House of Commons Hansard #190 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was isil.

Topics

Citizenship and ImmigrationOral Questions

March 26th, 2015 / 3 p.m.

Independent

Massimo Pacetti Independent Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Mr. Speaker, recently, at the UN's request, the government promised to accept 10,000 more Syrian refugees by 2017.

However, Syria is still not on the list of moratoria countries. That is upsetting to asylum seekers already in Canada who are worried about being deported to a country in crisis.

When will the government put Syria on the list of moratoria countries to protect Syrian refugees already in Canada?

Citizenship and ImmigrationOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Ajax—Pickering Ontario

Conservative

Chris Alexander ConservativeMinister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question and for recognizing this government's commitment to resettle 10,000 Syrian refugees in Canada.

We are certainly looking at everything we are doing in Syria and Iraq from a humanitarian perspective. We examine each case closely and encourage all families and social organizations in Canada to sponsor refugees so we can achieve our objectives as soon as possible.

Business of the HouseOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have good news for Canadians. First, it is important to know that there are just a little more than 200 days left in the life of this government. On October 19, Canadians will have the opportunity to put an end to this government. I know that the vast majority of Canadians are fed up with this government.

I have other big news. Even though this government is intolerant when it comes to debates in the House and even though it cut the list of witnesses at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, it is important to note that Canadians are following the debates of that committee. The majority of Canadians may have approved of Bill C-51 during the initial days of the review in committee, but now the majority of Canadians disagree with this government and this bill. That only goes to show the importance of the House debates, which Canadians are obviously following with great interest.

That being said, I wanted to ask my colleague, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, a question: what is on the government's agenda for the next week?

Business of the HouseOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon we will continue debating government Motion No. 17, respecting Canada's military contribution to the campaign against the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant. Considering the importance of that debate, we will be continuing it, under an order of the House, until midnight tonight.

ISIL has stated its intention to target Canada and Canadians. In fact, ISIL issued a call to action for people to attack targets in Canada. So far two attackers have responded to that call. That is why we have to take on ISIL, take on the threat it poses and keep it from establishing a geographic foothold from which to operate. We intend to continue to degrade and destroy ISIL.

That is why we are seeking the support of Canadian parliamentarians for our decision to extend and expand Canada's military mission with our allies so we can effectively fight this jihadism which threatens our national security and global security.

We will return to that debate on Monday afternoon and complete it that day.

Tomorrow, we will continue—and, hopefully, conclude—the third reading debate on Bill C-26, the Tougher Penalties for Child Predators Act.

Monday, before question period, we will start the second reading debate on Bill C-52, the Safe and Accountable Rail Act. This legislation will improve railway safety and strengthen oversight while protecting taxpayers and making the rail industry more accountable to communities. This debate will continue on Tuesday.

On Wednesday, the House will resume the second reading debate of Bill C-42, the common sense firearms licensing act. The bill meets the government's objective to cut red tape for law-abiding firearms owners and provide safe and simpler firearms policies. Changes to the Criminal Code would enable the government to take steps to ensure the rights of lawful firearms owners would be respected. The debate will continue on Thursday, when we will adjourn for Easter.

The House resumed consideration of the motion, and of the amendment.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I notice a number of Conservative members consistently have raised the issue of ISIL in trying to appeal to Canadians about the type of behaviour in which ISIL conducts itself, and has been for years now.

I know this with 100% certainty in the Liberal caucus, but it goes far beyond that, but I think it is safe to say that virtually all Canadians agree that the way ISIL has conducted itself over the last number of years is completely unacceptable. I do not think the dictionary has the words to best describe how its behaviour abhors so many of us. The graphic images of events portrayed by this terrorist organization are very telling why Canada needs to play a role in the fight against ISIL and terrorism.

I would not want anyone who might be listening to feel, in any fashion whatsoever, that the Liberal Party of Canada does not recognize the detrimental role that ISIL plays on the world stage. We are prepared to take the necessary actions to protect Canadians as a whole.

