Debates of Oct. 23rd, 2017

Ethics

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing virtuous about a circle where the finance minister uses his power to make decisions to benefit himself and his company. In 2013, when the current finance minister was the executive chair of Morneau Shepell, he said, “We need legislation enabling Target Benefit Plans.” Then, once he became the finance minister, he introduced that very legislation. The finance minister has been receiving roughly $65,000 a month from Morneau Shepell the entire time. That is an obvious conflict. Did the finance minister recuse himself from all discussions about Bill C-27?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, while the opposition obsesses about my personal finances, I am going to continue to focus on what is going on for Canadians. That is what we really care about. What we are talking about is how the economy actually works. We know that by investing in Canadian families, by giving Canadian families more money, whether for healthier food or books for their kids, they can put money into the economy. What that does is improve our economy, helping those families not only today but tomorrow. Therefore, we will continue with our program, a program that is working.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last October, the current finance minister himself introduced Bill C-27, which will set up the same target benefit plans that he had called for as executive chair of Morneau Shepell. The finance minister has finally put his assets in a blind trust, but that does not fix the problem. Canadians are concerned about how he has admitted that he has no moral compass of his own. For the last two years, he introduced and crafted legislation that directly benefits himself and his billion-dollar family company. Why did the finance minister not recuse himself from all discussions about Bill C-27?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I know the members opposite will look for specific examples about me, but maybe I can provide some examples for Canadians: the example of old age security, making sure that people can get their old age security at age 65; the example of the guaranteed income supplement, which we are increasing so Canadian seniors can be in a better situation; or, enhancing the Canada pension plan so that Canadians in the future will have a better retirement. These are the sorts of retirement actions we are taking to make sure that Canadians can do well today and tomorrow, and that they will have a dignified retirement. That is our goal, and we are going to stick with it.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 2013 the current Minister of Finance was an executive at his own company, Morneau Shepell. At that time, he talked about the need to bring in legislation in Canada specifically to change the private pension system. That is one of the first things he did after being elected. On top of that, he continues to make money from Morneau Shepell. He put himself in a direct conflict of interest.

My question to the Minister of Finance is simple: did he reach out to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to ensure that his behaviour met all ethical standards?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the opposition keeps talking about my finances, but I will continue to focus on retirement security for Canadians. That is very important. As I have said, it is very important for Canadians to have an improved guaranteed income supplement so they can be in a better situation. It is also very important that people be able to retire at 65 with the old age security pension. Lastly, we improved the Canada pension plan for the future, and that is very important. We care about retirement in Canada. It is going to be—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. The hon. member for Beauce.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have questions about the minister's conflicts of interest.

He tabled a bill that will benefit him personally. He told Canadians he would put his assets in a blind trust but then failed to do so. He is up to his neck in conflicts of interest.

All we want to know, yes or no, is whether the minister recused himself from all discussions, especially those around Bill C-27.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I know that it is very important for members of the House to avoid conflicts of interest. That is exactly what I have done.

Going forward, our top priority will be thinking about how we can make things better for Canadian families across the country. That is our goal.

Fortunately, two years into our government's mandate, Canada is doing great. We have a very high growth rate, there are more jobs for Canadians, and Canadian families are better off. That is still our goal.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as a Bay Street executive, the finance minister lobbied for pension legislation that would directly benefit his company. As Minister of Finance, he introduced the very same legislation, and his Morneau Shepell shares jumped in value. The minister promised the Ethics Commissioner that he would never involve himself in any matters involving Morneau Shepell. Did the minister receive written approval from the Ethics Commissioner to allow him to break that promise and use his position in government to introduce legislation that would directly benefit him and his company?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have been focused on trying to improve the retirement system in Canada for a long time. I came into office looking at how we can continue to do that good work. Unfortunately, the previous government raised the retirement age for people getting old age security. Unfortunately, the people opposite did not support our goal of enhancing the Canada pension plan.

I am so proud that we have come into office and actually worked on how we can improve the retirement outcomes for Canadians by making sure we have a situation where people can retire at age 65, where those who need it have an increased guaranteed income supplement—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

The hon. member for Chilliwack—Hope.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance introduced pension legislation that directly benefited his own company. It is very telling that not a single Liberal member thought that the finance minister introducing the very legislation he had lobbied for as chairman of Morneau of Shepell could present a bit of an ethics problem. Did the finance minister receive written approval from the Ethics Commissioner to allow him to introduce pension legislation that he would personally profit from, or does the finance minister, like the Prime Minister, believe that the ethics rules do not apply to Liberals like him?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I will continue to work up to the highest standards of integrity of this House. What I know we can do to meet Canadians' expectations is to do that while doing things to improve the economy but also improve their family situation. That is what we continue to focus on.

