House of Commons Hansard #220 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was finance.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is always an honour and a privilege to rise in this House. I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Pickering—Uxbridge.

I would like to thank the government for creating the conditions for all Canadians to succeed in a changing and exciting economy. When we came into office a couple of years ago, we made a commitment to invest in our people, our communities, and our economy. We made a commitment to help grow the middle class and those working hard to join it. The truth of the matter is that our plan is working.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Well done, Raj.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Those working hard just the same.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON

Mr. Speaker, even the opposition members agree that our plan is working, with their enthusiasm in hearing me speak in this House.

We are now the fastest-growing economy in the G7 by a wide margin. In the second quarter of this year, the economy grew by an impressive, strong 4.5%. Over the last four quarters, our economy has had the fastest growth rate since early 2006. In the two years since we came to office, 400,000 jobs have been created. In fact, in the last 12 months, nearly 90% of the jobs created were full-time jobs.

These pieces of great news are no accident, and the hon. members know that well. We laid the foundation for this economic growth the moment we took office. The first thing we did when we were elected in 2015 was raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% of Canadians while reducing them for the middle class. We are very proud of that decision. Single individuals who benefit from this tax cut are saving an average of $330 each year, and couples who benefit are saving an average of $540 each year. Our government has made child benefits more generous and better targeted to those who need them the most, with the new Canada child benefit lifting hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. Since July 2016, nine out of 10 Canadian families with children have been receiving more in child benefits, tax-free, than they did under the previous government.

We also expanded the Canada pension plan to ensure that Canadians are better off financially in retirement. The strengthened CPP will provide more money to Canadians when they retire so they can worry less about their savings and focus on enjoying time with their families. Strengthening the CPP will increase the maximum benefit by about 50% over time, giving retired Canadians a more dignified retirement.

The next step in our plan was to lower the small business tax rate from 11%—

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that there is leeway, and we have discussed relevance repeatedly today, but I have yet to hear anything in the member's speech that is relevant to the current motion.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

As I have mentioned in the past, I will leave it to the individual members. I have heard speeches go off on a tangent that I have questioned myself sometimes. However, hon. members do have a way of wrapping it up and actually proving a point, so I am going to leave it with the hon. member for Brampton East for now and let him continue, but I thank the member for bringing that up.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for bringing that up as well. He is a good friend of mine. I would like to thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your firm but fair decision.

The next step in our plan was to lower the small business tax rate from 11% when we came into office in 2015 to 10% in 2018, and then to 9% in 2019, while moving forward on proposals to fix a tax system that is inherently unfair to the middle class. The Prime Minister along with the Finance Minister made this intention clear last week during an announcement in Markham, and I certainly support it. To support this change, our government is also taking additional steps to ensure that Canadian-controlled private corporation status is not used by high-income earners to reduce their personal income tax obligations rather than supporting small businesses and job creation.

After announcing our intention to move forward with these proposed changes in budget 2017, the Minister of Finance launched a consultation to hear from Canadians on how to fix the system so that it works for the middle class. As a result of the feedback that we have heard from small business owners, we will not be moving forward with measures relating to the conversion of income into capital gains.

During the consultation period, we heard from business owners, including farmers and fishermen, that the measures could result in several unintended consequences, such as in respect to taxation upon death and potential challenges with intergenerational transfers of businesses. Our government will work with family businesses, including farming and fishing businesses, to make it more efficient and less difficult for them to hand down their businesses to the next generation.

In the short term, our government intends to simplify the proposal to limit the ability of owners of private corporations to lower their personal income taxes by sprinkling income to family members. The vast majority of private corporations will not be impacted by the proposed income-sprinkling measures. Only an estimated 50,000 family owned private corporations sprinkle income, which represents only a fraction, 3%, of Canadian-controlled private corporations. In all cases, our changes will support small businesses, the middle class, and their contributions to the economy. We know that small businesses are the backbone of our economy and will do everything to help them grow.

Colleagues, in this day and age in which there is so much misinformation, it is crucial that we set the record straight and stick to the facts, which is what we are trying to do here today. From the very beginning, we have been perfectly clear about our intentions and our commitment to make sure that as our economy grows, the benefits go to the middle class and those working hard to join it, and not just to those who have already been successful.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, what is important, I think, is talking about consistency—

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I am trying to hear the hon. member for Windsor West. He is down at the other end of the hall, but there is some chatter going back and forth there. Please have consideration for the Speaker who is very interested in what the hon. member has to ask.