Terrorism is not new. In fact, if we go back to the 9/11 incident, the falling of the twin towers, we would see that the world responded relatively quickly. At that time, the then prime minister, Jean Chrétien, understood the importance of what Canadians thought and believed a government needed to do.

Different pieces of legislation and different types of discussions took place so Prime Minister Chrétien was able to set at ease the issues of terrorism and safety at home. He underlined for the Liberal Party how important it was to recognize that Canada had a role to play.

The Liberal Party has never opposed the deploying of our armed forces into combat when it clearly serves Canada's national interest. Military missions designed to uphold our interest have transparent objectives and a responsible plan to achieve them.

However, let me be perfectly clear. The Liberal Party does not support the government's efforts to deepen this combat mission and to expand it into Syria.

I have looked at some of the comments put on the record. I would like to go specifically to the other day when the leader of the Liberal Party addressed the House on this very important issue, and the expansion of the mission. Here is what he had to say:

—the government's desire to expand Canada's presence into Syria represents a worrying trend. We can call it evolution or escalation or mission creep. Whatever term is preferred, the pattern is the same.

First we discovered that our role included ground combat operations, despite the Prime Minister's assurances to the contrary. Now we are being asked to expand our involvement into Syria. It is hard to believe the proposed timeline, given the public musings of the ministers of defence and foreign affairs. Indeed, the Minister of Foreign Affairs explicitly compared this war to Afghanistan, stating that we are in this for the longer term. In Afghanistan, the longer term meant a decade.

However, how can we trust a government that so openly misled Canadians? This government is proposing that the Canadian Forces participate in a vague combat mission with no clear end point, and we cannot support that.

That is what the leader of the Liberal Party said just the other day in the House of Commons. It is applicable to the debate we are having today.

ISIL is a threat, and we recognize that. It is important to make it clear how the Liberal Party supports our men and women in the Canadian Forces. I had the privilege of being a member of the regular forces during the 1980s, and what an honour it was to serve Canadians in that capacity.

As parliamentarians, many would argue that our greatest responsibility is when we call upon the members of our forces, those brave men and women, to execute a direction from here in the House of Commons. It is an issue we should not be taking lightly. On that note, I would personally like to send my condolences, prayers, and best wishes to the family and friends of Sergeant Doiron, who was our first casualty in the Iraqi situation we are currently in.

Canada has a clear interest in training Iraqi forces to fight and destroy ISIL. We can and should do this training away from the front lines, as our allies have been doing. Canada should participate in a well-funded and well-planned international humanitarian aid effort. The refugee crisis alone threatens the region's security, overwhelming neighbouring countries. We need to recognize the magnitude of what we are talking about. We are talking about millions.

I would like to reinforce what the Liberal leader stated the other day regarding the United Nations. He said:

The United Nations is telling us that, after four years of all-out war, over 11 million Syrians—over half the population—have been driven from their homes. Syrians are fleeing their country by the millions, and this exodus of refugees is causing a terrible crisis. In five years of combat, over 210,000 Syrians have been killed, including over 10,000 children.

That is a horrendous number. Imagine every resident in western Canada being displaced, and then some. The population of western Canada is less than 11 million. Could members imagine every person in western Canada being displaced? We are talking about a mass displacement of people that is taking place, and the government's response has been found wanting.

Let us talk about the four core principles that the Liberal Party has talked about. First, Canada has a role to play in confronting humanitarian crises in the world. Second, when a government considers deploying its men and women in uniform, there must be a clear mission and a clear role for Canada. Third, the case for deploying our forces must be made openly and transparently, based on clear, reliable, and dispassionately presented facts. Fourth, Canada's role must reflect the broad scope of Canadian capabilities and how we best can help.

This is the test we have put to the Prime Minister, the Minister of National Defence, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and the current government has failed to meet that test. Canadians need to be aware of the Conservatives' inability to present their case.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Erin O'Toole Minister of Veterans Affairs, CPC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my friend from Winnipeg for his intervention. He talked about his time in the Canadian Armed Forces. We have done work here on the Hill together for veterans and on military-related issues, and I always appreciate his thoughts on these matters.

