Debates of April 29th, 2015

Ongoing Situation in Ukraine

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, it is a privilege to stand here today to share some thoughts on what is a very important issue, not only here in Canada but around the world, as the world is very much focused on what is happening in Ukraine.

To make it very clear, we in the Liberal Party recognize the sovereignty of Ukraine. The western world and beyond have seen this horrible situation arise because of one leader from Russia, Putin, who has caused so much damage and destruction in an area of the world where there is an immense amount of pride and a desire to see Ukraine grow. The setback for this great nation is most unfortunate and very hard to describe.

When we look at where we are today and how it evolved, I would suggest that the real heroes are the people of Ukraine who took note of what was taking place, not that long ago, in terms of the European Union and the the trade association that was being rejected by the former president.

We witnessed the people of Ukraine filling the streets, in particular the Maidan, sending a very powerful message not only to the elite and the leadership in Ukraine but to people around the world.

The real heroes are those individuals who put their lives on the line, many of whom lost their lives in that battle. We appreciate the efforts of people from coast to coast to coast here in Canada who in their caring hearts want to see Canada play a role in what is happening in Ukraine. That has been a motivating factor in what we are debating today and in the many other debates we have had, for well over a year, related to Ukraine.

We have had members' statements. We have had not one but two emergency debates, I believe. Many members of Parliament have visited Ukraine. We have had hundreds of people of Ukrainian heritage participate in the presidential election and parliamentary elections. All of this is because Canada truly cares about what is happening in Ukraine.

I indicated what a privilege it was to have President Petro Poroshenko address the House of Common and acknowledge how much he appreciated the friendship and general goodwill from Canada, in particular from people of Ukrainian heritage who have been reaching out and supporting Ukraine in a time of need.

Very briefly, I would just commend the people of Winnipeg for their efforts. We have seen fundraising events. We have seen protests, in very cold temperatures.

Canada has been engaged not only at the political level, but at the grassroots level. It has been the people, whether they are the people of Ukraine or the people of Canada, who have been a driving force to ensure that we take the actions that are so very important to support Ukraine in its time of need.

What can we do? We are talking today about sending 200 Canadian forces personnel for training purposes to Ukraine. The leader of the Liberal Party has stated, virtually from day one, that we support Canadian military personnel going over and playing the role that has been asked of them. Whether it was the hundreds of millions of dollars in aid or other types of support to Ukraine, much like Canadians as a whole, we as a political entity have been very supportive.

We have some incredible individuals within our caucus, including our critic for foreign affairs, the member for Toronto Centre, and my colleague from Wascana. As it was suggested earlier, the leader of the Liberal Party has allowed me, by going to Ukraine on several occasions, to get a better sense of what is taking place. That has been very beneficial. The caucus discussions we have had have been very thorough. In fact, some might recall that back in February, on behalf of the Liberal Party, I raised the issue during question period of Canada possibly having a military presence and asked what the government was doing in that regard.

We recognize the phenomenal efforts of individuals as well as organizations, none more than the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. It has been fantastic in supporting members of all political parties in the House and providing updates. There are some valid issues that have been raised through the congress. I have attempted to raise them this evening. I very briefly will make reference to two of them on which it would be valuable to hear some dialogue. I recognize it is a very awkward statement for some members to provide comment on, but it is something that needs to be raised.

I raise them in the perspective of our allies and the people who support us. We need to work in sync with our allies and the United States. There are also things that can be done in providing some leadership.

The first issue of banning Russia from the SWIFT banking system is something of great concern. I do not know to what degree the government has raised this issue, so I put that on the table.

Second, earlier today I made reference to the number of deaths. There have been an estimated 7,000 deaths and 19,000 wounded. The issue of weaponry is one that has been brought to our attention. I suspect it has also been brought to the attention of the government.

To what degree has the government had some sort of discussion on those issues with our allies and the United States?

We have talked about trade this evening. That has some merit in the long-term relationship between Canada and Ukraine. After all, President Poroshenko addressed the House and said, in essence, that he would welcome Canada entering into trade with Ukraine. If we think about the European Union, the trade deal and so forth, it would seem to be a natural fit. However, I suspect we have to be very aggressive on that file.