The hon. member for Windsor West.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, my colleague spoke in the House of Commons on September 28 about taxation. He sits on a committee that brought recommendations forward about accountability and transparency and he raised that issue here in the House.

It is hard to listen to Liberal members. This could not have been what the Liberals ran on in 2015. Basically, a millionaire is telling working Canadians one thing while he himself profits and then cannot even come clean about it. It seems that in explaining this behaviour, the member for Brampton East is almost facilitating this behaviour.

I say this because on September 28, the member for Brampton East stood in the House and asked the Minister of National Revenue to find solutions for what the Minister of Finance and others in this country were doing in using offshore accounts and numbered companies to hide their assets. Not only are they using them to hide their assets, but they are using them to make it difficult for people to research their assets. The Liberals had a bill in the House of Commons that could have provided more accountability and transparency about numbered companies such as the minister has.

I would ask the member to reflect on his comments in this place on September 28 about the need for more transparency. Why is it okay for some members, like the Minister of Finance, to use offshore accounts? Does he think that is fair to the working class? Does he think it is fair to people who are paying taxes? Does he think it is fair to those individuals who can barely get by, let alone use the tax system to hide their money to pay less?

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his very spirited question.

The question that I asked of the hon. Minister of National Revenue on September 28 was about tax evasion and tax avoidance and what our government has done to ensure that all Canadians pay their fair share of taxes. Our government is investing money back into the Canada Revenue Agency after 10 years of substantial cuts to that agency, thereby allowing it to go after tax cheats in this country and ensuring that people are not putting their assets offshore so they do not have to pay taxes in Canada.

It is always difficult for me to hear the NDP talk about the middle class and small businesses, because when those members had the opportunity to help the middle class and to help Canadian children, they voted against a middle-income tax cut and the Canada child benefit. The latter has been deemed the number one social services program in the last decade, and has lifted 300,000 children out of poverty. The NDP gets up in the House time and time again and yet when that party has an opportunity, it votes no.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Vancouver East, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship; the hon. member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, Child Care; the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, National Defence.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to the motion and to update this House on our work and the progress we have made in delivering on our promise to build a stronger middle class. As with all members of Parliament, the Minister of Finance worked closely with the Ethics Commissioner when taking office. As we all know, the Ethics Commissioner is tasked with preventing conflicts between private interests and the public duties of all 338 members of the House of Commons.

Last week, the Minister of Finance announced that he was going above and beyond the Ethics Commissioner's recommendations by establishing a blind trust for all assets held by him and his family. These steps are being taken by the minister so he can maintain the public's trust and so there are no distractions from his important work to strengthen and grow the middle class.

From the moment we took office, we have implemented changes that will benefit middle-class Canadians. One of the government's first actions was to cut taxes for the middle class and to raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% of Canadians. This middle-class tax cut has benefitted and will continue to benefit nine million Canadians.

We also brought in the new Canada child benefit, which has lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. As a result of the CCB, nine out of 10 Canadian families are receiving more in benefits than they did under the previous system. With the CCB, we have ensured that child benefits are more generous and that those benefits are better targeted to those who need them most. According to economists and the Governor of the Bank of Canada, the CCB has directly contributed to increased household consumption and effectively stimulated our economy.

Our government also expanded the Canada pension plan to ensure that Canadians have security after a lifetime of hard work. The strengthened CPP will provide more money to Canadians when they retire so they can worry less about their savings and focus more on enjoying time with their families.

As everyone can see from our actions, the principle of fairness is embedded in our efforts to strengthen and maintain Canada's middle class. It is clear to us that when we have an economy that works for the middle class we have a country that works for everyone.

Now, let us talk about small business. We all know that small businesses are the backbone of our economy. Small businesses are a key driver of Canada's economy, accounting for 98% of all businesses and more than 70% of all private sector jobs. In recognition of how critical small businesses are to Canada's economy, the government is taking action to help them grow, invest, and create well-paying jobs. Our recent announcements regarding small businesses will continue that work.

Last week, the Prime Minister announced the government's intention to lower the small business tax rate to 10% in 2018 and then to 9% in 2019. As a result, the combined federal, provincial, and territorial average tax rate on small businesses would go from 12.9% from 14.4%, by far the lowest in the G7, and fourth lowest among OECD countries. This lower rate will mean small businesses can retain more of their earnings to reinvest in and grow their businesses while supporting the creation of jobs.

