Debates of Nov. 21st, 2017

Ethics

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, MPs on both sides of the House often engage in attacks that are sometimes personal and sometimes based on facts. That is how democracy works. That is how we know that a government is rigorous in the way it deals with various issues.

However, we are working with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to go beyond partisan politics and to make sure Canadians know that every person in this House follows the rules and is worthy of the confidence of Canadians. That is what the Minister of Finance did.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, these Liberals only work with the Ethics Commissioner after they get caught breaking the ethics laws.

Therefore, let us be clear. Either the finance minister lied to the Prime Minister, or the Prime Minister did not even bother to ask, or the Prime Minister simply believes that Liberals are just above the rules. Which is it? Did anyone ever tell the Prime Minister that his finance minister was clear to table Bill C-27 before the bill was introduced in Parliament?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, every member of this House, when they arrive to serve, works with the Ethics Commissioner to ensure that their personal situation, their financial situation, is in order and aligned with the high expectations that Canadians have of each of us in this House. The Minister of Finance worked with the Ethics Commissioner to ensure that the decisions he would take, whether it was putting in a screen or whether it was various personal dispositions, would ensure that Canadians could have confidence that everyone in this House is following the rules.

Public Services and Procurement

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when we ask about the Phoenix pay system fiasco, every answer from the Liberals is to blame the Conservatives for it. Against the advice of their experts and public servants, they decided to push the button.

They cannot hide behind the Conservatives. They have underestimated the problems. They still do not have a comprehensive plan, and worse, they do not know the full extent and causes of those problems. While they act like amateurs, hundreds of thousands of public servants are feeling the pain.

How long will the Liberals keep throwing good money after bad? Who will be held accountable and who will fix this mess?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government did not create this mess, but we are going to fix this mess.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I know that everybody wants to take part in question period, but, of course, the way it works is that only two members do and the rest are required to listen and not interrupt. I know that members do not want to break the rules.

The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative government bought this system, created this system, and we will fix this system. It is unacceptable that Canadians not be paid for the work they are doing. That is why we are working so hard with different ministries, public servants, and different unions to ensure that we fix this Phoenix pay system. It is something that Canadians expect, and it is something that we are going to fix.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it was the current government that said that the system was good to go.

The Liberals have no idea what is causing the problem, nor do they know the extent of it, and to top it off, they are making the situation worse.

The Auditor General made it clear that fixing Phoenix, if indeed it can be fixed, will take years and cost us over $1 billion. In response, the Prime Minister said the same thing he said last year, the same thing he said the year before, and the same thing he is likely to say a year from now.

When Canadians buy something that does not work, they take it back for a refund.

Have the Liberals kept the receipt so they can get their money back, or will Canadians end up paying for this?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as Canadians know, the former Conservative government bought the system, developed it, and fired the workers who were supposed to handle the transition.

We are fixing Phoenix. We are working with the public service, with unions, and with all our private-sector partners to fix and improve the system. We are working hard because people not getting paid, not getting the money they are entitled to, is unacceptable.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, hello, you have reached the Canada Revenue Agency. Your call is important to us.

Seriously, if you expect to speak with a person, good luck. Half the time your call will be blocked, and more often than not, you will not get through to a person. If you actually happen to speak to someone, there is a 30% chance that you will be given the wrong information. Have a nice day.

While the Liberals allow their friends to get richer using tax havens, they are turning their backs on Canadians who could use a little help.

Is this how the Liberals deliver public services to Canadians and Quebeckers?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we were elected on a promise to improve services to Canadians.

We recognize that we had a lot of work to do, because for years under the Conservative government, massive cuts were made to the Canada Revenue Agency. That is why, in our first budget, we invested $50 million to improve services to Canadians.

However, we know that there is still a lot of work to be done, and we are working on it. We thank the Auditor General for his report, and we continue to work together.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, do we all get the sense that even he does not believe his own spin anymore? The PM needs to change his slogan from “real change” to “Please hold. Your call is important to us. Waiting time is forever.”