One thing I have to raise is that he outlined his leader's list of considerations, and what I find striking, because the member went back to the 1980s, when he served, was that he said we should bring a clear and transparent debate to this House of Commons on a military combat deployment. However, that very approach was not followed by the Liberals before there were 12 years of Afghanistan. In fact, the Kabul and later the Kandahar missions were not brought to this House.

I am going to be speaking later this afternoon and using some speeches other Liberal leaders have given. We cannot find a speech from former Prime Minister Chrétien or others in the House of Commons before Afghanistan, because they did not bring it to the House for a debate and a vote.

Our Prime Minister is taking a radically different approach. This is the second time we are having this debate into the evening. We are voting in this House on a combat-related deployment, a modest one but an important one. Why is the Liberal Party not supporting a mission that is clearly and transparently laid out, unlike the Liberals' Afghanistan mission?

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, that is just not true. It is not the case.

Let me be very clear. The government is proposing an unfocused, unending combat mission for the Canadian Armed Forces. The Conservatives have failed to clearly articulate the mission objectives, with the Prime Minister and his Minister of National Defence offering conflicting arguments.

Let us reflect on the debates and discussions that took place both inside and outside the House on Canada's role in Iraq. It took a great deal of courage for then Prime Minister Chrétien to recognize that it was not okay for Canada to play a role in Iraq back then. There was a case made and put forward in regard to Afghanistan.

I believe that the Liberal Party has taken a very responsible approach to dealing with our Canadian Forces and world politics. We can be very proud of the way we have dealt with foreign affairs. This is something I personally take great pride in. However, it is very important that Canadians be aware of just how much—

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. I will have to stop the hon. member there to allow for another question.

The hon. member for Sherbrooke.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I wonder if my colleague can help us understand the vague objective of Canada's mission in Iraq, which the government is now trying to demonstrate. There seems to be no clearly defined objective for the end of the mission in Iraq.

The problem is that the government has decided to undertake a combat mission without having a clearly defined objective at the outset about when the mission will end and when we will be able to withdraw our soldiers from all of these conflicts.

Can my colleague comment on the problem of not identifying a clear end to this mission?

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, that is the essence of what I believe many Canadians are quite concerned about. It is that there has not been a clear game plan put on the table. There has been a lack of transparency from the Prime Minister's Office, which we should all be concerned about.

What I would like to do is bring home a few points on what the Liberal Party of Canada is actually saying. Canada has a clear interest in training Iraqi forces to fight and destroy ISIL. We can and should do this training away from the front lines, as our allies have been doing.

Canada should participate in a well-funded and well-planned international humanitarian aid effort. The refugee crisis alone threatens the region's security and is overwhelming neighbouring countries. Here at home we should expand our refugee targets and give more victims of war the opportunity to start a new life here in Canada. There are many things we can do. We will have to wait and see how the debate continues.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Calgary East Alberta

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and for International Human Rights

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleagues for welcoming me back from the little break I took.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to discuss the continued crisis caused by the so-called Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, known as ISIL, which is an ongoing crisis and a critical international issue.

I want to add a personal dimension to this debate.

I grew up in multicultural countries such as Tanzania and India before I arrived in Canada. In Tanzania, my best friend, whom I treated as a family member, was a Sunni Muslim. His name is Shakot Malik. In India, close friendships developed during my school years with members of the Muslim community. Here in Canada, members of the Sunni, Shia, Ismaili, and Ahmadiyya have all been strong supporters and personal friends. Let me name a few: Naseem Mahadi, Albert Elkadri, Ray Sarout, Nagah Hage, Moe Amery, Moe Suliman, Jamal Rafai, Mohammad Rasheed, and Mohamod Yasin.

Why do I say these names? It is because they are outstanding members of the Muslim community who have strongly contributed to making Canada the best country in the world.

There are a few others I can also name, such as Dr. Habiba Chakir, a leading scientist, and Nazreen Ali, with whom I held a symposium a few years ago here on Parliament Hill called “Women in Islam”. I will also soon have one as a family member too.

We are proud of the contributions made by these great Canadians.

I have also had the privilege to represent Canada abroad and have made strong friendships with Muslims from across the globe. They are all outstanding citizens of the world.

Therefore, it is wrong to say that ISIL represents Islam. ISIL is a bunch of murderers. What its members are doing is definitely against Islam. They kill the innocent, they rape women, and they target minorities. Terrible stories have come out of Syria and Iraq where ISIL is in control. Let me say how barbaric they are. They even kill their own who disagree with them. The Economist magazine, in a recent issue, captured what members of ISIL are doing. They are spreading fear.

The international community has not only an obligation but a responsibility to stop the murderous rampage of these barbaric individuals who take pride in killing.

Over 60 countries have come together to stop these atrocities being committed where ISIL has a presence. Why? It is because we all believe that we not only have an obligation but a responsibility toward the innocent victims of ISIL.

May I remind the House that it was Canada that spearheaded the discussion at the United Nations on the “responsibility to protect” following the Rwanda genocide. It proposed that when a state fails to protect its people, either through a lack of ability or a lack of willingness, the responsibility shifts to the broader international community.

ISIL has already arrived on the shores of Canada. I have talked to Christianne Boudreau, whose son Damian Clairmont died in Syria. We have lost two soldiers here in Canada because of individuals brainwashed by ISIL propaganda.

Our security service continues to disrupt those who choose to target Canadians. We have to stop them.

Their headquarters are in Syria, where they hide, because they know that they will not be attacked. Well, we have said many times that Assad must go. That remains our position. Assad must go, but ISIL must not find shelter in Syria. Hence, this resolution authorizing extending the mission on ISIL in Syria, before it becomes a global threat, is essential.

I will remind members that ISIL is already present in Libya, Nigeria, and Yemen. Recently we heard that ISIL is targeting American soldiers in the United States by naming them.

I fail to understand the logic of the opposition parties that fail to see the threat. Recently the Liberal candidate in Calgary Forest Lawn said that we should not be in Iraq. We should not be fighting ISIL. This was from a police officer who spent his entire career helping innocent victims. Why is he blind to helping innocent victims of a terrorist organization? Even Pope Francis has said that ISIL must be stopped.

However, ISIL members must also face justice. They must be held accountable, otherwise they will give rise to more terrorist groups, creating more havoc for peaceful societies around the globe.

As my friend Goldy Hyder said, “Why should we remain idle when there are those who are trying to destroy everything that we believe—everything that we love?”

Canada will not stand idle. I am very proud when I go to the Remembrance Day parade held in my riding where people stand with pride for how they fought for democracy, how they fought for human rights, how they fought to ensure countries remain free. These are people who gave their lives.

Contrary to what the NDP and the Liberals and are saying, this is the same party that without debate sent Canadian soldiers into Afghanistan because they felt it was the right thing to do. They did not even bring the debate to the House, as this government is doing so that they can talk. As far as the NDP is concerned, we know from the debates we had on Afghanistan that the NDP would oppose anything. They even opposed World War II, when the whole world was fighting evil.

This government, contrary to what the NDP is going to say and contrary to what the Liberal members are going to say, is going to stand for the long Canadian tradition of helping the innocent around the world.

When peace is threatened around the world, Canada will be there. Canada is going there. I am very proud to support this resolution.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, I have to suggest that it is no wonder that Canadians do not trust what they hear from members opposite. When they get excited about certain ideological things or they want to raise people's passion, they lose their connection with the truth and with reality. When the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs talks about the NDP's support for World War II, he was not here and neither was I, but I have read the record, and the motion in relation to World War II was supported by the NDP.