The Prime Minister also announced the government's intention to move forward on proposals to fix a tax system that is inherently unfair to the middle class. Right now, the fact remains that we have a tax system that encourages wealthy individuals to incorporate. It leads to a situation wherein someone making $300,000 can save as much in tax as the average Canadian earns in a year. That is not fair and our government is determined to fix it.

We have listened to small business owners, professionals, farmers, and fishers during the consultation and are acting on what we have heard to avoid unintended consequences. That is precisely why we are moving forward with a simplified proposal to limit the ability of a small number of high-income owners of private corporations to lower their personal income taxes by sprinkling their income among their family—

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

The hon. member for Markham—Unionville has a point of order.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Mr. Speaker, this speech is totally irrelevant to the motion.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

As I mentioned earlier when the other hon. member brought it up, I have to trust the hon. members that sometimes what seems like a tangent gets brought back around.

I will leave it with the hon. member for Pickering—Uxbridge to continue.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member missed the opening remarks of my speech when I spoke about the motion.

I will continue with the important work our government is doing in ensuring our system is fair and that personal income taxes are not being unfairly used to simply lower a family member's tax for people who do not work in the business.

The vast majority of private corporations will not be impacted by this proposed income sprinkling measure. Only an estimated 50,000 family-owned private businesses are sprinkling income. This represents only a small fraction, around 3%, of Canadian controlled private corporations.

In addition, the government announced it would not be moving forward with proposed measures to limit access to lifetime capital gains exemption or with measures relating to the conversion of income into capital gains.

During the consultation period, our government heard from business owners, including many farmers and fishers, that the measures could result in several unintended consequences, such as taxation upon death and potential challenges with intergenerational transfers of businesses.

In the coming year, our government will continue its outreach to farmers, fishers, and other business owners to develop proposals to better accommodate intergenerational transfers of businesses, while protecting the fairness of our tax system.

As we continue to make progress, we will also continue to carefully consider the submissions the government has received.

As I conclude my remarks, I want to reassure my hon. colleagues that our government's plan to grow and strengthen the middle class is working. Job creation has been robust since we came into power, with 400,000 jobs created. In fact, over the last 12 months, nearly 90% of the jobs created were full-time positions. In the second quarter of this year, the economy grew by an impressively strong 4.5%.

Over the last four quarters, our economy has had its fastest growth since early 2006. The fact is that the Canadian economy is the fastest growing economy in the G7. This is news of which Canadians can be proud.

The Government of Canada continues to work to create a healthy and growing economy in which businesses generate well-paying jobs and where the middle class and those working hard to join it have confidence that they can succeed.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Mr. Speaker, when my kids were younger, we used to watch a show called Barney & Friends. I recall there was a song in that show “If all the raindrops were lemon drops and gum drops Oh what a rain that would be.” That was the kind of speech we just heard, but it had nothing to do with the motion.

We are talking about the ethical standards of the finance minister, which shakes the very foundation of trust in our finance minister with respect to stock holdings in a private corporation in Alberta. By the way, Morneau Shepell shares have risen by 31% since the finance minister has taken power. It begs this question. How much of the decision making the finance minister has made has affected not just his personal wealth but the personal wealth of his friends as well?

Let us get back to the topic. Let us talk about the ethical standards. How can the member sit here and completely ignore what Canadians now know, that the minister did not act ethically in declaring not just those stocks in Alberta, but also by not declaring that French villa in a private corporation? How much has he profited from this? The member cannot ignore that.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, what I cannot ignore is the irony by the members opposite. I spoke at the onset about the fact that the Minister of Finance followed the rules by the Ethics Commissioner. On top of that, he is going above and beyond her recommendations to ensure Canadians can have trust in their Minister of Finance.

What is ironic, coming from the members opposite, is that the rules were put in place by the previous government and they were followed by the Minister of Finance.

Let me remind them that former employment minister Jason Kenney was fined by the Ethics Commissioner for breaking the rules and for not disclosing stocks that were traded. Former minister Peter MacKay was fined twice. In this instance, I have a lot of faith and trust in our government for not only following the rules, but for going above and beyond the recommendations and not acting like the previous government where members were fined on multiple occasions.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I must say that I quite liked the member for Barrie—Innisfil's question, because the government really does seem to be sending out members who, in good conscience, say that they have confidence in their government.

