House of Commons Hansard #56 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, it is important to focus here. I am not talking just capital costs and procurement. There is a specific $59-million cut to combat and support operations. That is an operational cut. Therefore, could the minister confirm that is indeed a reduction, or a cut?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, with the exact question and the number, I cannot have an answer for the member. However, there are significant differences as the budget does change. I can assure the member that the direction I have given the department is that there will be no cuts. We have kept the planned increases for the military, and we are making sure our men and women have the money to conduct operations.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, I refer the minister to page 170 of the estimates for that specific cut.

However, I refer back to his statement on the defence review. He is looking to conduct the defence review to help inform the development of a modern defence policy, but it is clear he is already making cuts and procurement re-profilings before this defence review. Does this mean there are more cuts or reductions coming after the review?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, we are not making any cuts to procurement. In fact, the procurement schedule that we have was inherited from the previous government, which we are moving along with. What we did was ensure we protected the money for these procurements. However, we are working diligently trying to move projects faster. If we are successful we will be able to re-profile that money back for procurement.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, the minister did indeed inherit some stuff from the previous government, and that was actually what he was showcasing in terms of the good news here tonight. In response to questions from the parliamentary secretary for public works, he outlined improvements to the CP-140, Halifax-class modernization, and even the temporary tanker replacement with the Davie shipyard.

Could the minister confirm to the House that those new projects, that good news, are actually programs he inherited from the previous government?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, aside from the frigate modernization, I do not consider the interim AOR as a good news story. We have a capability gap, where we are renting resupply from other nations right now. That is a capability gap. Nonetheless, we are committed to the national shipbuilding strategy and we are moving forward with that, the interim AOR, and the joint supply ships.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, going back to my concern about the minister's cuts operationally and procurement-wise before his defence review, it concerned me that tonight, in responding to my colleague from Edmonton West about re-profiling money, he said, “We will re-profile the money back if and when it is needed”.

Is the minister confirming to the House that there is a very good chance that, as a result of this review, none of that almost $4 billion will come back into the fiscal framework?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, what I was expressing, in terms of the procurement schedule, is that if we have an opportunity for certain procurement projects to move faster and we are able to purchase sooner, we will re-profile the money back so we can have the capability sooner. That is a good news story. We should be focused on that, rather than waiting until later years from what I inherited in terms of the procurement schedule.

I want to make sure that we have capabilities as quickly as possible, and we are working diligently to make that happen.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, the one difference and, in fact, the reason I am so worried about another era of darkness for the military is that minister Collenette in the Chrétien government at least waited until the white paper was completed before the rounds of cuts. We already have significant cuts and delays to procurement before the defence review itself.

If the defence review process recommends a streamlining or a transformation in the full-time employees, or FTEs, within the Department of National Defence, will the minister cut personnel levels within the Canadian Armed Forces, much like the Liberals did in the mid-1990s?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, as I stated before, I have no intention of cutting the personnel levels. We are conducting that defence review, and in terms of the schedule of procurement, this is a schedule that I inherited. In terms of re-profiling the money, all I have done is taken the schedule that existed within the department and I am making sure that this money is protected for the years that we need to spend it. If I can move those projects in a much quicker fashion, then we will request to re-profile it back so we can have the purchase of the project and bring in the capability even sooner.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, on the fixed-wing SAR process, the minister provided a two-year time frame for completion or at least announcement of that aircraft. I am wondering why that project was specifically chosen to be immune from the delays or the re-profiling of monies, particularly when we have a variety of SAR assets already covering that capability. Why were certain programs taken out of the procurement freeze? What was his rationale for that one not to be frozen?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, the fixed-wing SAR program already had considerable delays in the past. Search and rescue is a critical component of the Canadian Armed Forces that provides that service, and we need to make sure our troops have the right aircraft for it.

As I said, it already had considerable delays, and there was no procurement freeze put on this. Canadians do not care what aircraft the Coast Guard or the military provides. We provide an essential service and we need to make sure our men and women have the capability for this.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Chair, I am going to end much how I began and compare it to the decade of darkness under the Chrétien Liberals, when they cancelled the Sea King as part of the election campaign. The irony is that the minister will now be landing simulators and receiving the Cyclone. A generation later, over 25 years, we are finally receiving replacement aircraft because of the political decision in 1993.

Can the minister confirm to the fighter community and to the Royal Canadian Air Force that we are not going to see the same political games, where we will have a next-generation fighter not online until 20 or 30 years from now?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, as I stated, I have inherited some of the capability gaps. In terms of the CF-18, it is on a separate track from the defence review, and we are making sure we move on this as quickly as possible. My department is working very closely with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement to rectify this, and I hope to be able to move this process along efficiently and quickly, so that we have aircraft that can suit the needs of our men and women in the air force.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Before we resume debate with the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, I will let him know there are only four minutes remaining in the time for this evening's committee of the whole.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, I will try to figure out how to edit along the way. I appreciate the opportunity to participate in these proceedings tonight. I will use my formerly 10 minutes, my current four minutes, to make a couple of minutes of comments and a couple of minutes of questions.

Each line item in the main estimates represents an important activity for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, but as we review these individual expenditures, we should also step back and consider the broader strategic vision for defence.

The Canada first defence strategy is now eight years old. The changes we have seen since then and the inherently fluid nature of the security environment demand that we refresh our strategic vision for the defence of Canada and Canadian interests.

When we look at the security scene today, we face a diverse array of threats and challenges: instability, extremism in the Middle East, tensions between a resurgent Russia and the NATO alliance, rising powers in the Asia-Pacific region, and certainly a heightened interest in Canada's Arctic.

The recent devastating fires in Fort McMurray show that we have more severe, natural and man-made disasters. All of these dynamics, and I have only named a few, demand a review of Canada's defence perspective and priorities. Admittedly, these complex security challenges, both at home and abroad, necessitate an ever more comprehensive approach engaging an ever-wider community of actors. The fact remains that the Canadian Armed Forces are key among them. We need to ensure that our military continues to be ready and equipped for the job at hand. We need to ensure that it is an agile, multi-purpose, combat capable force.

Mr. Chair, I will jump right into questions. The world has changed in many ways since the government last articulated a defence policy that laid out a plan for the Canadian Armed Forces. This is an exciting time, and I think that all members of this House are excited to see the results. Could the minister please inform the committee when the defence policy review process will be complete and where they are in the process at the moment?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his presentation.

The defence review will be completed by the end of this year. We have started our consultations with experts and members of Parliament have done their own. We are seeing a significant amount of interest on our website as well. We want to make sure that our defence review is broad and thorough and that Canadians from across the nation have an opportunity to have a say, and in particular, our international partners as well.

I have already started my engagement with my international partners personally with my counterparts and also with my officials as well.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, if the folks across the way want to see cuts, I will show them my speech later.

As part of the development of a defence policy for Canada, the government has stated that it will be a consultative process.

Could the minister please inform the committee very quickly on how the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces will engage stakeholders from across Canada?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, we have six stakeholder meetings with experts from across Canada. MPs are also holding their own. We have added a few additional ones, especially with the first nations community where we have a nation-to-nation consultation.

We will also be looking at it along gender lines as well. We are broadening the scope as we realized there were a few gaps. This needs to be broad. Canadians need to have a say because at the end of the day, we do need to decide what type of Canadian Armed Force are needed for the future.

I want to assure all the members here and Canadians that the defence review is just that, it is to make sure that we have the right type of force with the right type of capability to be able to respond to all the various threats across the world, from full-on high-intensity conflicts, which will always be the staple of training, to where we need the full-on will of government, and wherever there will also be potentially true traditional peacekeeping operations, but we will be involved internationally in making sure that we help our coalition partners provide stability where it is desperately needed in the world.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

I thank the hon. minister, parliamentary secretary, and members for their participation this evening. I also thank our officials for attending this evening.

It being 11:08 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), all votes are deemed reported. The committee will rise and I will now leave the chair.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 11:09 p.m.)