Debates of Feb. 24th, 2016

Canada's Contribution to the Effort to Combat ISIL

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, on the contrary, our government has been very clear, during the debate and during our process, that we will take a holistic, whole-of-government approach to this.

We will involve more than one minister. We will involve the Minister of International Development and La Francophonie, the Minister of National Defence, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

What we are saying is that we need to provide regional stability to the area. We need to make sure that our men and women who put themselves in harm's way have the right equipment. We are trying to bring regional stability to that area.

That is a whole approach that we need to take. That is an approach that our allies have asked us to take. That is the approach that the Canadian government has decided to take.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the member's effort to bring in the opinions of others.

I just want to get his comment on the opinion expressed by Colonel Steve Warren, spokesman for Operation Inherent Resolve:

....everybody likes to focus on the airstrikes....because we get good videos out of it and it's interesting because things blow up--but don't forget a pillar of this operation, a pillar of this operation, is to train local ground forces. That is a key and critical part.

Does the member think that this mission, as proposed to this House, responds to the concern of Colonel Warren?

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, absolutely, it responds.

It responds to the needs of the mission. We are trying our best as a government to respond to that mission, to align our needs and the needs of the coalition, to make sure that bring regional stability to that area, but more importantly that we have a meaningful impact on this mission.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, I will start by thanking hon. members for the opportunity to take part in this important discussion regarding Canada's refocused approach to the situation in Iraq and Syria.

As we debate our future involvement, I would like to take a step back for a moment from the military operation itself and thank the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces for all they do. These courageous individuals put their lives on hold, leave their families behind, and risk everything. They make these sacrifices so we can enjoy the peace, security, and freedom we too often take for granted. They do all of this with honour, professionalism, and humility.

There are countless examples of individuals who have defended Canadian values at home and abroad throughout our proud history. In fact, as we stand here today discussing Canada's future involvement in Iraq, we should remember that for our Canadian Armed Forces members, this debate is about so much more than words.

They are out there now, helping to keep us safe, protecting our way of life, and promoting a Canadian vision of a more peaceful world, a more tolerant world. They are serving in Iraq and in many other international missions. They are serving here at home and on daily operations, protecting our airspace and maritime approaches with NORAD. These people deserve our thanks and support. They deserve to know that we stand behind them always. They deserve to know that we recognize their sacrifice.

There are many ways to do this. I realize that some of these may not seem like much, but it is often the little things that mean the most. Quite possibly the easiest way to show gratitude to our troops is by taking a moment to post a message on the online message board that can be found on the forces.gc.ca web page. Not only is this easy to do, it is free. It can be done as a group project, together as a family or in the classroom.

We can also buy a variety of official Support Our Troops merchandise from a CANEX store in communities or from their online site. All proceeds from the sales of Support Our Troops items are in turn reinvested directed into morale and welfare programs for members and their families. This is a very important initiative.

We can also donate directly to Military Family Resource Centres. These centres, located on bases across the country, provide support to the families of CAF members who are dealing with the challenges of military life.

For those of us who are looking for other ways to contribute financially, there are many programs available under the Support Our Troops banner. I'll mention just a few.

First, the military families fund provides support to military families who are experiencing urgent and extraordinary financial demands. It also offers rehabilitation, education, and financial assistance to families of military members who have experienced injuries, or death, due to their service.

The soldier on fund supports ill and injured military personnel with permanent or chronic disabilities. This fund helps both serving and retired members and their families maintain an active and healthy lifestyle.

The hospital comforts program provides for the care and comfort of Canadian Armed Forces members confined to hospital from injury, illness, accident, or surgery.

Then there is Boomer's legacy. This program was created in honour of Corporal Andrew “Boomer” Eykelenboom, a dedicated soldier and a Canadian Forces medic who was killed in Afghanistan in 2006. The mission of Boomer's legacy is “helping our soldiers help others”. The program honours Boomer's humanitarian spirit, so that members of the Canadian Armed Forces who are serving on deployments around the world can help those most affected by war and poverty. It places a particular emphasis on providing health care and education services for women and children and the most vulnerable.