Like all Canadians, they had confidence. Naturally, no one thinks the Minister of Finance would do this. However, he did. That is a fact. We will go down in history for debating the biggest conflict of interest case ever seen in the House. All of the mid-term reports make it clear what kind of media storm you are in. You have lost control. You are sending out young members of Parliament to try to make excuses for the inexcusable. That is not right.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Before we continue, I remind the member, who often forgets, that he must address the Chair. The member for Pickering—Uxbridge has the floor.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Mr. Speaker, I did not quite hear a question in that statement, but I find it a little offensive to suggest that the government has asked young members to speak on behalf of the Minister of Finance. I was duly elected by the voters of Pickering—Uxbridge. I will stand in the House to speak on issues that are important to them. I am not forced to go out by anyone in the government. I am here to represent my community.

I will continue to fight and speak up on the fact that the Minister of Finance followed the rules and recommendations by the Ethics Commissioner, went above and beyond that, and continues the good work to help people in Pickering—Uxbridge and across the country. We have seen the results, with the impressive economic numbers that have been released over the last number of months.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

October 23rd, 2017 / 4:40 p.m.

NDP

Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to be sharing my time with the member for Victoria.

This is such an interesting discussion. The member lauded the performance of the finance minister, but I want to take us back to the mandate letter that was given to the finance minister by the Prime Minister. He called on him to respect the values of a government. It stated:

We have promised Canadians a government that will bring real change--in both what we do and how we do it....We have also committed to set a higher bar for openness and transparency in government....It is important that we acknowledge mistakes when we make them. Canadians do not expect us to be perfect – they expect us to be honest, open, and sincere in our efforts to serve the public interest....you must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality, and both the performance of your official duties and the arrangement of your private affairs should bear the closest public scrutiny. This is an obligation that is not fully discharged by simply acting within the law.

In summary, to me, this meant that not only the letter of the law must be upheld; the Prime Minister asked his ministers to go well beyond the letter of the law.

The finance minister let the public believe, including his fellow Liberal MPs and Bay Street colleagues, that he had placed his assets in a blind trust and he let them continue to sustain that belief for two years without correcting the record. Instead, he has been in a position to profit from policies he has advanced as finance minister over that two year period. The finance minister let that untruth stand. He took action last week, two years too late. It seems the only reason he took that action was because he was finally caught.

The finance minister was directed to take the highest ethical path. Instead, the government is barely scraping by. The minister's self-congratulatory tone last week about his belated tidy up of his ethical lapse is totally out of line. He belatedly took action that he should have taken two years ago if he had followed the Prime Minister's direction or the Ethics Commissioner's secondary advise, and if he had any common sense or clue about how this would play out in public.

This is particularly troublesome, given the hard summer we have had in the small business and entrepreneurial community, being accused of similar ethical lapses and exploitation of tax loopholes.

Paul Williams, a constituents from my riding of Nanaimo—Ladysmith, wrote:

While I certainly believe in tax fairness, I do not support what the Finance Minister is proposing and the uncertainly and harm that will result. The changes being contemplated go against the notion of tax fairness. In essence, the changes being contemplated will single out privately held business owners--many of whom are middle-class income earners--treating them worse than publicly held and foreign controlled businesses.

I have hundreds of letters like this. The finance minister's proposal scared small business owners and it unjustly accused them of wrongdoing.

As it turns out, the real tax loophole exploiter was the finance minister, which really is the icing on the cake of a really bad four months in the government. His self-congratulatory air last week of suddenly dismantling a so-called tax fairness proposal, which he said back in July he would not change a word of, and had in fact already written the legislation, was also out of line. If he had done what a real legislator would have done, he would have said that it was a consultation and he would have asked people what they thought. He would told people not to be alarmed, that he might or might not do it. Now, all of a sudden, he says that he is willing to hear the advice and willing to keep his election promise on the small business tax cut, which he previously said he would cancel.

He is now dealing with legislation. He is going to accept the rules that our NDP parliamentary leader proposed on facilitating the transfer of intergenerational companies. Six months ago, the Liberals voted it down. Then last week they used it as cover for a real mess. That shows they really do not have the ear and the tone of the country.

At the time of his election, the finance minister owned two million shares in Morneau Shepell worth $32.1 million. Apparently, that holding, as of Friday, would be worth $42 million. That means he has profited over $10 million over the last two years as finance minister.