I have appreciated the opportunity to share a few thoughts.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, I just want to get to some points that the member for Winnipeg North made.

He said that his leader has been supportive of Ukraine right from the get-go. I wonder how he squares the circle when his leader says that the Russians are going to be mad because they lost at hockey, and he makes those types of flippant comments, and tries to portray the invasion, occupation and illegal annexation of Crimea as a joke. How can the member say that his leader is supportive of Ukraine when he has not apologized for his comments? We know that he has been kind of vacant on this debate over the last year and a bit. We have not seen a strong statement from his leader.

I am really concerned that his former leader, Jean Chrétien, is off to Russia later this week to meet with President Putin. How does the member square that? He is going as an individual or maybe he is going on behalf of the Liberal Party; I do not know. Is he going to try to undermine Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I suspect that the member, with all due respect, is being somewhat selective in what he chooses to quote.

I can tell the member and individuals who might be watching this debate this evening that the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada has been very clear. He has indicated very clearly that we recognize the sovereignty of Ukraine, that an illegal occupation has taken place by Russia in Crimea and that we are concerned deeply, as Canadians as a whole are concerned, about what is taking place in Donetsk and Luhansk and the eastern portion of Ukraine.

The leader of the Liberal Party has been very vocal on the issue. Maybe the member is not in the same circles or listening to the leader, as he has participated in many discussions, in round tables and meetings with different groups. The leader of the Liberal Party is in fact quite passionate about the importance of Ukraine and recognizes just how important it is that we recognize the sovereignty of Ukraine and that we be there to support Ukraine in whatever way we can.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, considering the parties in this House have been remarkably supportive of a mission for which we do not have a lot of information, it is unfortunate that this has turned into some partisan sparring.

I want to ask the member for Winnipeg North what information his party has been privy to about the RADARSAT-2 data.

Has the member heard whether it is the case, as I have heard, that the Ukrainian government is dissatisfied with the quality of data it is now receiving from the Canadian Department of National Defence, and has asked for RADARSAT-2 stations to be set up in Ukraine to directly provide the data to it?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I am not as familiar with that. I suspect that if the member were to check with our foreign affairs critic, he would have a better sense. That is not what I understand to be the case. Generally speaking, I suspect that the results have been relatively positive in terms of how it has been received in Ukraine on a number of actions that the government has taken.

There are some areas which the government can improve upon. For example, when we talk about the individual economic sanctions, we have made reference to Igor Sechin. Why has he not been classified as an individual who should be sanctioned, when we see that other jurisdictions, in particular the U.S.A., have recognized him for who he is and have sanctioned that particular individual.

The government will often talk about numbers, that we have the highest number. It is not who has sanctioned the most individuals. It is the quality of the list. The government needs to improve the way in which it is looking at putting in some of the sanctions. It could in fact be doing a better job.

I do not know enough about the specific issue to which the leader of the Green Party makes reference to be able to provide further comment.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with my colleague, the member of Parliament for Etobicoke—Lakeshore.

I am very honoured to have this opportunity to participate in today's important debate on Canada's support for Ukraine. Also, as a member of Parliament for Mississauga East—Cooksville, I have many constituents who have Ukrainian roots. I would like to take this opportunity to thank them for their participation and contribution, and of course, to thank all the organizations already named by other colleagues during this debate.

I was shocked, like many Canadians, by Russia's brutal aggression against Ukraine in February last year, leading to the current unlawful and unacceptable occupation of Crimea. I was shocked, because Russia's actions in Ukraine show a fundamental disregard for the rules of the international system. This hostility is a threat to the people of Ukraine, to our friends and allies in Eastern Europe, and to the world order as we know it.

By annexing Crimea, Russia has violated its obligation toward Ukraine, as stipulated in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, and by annexing Crimea, Russia has abandoned its responsibility as a world leader, leaving the international community with no choice other than to take action in support of Ukraine and the region.

I am proud to say that Canada, as a strong member of NATO, has been involved from the very beginning. Indeed, a critical part of Canada's contribution to date is the remarkable work of the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces, and I would like to take some time to highlight the contributions of the the Royal Canadian Air Force through Operation REASSURANCE.

