House of Commons Hansard #149 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was money.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I too am frustrated that the member has not in any way addressed what the critical issues are before the House today.

I raised this question earlier, and I would like to put it to the hon. member. The government essentially has two choices. One is that it can toughen up the government procurement rules so that it would not have to actually achieve a conviction for tax evasion, a criminal offence, so it could ban those who undertake serious tax evasion from further procurement or contracts with the government. The other is that the government could get serious and start charging people and getting convictions.

Why is the government letting Canadians who are hiding hundreds of millions of dollars from Canadians get away with that? That money could go toward aboriginal children, it could go toward providing child care, or it could go to reducing taxes for ordinary Canadians.

Why is the government not taking either of those two measures? Would my colleague consider doing so?

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Speaker, as indicated, our government believes that all Canadians must pay their fair share of taxes, and once again, we recognize that most Canadians already do so. The investments we have made in budget 2016 include $444 million to actually provide the department and the staff with the tools they need to do the proper investigations. Investigations of this nature are very complex, and we recognize that there is a lot of sharing of information and processes that need to be put in place. We need to make sure we are working with our provincial partners, our national partners, and our international partners to make sure we can get the job done, because we want to crack down on this issue.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, the motion called for, “ending penalty-free amnesty deals for individuals suspected of tax evasion”. Will the government support this part of the motion or not?

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Speaker, as I believe I indicated at the beginning of my presentation, the government is prepared to support this motion, and we are very pleased that the member opposite has put this motion forward.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments that have been made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance. Maybe we could just get her to provide a comment on more of an overview. When we look at last year's budget and what it was able to accomplish, it is very easy to draw the conclusion that this is a government that is all about tax fairness, whether it is a special tax that has been assigned to Canada's wealthiest, a tax break that has been given to the middle class, or in fact the $444 million to which the member has made reference in terms of trying to get to the core issues dealing with tax evasion. However, if we look at it from a holistic approach, we see the government is in fact moving forward on a number of files, including tax evasion.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, I agree completely with the question and the premise of the question. Our government has made a commitment to Canadians that middle-class Canadians and those working hard to join them are our priority, and we are going to continue to make them our priority. In budget 2016, we saw some clear programs that illustrated our support for middle-class Canadians.

The first of those programs, as I mentioned in my speech earlier today, was the reduction of taxes for middle-class Canadians from 22% to 20.5%. It allowed many Canadians to have more money in their pockets, to spend more money, and to invest into the economy and again to stimulate that economy.

The other program that I am very proud of, as well, is the historic investment we have made with the Canada child benefit program. The Canada child benefit program has lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, and it has made a clear difference in the lives of many Canadian families.

When it comes to our seniors, we have made again some significant investments to help the lives of our seniors. That is another measure that we took to help the middle class.

Finally with respect to the amount of money we have put in place with respect to the bill that is before us, the $444 million that has been put in place to help address the issue of tax evasion, we want to make sure Canadians are paying their fair share of taxes. That being said, as I have said time and again, most Canadians are paying their fair share of taxes; but for the ones who are not, we certainly want to make sure we have the processes in place to get the job done and also that those individuals can be prosecuted and receive the appropriate penalties.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the member this question. In 2011 and 2015, in fact in the Liberal platform, the Liberals promised that they would close the stock option loopholes. After the election, of course, the Minister of Finance was asked about whether he would proceed with this plan, and he said it is not on the agenda. I would like the member to answer this question. Why is it not on the agenda after the Liberals promised that to Canadians?

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Speaker, once again, our platform in 2015 is based on a four-year commitment. We have just finished budget 2016, budget 2017 is going to be announced within the next little while, and then we have budgets 2018 and 2019. Again, we have four years to roll out our platform, and we are going to do so.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, everyday working people or small-business owners who pay their taxes late pay interest and penalties. The tax collector chases them. They can even be criminally charged. However, if people are part of the 1%, the government chooses to protect them. If they break the rules, they can even avoid a fine by negotiating a deal with the government.

Would the member end penalty-free amnesty deals, as we have seen, for individuals suspected of tax evasion? We have not seen action from the government. In fact, the government is choosing to uphold loopholes for the rich instead of closing them. Direct action on this issue would be closing tax loopholes for the rich, these tax agreements that are in place, which are legal, and going after people who are actually breaking the rules on the backs of everyday Canadians.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Speaker, I would particularly like to remind the member opposite that we were the government that taxed the 1%, and the party opposite voted against that. I felt that I had to, first of all, say that.

