Debates of March 21st, 2016

Opposition Motion—Office of Religious Freedom

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind members that if they want to ask a question to please stand up in the House, as opposed to yelling at people while they are making their speeches. I think we owe those who are responding or making speeches that respect.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Sherbrooke.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech.

In light of what has happened, what does she think about Canada's ideological interference in protecting certain rights around the world? Does she think that there should be as little ideological interference as possible when it comes to protecting human rights? All rights are important, and Canada must protect and defend them around the world.

[Pam Goldsmith-Jones, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am not going to comment on the politicization of the rights of religious freedom. However, I would like to say that whenever we separate one right from another, whenever we take away from the totality of the humanitarian aspect of all of these interconnected rights, then we risk perhaps being viewed as politicizing something that is far too important to politicize.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Speaker, Canada's Office of Religious Freedom was just one way of protecting human rights and freedoms around the world.

In my opinion, freedom of religion also includes the freedom to be religious or not. We all have a right to freedom of thought and belief, and we also have the right not to have beliefs. This freedom is a personal choice, as it should be everywhere in the world. I do not think anyone should tell another person what they can or cannot believe when it comes to their own religious thoughts.

Canada sets a good example for other countries on freedoms, and I do not want to disparage Canada's Office of Religious Freedom. However, I would like my colleague to tell us in what other ways we, as a country, can promote human rights and freedoms.

[Pam Goldsmith-Jones, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Madam Speaker, certainly the subject of human rights runs throughout the mandate letters. It is the responsibility of many of the ministries. It is something which our minister is very passionate about, and very eloquent in speaking about. We look forward to infusing this government's leadership in the world with human rights and with our common humanity.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs)]

Madam Speaker, it is a great pleasure to rise today to speak to this important motion.

I want to start off by sharing my story with the House.

I grew up in the Middle East as a member of the majority. Most of the people who I was raised with, neighbours, friends, my parent's friends, were all from the same sect. We all had the same faith and cultural background. I grew up in an environment where things were black and white, where things were simple, where we knew right from wrong. There were a lot of minorities but they kept to themselves.

The things I usually heard about minorities as I was growing up were unfortunately mostly negative stereotyping. It was the belittling of their traditions. It was the questioning of their loyalty. It was the questioning of their lifestyle and their vision. This was done by well-meaning individuals who did not really mean any malice. They lacked an understanding of what other groups and individuals aspired to be. Their stereotyping and accusations were never questioned. As a kid, I never questioned them myself. It was quite common. As a result of these questions, it was no surprise that many minority members kept to themselves. They kept their backgrounds to themselves. They would try to blend in with the majority and avoid any types of questions or stereotyping.

I immigrated to Canada at a young age and quickly became a member of the minority. Well-meaning individuals would ask me questions about my background, my faith, and wanted to understand some things they read about in the media. These types of questions or generalizations never gave me reason to ponder the ramifications of stereotyping up until I became a recipient of them.

This was an important journey for me. It helped me understand the importance of respecting each human being regardless of faith, background, sexual orientation, or gender. To this day, I carry with me the deep understanding that regardless of our faith, we all share humanity and the common desire to do well for ourselves and our family. Regardless of how different we are, we must always extend to each other respect and understanding even more than tolerance. Tolerance means we tolerate each other even though we might disagree. We have to advocate for respect and understanding. For me, that journey was the cornerstone of my deep commitment to human rights regardless of background and upbringing. I am extremely proud to be a member of a government that is deeply committed to that understanding and that belief.

Our government has taken action with respect to promoting human rights. Let me share with the House some of the steps that our government has taken.

Our right hon. Prime Minister has announced that Canada will be seeking a seat on the United Nations Security Council. Our government has announced that Canada will be seeking election to the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women, underscoring Canada's commitment to advancing gender equality globally, and the protection and promotion of the rights of women and girls.

The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs recently addressed the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, the first such address for a Canadian foreign minister in several years. At the Human Rights Council, the minister also clearly restated Canada's opposition to the death penalty and announced that Canada would, once again, be leading the annual resolution on the elimination of violence against women in June.

Furthermore, the Minister of Foreign Affairs recently met with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and announced a $15 million contribution over three years to support the work of his office. Before Christmas, the Prime Minister personally welcomed some of the 25,000 new Syrian refugees upon their arrival in Canada.