I criticize the member and the Minister of National Defence when they state publicly that the NDP does not support and never supported any military intervention, because he was here. Both of them were here when the two motions on Libya, the initial one and the first extension, were supported by the NDP. We got off board when the mission went off board and changed its mandate entirely to regime change. We saw the result of that.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, I was here too when we debated Afghanistan and when New Democrats opposed everything about defending Afghanistan. When they say that they have supported something like Libya, sometimes when they see public opinion has changed, they will change their position, but very soon they go back to their original position and stop supporting any of the missions.

New Democrats keep saying humanitarian aid. Yes, that is a very important component, but that is after what has happened. We have to stop the root cause of these refugees. As the Minister of National Defence said during question period, Syrians are saying they would like to go back home. They want to stay home. Let us now help them stay home. That should be the goal, and that can only be done if we fight the terrorist groups back there.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL

Mr. Speaker, I say to my hon. colleague opposite that public opinion is how you make decisions, but it is not necessarily how we make decisions. We make decisions in the best interests of Canadians for the long haul.

I would say to the government members opposite that what you are proposing in the motion has been unfocused. We have seen that from the beginning. We have seen an unending combat mission for the Canadian Armed Forces with no exit strategy being proposed by your government.

In addition to that, why did the government opposite feel it is important to extend this mission into Syria right now when all of the other countries, with the exception of the United States, have not done that and have refused to do that? Why is your government not prepared to provide more aid for refugees, more humanitarian efforts for the people of Syria, for the children and the many families that need it right now?

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Before I call on the parliamentary secretary, I have just a reminder in reference to using the “you” or “your” word. Try to direct commentary or questions through the Chair and to use the third person. That works out pretty well.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, let me remind the hon. member that our government has brought the debate into the House. When the Liberals were in power, they did not bring the debate to the House when they sent troops to Afghanistan. They made their own decision, so for them to say that they did the right thing is wrong.

Why are we going into Syria? It is because ISIL is in Syria. Their headquarters are in Syria. They run their murderous organization from there. It is therefore necessary to go and fight in Syria, where they are, so that we stop them. I have said before that Assad must go. We are not supporting Assad, but we need to stop ISIL, and ISIL is in Syria.

As for what this mission is, it is very clear in the motion. It is for one year. The objectives are there. Everything is there. They were briefed, as well as the opposition critic, so I do not understand what the whole problem is that they keep bringing up.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, welcome back. I am glad you are looking better.

I just heard the hon. member mention Afghanistan. Of course, the Liberals did not come to the House for that, and they did not have an exit strategy or say at the time what their exit strategy was. We were there for quite a long time.

We did agree with it because it was an honourable and appropriate mission. I think the hon. member mentioned that in his response. I wonder if he feels, as I do, that it is rather juvenile and naive to expect that one would have an exit strategy when one is beginning to win.

We are winning in Iraq. They are getting supplied by Syria—

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Order, please. We have just a short bit of time to get another quick response in. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, we do have an exit strategy. The exit strategy is when we defeat ISIL. That is the exit strategy.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, first let me commend my colleague, the member for Ottawa Centre and the official opposition foreign affairs critic, on a clear and forceful speech this morning outlining the NDP's position on the motion before the House on the government's intention to expand the combat mission in Iraq to Syria and nominally add another year to the mission. I also want to commend my other colleagues who have spoken in the debate thus far.

I also want to acknowledge the appalling and abhorrent abuses and atrocities committed in Iraq and elsewhere by this vicious group known variously as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh. These include mass killings, sexual violence, slavery, forced displacement, and the destruction of holy and historic sites. In Iraq alone, the violence has led to the displacement of 2.5 million civilians and left 5.2 million in need of humanitarian assistance.

ISIL claims an old goal of parts of Islam, one that was even promoted in the Middle East by the west for its own purposes 100 years ago, which is the establishment of a caliphate. Its methods are brutal and are opposed by the rest of Islam. ISIL is fomenting and carrying out a most extreme battle between the Shiite and Shia branches of Islam, extreme intolerance to the point of death, and a radical ideology that in no way represents Islam.

The current crisis has been created by ISIL in the vacuum of governmental authority in Iraq after 10 years of military intervention by the United States and others. In response, the current international coalition of some 60 nations, led by the United States, is now working to deal with the threat of ISIL and the fallout of its actions. The coalition has undertaken the so-called “five lines of effort”, of which only one involves military combat. What is more, only a small minority of coalition partners are actually engaged in military combat. Canada is one of them.

The government started last September with a 30-day mission to advise and assist the Kurdish peshmerga in northern Iraq. Then it became a six-month air combat mission with the assurances of no ground combat, no painting targets, and no accompaniment of the Kurds into combat. Now the government is nominally adding another year to Canada's commitment and expanding into Syria without its consent, a condition set by the Prime Minister last fall.

I continue to say “nominally add another year” for a very good reason, which is that the Conservative government, through statements by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of National Defence, and the Prime Minister himself, has made it clear that it is headed toward a long-term military combat mission for Canada with no clear end. We will be faced with this decision as long as the Conservatives are in government.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of National Defence, and the Prime Minister have all stated that ISIL poses a direct threat to Canada. The Prime Minister said:

We will deal with it as long as it is there. We will not stop dealing with it before that.

Hearing that, we know we are in this for the long haul.

We have to look at how the government has defined the threat. The Minister of Foreign Affairs said in his speech this morning that Canadians are under siege. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of National Defence, and the Prime Minister have repeatedly said that ISIL has declared war on Canada. The Minister of National Defence actually invoked Canada's independent right of self-defence in international law as a justification for the actions being taken by Canada.

These overblown statements by the most senior leaders of the Canadian government risk the credibility of Canada in the international world and the credibility of the government at home. They are clearly designed to raise the level of fear among Canadian citizens. What kind of respect and reputation in foreign affairs can Canada expect with this kind of leadership on the most serious matter of state—going to war in foreign countries?

We do know, of course, that terrorists exist in Canada. That is not new, but neither the attacker on Parliament Hill nor the one in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu was sent here by any foreign entity.

As pointed out in one of Canada's foremost national newspapers, TheGlobe and Mail, despite attempts by the Prime Minister to closely tie ISIS to the terrorist threat in Canada, the actual connections are thin to non-existent.

Instead of dealing with the actual threat in Canada by engaging in robust and well-resourced anti-radicalization and counter-radicalization programs here at home, by working with the Muslim community instead of alienating them, by preventing the flow of funds to ISIL, by confronting the dire humanitarian situation in a significant and increased manner, and by doing all of those things that my colleague the member for Ottawa Centre emphasized in his speech this morning and that are contained in the NDP amendment, the current government is going down the road of war from mission creep to mission leap with no clear goals, no honesty with the House of Commons and the Canadian people, no clear end or exit strategy, dubious legal justification and no end gain.

In a television appearance the other day the Minister of National Defence stated that the strategy has gone from one of containing ISIl to defeating it. We just heard the same thing from the parliamentary secretary. The Minister of Foreign Affairs said something else today. However, when the Minister of National Defence was asked what happens in the event that Canada reaches the objective of defeating ISIL, he admitted that he would need to look for a crystal ball. That will give members some idea about where the government thinks this is going and how it would lead to the actual resolve it is proposing. The objectives keep changing depending on who is speaking, and without a clear objective the uncertainty about this mission and its length is obvious.

We cannot trust what the government will do in the course of this military action. We found that out over the last six months as the mission “evolved” without Canadians knowing about it at the time, and evolved contrary to the express promises of the Prime Minister.

This time he has given us a hint. On Tuesday in the House the Prime Minister said, “We have made important deployments...those deployments could easily be changed”. He also opened the door to further expansion, saying, “we must avoid, if we can, taking on ground combat responsibilities in this region. We seek to have the Iraqis do this themselves”. With the government's record, that is far from reassuring.

Have we learned nothing from our experience most recently in Afghanistan and Libya? Neither can be called a success. In Libya it was relatively easy to destroy the Government of Libya, although that was not the stated intention going in, which has changed from the “responsibility to protect” to “regime change”. The result was a disaster of instability, chaos and a vacuum into which numerous terrorist groups, including al Qaeda and ISIL are now free to operate. Now we are dealing with the fallout from a 10-year military intervention in Iraq. When will we acknowledge the limitations and significant potential for failure and disaster by taking this military approach again and again?

Let me be clear. The NDP supports the coalition, as do 60 other nations, with only a handful of our western allies engaged in air strikes, and none engaged as Canada is on the ground. This debate is about what role Canada should play as part of the coalition. Canada must act, but we must do so in the way we can best add value to the international coalition, and in a way that respects international law and our values as a country. We cannot support the long-term, ill-defined, military combat mission proposed in the motion. We have therefore amended it to conform to the important steps that Canada can and should take, both within Canada and in the region, to support those affected and to help build the long-term stability of Iraq and the entire region.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Calgary Southeast Alberta

Conservative

Jason Kenney ConservativeMinister of National Defence and Minister for Multiculturalism

Mr. Speaker, I believe the member's statement was filled with a number of mischaracterizations of the government's policy. I strongly disagree with his conclusions.

First, the member characterized a small number of countries as being involved in the military campaign. In fact, there are 24 countries that have committed military assets to the campaign, amongst which are the social democratic governments of Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway and France. As well, other countries with military assets including involvement in the air campaign whose governments' decisions are supported by the social democratic parties are the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, and the democratic administration in the United States.

Parties of the centre left all through the democratic world see an urgent security imperative and humanitarian imperative to stop this genocide, to stop the metastasization of this genocidal terrorist organization into actually becoming something resembling a state. Why does the NDP take such a radical departure from the mainstream view on international security of the centre left parties?

Second, the member says we have no clear goal. The goal is very clear. It is to degrade ISIL to the point where it no longer constitutes a security threat to Canada or the world. That is what I characterize as defeating that organization.

The member says there is no exit strategy. We have 600 personnel in Kuwait and 69 in Erbil. The exit strategy is very simple. When the Government of Canada decides that their mission is over, they get on planes and return home.

Would the member please stop repeating this nonsense.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, I find it amusing that the minister likes to play with words. About the exit strategy, there is a well-known strategic matter that militaries should and can and do consider whenever they are engaged in battle. When they go into a mission, deciding how to get out is a very important part of deciding whether to go in.

As to the goal, the goal is expressed differently today. We heard from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, then we heard from the parliamentary secretary. We do not know what goal the government has.

We do not trust the government, frankly. I do not know what the other parties in other countries do with their governments, but we certainly have reason not to trust the government as to what they will do, when they will do and how far they go.

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask my fellow defence critic a question of his party's position.

First, I will say that our position is not to support this motion because we do not see it being in the national interest. The Liberal Party of Canada has never shied away from sending the Canadian Armed Forces into combat when it does serve the national interest.

We received a briefing yesterday. In that briefing, foreign affairs was very clear that it is important that Iraq's own army become sufficient to take on ISIL on its own. What it said is that it is becoming stronger thanks to advise and assist, and training efforts by coalition partners, including Canada.

We agree that these efforts should be behind the wire and not at the front lines. Why would the NDP not support behind the wire, back of the front line training that could help make the Iraqi forces stronger so that they themselves can protect their people and territory, and take it back from ISIL?

Military Contribution Against ISILGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that we have never objected to the notion of assisting the Iraqi army to train and transport weapons to the Iraqi army, which was done from the Czech Republic and from Albania. We supported that. That was never put to a motion in this House.

What was put to a motion in this House in early October was the whole package, which we voted against. We did have trouble, of course, getting the truth from the government during the month of September, even as to how many people were going and how many people were there. When questions were asked as to when they were going, the response was “What do you want? The air schedule? The flight numbers?” Those were the kinds of responses we got. It took about three weeks to find out how many were going.

We would certainly support efforts to assist the Iraqi army. What we ended up getting was a combat mission with combat involvement by those ground troops.