As members may know, a Canadian air task force participated in the NATO Baltic air policing mission from September to December 2014 in Lithuania. The NATO air policing mission aimed to preserve the integrity of NATO European air space and to safeguard NATO nations from air attacks. The assistance was crucial for member nations, such as the Baltic states of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania, as they lack the full range of air defence assets in their own militaries. This is increasingly important in the wake of Russia's aggression toward Ukraine.

Canada's contribution to this essential mission included approximately 135 personnel and four CF-18 Hornet fighter jets, along with a mission support element. In this mission, the Canadian air task force worked with NATO allies and responded to intrusions into Baltic air space.

While Canada formally handed over its NATO Baltic air policing mission responsibilities to Poland, the Royal Canadian Air Force continued to actively support operations until early January 2015 to ensure the continuity of operations and to support NATO allies and security partners in the interim transition period. The work of the Canadian Armed Forces in this mission allowed Canada to support NATO operations in the region while showing support for our allies in Eastern Europe.

In addition to the Royal Canadian Air Force's contribution to the NATO Baltic air policing mission, Canadian aviators also conducted interoperability training with NATO allies in Romania from May to August 2014. This training included air defence, air superiority, aerospace testing and evaluation, and tactical support. This air task force included six CF-18 Hornet fighter aircraft and about 200 personnel.

In conclusion, Canadians can be proud of Canada's support for NATO assurance measures to promote security and stability in the region. Thanks to the hard work of the Canadian Armed Forces, Canada is able to make a real and effective difference every time our military personnel deploy.

In collaboration with our allies, we are not only demonstrating alliance solidarity but we are sending a clear message to Russia that attempts to change borders by force must be stopped.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech. I know he has been very involved in the Ukraine file, like many other members here, and that he really cares about this cause.

I would like us to talk more specifically about what can be done now. I sometimes get the impression that we are focusing only on certain particular aspects of this issue. As a result, we are having trouble seeing the bigger picture with regard to what is really happening in Ukraine and how we can meet long-term objectives to help Ukraine develop and have better governance.

Does my colleague believe that we could boycott certain sectors in Russia and that we could add, as we talked about many times today, some of Putin's close friends who have not yet made Canada's sanction list? In my opinion, there are some things we could do that could have a very positive impact.

One of the most important points that we have not talked very much about today is corruption. As long as Ukraine is grappling with corruption with regard to investment in general, it will be very difficult for that country to develop in the longer term.

Does my colleague think that these measures could be just as beneficial as other measures we have taken to date?

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have had an opportunity to be with the member opposite as election observers in the last presidential election in Ukraine. She spoke about many things that can and should be done in Ukraine. However, I will focus on this mission of sending 200 personnel who are going to train the Ukrainian army.

I have asked for this since the very beginning. It is important for Ukraine and every country to have a well-trained military. The advantage that Ukraine has is the territory to set up a training base to get the assistance, training and eventually better equipment not only from Canada but also other allies, so that it can face Russia's aggressions with force.

Unfortunately, what Putin is showing is force, and force can only be stopped by force. I hope it will come to a point where he, or whoever comes after him, can sit at the table and resolve the situation through diplomatic channels and not by force or military actions.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I will pose a question that was sent to me. Therefore, I am asking this question on behalf of someone else.

The member made reference to the 200. How will 200 military servicemen help prepare the Ukrainian military who are facing 60 times that number of Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine? Approximately 12,000 Russian soldiers are in eastern Ukraine right now.

Does the member have any sense as to how the 200 was determined? It is an interesting question.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I indicated, these are instructors who are going to train. There are also instructors coming from the U.S. and European countries. Therefore, there will be a larger group. They are not going there to fight the Russian army. They are going there to provide basic training and to assist Ukraine in organizing its army, so it can eventually face Putin and protect its own territory.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and for La Francophonie]

Mr. Chair, on August 24, 1991, Ukraine declared to the world that it would no longer be part of the Soviet Union, it would seek its own independent and democratic future.

In the very early years of the country's independence, Ukraine had to make many tough decisions as it established its sovereignty.