The Auditor General has exposed how the government is totally failing Canadians. CRA has been blocking half the calls, and the one-third that actually make it through get bad or wrong advice. For those looking to avoid paying their taxes, Liberals have a good answer for them. For Canadians trying to pay their taxes, they put them on hold.

Let us all listen to the Prime Minister explain how this mess is helping out the middle class and those working hard to join it.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in the last election, two parties, the Conservatives and the NDP, committed to balance the budget at all costs, including through cutting services—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. Do members wish to shorten question period?

Order. The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what happens when governments choose to balance the books at all costs. They cut services to Canadians, and Canadians suffer. We are working hard to fix their messes. We are working hard to improve services for Canadians.

We thank the Auditor General for his report, which is very helpful. We will endeavour to do even more to serve Canadians the way they need.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. This is a place where there are criticisms that fly back and forth, and most members can hear them without reacting. I think the rest are capable of doing the same.

The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

Ethics

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance swore that he put his shares in a blind trust and then we learned that he never did. The Minister of Finance assured us that he had declared all his assets and then we learned that he was fined by the commissioner for failing to disclose a company. From the beginning of the session, the minister has repeated that he has always worked with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and, oddly enough, today we read in the Globe and Mail that the minister never worked with the commissioner on his Bill C-27.

Can the Prime Minister tell us why Canadians would still trust the Minister of Finance?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what is expected of all parliamentarians in the House is that they work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. The Minister of Finance did so as soon as he took office. He has always followed the recommendations of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, including setting up a screen to prevent conflicts of interest, which he did at the outset. That screen is still in place today. The minister announced that he would go the extra mile and divest himself of all his shares in Morneau Shepell and place all his assets in a blind trust so he could continue focusing on the important work he has been doing for two years. I can understand that the opposition members do not want to talk about the Minister of Finance's record, which includes 500,000 jobs and the lowest unemployment rate in 10 years, because such an achievement is beyond their wildest dreams.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister's so-called ethical screen gets weaker every day. After introducing Bill C-27, which helps his own family business, the only argument the minister has left is to say that he now miraculously has some integrity because he sold his shares and made a donation. What does the government have to say about the level of integrity he has shown over the past two years?

Will the Prime Minister finally admit what all Canadians know, that his finance minister has been in a direct conflict of interest for the past two years?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what all Canadians know is that, in this place, the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner is responsible for safeguarding the integrity of Parliament. Like us, Canadians expect all parliamentarians to work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and follow her recommendations. They expect her to tell each of us what to do based on our own individual circumstances. That is what the commissioner did for the Minister of Finance. He always followed her advice and recommendations. He will continue to work with her to live up to the highest standards of integrity that Canadians expect.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister and the finance minister are the two most powerful lawmakers in Canada. The finance minister's Bill C-27 will directly benefit his billion dollar family business, Morneau Shepell, and he still held shares in Morneau Shepell when he introduced that bill. The Prime Minister and the finance minister and his staff all claim he has been working with the Ethics Commissioner from the start, but now, the Prime Minister and two of his cabinet ministers are under investigation by the Ethics Commissioner. How can Canadians trust the Prime Minister?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what is expected of all parliamentarians is to work with the Ethics Commissioner, who is responsible to safeguard the integrity of this Parliament. The finance minister has always worked in full transparency with the Ethics Commissioner, has always followed her recommendations, will continue to do so, and of his own accord has decided to go above and beyond, divesting all his shares in Morneau Shepell, and placing all of his assets in a blind trust so that he can continue to do the important work and avoid any further distraction. I understand the opposition. Members do not want to talk about his record because, when it comes to the economy, he has steered the ship in the right direction for the last two years, creating half a million jobs.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I would ask the hon. member for Abbotsford not to be talking throughout the time when someone else has the floor. We love to hear his voice. It is a great baritone, but only when he has the floor.

The hon. member for Lakeland.