With respect to the investments our party has made, we have made investments to help the CRA properly conduct the investigations that need to be done. These investigations are extremely complex, and we want to make sure that they are done appropriately. That is why I am very pleased that in budget 2016, money was put forward, because we want to ensure that we do those investigations and that we do them in an efficient and effective manner.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the fine member of Parliament for Edmonton Manning, who, I am told, will be far more eloquent and on point.

I am pleased to rise today to speak on the motion presented by the hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie regarding taxation. I will be voting to oppose this motion. I will say that I would have preferred to support it and vote for it, as many of the principles it speaks to I support. I must also point out that the Conservative Party of Canada believes strongly in keeping taxes low, much as it also believes in ensuring that all corporations and Canadians need to pay their fair share of tax.

While this motion rightly seeks to reduce offshore tax evasion, it avoids one of the root causes of the problem, and that is too many taxes. We know that high taxes drive businesses out of the country and dampen Canada's entrepreneurial spirit. We know that high taxes hurt job creation by making it more difficult to start and run a business. We know that high taxes hurt Canadian families that are trying to build a brighter future for their children.

If we want to stop driving families and businesses out of this great country, we need to start by lowering taxes to make Canada more welcoming to them, yet it would seem that the government is doing precisely the opposite. Instead of looking at ways to foster entrepreneurship and business growth, the government is desperately looking for new ways to bring in more money to pay for its reckless and irresponsible spending. We have seen a report from Bloomberg pointing out that business investment in this country has fallen to the lowest level since 1981, and, depending on the statistics, we have seen low grades of investment since World War II. Therefore, this is an issue.

The government has failed to follow through on its promise to cut taxes for small businesses. Next it rolled back important tax cuts for Canadians, including the popular fitness and children's arts tax credits. Recently it started looking at whether to tax health and dental benefits. It is clear that the government just does not get it. It plans to make life more expensive for Canadians.

The Conservative Party will fight to make life more affordable, not less. When the Conservative government was in power, it was Prime Minister Stephen Harper who fought to do exactly that. Conservatives understood the value of low taxes and the importance of fighting tax evasion. A pragmatic and balanced policy would achieve both goals. For example, in economic action plan 2013, the Conservative government introduced a number of measures designed to deal with tax evasion, including requiring financial intermediaries, including banks, to report international electronic fund transfers of $10,000 or more to the CRA; extending the normal reassessment period by three years for taxpayers who have failed to report income from a specified foreign property on their annual income tax returns and have failed to properly file the foreign income verification statement; revising form T1135 reporting to provide more detailed information, including the names of specific foreign institutions and countries where offshore assets are located and the foreign income earned on those assets; and streamlining the process for the Canada Revenue Agency to obtain information concerning unnamed persons from third parties, such as banks.

Conservatives also launched the international tax evasion program aimed at reducing international tax evasion and avoidance. Under this program, the CRA would pay rewards to individuals with knowledge of major international tax non-compliance when they provided information to the CRA that led to the collection of outstanding taxes due. This program helped target high-income taxpayers attempting to evade or avoid tax using complex international arrangements.

Economic action plan 2015 built on these measures and announced an additional $25.3 million over five years to expand its activities to combat international tax evasion, and $58.2 million over five years to specifically deal with large and complex business entities that were undertaking tax evasion. I would note that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance has mentioned some of the investments the government makes, which shows that there are progressive efforts to curb tax evasion in this country.

These measures help make sure that every Canadian pays their fair share. In fact, between 2006 and 2015, the Conservative government aggressively moved to close more than 85 tax loopholes. Closing these loopholes amounted to billions of dollars saved annually. That meant lower taxes for all Canadians, not just a select few.

It is not just us who believe that these measures have helped. In the fall of 2013, when the Auditor General conducted a review of offshore banking, it was concluded that CRA was diligent and that the new measures were helping. Our plan worked on this very issue and is continuing to help CRA crack down on tax evaders. We will continue to advocate that the Liberal government consistently review how it can best address the problem.

Beyond taking direct action to combat international tax evasion, the Conservative Party also took steps to encourage new investment to come to Canada by building a tax-friendly environment for businesses. Conservatives understand that we need to be tough on tax cheaters while also making sure that our tax system is not driving people away. That is why we introduced a number of measures that reduced the overall tax burden in Canada to its lowest level in 50 years. In fact, the Conservative government cut taxes more than 180 times. That is because we do not simply say we will do something; we follow through with those commitments we make to Canadians.