However, he did not put them in a blind trust. He did not sell them in an arm's-length transaction, as required, within 120 days of taking office. It has since been revealed that Morneau Shepell has a contract with the Bank of Canada worth more than $8 million. The finance minister was asked nearly 20 times about his million shares that he still owns in Morneau Shepell, worth $20 million, before he admitted that he would actually give an answer. Finally, he failed to reveal the corporation that houses his French villa. CBC maintains that the minister only disclosed that corporation to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner just last month, after CBC discovered its existence, and, really, that is when he started to answer questions on it.

It is undeniable, when we turn to Bill C-27, that if it were to become law, Morneau Shepell would significantly benefit in business and revenue, and as a massive investor, the finance minister would personally benefit from the passage of that bill. The minister brought that bill to Parliament. He could have had another member of the party do that, but, instead, he was the lead on it. This was done without consultation and certainly not with the support of constituents in my riding.

Morneau Shepell is a strong proponent and manager of the services related to target benefit pension plans, and could be just one of four firms in the country that would benefit from new pension administration rules if Bill C-27 becomes law. In fact, when the finance minister was at the helm of Morneau Shepell, it lobbied for increased use of target benefit pension plans and became the lead consultant for the Government of New Brunswick in exactly implementing this.

Five days after Bill C-27 was tabled, the value of shares in Morneau Shepell increased by almost 5%, which is an increase that could have allowed the minister to make as much as $2 million. This is really not a middle-class problem. At the very least, this is a striking perceived conflict of interest, since the minister was in a position to further his own private interests through his public duties as a finance minister.

Bill C-27, as much as it benefits Bay Street, would significantly harm workers and pensioners.

Here is what residents of Nanaimo—Ladysmith have told me about Bill C-27.

Pieter Terpstra from Nanaimo writes:

Please, say NO to bill C-27. I am a retired school teacher/logger/proprietor who relies solely on small pensions to survive. I do not want them converted to a target benefit plans. I spent my life working at many different jobs and it's wrong, for them to take away my security in my old age.

It's shameful that [the Prime Minister] promised to protect Defined Benefit Plans and now the government is considering this Bill to change that.

We also have a description of how harmful this is from Deborah Zellermeyer from Ladysmith. She writes:

Bill C-27 allows employers to convert good, defined benefit pension plans, which provide secure and predictable pension benefits, into a much less secure form of plan. Target benefit plans only aim to provide benefits, and they shift all the risk to active plan members and retirees.

Even Harper did not propose the bill, although he floated it, and the opposition was so strong.

The Ethics Commissioner said that she outlined the possible conflict when the finance minister met with her two years ago. She said that there is a loophole she thought should have been fixed, as had been recommended to the previous government as well. Therefore, as New Democrats, with our leader, Jagmeet Singh, we are trying to propose positive alternatives.

We want the Ethics Commissioner to launch a formal investigation into the finance minister. We want the finance minister to withdraw Bill C-27. We want the Liberal government to take the advice of the Ethics Commissioner and close these loopholes so that no future minister ever stumbles into the same morass that the finance minister has, fulfill the promise that Liberals offered to voters two years ago, and restore some faith in the current government.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Mr. Speaker, the matter before us is about the ethical standards of an individual who has had an unassailable person history of ethical behaviour of the highest order. On the other hand, the important issue has been the potential impact of the proposed tax measures and subsequently the impacts of Bill C-27. What we are hearing is that the same question was asked 20 times over, so what we have had on behalf of the Canadian public is what to my mind is a terrible waste of time.

We had consultations, for instance in my own riding, on the tax reforms. We brought those consultations back. They are being reviewed by the finance minister and his staff. I just put further information before his staff and those people are happily engaged in dealing with those issues. However, we have not heard very much at all from the other side about the specifics of those reforms and the changes and potential changes. All we are hearing is an incessant personal attack against a man who has lived a life of very high ethical behaviour. Therefore, to my friend across the way, are you serving the public interest, the interest of your constituents, by avoiding the real issues, which are the tax reforms and the details of the bill, versus personal attacks against an individual?

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance and Conflict of Interest ActBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Once again, I want to remind the hon. members to place their questions through the Chair, in the third person, not directly. That is just a little reminder. I know we get caught up in our discussions occasionally.

The hon. member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith.