Debates of Oct. 17th, 2017

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are two issues here. One is, did the finance minister follow the law? The second is whether the finance minister is acting in the public interest.

Let us start with the law. The finance minister appears to have broken the law in failing to report his offshore private corporation in France. With respect to the $30 million in shares he owned and may still own in Morneau Shepell, he may or may not be in compliance with the law. However, it is not enough to follow the law; that is the bare minimum. It is not enough for him to say, “Oh, I found a loophole, I do not have to report what I own because I managed to slide it into a family trust or I stashed away those shares in a private corporation and therefore they are out of public view. That loophole protects me from transparency.”

That is not enough because the second standard I mentioned is the public interest. Consequently, even if the minister has found a way, with all the best lawyers and consultants and lobbyists, to benefit from a loophole from the law—loopholes are something he was attacking not so long ago—he still has to uphold the public interest. That is his duty in this place. Our role is to uphold the public interest, and the only way we can do that in this case is if he is transparent about his private interests.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague, the member for Carleton, eloquently spelled out the issues here today and the high ethical standards all members should strive for.

I have to address the comments by my friend, the Liberal MP for Whitby, who recited with dramatic effect a number of facts. I will recite a fact and I would like the member's comment on it. The fact is that the MP for Whitby, when responding to all small business owners on this issue, said, “Let me start by apologizing to each and every entrepreneur, small business owner, physician, and constituent in the Town of Whitby for the tone and the language that was used during the roll-out of these proposals.” She apologized for the tone because that finance minister has tried to play groups of Canadians off against each another, tried to suggest that all small business owners are somehow part of the wealthiest 1%, the Prime Minister's favourite phrase in this House.

Could the member for Carleton inform this House why he thinks these ethical lapses and questions go to the heart of the confidence we can have in the finance minister when he is playing groups of Canadians off against each another, yet not even abiding by the basic ethical standards required of MPs in the House? That is a lack of confidence, by his own conduct. I would like the member's comments.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is particularly galling that the finance minister would hide his own multi-million dollar investments from Canadians after he has travelled across the country, wagging his fingers at pizza shop owners, plumbers, and family farmers. He has called them tax cheats. He said they have tried to game the system to avoid paying their fair share. He has accused them of using loopholes. Now he is the one who is looking for a way around the rules to prevent Canadians from knowing what interests he holds. He is not prepared to hold himself to the standard he imposes on everyone else. Where I come from, that is called hypocrisy.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind hon. members that the Minister of Finance has been working with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to ensure that he is abiding by all her recommendations and every conflict of interest law and that every appropriate measure is in place.

The commissioner conducted a thorough review before issuing her recommendations, which the minister followed. The Minister of Finance has full confidence in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and in her recommendations. He is prepared to take any measure deemed necessary by the commissioner in order to avoid any conflict or any perceived conflict.

The Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner has the full confidence of Parliament with regard to her ability to do her work with impartiality, integrity and independence. On this side of the House, we respect the commissioner's independence. This is the opposition's attempt to distract from what our government is doing for small businesses and the middle class.

Let us talk about that. I am pleased to rise in the House to go over what our government is doing to improve tax fairness, reduce inequality, and foster inclusive growth. Earlier this month, the government concluded its consultations on its proposals for resolving the issue of tax planning using private corporations. Throughout these consultations, we listened to Canadians from across the country. It is fair to say that the federal government's consultations made it possible for a record number of Canadians to be heard. The Minister of Finance received more than 21,000 submissions and met Canadians from St. John's to Vancouver at roundtables and town halls as well as online forums. I also know that many members of all parties, especially Liberals, did the same thing.

As the new Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, I personally met with many Canadians, including small business owners, farmers, and industry representatives to discuss these proposals. On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I would like to thank the many people who participated in the discussion. I especially want to thank them for their frank and extensive dialogue, which will help the government strike the right balance in carrying out its promise to improve tax fairness in order to help the middle class and to achieve inclusive growth.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced the steps the government plans to take to further support Canada's small businesses. I will talk about this announcement in a moment, but first I would like to remind my hon. colleagues how we got to where we are today.

First and foremost, I would like to assure all members that the government is committed to guaranteeing a healthy, business-friendly economic climate, as well as protecting the ability of Canadian businesses to invest, grow, innovate, and create jobs. In the two years since we came into office, more than 400,000 jobs have been created, most of them full-time. These results are due in part to strong economic growth and the sound investments our government has made in our economy and our society.

Our fiscal position is better than forecast in March. In fact, for the fiscal year that ended on March 31, we had a budget deficit of $17.8 billion, which is $11.6 billion less than was forecast in 2015. Ours is currently the fastest-growing economy by far in the G7.

The results for the second quarter this year showed that the economy grew by an impressive 4.5%. Over the past four quarters, our economy has grown at the fastest rate since the beginning of 2006. The policies we have put in place since we came into office, which include investing in infrastructure, giving more money back to the middle class, and implementing the Canada child benefit, have been praised worldwide for stimulating the economy and giving middle-class Canadians greater flexibility.

This strong economic growth is proof that the plan we put in place two years ago is working. We began laying the foundation for this economic growth the moment we took office. The first thing we did when we started our mandate two years ago, as people may know, was to raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% so we could cut them for nine million Canadians. This middle-class tax cut has been benefiting nine million Canadians, and we are proud of that. Single individuals who benefit from this tax cut are saving an average of $330 each year, and couples an average of $540 each year.

Our government has also made child benefits more generous and better targeted to those who need them the most. With the new Canada child benefit, we have lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. Since July 2016, nine out of 10 Canadian families with children are receiving more in child benefits than they did under the previous system.

We also expanded the Canada pension plan to ensure Canadians would be better off financially in their retirement. The strengthened CPP will provide more money to Canadians when they retire. so they can worry less about their savings and focus more on enjoying time with their families.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I would ask you to bring the member to order over relevance. The nature of today's motion is the appearance of a conflict of interest and calls upon the finance minister to table documents in the House, not to discuss the minister's track record.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

As I have mentioned before in the House, I really do trust the MPs in the room to come around and actually talk about the issue at order. Often I have heard many speeches go off on a tangent that I am not really sure where they will go, but then they bring it back. I will accept that comment, but I will leave it to the MPs to keep it on topic.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member had listened to my introduction, he would know that I mentioned that the Minister of Finance worked with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and that he will continue to do so in order to be fully compliant with all her recommendations at all times, as he has done from the start by working transparently.

As I said in the introduction, the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner did a thorough review of the minister's file before he took office, and the minister followed her recommendations. We believe that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner always acts in a perfectly honest and independent manner, and we respect her independence.

I would like to speak more specifically to the good work that the Minister of Finance does for Canadians.

Strengthening the CPP will increase the maximum benefit by about 50% over time, giving retired Canadians a more dignified retirement.

Now we are moving on to the next step in our plan to grow the economy and achieve better tax fairness for middle-class Canadians and those working hard to achieve the middle class.

We will be the first to point to small business as being one of the reasons the economy is growing the fastest in the G7.

Our government is committed to ensuring that businesses can prosper in Canada. In keeping with that commitment, I am pleased to inform the hon. members in the Chamber that the Prime Minister announced the government's intention to lower the small business tax rate in 2019, while presenting proposals intended to fix a tax system that is inherently unfair for the middle class.

The government intends to lower the small business tax rate to 10% as of January 1, 2018, and then to 9% as of January 1, 2019. These tax cuts are in recognition of the importance of small businesses to the lives of Canadians and of their contribution to the Canadian economy. Small businesses are a key driver of the Canadian economy. They represent 98% of all businesses and are responsible for over 70% of all private sector jobs.

Low corporate tax rates are meant to promote capital investment in business and growth in Canada. These investments, whether they are for the acquisition of more efficient equipment or technology or for the hiring of additional personnel, make companies more productive and competitive.

These investments also stimulate economic growth and help create jobs and raise wages. However, as the government lowers taxes for small businesses, it must ensure that Canada's low corporate tax rates support businesses rather than give unfair and objectionable advantages to a small number of wealthier and higher-income individuals, who use private corporations as a tax planning tool. That was not the intent of the measure.

Our current tax system encourages the wealthy to incorporate so that they obtain a tax advantage. This means that, in some cases, a person who earns hundreds of thousands of dollars a year may benefit from a lower tax rate than a middle-class worker who earns much less. That is not fair, and our government intends to remedy that situation.

This week, the government is introducing the approach it intends to take to better target tax strategies used by a relatively small number of high-income individuals, who benefit the most from existing tax rules. To do so, we are relying on the feedback Canadians provided during our recent consultations on tax planning using private corporations. We have heard from Canadians from coast to coast to coast. We are a government that believes that consulting with Canadians and members of Parliament is a good thing and that it helps us to strike the right balance.

In the coming weeks and months, our government will announce the next steps in its plan to resolve the issue of tax planning using private corporations, a plan that reflects the comments we heard during our consultation period.

With every one of the changes the government makes, it will do the following: support small businesses and their contributions to Canada's communities and our economy; keep taxes low for small businesses and support owners to actively invest in their growth, create jobs, strengthen entrepreneurship, and grow our economy; avoid creating unnecessary red tape for small business owners, who work hard, as we know; recognize the importance of maintaining family farms and work with Canadians to ensure we do not affect the transfer of a family farm to the next generation; conduct a gender-based analysis on finalized proposals to ensure that any changes to our tax system promote gender equity.

As the Prime Minister confirmed at his announcement yesterday, the government is introducing a new proposal designed to limit the ability of a small number of owners of high-income private corporations to reduce the personal tax they have to pay by sprinkling their income to family members. However, the government intends to simplify its proposal on income sprinkling to guarantee that the changes we are proposing do not add any unnecessary red tape. We must emphasize that the vast majority of private corporations will not be impacted by the proposed income-sprinkling measures. In fact, we estimate that only 50,000 family-owned private businesses are sprinkling their income. This is a small fraction, around 3%, of Canadian-controlled private corporations.

We are making changes in order to eliminate the tax advantages that only wealthier individuals with access to the services of accountants can enjoy. We have listened to small business owners, professionals, farmers and fishers, and we are going to act on what we have heard in order to avoid unexpected or undesirable consequences.

This simplified proposal addresses the concerns we heard during the consultations. We heard that our initial proposal was too complicated and caused uncertainty among family members.

We also heard the concerns of family businesses, especially those involved in agriculture or the fishery, about our proposals to limit the lifetime capital gains exemption. In light of the feedback we received from Canadians, we will not for the moment implement any measures that would limit eligibility for this lifetime exemption. We will also continue to carefully examine all the comments that the government has received.

In addition to the middle-class tax cut and the Canada child benefit I mentioned earlier, I would like to highlight some of the government's other key achievements to help support middle-class Canadians.

For example, over the last two years the government prioritized the movement of people and goods by making historic investments in our infrastructure. The government made long-term investments in our infrastructure because it believes it to be crucial to the future of our country and our economy. That is why, in our first budget, we committed $11.9 billion over five years to support public transit, green infrastructure, and social infrastructure.

Also, in the 2016 fall economic statement, we announced a further $81.2 billion that will go towards critical infrastructure over a period of 11 years. These funds will support public transit, green infrastructure, social infrastructure, transportation that supports trade, Canada’s rural and northern communities, and its smart cities. These are investments that improve the way Canadians live, commute and work.

These public transit investments will help Canadians benefit from a faster commute, reduced air pollution, more access to well-paid jobs, and stronger economic growth. These investments reflect Canadians' commitment to one another and to future generations.

We will have even more work to do going forward. Part of the work will involve making changes to create a fairer tax system for the benefit of all Canadians, one where hard-working small business owners are rewarded for their efforts, and big businesses are able to grow, create jobs, and contribute to our country's growth.

Our announcement yesterday means greater support for small and medium-sized businesses. In these times of economic growth, Canadians need to share the fruit of that growth, and they deserve it.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to sincerely congratulate the member for Louis-Hébert who is now the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance. We have the pleasure of being neighbours in the Quebec City area. He is a feisty politician for whom I have a great deal of respect and with whom I really enjoy crossing swords.

Perhaps he has not noticed, but I would point out to him that his two predecessors are currently cabinet ministers. I am quite certain that the member for Louis-Hébert did not notice that, so I wanted to point it out. In all sincerity, I really respect my colleague.

Now let us really get to the heart of the matter. The parliamentary secretary said a number of things that are worthy of closer scrutiny, particularly the facts. He said earlier that his government had introduced budget measures that leave more money in the pockets of families and that make the wealthy, the infamous 1%, pay more in taxes. The facts say otherwise.

First of all, the Fraser Institute published a study two weeks ago that found that 80% of families are now paying $840 more than when we were in government. Also, with respect to the Liberal government's so-called attack on wealthy Canadians, the infamous 1%, the Department of Finance found, on page 16 of a study tabled last week, that there is $1.2 billion less in the government coffers, basically because of those of us who are better off.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance agree with the Department of Finance, which found that the wealthy have ended up paying less tax under the Liberal government?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his kind words. We are neighbours in the Quebec City area, and I enjoy working with him. With regard to his comment that I am a feisty politician, perhaps he is somewhat responsible for that. As for my future, I will leave it to his consideration. Personally, I am focusing on what I have to do now, which is to support the Minister of Finance in his work to create inclusive growth in Canada.

The numbers speak for themselves. When we took office in 2015, growth was slow, and investments were needed in infrastructure. Interest rates were low, and there were pressing needs in our cities and across the country. We thought it was the right time to invest in infrastructure to stimulate this growth, and that is what we have been busy doing since we were elected. The municipalities, particularly in Quebec, applaud the government's approach.

The other part of our plan was to reduce inequality and to provide as much support as possible to those who need it most, by cutting taxes for the middle class and bringing in the Canada child benefit, which gives $454 million annually to families in the Quebec City region, where the hon. member for Louis-Saint-Laurent is from. Nine out of ten families in the Quebec City area are getting an extra $2,300 a year, tax free, which is good for small businesses and good for growth. We know that this has a direct impact on growth.

That is why the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, and economists the world over are applauding Canada's approach. The proof is in the pudding. Growth in Canada is at a record high, the highest in a decade, while unemployment is at its lowest in a decade.

The Minister of Finance's approach is to stimulate growth with strategic investment in infrastructure and to reduce inequality, because we know that inclusive prosperity benefits everyone, the well off and not so well off alike.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but admire such amazing footwork.

I hope the Liberal Party's communications team fully appreciates just how much we believe the hon. member, whom we hold in high regard, is speaking in good faith. We sense in his voice that he wants to do politics differently. However, his voice is being used to justify the indefensible.

The Liberal Party's website states:

After a decade of Stephen Harper, Canadians' faith in government has never been lower. The reason is simple: Canadians do not trust their government...

How can we trust you and your reassuring tone when, just today, as the finance minister's French villa just happens to be under fire, you come out with a new policy for cutting small business taxes? How can we be expected to trust you, honestly?

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Before the parliamentary secretary answers, I would like to remind hon. members that they have to speak in the third person. I am sure that, when the hon. member used the word “you”, he was not referring to the Speaker.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question.

As I said many times yesterday in the House, from the get-go, even before he was appointed to his position, the minister worked with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. The commissioner conducted a extensive review of his file and made recommendations that the minister followed. The minister is committed to following all of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's recommendations to ensure that he is fully complying with all laws and all of the commissioners' directives. I do not know what more I can say.

[Celina Caesar-Chavannes, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his speech, in which he clearly outlined the relevance of the track record of the Minister of Finance: the strongest growth in the G7, the highest employment rate since we took office, the lowest unemployment in a decade, and the introduction of the CCB. In fact, the IMF has projected Canada's growth rate to be half a point higher than it originally projected.

I am wondering if I could ask the hon. colleague a question. What are his constituents saying as they benefit from such a strong economy?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I come from a region where growth has been really intense. We have full employment in Quebec City. The problem that a lot of entrepreneurs face is a shortage of labour, which is a good spot to be in, in a way, but it needs to be addressed. I know we are working hard on that.

It benefits small businesses when the middle class has more air at the end of the month. The policy objectives that we have put forward are to try to reduce inequalities. We have seen rising inequalities here in Canada and around the western world, and I think these trends need to be reined in. That is the ambition of the minister, and the ambition of the government, to make sure every Canadian has an equal opportunity, an equal shot at success in life.

I cannot stress this enough. There is not a moment in this House that made me more proud than when I was sitting over there and saw the Minister of Finance rise to give his budget speech announcing the Canada child benefit. Back when I was growing up, it would have helped me, my mother, and my brother tremendously. It would have made a world of difference when we were growing up. I know it is making a world of difference for a lot of my constituents.

In food banks around my riding, I hear that they have observed a decrease in demand because, as the member knows, the Canada child benefit that we have put forward is the most progressive it has ever been. We stopped sending cheques to families of millionaires, the most privileged and wealthy Canadians, to give more to those who need it the most. That is how it should be.

This speaks a lot about the character of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance, who have at heart that, as the tides rise and our economies grows, everyone benefits from it.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is my first chance to speak on the supply day motion. Most Canadians would find it astonishing that the Minister of Finance's private arrangements were not put in a blind trust.

We assume these things, but when we look at our code of ethics—and this is what I want to ask the parliamentary secretary about—none of the obligations in this code of ethics appear to be enforceable, at all. Members of Parliament are free to ignore their obligations to operate to the highest standards, to not conduct themselves in ways that put them in conflict of interest.

I had a recent experience that confirms for me that the code of ethics and our plain understanding are simply unenforceable. Would the parliamentary secretary agree that we should take steps to ensure that the code of ethics of parliamentarians is actually enforceable and that the words mean something?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for raising that point today. It is something that I would definitely be happy to discuss with her. However, as far as the minister is concerned, he has worked with the Ethics Commissioner from the get-go and will continue to do so, to follow her recommendations and any directives she may have for him to be in full compliance with the code and with our laws. This has been the case from the beginning and will remain the case as we go forward.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Jonquière, which I think is an excellent idea.

It is with some interest, and I suppose with some regret almost, that I read the opposition day motion that came from the Conservatives today. The regret is only in the sense that we have to spend a day of Parliament asking for something that should be open and obvious to everybody, and that we have to go before Parliament, have a vote in Parliament, to ask one of the highest office holders in the land to be open and transparent with Canadians about a perceived and, I would argue, real potential conflict of interest within his portfolio.

I would be surprised if, by the end of the day, the minister does not just walk into Parliament and place the documents in front of all Canadians. Clearly, that would solve a whole series of problems that we have with the current situation, which is highly unusual. I am not sure I have ever seen an opposition day motion like this. I am not sure I have ever seen a finance minister in this particular mess, which is a mess entirely of his own making and circumstance.

I go back to the Prime Minister's own proclamation, his dedication to Canadians, which said:

...transparent government is good government. If we want Canadians to trust their government, we need a government that trusts Canadians.

It seems self-evident to me that, if the government is saying to trust it, then the government must also trust Canadians. What we would ask the Finance Minister to trust Canadians with is that, if he is acting ethically, if he is acting in a way that does not personally benefit and enrich him and his family, then he should be able to tell us.

Now, we have a couple of concerns with the way the Finance Minister has conducted himself, but I want to walk through this.

If we go back almost a full two years to October 28, 2015, to an interview with The Globe and Mail talking about the Finance Minister coming in, the article reads that under the conflict act the Finance Minister “would be expected to either sell off his assets or place them in a blind trust”.

The Finance Minister, prior to public life, in private life, ran a company called Morneau Shepell very successfully. He owned some $43 million in shares, give or take, we think, but we do not know. He has been asked 14 or 15 times now if he is still in possession of those shares, if he still owns assets, and if he is involved in the company. However, each and every time, he has refused to answer.

Yesterday, at a press conference with the Prime Minister, there was this very uncomfortable moment when the press were asking the Finance Minister a direct question that only the Finance Minister could answer. As he moved forward to the microphone to answer, to be accountable to Canadians, as the Prime Minister demanded in his orders to cabinet, the Prime Minister said that he would be answering the questions. The Finance Minister had to take a step back and could be heard to say, “He's the boss”. The question that then relates to this is whether the Finance Minister has the confidence of the Prime Minister.

He has certainly lost a great deal of confidence with Canadians, particularly in the small business sector, and particularly with Canadians who watch and realize that the Finance Minister owns a private villa in France, had sheltered it under a private company to avoid paying taxes if he were then to pass it on to his children, while promoting legislation that would have prevented the same ability for farmers to pass their farm on to their kids. The contradiction of this is incredible. The Finance Minister actually used the tax code in such a way as to shelter his private villa in Provence from taxes, while promoting policies that would not allow a farmer to sell his or her farm to his or her kids.

We would think of that as out of touch, clearly, but then we start to step into the ethics of the question. We raised the concern earlier today. Late last night, I wrote to the Ethics Commissioner asking her to launch a second investigation into the Finance Minister's dealings. This is highly regrettable, because the Finance Minister, as of two years ago in an interview, said:

I suspect all my assets will go into a blind trust.

I've already communicated with the Ethics Commissioner in that regard.

I, like most Canadians, believed him. Why? Well, it was because of course this is what he would have to do. The conflicts of interest, particularly for a finance minister, are obvious. If a finance minister owns assets, millions of dollars of shares in a company that deals with financial matters, the minister simply could not maintain his or her interests and would either have to sell the shares or put them in a blind trust where he or she could no longer affect them, as every finance minister I have ever heard of has done in the past.

What makes this finance minister special? Special would be one word for it. This is unprecedented. I have not seen a finance minister put himself in not only such a perception but actual conflict of interest with his duties.

Let us take one example. It is not just the budget, not just regulating banks, not just trying to guide the economy and the effect that could have on his private holdings, but a specific example is a bill the finance minister promoted in Parliament. He sponsored it. It is Bill C-27, which changes the way pensions work in Canada, leading to the option of targeted benefit plans, which is what they are called. It is a transition from one to another. New Brunswick put this through. Who was the lead consultant when New Brunswick went through changing its pension plan to one of these targeted benefit plans? It was Morneau Shepell. That is interesting. The finance minister, while he was head of Morneau Shepell, promoted targeted benefit plans, these specific types of insurance schemes. Because his company worked on that and made profit from it, he made money from it.

He then became finance minister, did not sell his shares in the company, kept his interests there, then promoted a piece of legislation that would help out that very same company that he is still involved with, from which he still benefits. It is jaw-dropping. If this is not the very definition of conflict of interest, I do not know what is. In future years, when Canadians studying politics look through the handbook of political terms, they will see “conflict of interest” and will see a picture of our finance minister there. I have never seen anything like this. There is no blind trust, no selling off the shares, but placing himself directly in the way of a conflict of interest accusation, so we have written to the finance minister.

Let me quote again. This was in a declaration made from the Prime Minister's Office two years ago:

Our plan for an open and accountable government will allow us to modernize how the Canadian government works, so that it better reflects the values and expectations of Canadians. At its heart is a simple idea: open government is good government. For Canadians to trust our government we must trust Canadians, and we will only be successful in implementing our agenda to the extent that we earn and keep this trust.

Here is the good part. It is from the Prime Minister's Office, from his own lips.

To be worthy of Canadians’ trust, we must always act with integrity. This is not merely a matter of adopting the right rules, or of ensuring technical compliance with those rules. As Ministers, you and your staff must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality, and both the performance of your official duties and the arrangement of your private affairs should bear the closest public scrutiny.

The last bit seems relevant to today, does it not? Has the finance minister sold his shares in Morneau Shepell? We have asked 14 times. He has refused to answer. Does he still have those shares? We do not know. Did he promote a bill that would in fact elevate the value of those shares? Yes, he did.

There is no particular joy taken in watching the credibility of government, the trust and faith that Canadians need to hold in their government, take another hit. Lord knows we have had enough of them, from the Senate scandals to personal scandals. I have not in my 14 years, as brief a time as that has been here in Parliament, seen anything close to this, where the appearance and obvious example of a conflict of interest has existed.

There is only one way to attempt to alleviate the cloud that sits over the finance minister right now, and that is if he comes forward with full disclosure, if he follows the documents he signed, the promises he made to Canadians when he came into cabinet, if he follows his own words, “I suspect all my assets will go into a blind trust” and that he had already communicated with the Ethics Commissioner in that regard, and if he follows the words of the Prime Minister: “If we want Canadians to trust their government, we need a government that trusts Canadians”.

I do not know how the finance minister will get himself out of this mess. It will be incredibly difficult. I do not know how he does his job right now. Distractions at work prevent us sometimes from being good at what we need to do. Canadians need him to be good at what he does. Canadians need him to be focused on the task at hand. Canadians need him to be honest and consistent and have the highest ethical standards and integrity. I am not sure those things are true today.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to read from the Prime Minister's statement on open and accountable government. It says:

Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries must avoid conflict of interest, the appearance of conflict of interest and situations that have the potential to involve conflicts of interest.

Does the member think the minister has stood up to that standard set for him by his Prime Minister?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Here is the basic rule, Mr. Speaker, when people attain public office. They cannot make decisions that enrich themselves. They must recuse themselves. They must avoid not only I would argue, as the Prime Minister set the standard, the legal definition of conflict of interest where they vote on legislation or a budget or something where they know their vote will help benefit them personally. The Prime Minister said that is not enough, that people have to be beyond that, that they cannot even have the appearance of a conflict of interest.

The finance minister has moved legislation in the House that will benefit a company in which he is still involved. He insinuated two years ago that he would remove himself from that conflict of interest. He declared that he would either sell off everything or move it to a blind trust. Our colleague from Trinity—Spadina said publicly that there was no worry because he had moved everything into a blind trust. He deleted that tweet, but the funny thing about Twitter and all those other things is that a picture can be taken of a tweet and it still exists.

The Liberals were under the same allusion that many Canadians were under. I suspect many of my Liberal colleagues watching these things happen said that the minister would of course put it into a blind trust because everybody does, because that is the law, that is the ethical standard. It is in fact the standard the Prime Minister set and declared time after time in the House and to Canadians. I share those expectations with my Liberal colleagues. I thought the minister was not in a conflict of interest but I was wrong, The finance minister and now the Prime Minister have to be accountable for it.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite disappointed in the official opposition, and once again the New Democratic Party is joining forces.

There is no surprise here. The Minister of Finance has done tremendous work and that work has been articulated by a couple of members already. On every occasion, opposition members have opposed everything this government has tried to do, whether it is giving middle-class Canadians tax breaks and putting an extra tax on Canada's wealthiest, or many of the other financial initiatives undertaken by this government.

Every member of the House has an obligation to go through the Ethics Commissioner, as does the Minister of Finance. The Minister of Finance is following the advice of Ethics Commissioner, Mary Dawson.

Would the member agree that members should follow the advice of Mary Dawson? All of us are obligated to go through the commissioner, including the Minister of Finance. Why does the member not believe that all members of Parliament have an obligation, first and foremost, to follow the advice and recommendations provided by the commissioner?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the obvious pattern with my colleague is that the correlation between the lack of voracity and intelligence in his argument is directly opposite to the volume which is used by my friend to express those opinions.

My friend shows outrage and feigned indignation when he knows that when the finance minister and other ministers swore themselves into cabinet, they said that they would not benefit from any of the decisions they would make.

The finance minister insinuated to Canadians that he would remove himself from the conflict of interest by removing himself from direct benefit from Morneau Shepell. We all believed it. We only found out recently that the finance minister had a villa in France. It was only through investigative journalism that we found out he had a numbered company established so he could shelter that villa when he passed it on to his kids. Each and every step along the way he has not been forward and transparent as the Prime Minister swore on stack of bibles he and all his ministers would be. This is a question of trust and integrity.

My friend from Winnipeg North has a particular job to do, which is to be in here and fill time or whatever it is that he seeks to do. However, the fact remains that the confidence required for a government to perform its duties rests on its integrity and its actions, and the actions of the finance minister.

I am sure in a more quiet moment, my friend will realize that this does nothing for the trust Canadians require in their government and certainly does nothing for the confidence he hopes the Liberals will regain in two years time.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to thank my colleague from Skeena—Bulkley Valley for his tireless efforts and the excellent work that he does on the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, often on short notice. He advocates for the issues that he cares about both inside and outside the House.

Once again, we have before us some major ethical issues involving this government. Over the past two years, we have talked about a number of scandals in the House and even outside the House with the media. The Liberals have shown that their government is anything but transparent. During the 2015 election campaign, the Liberals announced that the wind of change was blowing, that things would be different, and that their government would be transparent. However, the reason we are debating this Conservative motion today is that something unethical has occurred and we are trying to shed some light on it.

We are discussing an issue that I wish we did not have to discuss, because that is not why I decided to stand for election in my wonderful constituency of Jonquière in 2014. We were elected to represent and to serve the interests of Canadians, not those in a particular privileged class. If it turns out that the Minister of Finance's family business stands to profit from the measures proposed in the document entitled Tax Planning Using Private Corporations, we must therefore conclude that we have before us a major problem of ethics and transparency.

How is it that this government, just like the previous government, is not capable of being transparent and ethical in its dealings with all Canadians? We often hear talk of a cynicism towards politicians and politics in general. In my election campaign, in 2015, I did not urge people to vote for me; rather, I simply urged them to vote, to have their say. In a number of countries, people are risking their lives when they go to vote, so it is regrettable that, here in a democracy, we have to urge people to go vote. As we see in Quebec at the moment, as municipal elections are being held, there are advertisements urging people to vote.

Why then are there members of the House of Commons who do nothing but increase public cynicism and the sense of dishonesty and a lack of transparency?

I want to go back to the reason I entered politics, because it really was not for my own personal enrichment. I enjoy saying that I am a former mail carrier. I delivered mail all week for 15 years. I was very happy doing what I was doing, because I was providing people with a service. When I decided to stand for office, it was so that I could keep providing a service. As members of Parliament, that is something we often forget. We talk a lot about figures and about changes, but we forget all the little miracles that each member of this House can do every day.

At times, desperate people come to see us, as was the case this summer. For more than two months, a man had been having trouble obtaining his employment insurance benefits. It was the first time this had happened to him, and he did not know where else to turn. He came to our office in Jonquière. We welcomed him and provided him with some services and explanations. We even looked for additional help for him through the wonderful community organizations in Jonquière. That is our ultimate goal as MPs. That is what all of us in the House should be doing. We are not here to accumulate wealth, but to serve all Canadians.

Since I was speaking about my election and my commitments, I want to add that I had a meeting at the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner as soon as I arrived in Ottawa. I was given a document to fill out, which contained explanations. I do not come from a wealthy family. My family's riches consist of my parent's love and all the family values they taught me. That is what I am going to pass on to my children, and I believe that they are our greatest riches.

I am also pleased to say that I have owned my own wonderful little home for 12 years now. It is my pride and joy. At first, I thought it was a bit strange when the commissioner asked me to list my few assets on paper.

However, it did not take me long to realize that I was in the big leagues now. The members of the House of Commons come from all different backgrounds. Some are wealthy, while others are less fortunate. Some own multiple properties or companies. That was when I realized the importance of declaring our assets and being ethically transparent. Even though I did not own much property, I understood that disclosing what I did own was important, for me, for all our constituents, and for all Canadians. It is not difficult for members to fill out forms and be transparent from the outset if they have nothing to hide.

That brings me to the current government. As we have seen, this is not the first time this government has sought to benefit companies like the Minister of Finance's family business, Morneau Shepell. As my colleague said earlier, Bill C-27 could benefit these companies and benefit the Minister of Finance directly.

Certain experts have also pointed out that the Minister of Finance's tax reform could have economic benefits for Morneau Shepell, as I said, because it will force doctors and other small business owners to purchase private pension plans. The tax reform and all the suspected conflicts of interest involving the finance minister since he was elected are another good example of the fact that the Liberal government is working more for its own interests and those of its friends. It is working only for itself.

The Liberals keep repeating that the middle class is important, but I have to wonder whether they even know what exactly the middle class is. Is middle class determined by one's bank account or one's fortune? I see the real middle class every day, and I consider the people around me to be part of it. I help a lot of people around me. We talk about it and we live it every day. As MPs, it is important that we stay connected to our reality. We do not get that impression from the current government. No one should ever remain an MP if they are going to put their own interests first.

I will wrap up because I am running out of time. I had a lot more to say. We talked about tax reform and we talked about helping our SMEs. We see that the government has done nothing to tackle tax havens head-on. A lot has been said lately about investments in the Bahamas. Why is the Liberal government reluctant to tackle tax havens head-on? It is going after the little fish, but not the big fish. Is it too complicated, too difficult? It is easier to go after ordinary workers, those who belong to the middle class.

When I ran for office it was to represent my constituents of the riding of Jonquière, to give them a voice and to help my community grow. It never occurred to me to run to further my own interests or as a way to get rich. I believe that should be the case for everyone here in the House. I firmly believe that it is possible to do politics in an ethical and transparent manner. I find it extremely unfortunate that the Minister of Finance broke his word when he said that he was going to put his interests in a blind trust when in the end he did nothing of the sort. Worse yet, he introduced a bill to make himself richer. This kind of conduct is disappointing.

Again, I cannot believe that we are being forced to waste our time on settling ethics issues in the House, when we were elected to serve the public and not to serve the interests of the privileged few.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the member has indicated that she has, as have all of us, met with the Ethics Commissioner. She also indicated that, after having that communication with the Ethics Commissioner's office, she ultimately abided by what had been recommended to her. That is what I understood her to imply through the translation.

The Minister of Finance has done the very same thing. If in those discussions, Mary Dawson, our Ethics Commissioner, compels, requires, or requests that the Minister of Finance put things into a blind trust, he has indicated that he will do just that.

The member has stated the government is not going after tax evaders. We know that is not true. This government has invested hundreds of millions of dollars to recuperate taxes from individuals, so that everyone pays a fairer share. We see that with respect to the tax breaks to Canada's middle class, something the NDP and the Conservatives voted against. They voted against the special tax on Canada's wealthiest. They voted against the Canada child benefit program. Whenever they have the opportunity to oppose the Minister of Finance, they oppose him. Although they are in opposition, there is a responsibility for them to be creative and constructive in their criticisms. To that end, I would ask the member this. Would she not agree that the Minister of Finance, like all of us, is obligated to follow the recommendations and advice of the Ethics Commissioner?

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to address two of my colleague's points. First, as I mentioned, we wonder why the minister did not do what he was supposed to from the beginning. It is not complicated. You have to complete a questionnaire. Did he just forget because he has too many villas and too many assets? In that case, there is an obvious problem. When someone is caught red-handed, their excuse is that they forgot.

It was very easy to properly fill out the form at the beginning and to follow the questionnaire. It was clear. You do not have to wait. I added information about my credit card limit, which I had to increase because of my parliamentary expenses. I filled out my form over the phone. It was something I had to do. I did it right away. It is not a big deal, and I did it. It is our responsibility as members.

Second, I can throw back to my colleague the point about opposing something just to oppose it. Why did the government reject outright the bill sponsored by my colleague from Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, here in the House, which proposed a system for transferring family businesses that would have helped our SMEs and our family farms? That was an NDP proposal, one of many.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague from Jonquière on her very valid remarks. I think she made it clear that all parliamentarians have obligations. To be absolutely sure the air is clear and everything is out in the open, we are required to disclose everything we have, and government members such as parliamentary secretaries and ministers are no exception to that rule. I know the member is quite aware of the tax evasion happening in tax havens. I would invite her to comment on the information brought to light here three weeks ago by the member for Carleton when he tabled documents revealing, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Minister of Finance's company, Morneau Shepell, owned a company in Barbados that served as a tax shelter.