—Mount Pearl for seconding this piece of legislation, and I also want to acknowledge the work that has been done by the member for Victoria and the member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca.

What exactly is it that Bill C-638 does? It designates the Coast Guard as the receiver of wrecks for the purposes of the Canada Shipping Act, allowing them to take action without being directed to by a ministry. It would also compel the government to create regulations for the removal, disposition, or destruction of derelict vessels or wrecks.

I have had a number of emails asking me exactly what we mean by a wreck. I will go to part 7 of the Canada Shipping Act, section 153. It says that a wreck is defined as:

jetsam, flotsam, lagan and derelict and any other thing that was part of or was on a vessel wrecked, stranded or in distress

Part of the reason I brought this bill forward is that what we have out there is a jurisdictional quagmire. We have three separate federal government departments that end up dealing with wrecks, whether it is Transport Canada, whether it is Environment Canada, or whether it is the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Then we have provincial and municipal levels of government as well. I want to quote from a report called “Dealing with Problem Vessels and Structures in B.C. Waters”. This report says:

Dealing with problem vessels and structures can be highly complex due to the mix of provincial ownership of land, federal jurisdiction over navigation and shipping and sometimes conflicting federal and provincial laws.... Determining what laws apply can be complicated by the fact that Provincial laws or local government bylaws that would be applicable to a structure or vehicle on dry land may not apply to vessels because they either conflict with federal laws such as the Canada Shipping Act, or infringe on the core of the federal government's responsibility for navigation and shipping.

What ends up happening, actually, and I will give an example a little later on, is that departments end up pointing their fingers at each other, or levels of government end up pointing their fingers at each other, and nobody takes responsibility.

We might ask, what is the scope of this problem? Unfortunately, part of the problem is that we do not have a really good inventory of this. However, there was some attempt in British Columbia to deal with the problem of derelict vessels. There was a report called “Vessels of Concern Inventory” produced by Transport Canada in March 2014. In this report, and it only focused on British Columbia, it said that a total of 245 vessels of concern have been identified in this inventory.

In my riding, for example, the town of Ladysmith has 45 vessels. South of me, the city of Victoria has 22 vessels, and so on, but there is a caveat in this report. It said, “The reader is cautioned that this inventory consolidates only the municipalities responding”.

Most people feel that the problem is seriously understated in British Columbia, and we know that this is a problem from coast to coast to coast. We are hopeful that all members of this House will be seized of this issue and will support what is really a first step. This is just a very preliminary first step.

“Vessels of Concern Inventory” also indicated that “Many problem vessels of concern to local governments and the public are not obstructions to navigation and therefore [Transport Canada] is unable to take direct action”.

I want to point out that this report was done by Transport Canada, and it highlights part of the jurisdictional problem.

Before I get into some examples, I want to mention a couple of people who have worked on this issue for a number of years. The first person is Lori Iannidinardo, who is a regional director for the Cowichan Valley Regional District and is responsible for Cowichan Bay. Unfortunately, Cowichan Bay, which is a lovely part of my riding, has had a number of problems with derelict vessels.

I have to acknowledge the former fisheries minister from the east coast. One of the vessels broke loose and was floating around in high winds, and when I went to the fisheries minister, he immediately had the Coast Guard get the vessel secured and tied up. They did not deal with the fact that the vessel was still in Cowichan Bay, but at least it was secured so that it was not running amok in the bay, where there are many other vessels, including commercial vessels.

I also want to acknowledge Sheila Malcolmson, the former chair of Islands Trust. Both Sheila and Lori have been working on raising awareness and seeking solutions.

Recently, Sheila Malcolmson sought and gained support from the Town of Ladysmith and the Regional District of Nanaimo for my bill, Bill C-638. In a 2013 letter to the transport minister, Sheila, as the former Islands Trust chair, highlighted the challenges facing our communities. The Islands Trust has been concerned about derelict and abandoned vessels for decades and has been asking since 2010 for the Province of British Columbia and the federal government to develop a coordinated approach to the timely removal of all types of derelict and abandoned vessels, barges, and docks.

Although we are grateful for the leadership shown by Transport Canada staff with some specific derelict vessel removals last year, no permanent solutions have been adopted. Derelict and abandoned vessels, barges, and docks pose environmental contamination and safety risks. They also create visual pollution in communities, which negatively impacts tourism and commercial activities.

The age of vessels in Canadian waters is increasing and so the number of incidents of abandoned and derelict vessels is expected to increase and become unmanageable. I will give a very recent example of how difficult this is for our communities to deal with.

Just the other day, I wrote a letter to the Minister of Transport, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, and the Minister of the Environment, highlighting a current situation. In the letter I indicated that on August 31, 2012—we are talking two-and-a-half years later, and we have still not dealt with the problem—a survey was commissioned for the Canadian Coast Guard. It said that the Viki Lyne II, also known as the Aberdeen, posed a significant, imminent, and ever-increasing threat to the environment due to her deteriorated condition and the significant amount of oil aboard. The survey recommended that the only certain way of removing the threat was to disassemble and scrap the vessel. More than two years later the vessel remains a threat.

In the fall of 2014, 20,000 litres of oil was pumped from the Viki Lyne II by the Coast Guard. However, 13,000 litres of oil and solvent remain on board. Unfortunately, the resources to remove the remainder of the material are limited.

This is part of the problem. If it is a hazard to navigation, Transport Canada will step in and secure the vessel. If the vessel is actually leaking oil into the water, Environment Canada will step in and do something. However, the problem in this particular vessel's case is that they pumped out the oil and left all of this sludge in the bottom of the vessel, and the vessel is listing and threatening to sink. In the Coast Guard's own assessment, the vessel is said to be deteriorating, yet the vessel still sits there. The community is waiting for it to sink and then maybe someone will step in and deal with the cleanup, which would probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more than if the vessel were removed from the bay.

We have been working on this issue for months now. In an email on February 6, we wrote to the Minister of Transport and said that the vessel appeared to be listing and, given a forecast of lots of rain and possible high winds in the coming week, there was concern that the vessel could sink. The transport minister wrote back to us saying that it had been determined that the vessel was not now, nor would it likely ever become, an obstruction to navigation in its current position and, therefore, that the navigation protection program had no mandate to intervene in this matter.

I do not know if Transport Canada staff have actually been out to the west coast where we get big winds and big seas. We know it is not a question of if the vessel will sink, but when it will. The transport minister has known for years that this vessel is a problem, yet there is no action.

It is not just about the environmental pollution, or just about it being a hazard to navigation. I want to read a letter from the Stz'uminus First Nation. They have also written a letter to the Minister of Transport about the Viki Lyne II, or Aberdeen as it is known. They wrote that it would be an environmental disaster, affecting the traditional waters of the Stz'uminus First Nation, where there is a vibrant and established shellfish industry, a growing marine tourism industry, and B.C.'s most successful west purple martin colony, thereby threatening the very lifestyle of a region known for its connection to the sea

Therefore, not only is it an environmental hazard and a hazard to navigation, but it also affects the very livelihood of the people who live in the area. It is quite shocking to me that we cannot get any movement to deal with this longstanding problem.

There are many examples, and I wish I had time to go over all of them. However, as I said, there are 245 vessels that have been identified, and that does not even come close to representing the scope of the problem. I do not have time to go over every vessel and the state it is in, but we have concerns from the provincial government as well. The provincial government and municipalities are urging the federal government to come to the table and show leadership in tackling this problem.

I want to mention one other vessel, the Trojan, which was adrift in Maple Bay. This vessel was inadequately anchored. It did not have enough rode, and the mooring attachment was not sufficient for the size of the vessel. We contacted Transport Canada, and because the vessel was temporarily secured and not in the navigation channel at the time, Transport Canada said it could not touch it.

I understand Transport Canada's perspective. Transport Canada's mandate is that it cannot step in until it becomes a hazard to navigation. However, in this case, because there was no environmental concern, Environment Canada could not step in either.

We get some extreme tides on the west coast. For a while, at low tide, the Trojan was not drifting around the bay. However, as soon as some extremely high tides came in, the vessel was drifting around the bay.

One of the constituents who had been involved in this said that the last word they had from Transport Canada under the navigation protection program was that it is considering its options. The constituent followed up and inquired about who had responsibility for removal and cleanup when, not if, the Trojan ran aground, but received no reply.

The constituent goes on to say:

Of course, the problem with Transport Canada's response...is that when the vessel becomes an obstruction to navigation (again) or a danger to property (again), it may be too late for remedial action.

In this case, it had actually damaged some private property when it had broken loose at some point.

We had a tremendous amount of support for this bill, but I want to remind people that this bill is only a first step. We are constrained in private members' business about what we can ask for in a private member's bill.

I have to acknowledge that the Minister of Transport has been convening meetings discussing the Washington State model, which is probably a good model for for Canada to look at.

The Minister of Transport has also been responding and acknowledging the depth of the problem, but in the meantime, municipalities and first nations are rallying to support my bill because they recognize that it represents at least some movement. Again, it would designate the Coast Guard as a receiver of wrecks and require the government to set some regulations.

The Town of Ladysmith has written a letter to the minister indicating support for this bill. The letter says:

The problem continues to grow and poses an ever-grave threat to our communities. Derelict and abandoned vessels leach many different environmental toxins into our waters, pose serious navigational hazards, and adversely affect both aesthetics and local economies. Local governments like ours are virtually powerless to address this issue which has such serious consequences for our communities.

Just the other day, the Regional District of Nanaimo also supported Bill C-638. The regional district directors voted unanimously at their regular meeting to write a letter in support of private member's Bill C-638, which would see the Canadian Coast Guard take on full responsibility for derelict vessels littering the coastline.

Bowen Island Municipality has also indicated its support because of the issues around environmental, economic, and navigational hazards posed by derelict and abandoned vessels.

I am hopeful that there will be support from all members in this House for this legislation as a good first step. I think it is important not only in terms of environmental hazards and hazards to navigation but also in terms of the impact on economic opportunities when derelict vessels run aground or sink.

Again, I am looking forward to further debate on this bill. I am expecting to see it pass on to committee for further review.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her intervention and her private member's bill that she has put forward today. I will be making some remarks on that shortly, in particular on why the Canadian Coast Guard cannot be designated as a receiver of wreck, which is a major technical flaw in the bill. Apart from that, the way the system works right now is that owners are responsible for their vessels. In the case particularly where there are known owners, certain actions can be taken.

What the bill proposes to do, though, is quite different. It actually proposes to shift the liability from the owner of a vessel onto the government and therefore onto the taxpayers. I do not know whether the member thinks that might not lead to people dumping their boats when they realize they are no longer responsible for doing anything responsible with them. That is a problem.

Secondarily, the member has talked about an estimated number of boats, probably underestimated. We know that dealing with some of these boats can cost into the millions of dollars, maybe even the tens of millions of dollars, for removal and cleanup. Does the member have an idea how much it would cost to have the taxpayers deal with every single derelict vessel in Canada?