Ukraine had to make some difficult decisions in establishing its sovereignty.

One of the most important choices for the Government of Ukraine was to rid the country of nuclear weapons and to accede to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Taken in the spirit of non-proliferation and disarmament, and contributing to global security, this decision was applauded by the world community.

In return, the Government of Ukraine sought guarantees in signing the Budapest memorandum on security assurances on December 5, 1994. This document governed the removal of weapons of mass destruction from Ukrainian territory in exchange for assurances from its partners and co-signatories the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia. The signatories committed to respecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine.

They agreed that they would refrain from the threat and use of force. They guaranteed, also, that their weapons would never be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. They reaffirmed their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine if it should become a victim of an act of aggression.

Russia, through its reckless and cynical policies, has broken its commitments. Instead of being a guarantor of Ukraine's security, it has become its biggest threat. In March 2014, Russia annexed Crimea illegally. Today it continues to maintain troops in eastern Ukraine and to provide weapons and support to insurgents there. Russia is determined to break up Ukraine.

Russia continues to conduct a relentless media campaign propagating falsehoods about the Ukrainian government and the political and economic reforms the country is trying to achieve.

This aggression is an attempt to undermine efforts by the government and the people of Ukraine to change direction towards democracy, human rights and the rule of law. Russia's complete disregard for basic international norms and its own commitments has necessitated a strong international response to assist Ukraine in defending its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

I am proud to say that Canada has stepped up. In response to a request from the Ukrainian government and in collaboration with international partners, Canada has provided non-lethal military equipment to the Government of Ukraine to address a number of the critical needs of Ukraine's forces. Specifically, these contributions, which include night-vision goggles, medical kits, a mobile field hospital, high-frequency radios and ordnance disposal equipment, enhance the capabilities of the Ukrainian armed forces in their fight to defend their country's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Canada has also recently announced a significant military contribution to assist Ukraine in building the capacity of its armed forces. These initiatives are part of a whole-of-government effort to make sure we are providing the best possible support to our partners in Ukraine.

To this end, the departments of National Defence and Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development have worked together closely over the past year to deliver timely and effective support to Ukraine's security and defence forces, including through jointly delivered material assistance and direct collaboration on the development of the recently announced military training initiative at every stage.

In addition to training and equipment support, Canada is also working to build capacity and reform Ukraine's security institutions. Canada is contributing to the NATO Ukraine trust funds, with a focus on assisting Ukraine in developing its command, control, communications and computer capabilities.

Canada is also supporting efforts to help reform Ukraine's logistics systems and increase its interoperability with NATO. Military capacity-building programming to Ukraine includes the deployment of a Canadian security expert to the NATO liaison office in Ukraine, as well as military police training.

We do not stand alone in our efforts to support Ukraine's security. Through the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, or OSCE, we are supporting efforts to ensure that the international community is aware of developments on the ground. Canada is a strong supporter of the OSCE's special monitoring mission, an unarmed civilian mission that aims to reduce tensions and foster stability and security.

We have deployed 22 Canadians who are experts in security, human rights, the rule of law and media to the monitoring mission. Canada has a long history of contributing to free and fair elections in Ukraine and the 2014 presidential and parliamentary elections were no exception. Through bilateral and OSCE elections observation missions, Canada sent some 300 Canadian observers to each election, contributing to Ukraine's efforts to elect officials in free, fair and democratic elections.

Unfortunately, Russian policies and actions have a destabilizing impact across the region. For this reason, the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and International Development is contributing to the NATO-accredited centres of excellence in the Baltic states to help strengthen the regional framework in areas of cyber defence, energy security and strategic communications.

While Canada has done much to help Ukraine meet its security challenges, the needs of the country are still greater. The Government of Canada will continue to work with our Ukrainian and international partners to further Ukraine's security.

Canada will not rest, nor back away, when the security of Ukraine, a close friend and partner, continues to be threatened by a belligerent neighbour.

[The Chair, NDP, Joe Comartin]

It being 11:48 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 53.1 the committee will rise and I will leave the chair.

(Government Business No. 19 reported)

[The Deputy Speaker, Joe Comartin]

Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 11:48 p.m.)