House of Commons Hansard #212 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was s-4.

Topics

Public SafetyOral Questions

2:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, my constituents are concerned about violent crime. They know that the first duty of any government is to protect Canadians from dangerous and violent criminals, particularly those in gangs. That is why we are pleased that our Conservative government passed over 30 measures to get tough on crime. Shockingly, most of these were obstructed and opposed by the Liberal leader. The leader for the Liberals even said that they would repeal all mandatory prison sentences in the Criminal Code.

Could the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety update the House on the actions this government is taking to address these serious issues?

Public SafetyOral Questions

2:55 p.m.

Scarborough Centre Ontario

Conservative

Roxanne James ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, that position is absolutely ridiculous. It is not only our government that says so. Here is a quote. “There is a place for mandatory minimums particularly for violent crimes”. Who said that? Why none other than Liberal candidate Bill Blair who also supports mandatory minimums for gun crimes in principle.

While the Liberals debate whether or not dangerous and violent criminals belong behind bars, on this side of the House our Conservative government will continue to keep Canadians safe.

Public ServiceOral Questions

2:55 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives are once again using the omnibus budget bill to bypass and weaken the rules of collective bargaining in the public service. Despite the phony pretence of open negotiations, the President of the Treasury Board has hijacked collective bargaining to impose a settlement. The reality is that he came to dictate, not negotiate.

Why will the Conservatives not respect collective bargaining and stop treating our public servants with such disdain?

Public ServiceOral Questions

3 p.m.

Okanagan—Coquihalla B.C.

Conservative

Dan Albas ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board

Mr. Speaker, economic action plan 2015 reaffirms the government's commitment to pursue a new disability and sick leave management system. We continue to negotiate with the public service and our objectives are clear: we will not pay sick leave to people who are not sick.

The government's continued overarching goals in these negotiations are to reach agreements on total public service compensation that are fair and reasonable to both the employees and taxpayers. These changes do not impose a legislative regime.

Canadian HeritageOral Questions

3 p.m.

NDP

Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, that was in the budget, but Quebec City is still waiting to see whether the 2017 Tall Ships Regatta will finally get the money they were promised. The mayor of Quebec City is getting impatient. An agreement was to be signed before February. That was pushed back to the end of April. Now we find out that it has been pushed back even further. This is a mess, all because the government has not determined the amount of its contribution.

This is the eleventh hour. Will the government pick up the phone and reassure the organizers so that they can finally move forward with their plans?

Canadian HeritageOral Questions

3 p.m.

Saint Boniface Manitoba

Conservative

Shelly Glover ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages

Mr. Speaker, as I said many times, and what the hon. member does not seem to realize, is that we have been in talks with Rendez-vous naval de Québec for a long time now. Things are moving along.

Canada 150 has to be a celebration for all Canadians, including those from Quebec. The hon. member needs to be patient and understand that the organizers of Rendez-vous naval de Québec are very pleased with us and the fact that we included them in budget 2015. They are ready to move forward and so are we.

TaxationOral Questions

3 p.m.

Conservative

David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Mr. Speaker, Canadian families know that our Conservative Party is the only party that trusts moms and dads to make the best decisions for their families. That is why we are introducing the family tax cuts and the universal child care benefit, which will save the average Canadian family nearly $1,200.

Could the minister please update the House on the benefit that families in my riding and all across Canada will receive under these programs?

TaxationOral Questions

3 p.m.

Nepean—Carleton Ontario

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre ConservativeMinister of Employment and Social Development and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, every family will benefit from the family tax cut benefits.

The Liberals are really scrambling today after it having been revealed that there are billions of dollars in uncosted spending in their plan. They have actually changed the bar graph in that plan only one week after introducing it. Even after they get rid of the universal child care benefit, the child tax benefit, the tax-free savings account and income splitting, they are still billions of dollars short.

Perhaps that is why the Liberal leader said today, “benefiting every single family is not what is fair”. He is absolutely wrong. Our government will benefit every single family. That is what is fair.

PensionsOral Questions

3 p.m.

Independent

Massimo Pacetti Independent Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Mr. Speaker, Canadians plan for their retirement based on what they are promised through their pension plans. Any changes after the fact to pension benefits can cause retirees financial hardship through no fault of their own, as we have seen in many cases, including Nortel pensioners.