As Canadians, we are known for our generosity and strong social programs. It should be no different when it comes to supporting our military members and their families. The men and women who work for these programs would be grateful for any contribution.

We owe a lot to our military members. I think it is only fitting, as we look at the way forward, that we remember that they are the one essential piece in all of this.

The success of the Canadian contribution to this military mission ultimately depends on the people who carry it out. We ought to take time to recognize this in whichever way we can.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, I have been asking government members throughout this debate if they would be willing to use the word “genocide” to describe the violence against religious minorities committed by Daesh. It is a simple question.

Of course, we agree that it is terrible what is happening, but is the government willing to identify that what is happening, what is being done by Daesh, is genocide? Is it willing to use that word?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, my riding of Vaughan—Woodbridge encompasses a large Iraqi, Christian, and Kurdish community. I am all too familiar with what has occurred in that region over the last several years. I have reached out to many members of the community and recognize what has gone on there.

It is important that we as a government maintain our presence in the region, which we are doing. We are putting heavy emphasis on humanitarian aid for the region. It is over $1 billion over three years to help those most impacted by what is going on there and what Daesh is doing.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to be able to ask my colleague a question. I thank him for his speech.

Over the past few days, we have not heard anything in this debate about the deradicalization efforts we could be making in Canada. NDP members are practically the only ones talking about it. Nevertheless, during a recent visit, the Secretary-General of the United Nations congratulated the City of Montreal on its efforts to combat radicalization.

It is unfortunate that the government is not talking about a strategy and funding to combat radicalization in our country. ISIL's recruitment of foreign fighters is a problem. We need deradicalization programs in Canada, and not just local efforts, although those are important too. We need to develop a national strategy to limit radicalization so that foreign fighters do not leave their countries to join ISIL.

Can my colleague assure us that his government will commit to making bigger investments to combat radicalization? It would be a very effective way of limiting ISIL's numbers.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, our government's policy is clear. Our policy is to refocus our efforts in Iraq and Syria and bring a whole of government approach to enhance security and stability to the region. We have laid out these initiatives, including a contribution of $800 million in humanitarian assistance over three years and a further $300 million to help rebuild infrastructure within the region.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Speaker, I welcome my colleague's comments, especially those about how members and the public who may be listening to this debate can support the men and women in uniform and veterans who no longer wear the uniform.

I want to ask my colleague about the internal defence programs for supporting injured men and women in uniform, that is the JPSU, the joint personnel support unit, and the IPSCs, the integrated personnel support centres. When the Liberals were in opposition they said these units were not doing a good enough job but there was no real improvement. Now it is clear. They certainly were not doing a good enough job.

What does the member think about the idea of reviewing and improving the support provided internally to injured forces members?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, our platform laid out a robust policy to help soldiers returning from missions all over the world. We laid it out during the election. Over the coming weeks, we will see it. It will help soldiers reintegrate into society through education, as one example. If they are injured when they return, they will receive appropriate funds to help them contribute back to Canadian society.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Jonquière, Canada Post.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to split my time with the hon. member for Banff—Airdrie.

I rise today to address the Liberal government's motion to cease air operations in Iraq and Syria.

The Liberals state that they want to redefine our contribution to the effort to defeat ISIL, in part with the addition of additional members of the Canadian Armed Forces but while removing air support at the same time. However, removing air support will only serve to put our men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces at greater risk.

I agree with the assertion of the Minister of National Defence when he said that we have to win the war on the ground, but doing so without overhead protection from our CF-18 fighter jets makes no sense. How can we send members of the Canadian Armed Forces into the line of fire without adequate air guard?

As minister of National Defence and Foreign Affairs, I travelled to the Middle East on a number of occasions, and time and time again, my counterparts in Kuwait, Iraq, and the United Arab Emirates reiterated just how important Canada's contribution was with our CF-18s.