Let us not stop there. Canada, with clear direction from both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, worked to have human rights incorporated into the Paris agreement. At the last commonwealth summit, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs were unequivocal in expressing our support for the human rights of LGBTI persons.

The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has also engaged directly with some of Canada's leading civil society organizations and national indigenous organizations to seek their views on international human rights.

The government is committed to doing more in the promotion and protection of human rights. We will be seeking opportunities to engage with a broad range of partners, traditional allies, and emerging bridge builders to strengthen the international human rights architecture. The UN will be the principal forum in which we will advance our international objectives, including our human rights objectives. We will also engage in other forums, both established and emerging forums, wherever we can be most effective.

Canada has been instrumental in shaping the international system of human rights that sets global standards, monitors situations, provides early warning, addresses crises, reviews whether international obligations are being met, documents violations and abuses, and helps to prevent impugnity. This work has been within both the United Nations and regional organizations engaged on human rights. Extending the strength, reach, and capacity of the UN human rights system is critical to Canadian interests.

The UN human rights system needs Canada's voice, but it also needs tangible financial contributions. In recent years, Canada has not contributed to the core funding of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. Our government has corrected this. The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that our government will support the important work of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights through a contribution of $15 million over the next three years, funding that is new, un-earmarked core funding. A stable base of un-earmarked core funding is critical to the office's capacity to fulfill the mandate that we as member states gave it. Put simply, it cannot be an effective and objective promoter and protector of human rights absent predictable resources. Canada is also making an additional contribution to strengthen the on-the-ground presence of the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in Burundi.

Our government is committed to hearing the views of Canadians with regard to human rights. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has engaged directly with some of Canada's leading civil society organizations, as well as national indigenous organizations, to seek their views on international human rights. Officials at Global Affairs Canada are continuing this engagement. Engagement with civil society organizations is essential to the success of our approach to human rights. We need their knowledge and expertise. We welcome their criticisms. Even in cases where we do not agree, we need to hear and consider the views of all Canadians. Our government has empowered offices to continue this engagement.

Our commitment to the promotion of human rights is deep and solid. While we acknowledge and celebrate the work of the Office of Religious Freedom over the last few years, we intend to expand it, to enhance it, and to continue to promote human rights here and abroad.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the member opposite and my fellow engineer for stating his support of our values of freedom of religion.

I heard the Minister of Foreign Affairs say this morning that the government intended to close the Office of Religious Freedom on March 31, at the end of its planned mandate. Could the member please tell me the priorities that the government will be addressing first and what resources will be put in place since that works begins 10 days from now?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would encourage the hon. member to be patient. We expect an announcement to be made shortly, once we finalize our decision about how to move forward. However, I am pretty sure she will be satisfied, and I am pretty sure Canadians will be proud once that decision is made.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Madam Speaker, I hope that the decision my colleague mentioned will not result in a hierarchy of different rights, as was the case with the Office of Religious Freedom. I would like to thank my colleague for his speech and for highlighting his commitment to all human rights. I would like him to tell us whether he believes, as I do, that there should not be a hierarchy, that is, that certain rights, such as religious rights, should not take precedence over other rights, and whether this will be reflected in the decision on the renewal of the office, which will be announced shortly.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I agree with my colleague. Human rights are human rights. They all have the same level of importance, and they are all sacred.

There are times when we have to balance rights, but our intention and belief is that rights are indivisible and comprehensive. Freedom of religion is as important as the freedom of sexual orientation, freedom for LGBTI, freedom of conscience. I do not want to forget any rights, because it is a risky proposition; however, all rights should be treated equally and are sacred.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, I really appreciated hearing the member's own story.

It is curious, because I find myself agreeing with the Liberals' high praise of the office, yet they go on to say that the office should be eliminated after praising its good work. The government is like someone who buys a new house and then rips out one of the walls, saying not to worry, that they will hold up the roof another way. Why do we not maintain the system we have in place, which is working so well? The Liberals are not expanding it. They are not building on it. They are levelling it first and then maybe they will figure something else out after that.

We have 10 days to go until this office runs out. Build on it by all means, but why do the Liberals at least start by renewing the good work that has already happened?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am not sure why the member does not believe that better is always possible. There are always ways to make things better. In fact, he referred to a house. A lot of people buy houses and celebrate their new homes, but they end up doing some renovations to them. That does not take away from the beauty of the houses they just purchased.