Since the government is transitioning away from defined benefit pensions for federally regulated workers, federal private sectors workers and crown corporation employees, will the government commit to exempting current employees from such a change?

PensionsOral Questions

3 p.m.

Crowfoot Alberta

Conservative

Kevin Sorenson ConservativeMinister of State (Finance)

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that retirees and all Canadians are benefiting from our low-tax plan. I would note that according to a retirement study by McKinsey & Company, 83% of Canadians are on track for a comfortable retirement. That is why we want to enhance their retirement savings.

We have lowered taxes. We have brought forward new incentives for Canadians to save for retirement. Those incentives include the family tax cut plan, pension income splitting and tax-free savings accounts.

We know the opposition would take these away. We know the opposition believes in a high-tax plan for seniors and for all Canadians. Canadians know they are better off—

PensionsOral Questions

3 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Montcalm.

TaxationOral Questions

3 p.m.

Independent

Manon Perreault Independent Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, the government is distancing itself from the majority of Canadian families with its tax policies, such as income splitting, which will only benefit a handful of wealthy Canadians. The government's current tax policies show its lack of universality.

Sound management is important, but can the government review some aspects of the budget and increase its commitment to Canadian families and seniors?

TaxationOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Nepean—Carleton Ontario

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre ConservativeMinister of Employment and Social Development and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question about seniors.

We want to help seniors by lowering their taxes. Income splitting for seniors will help them save money. The tax-free savings account will enable seniors to save without having to pay tax on interest and dividends. I want to point out that 60% of the people who max out their tax-free savings accounts earn less than $60,000 a year.

TaxationOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

That concludes question period for today.

The hon. member for Sackville—Eastern Shore.

TaxationOral Questions

May 12th, 2015 / 3:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, unfortunately, the Minister of Veterans Affairs misled Canadians in the House, so I would like to ask unanimous consent for the following motion, which coincidentally, is currently on the order paper standing in the name of the Minister of Veterans Affairs.

I move that Bill C-58, an act to amend the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act and to make consequential amendments to another act now be read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

TaxationOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Does the hon. member have unanimous consent to move this motion?

TaxationOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

TaxationOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

There is no consent.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill S-4, An Act to amend the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Speaker's RulingDigital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

There are five motions in amendment sitting on the notice paper for the report stage of Bill S-4. Motions Nos. 1 to 5 will be grouped for debate and voted upon according to the voting pattern available at the table.

Motions in AmendmentDigital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

moved:

Motion No. 1

That Bill S-4 be amended by deleting the long title.

Motions in AmendmentDigital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

moved:

Motion No. 2

That Bill S-4 be amended by deleting Clause 1.

Motion No. 3

That Bill S-4 be amended by deleting Clause 6.

Motions in AmendmentDigital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

moved:

Motion No. 4

That Bill S-4 be amended by deleting Clause 7.

Motions in AmendmentDigital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

moved:

Motion No. 5

That Bill S-4 be amended by deleting Clause 10.

Motions in AmendmentDigital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately we will oppose Bill S-4 for the reasons I will provide in my speech.

What I am especially disappointed about is that we all voted in good faith for this bill to be studied in committee before second reading. We told ourselves that we could perhaps work together to improve the bill and eliminate the most problematic parts or ensure that it would truly protect Canadians in the digital age. Unfortunately, that did not happen, even though we know that there are more and more risks associated with protecting personal information online.

For more than four years, we have been in Parliament with the same government that rejects all our motions and refuses to work with us in committee. This time, I do not know why, but I had hoped that we could work together.

Usually, a bill is sent to committee before second reading because there are problems with the bill and we want to make changes. Perhaps we want to change something or make changes to PIPEDA that go beyond the immediate scope of the bill. We had hoped to work together. Unfortunately, that did not happen.

That is why I moved three motions today to remove the most problematic sections from this bill. These motions will be voted on together.

We heard over and over that these two sections—clauses 6 and 7—are extremely problematic. These clauses will make it easier to share people's personal information without their consent and without them even knowing that their personal information is being shared. The government is trying to broaden the scope of situations in which information can be shared without consent. That is extremely problematic.

Obviously, there are sometimes extreme circumstances that require personal information to be shared. Such situations exist. Everyone knows that. We take issue with the fact that there is no transparency. There is no mechanism in place to ensure that this information is shared only in exceptional and urgent circumstances. What is more, the threshold of reasonable suspicion is very low.

As a result, we voted against these clauses when the bill was examined in committee. Unfortunately, the Conservatives decided to go ahead with them anyway.

We even proposed amendments to improve these clauses by restricting the kind of situations in which information sharing can happen and creating a system that encourages transparency. There has to be an accountability or oversight mechanism to ensure that this information sharing only happens under exceptional circumstances. That is really not the case.

As I said, we proposed amendments to improve the bill because everyone in the House of Commons knows that protection of personal information is a big issue right now, one that is really important to our constituents.

I even give computer security courses to seniors in my community because they want to understand how to use new technology and they want to have a certain level of confidence when it comes to protecting their information and their identity.

Everyone agrees that this is an important issue and that we have to update PIPEDA to ensure that it can better address the threats present in the digital age in the 21st century.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives' approach was to put something on the table and refuse to accept any amendments or listen to what the witnesses had to say. They just forged ahead.

All of the parties proposed amendments, except for the Conservatives, of course, and all of the amendments were rejected. The NDP even proposed 18 separate amendments that were all rejected.

Most of all, I deplore the fact that from the beginning of the committee's examination of this bill before second reading, the Conservatives said they did not want to change anything. Why should we bother voting to send something to committee before second reading if, from the beginning, the Conservatives have already decided that they will not change anything? It makes no sense. It also demonstrates bad faith. We are supposed to examine bills with an open mind and a desire to improve them, correct their shortcomings and work together. That is what it means to live in a democracy.

The Conservatives even insulted some of the witnesses during the study in committee, telling them that they could choose to either vote for the bill in its current form or accept that there would be no changes to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act before the next election. I understand we are having an election soon, but the Conservatives had plenty of opportunities to modernize the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. There was Bill C-12, which simply disappeared because of prorogation. The bill that I introduced in the House contained very similar provisions to the ones found in Bill S-4, but the Conservatives voted against my bill.

These changes could have already been in the legislation. Unfortunately, the government suddenly says the timeframe is too tight and the only thing we can do is pass the bill as is despite all its problems and flaws. The government simply wants to pass the bill as is. I think the Conservatives are being disingenuous about this. To tell all the witnesses that the choice is between this bill and nothing is really insulting to them after they took the time to travel here to share their opinions and present their proposed changes.

Since the government rejected all the amendments and we did not manage to improve the bill, the NDP will have to vote against it even though we recognize that some provisions are a step forward, although they do not go as far as they should. Nonetheless, I cannot vote in favour of a bill that will create more opportunities for personal information to be shared without consent, without authorization, without the individual concerned being informed, and without a proper oversight mechanism. That is what this bill would do.

Clauses six and seven, which my motions would eliminate, will weaken the protection of privacy by allowing the sharing of personal information without the consent and authorization of the individual concerned. I already stated that the threshold was very low. I proposed raising the threshold so that the organization asks questions before sharing this information. The Conservatives refused. The Privacy Commissioner even raised concerns about this provision. He said that it could open the door to abuses, and that is what we found. This government made 1.2 million requests to Internet service providers to obtain personal information as a result of flaws in the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. There have been actual abuses. As members of Parliament, we cannot consciously open the door to further abuses. However, that is exactly what clauses six and seven of this bill do.

I will now read what the Privacy Commissioner said at the February 17, 2015, meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology:

Under the proposed amendments, potentially any organization will be able to collect or disclose personal information for a broad range of purposes without any mechanism to identify which organizations are collecting or disclosing the information and why.

This is very problematic because according to its title, this bill is supposed to create the digital privacy act. I am sorry, but there is a problem when parts of the bill contradict its objective. You do not have to be a genius to understand that.

I would like to share a quote from Michael Geist, who also testified at the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology on March 10, 2015:

...the broad provision that we have here opening the door to massive expansion of non-notified voluntary disclosure without any of the kinds of limitations that we typically find even the courts asking for should be removed....With respect, it is both not well studied and ought to be fixed. Canadians deserve better.

He also took the opportunity to disagree with the process that the Conservatives put in place and the idea that we should pass this bill without amendment because we are out of time.

The warning mechanism for a data security breach proposed in the current bill is another problem. Many parliamentarians understand the need for such a mechanism. This was brought up in the committee on which I sit, the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, while we were studying this bill.

As the Privacy Commissioner has said many times, we must require that organizations notify individuals when their data are compromised. In a number of cases, as with Target and Home Depot, the data of thousands of people have been compromised or lost completely. Since the people in question are not always informed, they are not in a position to protect the compromised data. That is a huge problem.

Bill S-4 fixes this problem but does not really go about it in the right way. The proposed model is much too subjective because it allows the organizations themselves to determine whether a data breach creates a real risk of significant harm to an individual. The organizations therefore have to police themselves. They also decide for themselves whether to inform, or not, the Privacy Commissioner and the individual affected of any data breaches that occur.

The model that I am proposing is more objective. I proposed it before when we were examining this bill in committee and when we were examining my private member's bill, Bill C-475, which could have been passed already had the Conservatives not voted against it. This model would give the Privacy Commissioner the power to determine whether a security breach is serious enough to inform the individual. Thus, it would not be up to the organizations to do it.

What is more, PIPEDA covers all organizations, from convenience stores to large digital technology corporations. Some organizations, such as convenience stores that have only a couple of employees, are unable to determine how serious a data breach is. It is therefore important to allow them to turn to an expert, namely the Privacy Commissioner.

I would like to read a quote from John Lawford, the executive director and general counsel for the Public Interest Advocacy Centre, who testified before the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology on February 19, 2015. He said:

Unfortunately, Bill S-4, as written, will very likely result in fewer reported breaches than even now and operate in an opposite manner. Namely, it will create a culture of fear, recrimination, and non-reporting. Bill S-4, incentivizes not reporting data breaches by leaving the determination of whether a breach creates a real risk of significant harm to an individual totally in the hands of the organization that suffers the breach. This obvious conflict of interest is fatal to the purpose of the bill as there is no advantage to a company to report and every advantage to hide a data breach.

As he said, the proposed mechanism is much too subjective. It is unfortunate that the Conservatives refused to implement a more objective system.

This bill does not give the Privacy Commissioner the power to issue orders. The former privacy commissioner, Jennifer Stoddart, asked for that repeatedly. Provincial privacy commissioners also wanted it because they have that power.

All too often, organizations do not act on recommendations made following an investigation by the Privacy Commissioner. Big international companies do not think they need to comply because it is just Canada, but Canada's laws must be respected. When our laws and the Privacy Commissioner's recommendations are constantly ignored, we need to fix that problem.

We could give the Privacy Commissioner the power to issue orders, but there is nothing about that in the bill. Instead, it calls for compliance agreements, which do not go far enough and do not really motivate organizations to act on the recommendations because they are not orders. We wanted to fix this problem, but once again our proposal was rejected.

I would have liked them to adopt the model I proposed in Bill C-475. I suggested following the usual investigation procedures, after which the commissioner would issue orders and set a deadline for compliance. The parties would act in good faith. For example, if problems were not resolved within a year, the Federal Court would impose a fine.

This system would give organizations that comply with the law and the recommendations a chance, with no repercussions whatsoever. However, if we do not find a solution and do not encourage organizations to respect privacy, there will continue to be abuse, and the law and the Privacy Commissioner's recommendations will continue to be ignored.

Bill S-4 is a step in the right direction, but it does not go far enough. That is what I said throughout the entire study. As a matter of fact, some witnesses also said it was important to have a system that truly encourages privacy protection.

What is more, given that we studied this bill in committee before second reading, we had the opportunity to correct other problems with the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, because we knew there were some flaws. Under what circumstances is it acceptable for the government to submit at least 1.2 million requests a year for personal information to Internet service providers? This is a serious problem, but nothing is being done about it.

I thought we could sit down as parliamentarians and come up with ways to put oversight and transparency mechanisms in place and even get rid of these flaws and abuses. This was a missed opportunity.

Recently, the Supreme Court established in Spencer what was reasonable and not with regard to privacy protection. Unfortunately, that ruling was not taken into consideration during the study in committee. The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act was not amended in order to make it consistent with the Supreme Court ruling. That needs to be done. The government needs to show some vision and correct these flaws to provide better protection of Canadians' privacy because that is what Canadians deserve.