Our fighter jets have been very effective in taking out ISIL and other targets as well as in depleting ISIS resources. The Canadian Armed Forces, by all accounts, have severely disabled ISIS' infrastructure and senior personnel. They have truncated its ability to manoeuver in large numbers, shattered moral, and allowed Iraqi forces to retake towns like Ramadi. They have effectively taken out oil resources and have thus curtailed ISIS' means of funding its so-called caliphate.

Following up on the comment by the Minister of National Defence about winning the war on the ground, this is exactly what Iraqi officials told me when I met with them. They said that it has to be won on the ground, but it has to be won by them. They said that we are making it possible, with our air strikes, for them to hold onto the territory they have within Iraq. It has allowed them to retake the land that was taken from them, but they need that support in the air. They made that very clear.

The deployment of the RCAF Griffon helicopters for close combat aerial support in fact is inherently more dangerous than bombing ISIS' fighting positions with our CF-18s. What the new government has accomplished in forging ahead with its plan is to highlight just how incoherent it is.

The Conservative Party of Canada supports providing our troops with whatever equipment it needs, whether it is helicopters or fighter jets. The Liberal government has no justification whatsoever for withdrawing the CF-18s. I have to tell members that I am disappointed. Before this debate even began, the Liberals ceased the air strike operations.

We owe it to the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces to offer them the confidence that we have their backs and are defending them from above while they are engaging with the Iraqis and Syrians on the ground. The parents, sons, daughters, husbands, and wives of Canadian Armed Forces personnel deserve to know that their government is doing everything possible to ensure the safety of their loves ones while they defend their rights, freedom, and democracy on the ground. What they do not want to hear is that their government is incoherent in terms of what it is that it is trying to do.

I have to point out that the Liberals are offside with Canadians. Not surprisingly, 63% of Canadians say that they would like to see Canada continue bombing ISIS at its current rate or go further and increase the number of bombing missions it conducts.

Canada understands that ISIS has declared war on Canada and our allies. The Liberals should understand that. Canadian Forces involved in the advise and assist mission have already been drawn into firefights. We have to make sure that we do not put them at greater risk, and I believe that is exactly what will take place if we get out of the business of air strikes.

I emphasize that the men and women of the Canadian Forces warrant the assurance of knowing that they are protected at all times, in particular by our CF-18 fighter jets. The Iraqis understand that very clearly, as do our other coalition allies. They know, and we know, that ISIS seeks to destroy the very fabric of our nation. The Prime Minister himself has stated that people terrorized by ISIS every day do not need our vengeance. They need our help.

Canada continues in the fight against ISIS, and the work we do is an important part of the coalition. How is it that our Prime Minister does not understand that we cannot begin to help the people of Syria and Iraq unless we confront ISIS? It is only in its defeat that the people of that region will be able to regain their sovereignty and rebuild their lives.

I admire our allies. They are not sitting on the sidelines and watching while others do the heavy lifting. As I said before, in my role as the defence minister and foreign affairs minister, all our coalition partners thanked Canada profusely for the effective role our CF-18s played in preventing ISIS from overtaking their respective countries. This is what we are talking about: preventing ISIS in Iraq and ISIS in Syria from forcing its ideology on not just those countries but on the rest of the free world. That, of course, includes Canada. Standing on the sidelines has never been our way.

I remember in the early 1990s, after Iraq invade Kuwait, former Prime Minister Mulroney calling us into the government lobby and telling us what had happened and talking to us about his conversation with the president of the United States. Prime Minister Mulroney made it clear that it is not Canada's role to stand on the sidelines when people are being abused. There was unanimous support for the idea of standing with Kuwait at that particular time.

I have to say that on the occasions when I have visited Kuwait, the people there have made it clear again and again that they are appreciative of what Canada did when they were in desperate need.