Does my hon. colleague want me to criticize the work of the office? I will not do that. We support the work the office has done, but we think better is always possible.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, this is a question I have asked the minister before. It has to do with Canada's role in the world when it comes to human rights. It should be one of very strong leadership. Could the member provide his thoughts on Canada's role in dealing with human rights?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, my colleague is absolutely right. I took quite a bit of time in my speech to enumerate some of the leadership activities our government has taken around the globe, on the international stage, to promote human rights and to advocate for their promotion.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to speak to the motion today. I will be splitting my time with my friend and neighbour, the great member for Portage—Lisgar.

The reason the debate today is so important is that we want to talk about human rights, but we have to focus in on the great work that has been done by the Office of Religious Freedom under the leadership of the Ambassador Andrew Bennett. We need to remember that, when we look at most of the atrocities that have been committed around the world, when we look at most of the human rights violations that too many people have had the misfortune of experiencing, we see it always starts with an attack on religious freedom.

Not one of the countries today that have the worst human rights violations has freedom of religion or recognizes the people's right to choose which religion they want to practise.

It comes down to watching what is going on in the world today.

I was encouraged to see U.S. Secretary of State Kerry say this past week that what ISIS is doing in Iraq and Syria, and indeed around the world, is genocide. Its targets are religious minority groups. It is the Assyrian Orthodox, the Yazidis, and the Chaldean Christians. It is those groups ISIS is focusing on. It is Shia Muslims and progressive Muslims it is targeting. Anyone who will not accept ISIS' demented idea of religion and ideology, those are the ones whom it is not just persecuting but exterminating.

We have to take a strong stand to stop these types of atrocities, to stop this genocide in particular in Iraq and Syria. That is why our party has always supported being part of the combat mission to actually stop the genocide, to exercise our responsibility under the UN charter, which is the responsibility to protect, which was agreed to under the Geneva Convention. We have a responsibility, and that is why the Office of Religious Freedom that we established a few years ago in Canada is so important.

I want to talk from the standpoint of my experience of what we are seeing happen in Ukraine today. Despite some of the earlier comments made by the member for Windsor—Tecumseh, I want to make sure people understand that there has been a huge attack on religious freedoms in Russian-occupied Ukraine, whether it is in Crimea, in Dombass, or by their proxies like former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych.

In Crimea, since the occupation began, when the little green men showed up on the streets in 2014, there was an immediate attack on the Muslim minority there, the indigenous Crimean Tatars. Almost systematically the government of Ukraine, under the leadership of Vladimir Putin, as well as his proxies, his so-called Crimean self-defence forces in Crimea, made sure that they first went and shut down their mosques. Then they attacked their media, based upon their religion; so freedom of speech and freedom of the press were automatically shut down after they attacked their ability to worship.

They shut down the Crimean Tatars' newspapers, radio stations, and television stations. Then they attacked their right to assembly and shut down their legislative body, which they have enjoyed under the authority of the Ukrainian government in the autonomous region of Crimea, since Crimea and Ukraine became independent in 1991, their Mejlis, which is their legislative body where they elect leaders, make policy decisions, and advise the government of Ukraine as well as the government within Crimea on the type of things they need for their people, the Crimean Tatars.

Those attacks on their religion were all orchestrated by the Kremlin out of Moscow. Those attacks on their human rights—freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech—were all attacked by the Kremlin. We have to take a strong stance against these types of human rights violators.

That is why Andrew Bennett, the ambassador of the Office of Religious Freedom, travelled on numerous occasions to Ukraine to highlight the abuses that were occurring in Crimea by the Russian Federation. We have to applaud the Office of Religious Freedom for taking that type of leadership role, because on the other side of that, we have Russia Today, the Russian television that is broadcast into Canada, saying that the Mejlis, the Tatars' legislative assembly, is a terrorist organization. It said that the Tatars are not allowed to assemble in their mosques or Mejlis because they are planning unrest within Crimea. This just stinks of the time in 1942 to 1944 when the Soviet Union systematically tried to stomp out the Tatars' culture, their religion, and their ability to be within their homeland, by deporting them to the gulags in Siberia and eastern Russia. They were allowed to return in the late 1980s, as the Soviet Union's Iron Curtain began to crumple. They were allowed to go home to reclaim their properties and to re-establish themselves as a community under the leadership of the free and independent Ukraine. However, all of that has now been turned back. Crimean leaders have been arrested, many of them have disappeared, and that is very disturbing.