The good news for Canadians is that the people they voted for put in place programs that have made a real difference for them and their families. They have more money, which means they can spend more which has helped our economy to grow. The good news is that tomorrow we will be able to show Canadians how well that has gone, and our program for the future.

Pensions

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is simple. The finance minister still owns a million shares in Morneau Shepell, a company that would directly profit by the passing of his bill, Bill C-27. This is a major conflict of interest.

Also, the government could have prevented the devastating effects of the Sears bankruptcy by simply changing Canada's bankruptcy insolvency laws. However, in true fashion, the Liberals continue to protect their rich corporate friends instead of protecting the pensions and benefits of middle-class Canadians. When will the finance minister stop this attack on workers' pensions, abandon Bill C-27, and protect workers?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Speaker, we have risen on this situation several times in the House and expressed our deep concern for the Sears workers, their families, and the many communities that have been impacted. That is why, as a government, we are working with Sears representatives to see them through this difficult time and provide assistance. Service Canada, for example, has been meeting with representatives of Sears Canada, and has held over 80 sessions. It continues to engage with the company.

With respect to the CCAA process, that matter is before the courts. We are monitoring the situation, and we will continue to work with the workers and their families.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in Timmins, North Bay, Sudbury, and Thunder Bay, the pension savings of Sears workers are on the line as the hedge fund creditors move in. This kind of pension theft is not only legal in Canada, but they get paid bonuses for doing it.

Our finance minister said that he has set up a virtuous circle. It works like this. He is making a fortune off Morneau Shepell's shares and they are in charge of the Sears pension fund. Therefore, his being caught and having to sell those shares is not virtuous enough. Will he work with us to change the law to protect pensions in corporate bankruptcy, or will he continue to do the bidding of his friends at Morneau Shepell?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Speaker, our government has been very clear when it comes to securing pensions. This is a priority for us. We want to work with the workers and the companies. We want to make sure that we have a process in place that gets the best possible outcome.

With respect to Sears, I understand that the current Sears Canada pension funds are held in trust and must be used solely for the benefit for pensioners. We are monitoring the situation that is before the courts under the CCAA process, and we will continue to work with the workers, their families, and the many communities that are being impacted.

Ethics

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister talks about a virtuous circle, and maybe he should focus on a virtuous line. This is a virtuous line that has seen his share in Morneau Shepell's stock rise by 31% since he became the finance minister. For the past two years, he has also been in charge of treaty negotiations with Barbados where Morneau Shepell has a subsidiary. It is simple: the sweeter the Barbados deal is, the better it is for him.

Did the finance minister follow the law and recuse himself from all discussions regarding the tax treaty with Barbados?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, maybe I can draw a distinction between different economic approaches. The members opposite had an idea for a decade that we could have trickle-down economics and maybe just wait for the benefits. We have a different idea. We have an idea that we are actually going to help people. What we are going to do is give more money to middle-class Canadians that will allow them to spend more money on their families and improve our economy in the short and the long term.

We are going to continue with our program that is working. We know that is what Canadians expect of us.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it only makes sense for the Minister of Finance to put his holdings in a blind trust.

However, things become unacceptable when the minister puts himself in a conflict of interest, as he did in the file involving the tax agreement with Barbados.

Can he answer the question that is on everyone's lips?

Did the minister recuse himself from the discussions on Barbados or any other file that would open the door to potential conflicts of interest?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I know that it is very important to have a tax system that works well. We have been clear on that. We will continue to improve our tax system to ensure that it is fair and works the way it is supposed to.

That is what we discussed last week with Canadians across the country. We lowered taxes for small businesses across the country, which is a very good move for investments in our economy.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it certainly would be nice to have a villa in the south of France. However, it does get chilly in the south of France. To escape the harsh Canadian climate, one would need a warmer destination, such as Barbados. The Minister of Finance knows all about the benefits of Barbados, such as a nice climate, beautiful beaches and, of course, a place to avoid paying taxes.

I ask the finance minister simply: Did he recuse himself from discussions around the Canada-Barbados tax treaty?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, while the members opposite obsess about my personal situation, I am going to remain resolutely focused on what we were elected to do, which was to help Canadians. They have been subjected to a decade of a government that was not actually focused on helping them. We immediately turned the channel on that approach by helping families with the Canada child benefit and by working to improve our economy. The good news is that two years later we are all feeling more confident about our future.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, one would have to be stuck on an island with their head firmly stuck in the sand to not see how bad a conflict of interest this is. Morneau Shepell set up an office in Barbados to avoid taxes. The finance minister owns and controls shares in Morneau Shepell while at the same time being responsible for regulating a tax treaty with Barbados, which was benefiting him directly.

Again, we ask a simple question. Did the Minister of Finance recuse himself from any discussions around the Canada-Barbados tax treaty?