That is exactly what I hear from our allies in Iraq. At the present time, throughout the Middle East, they are grateful for what Canada is doing and has been doing as part of those CF-18 air strikes.

I actually chaired a meeting in Quebec City a little over six months ago with our coalition partners. I ask the Liberals whether we are still part of that coalition in the sense that we have now withdrawn from that. Are we being ignored? Are we being forgotten about? Nobody wants that. We want to be a part of that.

Again, I am very disappointed that the Liberals are not doing what Canadians want or what Canadians have done, which is to not stand on the sidelines but to be a part of this. I hope that the Liberals will reconsider this and do what is right for the men and women of our armed forces and do what is right in the fight against ISIS.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Madam Speaker, in October 2015, the United States pulled out the USS Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier, which had on it 65 aircraft. It was the first time since 2007 that there was no American carrier presence in the Gulf. Part of the reason for the removal of the carrier was budget cuts. The American military at the time said that there was no need to worry about losing the 65 aircraft, because they only did about 20% of the work, and the rest of it would be easily picked up by the larger air force flying off the ground in the theatre. Our contribution, apparently, seemed to be about 2%.

I would ask my colleague across the way whether he honestly believes that without the six CF-18s, our allies would not provide the cover for the troops on the ground, in view of all the aircraft that are available.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Madam Speaker, this is exactly what I have been saying. The point I have made in this House for the second time since we have touched on these debates is that is not the Canadian way to stand on the sidelines and tell everyone else they should be doing that.

Throughout Canadian history, we did not say we would not be sending Canadian soldiers, that the British and everyone else could do the work over there, that they could stand up for freedom and for those who are oppressed. That has never been the Canadian way.

I indicated what happened in Kuwait. Yes, there were other parts of the coalition, but Canada always does its share. We always do more than our share. That is what I have said on a number of occasions to our allies. We do more than our share, and that is what we should do. To say that it will be picked up by someone else, I completely reject.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Madam Speaker, I listened with interest to the member from Niagara Falls and the other Conservatives. It is certainly quite clear that on this motion, they object to withdrawing the Canadian fighters, although one could argue that we are still very much involved in bombing, because we are using the Aurora surveillance aircraft, we are refuelling, and we are painting targets on the ground. They seem to have hooked their whole argument around the withdrawal of the CF-18s.

My question is on another part of the military mission. Do the Conservatives support what is proposed here, which is the expansion of the so-called training mission, which is in fact an advise-and-assist mission, that will put Canadian Forces members on the front lines and in danger of direct combat confrontations with ISIS? Do the Conservatives support that part of the Liberal motion?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is one complete package.

I support the mission we undertook, that we had approved by Parliament, which was an advise-and-assist role with respect to the soldiers on the ground. At the same time, and the hon. member made mention of it, the air refuelling and surveillance aircraft were an important component.

However, the key part of our contribution to the coalition against ISIS was the members of the Royal Canadian Air Force and the CF-18s. I can say that I did not run into any of our allies, whether they be at NATO conferences or the conference we held here in Quebec City with the coalition members, who said to me that we did not have to worry about sending our CF-18s. It was the exact opposite.

When I spoke to anyone, from the Prime Minister of Iraq to the foreign affairs minister and the defence minister, they were all very clear in saying that what we were doing in the air was helping them hold onto the territory they had and moving forward against ISIS. They told me that it was absolutely vital. They could not have been more appreciative of Canada's efforts.

Again, this is consistent with what we always do as a country. This is Canada's role, not standing on the sidelines and not, as was suggested to me here, hoping that other people will pick up the slack and get the job done. That is not what Canada is all about.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Madam Speaker, one thing we are simply not hearing from the government benches is the important and key role that the Royal Canadian Air Force has played in the global fight against ISIS.

I must underscore how our men and women in uniform have had a tremendously successful air combat role in Iraq and Syria. This includes eliminating many ISIS fighting positions, equipment, and vehicles, as well as factories used for the construction of improvised explosive devices and storage facilities. I am happy to stand here today and say what the Liberals will not, that I am proud of our men and women in uniform in the air force for the tremendous work they have done with our allies against ISIS. However, since the government unceremoniously removed them, we have not heard so much as a thanks for the air force's successful mission. I will add that this removal happened before debate on this motion had barely even begun.

As of February 3, Canada's CF-18s had successfully taken out 249 ISIS fighting positions, 83 pieces of ISIS equipment and vehicles, and 24 of its improvised explosive device factories and storage facilities. Unfortunately, instead of recognizing the work of our men and women in uniform, the government is inaccurately characterizing Canada's contributions to the air task force. In fact, the Prime Minister recently stated that 600 members of the Royal Canadian Air Force are supporting only six CF-18 jets. This is simply not accurate.

The Royal Canadian Air Force personnel and aircraft are supporting the entire air task force coalition, including providing fuel from our Polaris refuellers to our allies' planes, sharing with the coalition the intelligence that has been collected by our reconnaissance aircraft, and assisting in targeting ISIS positions for our allies. Now, without any kind of a clear explanation whatsoever, the Liberal government is putting an end to our contribution to the coalition bombing.

The decision to abandon our air mission comes at a time when most Canadians want to continue our combat mission against ISIS. In fact, the majority of Canadians believe that pulling out our fighter jets will damage Canada's global reputation. An Angus Reid poll found that nearly half of Canadians, 47% in fact, think that this will have a negative effect on our international reputation. Further to that, only 27% told the Angus Reid Institute that they were on the same page as the Liberals, with their plan to stop Canada's airborne mission and focus only on training local troops in Iraq and Syria—only 27%. That same poll showed that a majority of Canadians, 64% in fact, believe that the global threat of ISIS is growing. Therefore, why are the Liberals ignoring the good work of our air force and thumbing their noses at the will of the Canadian people and, indeed, at our allies?

The brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces have a history of always being proud to do the heavy lifting on the world stage to protect the freedoms that we hold dear. This now includes degrading and defeating ISIS, a terrorist group that is committing mass atrocities, inspiring terror attacks around the world, and has declared war on Canada and its allies.

I have heard from my constituents how disappointed they are that the Liberals have decided to have Canada take a step back and withdraw from the airborne combat mission against ISIS. My constituents ask me why we are abandoning our allies when they need us the most.

Let me be clear that withdrawing from the combat mission against ISIS is a step backward for Canada. Our country has a long history of fighting for human rights and international security. In fact, a short time ago I was reminded of this very poignantly when I had the opportunity to deliver the eulogy for Ray Hoffman, a true Canadian hero who fought for the Calgary Highlanders in the Second World War. Ray served as an infantry machine gunner in Oldenburg on VE day in 1945 and then returned home to build his life in the town of Cochrane, Alberta, in my constituency. He is but one of many who have helped to shape our country's record of defending innocent and vulnerable populations by taking on those who commit mass atrocities.

We should stand shoulder to shoulder with our allies to stop ISIS, its enslavement of women and children, its barbaric treatment of gays and lesbians, and its mass atrocities against religious minorities. It is more critical than ever that we stand against this with our allies to keep people safe.

Let me be very clear: the acts of ISIS are barbaric. Families, villages, and cities are being systematically exterminated. This is barbarism. People are being burned alive. This is barbarism. People are being beheaded and their heads put on display. That includes children who are facing this horrific fate. This is barbarism. Gay men and women are being thrown off buildings to their death. This is barbarism. Women and children are being sold and sexually enslaved. This is barbarism. Those of the Yazidi faith have been marched to their death and shot in mass executions. This is also barbarism.

What is the Prime Minister's response to this barbarism? He recently said, “The lethal enemy of barbarism isn't hatred. It's reason”. First, I am surprised that the Prime Minister managed to use the term “barbarism”, considering that just a few short years ago he refused to call honour killings “barbaric” and instead stated that the previous Conservative government should make attempts at responsible neutrality.

On this side of the House, we are not afraid to call these heinous acts what they are. They are barbarism and we will stand resolutely against them. But let me also say this to the Prime Minister: no, the lethal enemy of barbarism is not hatred. The lethal enemy of barbarism is the resolute defence of democracy and freedom. It is standing up for the innocent. It is standing shoulder to shoulder with our allies. It is standing up for the minority Yazidis, Christians, and other religious and ethnic minorities. It is standing up for human rights.

ISIS is a terrorist group and its members inspire fear and have declared war on Canada and our allies. This is a just fight and we cannot step back now and expect our allies to do the work of defending freedom and human rights for us.

Make no mistake, Canada has been a key ally in the air combat effort. Our jets are a top five contributor in the anti-ISIS air strikes. On this side of the House, we strongly believe that Canada has the capacity to continue to contribute to air strikes, alongside training and humanitarian support. Canadian Armed Forces personnel have been doing so effectively for nearly a year.

I ask members on the government benches this. How can they claim to continue to stand with our allies and be a major partner in the fight against ISIS, standing with them shoulder to shoulder, when they have eliminated the very contribution that most directly protects the innocent civilians who are suffering mass atrocities on the ground?

If the Prime Minister truly believes that the enemy of barbarism is reason, then maybe he will use reason to recognize that our men and women in the Canadian Air Force have successfully been fighting this barbarism and will rescind his motion to withdraw from the airborne combat mission against ISIS.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comments by the member, but just so that we are perfectly clear on this, in the last election when the issue of Canada's role was raised, I was fairly clear on what the party's position was, on what the leader of the party was saying. It should come as no surprise that there was a commitment to refocus the campaign in the Middle East. We indicated very clearly to Canadians, and the global coalition would have been aware of this, that Canada would be withdrawing its CF-18s in favour of doing other things.

There are significant other things that are being done, such as tripling the size of our training force, increasing the amount of humanitarian and development aid, increasing the diplomatic role, and expanding our capacity-building efforts. There is a lot there.

Would the member not at the very least respect what took place in the election and respect the fact that the coalition itself does have many other means? There is no one from the coalition saying, bring back the CF-18s.

I am wondering if the member would respect the reality of what the voters wanted to see happen.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Madam Speaker, I wonder if the hon. member would respect the will of the Canadian people and the need for our men and women in uniform to be there as part of the fight, standing shoulder to shoulder with our allies. Would he respect the duty and job they have undertaken? I wish he would. I wish his government would. I wish they would show some respect for the fact that 64% of Canadians say they believe that the global threat from ISIS is growing.

There is absolutely no reason why our country cannot be there in a training role, providing humanitarian assistance and still be a part of the air strikes with our coalition partners. Why does the government believe that Canada is not capable, that our men and women are not capable of doing all of those things? We can and we should and we must.

It is a shame that the government does not understand and respect the will of the Canadian people and respect the men and women in uniform who are doing that job and doing it well.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I always enjoy hearing the member speak, but there is one question I am left with. Despite the commitments by the Liberal government during the election campaign to scale back the combat mission, what we are seeing is actually an expanded combat mission. There is no doubt about that. We have asked the Conservative members a number of times whether they support that expanded combat mission. We do not on this side. We will be opposing the motion because we believe that Canada should be putting its efforts toward cutting off the funds and the arms flowing to ISIS, as well as cutting off the foreign fighters. That includes deradicalization programs, which we have yet to see from the government despite the fact that many people in communities across the country have been calling for these.

There is an expanded combat mission and it is unclear to me where the Conservatives are going with this. Does the member support what is an expanded combat mission, which actually flies in the face of what Liberals committed to during the election campaign?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Madam Speaker, my party and I support Canada standing shoulder to shoulder with our allies and being a part of the coalition in the fight against ISIS. That can entail a number of things, but one thing that very clearly has been effective and a key part of the role has been the bombing campaign. We have been a significant part of that, in fact one of the top countries in the world in our contribution to that effort.

For us to be pulling back at a time when Canadians see ISIS as a growing threat and when our allies need us the most, it is is a shame. It is something I think the government should be condemned for.

We need to be there as part of the mission, part of the bombing campaign, to ensure that we are doing everything we can as a country to stand with our allies to stop this terrorist threat that is ISIS.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my colleague from the beautiful riding of Sherbrooke.

I welcome the opportunity to debate in the House about how best to engage and defeat ISIS. I thank the House and the government for this opportunity.

New Democrats are glad to see three things in this plan: first, the renewed emphasis on diplomacy; second, the renewed commitment to aid conflict affected populations in the region; and third, the ongoing commitment for refugee welcoming and settlement in our country. We can all be proud of these things.

The NDP has always stood up for peace and I am proud to be part of that heritage. I am thinking today of my grandfather, John Osler, who was a pacifist. He stayed out of the conflict for as long as he could. During the second world war he was finally compelled to serve in the navy and was proud to be part of that national commitment. He then ran for the CCF and worked in the labour movement. I am honoured to be his granddaughter and carrying on that discussion in the debate today.

The NDP has always been clear. Canada should focus on stopping the flow of arms, funds, and fighters, and we should do that work right here at home before anywhere else. We would have liked to have seen the government step up efforts in these areas.

I will speak to the first plan, stemming the flow of weapons to the region. Although the UN Security Council has passed three resolutions dealing with Iraq, none of them authorized a military mission. The UN Security Council did specifically require action on the part of all member countries to prevent the flow of foreign fighters and suppress the financing of terrorist organizations. As my colleague from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke said, there has only ever been one terrorism financing conviction in Canada and that was in 2010, so we have work to do right here at home.

ISIL is earning between $1 million and $3 million every day in income from black market oil sales. We are never going to stop ISIL if we do not cut off that flow of money. We must seal the borders in the region against oil exports.

The Arms Trade Treaty would regulate the flow of weapons across international borders. If implemented on a global scale, it has the potential to starve the world's most brutal regimes of the money that they need to carry on their atrocious actions.

Although the Arms Trade Treaty came into effect more than a year ago, Canada, to its shame, stands alone among all NATO member countries that have failed to sign this treaty. The NDP has been pushing this issue for a long time both inside and outside the House, and we were glad to see the government campaign on and make a commitment to sign that Arms Trade Treaty.

However, for the last couple of weeks we have been asking in the House, when will the government sign the Arms Trade Treaty? The word yesterday or the day before was that the minister is seized with the issue but none of us know what that means. What does it mean to be seized? Maybe seized up and indecisive. I do not know, but we need to do this. It is embarrassing that Canada has not honoured that commitment and it would make a big difference. This is a decision we can make here at home that would affect the war against ISIS.

Again, there are other benefits to signing the Arms Trade Treaty as well. It would help us untangle the government's response to the Saudi arms trade deal.

It was reported this week that weapons being used by terrorists in Yemen originated in Canada, in Manitoba, of all places. We have work to do at home. Signing the Arms Trade Treaty would make us proud internationally and we could make a difference in the affected region.

We would love to have seen this mission, as articulated by the government, include a commitment to stem the flow of fighters by supporting de-radicalization efforts here at home.

We know that communities across this country have reached out to the federal government, both the previous Conservative government and now the Liberal government, imploring for help to protect youth from ISIS's very sophisticated recruitment techniques, yet the February 8 announcement did not include any domestic action against ISIS.

I asked this question all day Monday. Does the Liberal Party have a plan to address de-radicalization to help prevent Canadians from going overseas to fight with ISIS? I could not get any Liberal MP to tell me where that sits in their plan. I would still love to hear that it does. I would love to be surprised on this. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon said that over the longer-term, the biggest threat to terrorists is not the power of missiles, it is the politics of inclusion. I would be proud if Canada honoured that work.