Amnesty International has made a number of different statements, along with Freedom House, on everything that is happening to the Tatar community in Crimea. Amnesty International has said that since the annexation by the Russian Federation, “the fundamental rights to freedom of assembly, association and expression have been repeatedly violated in Crimea”.

It further states:

The Crimean Tatars, recognized as the indigenous people of the peninsula prior to the deportation of their entire population to remote parts of the then Soviet Union in 1944, began the painstaking process of re-establishing themselves in Crimea in the late 1980s. It is the Crimean Tatar community which is bearing the brunt of the above violations.

Some of those leaders have been persecuted, and some are now living in Ukraine because they are fearful of returning to Crimea, like Mustafa Dzhemilev, who has been here and met with us in Canada and with whom I have met in Kiev on a number of occasions, a true leader of the Tatars and a true leader within the political circles of Ukraine, who is banned from Crimea. Refat Chubarov, his successor to the Mejlis, is missing because he appeared at a protest against the Russian occupation and illegal annexation and took strong stands against what Putin was doing in Crimea. He was detained and has not been seen for some time, along with other Crimean leaders. Russia continues to violate religious freedoms in Ukraine.

Also, the Russian Federation has gone after the Greek Orthodox Church in Crimea. It has gone after members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, mainly because it believes that the Kiev patriarchate is not in concert with the Russian Orthodox Church because it often talks about the freedom and nationalism of Ukrainians. Again, the Canadian Office of Religious Freedom, under the leadership of Ambassador Bennett, has spoken out strongly against violations—for example, Greek Orthodox priests were beaten on the street, and 200,000 Greek Catholics within the Crimean area have fled the country because they feared for their safety.

It should also be mentioned that in Donetsk, in eastern Ukraine, where the fighting is taking place, one of the first things the Russian proxies did was go to the synagogues and ask all Jews to register. It smacked of Nazism, it smacked of the fascism that was experienced in Germany leading up to World War II, and it is repeating itself in Ukraine today and being perpetrated by the Russian government.

Therefore, we need to continue to take a strong stand in support of religious freedom; otherwise we will not have human rights respected in those regions.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Madam Speaker, we would prefer that funding for the Office of Religious Freedom be allocated instead to an organization that defends human rights, freedom of speech, and freedom of conscience around the world. The Conservatives rejected this when my colleague was a member.

The Conservatives closed the offices of Rights and Democracy, which caused an uproar. In my riding, many people were very disappointed and angry because the organization defended democracy and human rights around the world.

Could my colleague comment on that?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, I should mention that the budget of the Office of Religious Freedom is very small in the big scheme of the government bureaucracy. It is only $5 million a year, and most of that funding was dedicated specifically to human rights and religious freedoms in countries that were struggling to make sure those avenues were being respected.

As I said in my speech, if we look at the countries that are the worst offenders and worst violators of human rights and deny freedoms to their own people, we see it almost always starts with their violation of religious freedom and the right to worship as individuals see fit.

That is where the Office of Religious Freedom has put its efforts. Human rights go hand in hand with religious freedom, and that is the point that I think everyone on our side of the House has been trying to make today.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, freedom of religion is a human rights issue. We have heard many members from all sides talk about the importance of human rights. I was quite pleased with the reference that the member made to Ukraine. Like him and other members of the House, I have had the opportunity to travel to Ukraine and get first-hand experience with some of the limitations on those freedoms that were being put on the citizens of Ukraine, and we wish them the very best.

The issue on which I think we need to focus more of a concentrated effort is human rights in general. When we talk about freedom of religion, what we are really talking about is freedom of thought, which is a part of human rights. If we make reference to what the member referred to in terms of what was taking place in Ukraine, most people would look at it and say that the issue of human rights and the role Canada can play today should not be limited to one aspect of human rights, but rather the broader picture.

Does the member not believe that there might be a better way of dealing with freedom of religion and freedom of thought, all under that issue of human rights, and maybe investing where we can, so we can demonstrate that leadership, whether in Ukraine or any other region of the world?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, I thank my friend from Winnipeg North for his comment. As he mentioned, he and I have been to Ukraine a number of times. I have been there over a dozen times in the last two and a half years. The issue of religious freedom is paramount to how human rights are implemented within a country. He and I both witnessed that in Ukraine.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not say freedom of thought. It does say freedom of religion, so it is freedom of religion that we have to focus on here.

If they are going to protect freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and freedom of assembly, they have to protect freedom of religion first and foremost. That is because those who violate our human rights around the world first attack the ability to express religious freedoms through worship, through assembly, and through freedom of speech.

That is what we have witnessed in Ukraine with the Russian occupation of Donbass and Crimea. We have to continue to speak out against Putin's aggression and Putin's illegal occupation and illegal annexation of that region, and to stop the human rights violations, which start with his cracking down on those people who do not share his Russian Orthodox views.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Madam Speaker, I am very happy and honoured to rise today on behalf of my constituents of Portage—Lisgar to speak in favour of the opposition motion. The motion does a couple of things, but two things would be accomplished primarily if the motion were passed.

First, it would recognize the good work being done by Canada's Office of Religious Freedom. I think that is something we could probably all agree on in the House. There seems to be a consensus that Dr. Bennett and the folks he has worked with at the Office of Religious Freedom have done good work.

It is the second part of the motion that seems to be contentious. That is where we are calling on the government to renew the current mandate of the office. The reason is that its continued vital work is needed now more than ever.

I want to speak to both of those topics and a bit about my experience since being a member of Parliament and prior to that, in terms of what I learned about how blessed we are to live in Canada. We have religious freedom and many times we take those religious freedoms for granted. As a member of Parliament, I learned from colleagues in other countries about the lack of religious freedom. It is not just emotional or social persecution but physical persecution to the point of death that individuals in other countries have had to suffer.

It is important to note that the issue of religious freedom around the world is a growing concern. Religious freedom around the world is not expanding. If anything, it is contracting. That means that people who are living in Muslim countries are not freer to practise their Christian faith. That means that people who are living in Communist countries are not freer to practise their Sikh, or Muslim, or Jewish faith. According to Global Affairs Canada, nearly 77% of the world's population lives in countries with high government restrictions on freedom of religion and/or where social hostilities committed by individuals and groups involving religion are allowed by the government. Seventy-seven per cent of all the world's population is living with restrictions on religious freedoms.

In terms of the Christian population in the world, according the The Voice of the Martyrs, 85% of the world's population is subject to persecution if they are Christian or if they are Sikh converts to Christianity. Not only are they not allowed to practise their religion, if they are of another religion and want to convert to Christianity or to a different religion, they are also restricted from doing that.

This is a growing problem, not just for Christians. It is an issue for all the major religions of the world, including for Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and, as has already been mentioned, those who profess no faith. There are people in our world who have no faith. They are atheists. However, in the particular country they live in, they are not allowed to publicly profess that or they will face death, prosecution, or penalties for having that particular non-belief. It is a problem, and it should be recognized and called out as an issue.

The Office of Religious Freedom was created by our Conservative government. It was actually an election promise. When we were elected in 2011, we can say with confidence we were given the mandate to create the Office of Religious Freedom. None of the other parties opposed that office when we created it. All parties agreed it was needed. It was given a modest budget. However, even with that modest budget, it was able to accomplish a lot of good work.

It was created to, among things, defend religious communities abroad and to advocate, analyze, and develop policy and programs to protect religious communities under threat. It has been doing that work. Even with the small budget of $5 million, it has been able to do work in Bangladesh to educate school-age children. So many times that is where religious intolerance starts. At a very young age, wrong teachings are given to children.

It has increased awareness around the world about the Holocaust. We are seeing anti-Semitism grow, so to see awareness of the Holocaust and capacity-building seminars on the Holocaust, and remembrance of it being taught, is so important.

The office has engaged in Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria. This includes engagement with youth, religious leaders, relevant authorities, and community members in those countries to increase inter-religious dialogue for the promotion of religious freedoms and tolerance.

I could go on and talk about all the good things that the Office of Religious Freedom has done, but, as I said, I think we are in agreement on that.

It seems that the case the opposition has to try to make to the government is that we need to single out the issue of religious rights when it comes to making a strong defence of such rights.

I would readily admit that as Conservatives, we do tend to call out issues pretty specifically and then try to address them. When we were in government, we did that on our maternal and newborn health initiative. We recognized that around the world, women in other countries had no value. There were women who were given no resources, women who were dying when giving birth to children. Children have no value in some countries around the world. We directed our international aid dollars specifically to help women, who were suffering when they were in childbirth and young children. We were very specific. We called it out. We did not just say that we should protect all humanity and throw money at helping all humanity. We were very specific and said that as Canadians and as a Canadian government, we were going to help women.

We also did it when we strongly called out our support of Israel and spoke of that support. We, as Conservatives, and sometimes we are criticized for it but I know I will not change my mind on it, tend to call out offences as we see them. Creating the Office of Religious Freedom was one of these areas where we did not want to lump the issue together with women's rights or LGBT rights or with other infractions of human rights.

For some reason, religious rights always goes to the bottom of the list when talking about human rights. As Conservatives, we wanted it and we created the Office of Religious Freedom.

I remember my daughter, who is now 21 years old, coming home when she was in grade 3. She was fairly popular. She was a very pleasant little girl. She did well in school and had lots of friends. She was quite enjoying her grade 3 class and all of her friends. However, my daughter came home in tears a number of days. She said there was a little boy who was being bullied, that kids were mean to him, but she was scared to say anything because she felt if that if she did, they would then be mean to her and they would not like her and she would not be as popular.

That is a pretty common concern of children. When they see someone else being bullied, they, as children, do not want be targeted as well. They want to continue to be asked to all the great parties, to be part of the cool group, to be in all the pictures.

Sometimes, when someone stands up to a bully, they are not popular. Sometimes they have to make a stand, and in making that stand they lose a little bit of popularity. Dare I say, maybe this is what has happened. Some say that Canada is back under the Liberals. I would say that Canada will maybe be more popular now when it comes to being invited to the parties, maybe being invited to a seat at the UN, because maybe now Canada maybe will not be offending some of the biggest religious rights violators that are sitting at the table at the UN. However, I would dare say that Canada should be standing up for the rights of those who are bullied, the rights of individuals like Shahbaz Bhatti who gave his very life. He was assassinated for standing up to the bully.

I would ask that the government reconsider its decision with pride, stand up for women, stand up for minorities, and stand up for religious freedoms by continuing the good work of the Office of Religious Freedom.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Madam Speaker, clearly, religious freedoms are an important subset of human rights.

No one on this side of the government would argue with that. In fact, we are very much in favour of promoting and supporting human rights. The issue, as was brought up by the member, is that it is a very narrow definition.

Another point that was brought up was the question of atheists. These people have decided they are not religious and do not ascribe to any religion. Unfortunately, the Office of Religious Freedom would not protect them, because they are not ascribing a religion to them. It would be a concern of mine to say that if someone has decided not to be part of a religion, they should not have their human rights protected.

Is the member not concerned by that and should we not be protecting atheists as well? If we are to protect atheists who are religious, would we not want to look to expand the question of religious freedoms?

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Madam Speaker, I am very happy to answer that question by my colleague.

The Office of Religious Freedoms absolutely promotes the protection of all religions, including those who hold no religion, around the world. We would agree 100% that Canada and any of the Canadian funds that would go toward the Office of Religious Freedoms would also protect those individuals around the world who are atheists and have no religion.

I would absolutely agree with my colleague on that, which is what this office has done and would continue to do. We we are absolutely on the same side on that.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Madam Speaker, we have been hearing members on the government side say they want to protect freedom of religion, that they want to be on top of things, and all of that kind of stuff, but it seems like there is a double standard. They want to protect and continue working on religious freedoms, and in the meantime, they shut down the Office of Religious Freedom. This is a double standard, and it seems like this is the Liberal way of doing things.

I am not sure if my colleague would agree with me on that.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Madam Speaker, the problem that we are having on this side is trying to understand exactly what the government's position is on this.

For the Liberals to say they are just protecting all human rights, that they do not need to call out religious rights separately, sounds a little hollow. Something does not quite ring true about that.

The Prime Minister has been very clear in promoting women's rights. He very proudly calls himself a feminist. He is talking abroad about the rights of women. The Liberal Party is very proud to stand up for specific minority rights, yet for some reason it is shying away from stating emphatically that we need to promote religious freedom.

Truthfully, I do not have an answer to my colleague's question. We are trying to find out what the Liberals are afraid of. Whom are they afraid of offending? Are they afraid that we are somehow promoting western civilization and, as a result, encouraging criticism?

I do wish the government would articulate exactly why it is afraid of in singling out religious freedoms.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, I ask the member about the issue of the indivisibility of rights, because I think all of us agree that rights are in some sense indivisible, but of course we have things like Status of Women Canada and the Minister of Status of Women singling out a specific area of rights.

Of course, we recognize the interconnections of all rights, but does it not make sense to have centres of excellence focusing on specific areas of rights, recognizing the interconnectedness, but also bringing a specific focus and helping to ensure that that aspect of rights is also part of the wider picture?