There are sections of both the Liberal and Conservative motions that we can support wholeheartedly, which is that yes, we express our appreciation for and our pride in members of the Canadian Forces who serve now and who have served in the past. We must absolutely do everything we can as a country to look after our veterans and to look after our men and women in service as well as we possibly can.

The Liberals got us into Afghanistan in 2004 with no endgame plan. Just like in Afghanistan, this mission feels like an open-ended military mission with no end in sight.

The Liberals are placing Canadian Forces deeper into a conflict zone, a mission with no end date and no definition of what success looks like.

While the Prime Minister's announcement left many unanswered questions, Chief of the Defence Staff General Vance was clear. He said that there will be more risk to Canadian soldiers under this mission. He added:

You put more people on the ground in a dangerous place, and it is riskier overall.

Canadian troops will be in a conflict zone in a high threat environment and if they do come under attack, they will have to fight back. Here at home, the high number of veterans receiving disability benefits for PTSD is a reminder of the need for support services for our military.

On Sunday this past week four provinces honoured soldiers and veterans from Afghanistan, veterans who came home and committed suicide. We all have these stories in our communities. I have one at home, a family that I love very much in Ladysmith. A Globe and Mail study reports there are at least 62 soldiers who have taken their own lives following the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. That is a national tragedy.

The government promised, and I am delighted that it has, to re-open the nine veterans service offices closed by the Conservatives. It should also commit to increase mental health services.

No matter what happens with the debate in this House or what happens with the mission, the government must honour its commitments to veterans and those in service. These people are working to keep us safe and we must keep them safe as well.

Canadians voted for change and the new government will need to deliver that change. I believe Canada would have more credibility if it was looking after affairs in its own backyard, signing the Arms Trade Treaty, supporting de-radicalization efforts at home, and looking after our veterans as well as we possibly can.

I look forward to Canada cleaning up its act at home and restoring our reputation as a nation of peace and ethics.

[John McKay, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Madam Speaker, the NDP's position strikes me as passingly strange. The New Democrats agree with the humanitarian mission that the government is proposing. They agree with the enhanced diplomatic mission that the government is proposing. They certainly agree with the welcoming of now close to 23,000 or 24,000 refugees into our country, which has been an amazing story and certainly a nation-building exercise.

However, the New Democrats want, somehow or another, some interception of the funds and the firearms that are going to ISIS to be done without involving the military. They want a military mission without the military. Whether it is combat or it is not combat, they simply want those interceptions to take place with respect to the oil, which are the funds; and the firearms, which are obviously what they are.

I am perplexed as to how the government could conduct interceptions of funding or firearms with no military presence?

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Speaker, all of the suggestions that I have made and that my fellow New Democrats have made go toward the aim of decreasing the intensity of the fighting in the region, hopefully shortening the fighting in the region, and reducing the exposure of our men and women in service to danger when they are there. This is one of those examples of a stitch in time saves nine. We will never have enough weapons or enough fighters to force peace. However, if we choke-off the flow of weapons and finances, that has more to do with our banking system than it does with soldiers on the front line.

The United Nations Security Council has not invited our soldiers into the region, but has instead asked Canada, with its other NATO countries, to sign the Arms Trade Treaty. That fact is a very strong message about what the international community believes we should be doing to stop the intensity of fighting in the first place.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, I thought the member spoke very well. She certainly spoke about some things that we all agree are important: humanitarian assistance and addressing terrorist financing, although, of course, we might disagree on some of the details. However, what we are talking about here is the question of the military mission.

I see things perhaps differently from the member. She talked about her grandfather who was a pacifist during the war. I mentioned that I had family members who were victims of Nazi oppression, so I am very glad that we got involved and we fought that.

Does the member believe that genocide is happening? Does she believe in the principle of responsibility to protect, that it is legitimate to fight and use our military in cases where there is, in fact, a genocide going on?