Our record on taxes is clear. We lowered the federal corporate income tax rate to 15% to help create jobs and economic growth for Canadian communities. We lowered the small business tax rate. We introduced a small business job credit, which lowered payroll taxes by 15% for small businesses. We also cut the red tape burden for businesses, which eliminated more than 800,000 payroll deduction remittances to CRA made every year by over 50,000 small businesses.

All these measures and more led Bloomberg to rank Canada the second most attractive country in the world in which to start and grow a business. In fact, across the G7, Canada had the lowest overall tax rate on new business investment. By cracking down on tax evaders and lowering taxes and tax burdens for businesses, the Conservative Party introduced the kind of balanced approach needed to foster a fair and friendly system.

It is important to note that the NDP voted against every single small business tax cut we introduced between 2006 and 2015. I ask my hon. colleague why he does not put forward a motion that both targets tax evasion and lowers the tax burden for Canadian businesses. That is the sort of policy I want to see from the government: a pragmatic, balanced approach that will lower taxes rather than raise them and that will continue to build on the strong work done by the previous government to crack down on tax evasion.

It is critically important that we target Canadian tax evaders, absolutely. Certainly, I believe that all members in this place would agree on the importance of cracking down on international tax evasion. However, we must also fight to lower taxes to help spur job creation and economic growth and to keep Canada competitive with other jurisdictions. By doing this, we will save money for the Canadian taxpayer and work to make Canada the best place in the world to start and grow a business.

There are so many things we can do to make us more competitive so that business investment comes into this great country, such as interprovincial trade and lowering our regulatory burden, things that down south, the new administration is currently looking to do.

While I appreciate where the NDP members are coming from on this, I am sure that they would understand where I am coming from. Again, this is a fine country. I welcome debate on any topic a member of Parliament believes needs to be heard. We need to do more in the area of lowering taxes, coupled with the efforts we continue on tax evasion, so that overall, we can bring more prosperity to this country and curb illegal activities.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, both the member from rural British Columbia and I have seen wealth start in rural communities and leave rural communities. It cannot be more evident than in my riding right now in Port Alberni where a mill just closed down. Another mill is down to one shift from six. Raw log exports are leaving our communities. Our fish are on a steep decline because we have not invested in salmon protection, salmon restoration and salmon enhancement. Under the hon. member's government, we saw declines in those investments.

Maybe the member could talk to us about how his government tackled tax loopholes. During his time in government, child poverty in my community went up. One-third of the children living in my community are living in poverty.

Under the Conservative government, taxes left our country through tax havens, and went from $45.5 billion in 2011 to $108.3 billion in 2015. They more than doubled in less than five years under his government.

The member talks about taxes going lower. How much lower does he want to them go, 1% to 2% like those in Barbados? If that is the case, we will be in an even worse situation. When we listen to people in my community, I do not think it could get worse. People believe it is unfair.

Maybe the member could talk about whether he supports tax havens to Barbados, supports the doubling of taxes leaving our country. Maybe he could talk to coastal British Columbians and ask them if they think it is fair.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Speaker, I understand the member's concerns for his community. We are all concerned about our communities. The question is, how do we proceed in a fair and practical way? With respect to the previous government, when we look at the Auditor General's report on offshore banking, it said that new methods had been developed and were put to test with a Liechtenstein list, which was given to it, and they performed well. That is available for all members of Parliament to see.

Will I be able to address every one of his concerns? No. Our job is to continually ask the question. Is this a fair and practical way to solve tax evasion? Discussing it here today is a good thing. However, the New Democrats continue to say that illegal things happen. Yes, there will be illegal things. However, under what tools do we rein them in? They may have the sentiments, they may have the concerns, but I have not seen solid proposals from the New Democrats. All they say is that it is not enough, and maybe that is true, but I am a big believer in the old saying that any fool can criticize, and often does.

Maybe the New Democrats should start proposing concrete methods that are both fair and practical, and maybe we will support those measures.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, tax fairness, which includes issues such as tax evasion, is very important to this government. It is indeed a priority. It is part of the commitment we made to Canadians in supporting our middle class and those aspiring to be a part of it. It is important that we come up with some tangible issues and ways in which we deal with it.

I make reference to what has taken place in the budget of 2016, which reinforces our priorities for Canadians, being tax fairness. I want to highlight a couple of specifics. For example, we have implemented and enhanced reporting standards, which are endorsed by the G20 leaders, that will help close tax loopholes. We have signed tax treaties with other jurisdictions, which help provide information to crack down on tax cheats worldwide.

The member wants balance, and that is what this government is delivering, balance on the very important issue of tax fairness.

Would the member not acknowledge that in good part, a good, sound, government policy would in fact recognize that we need to have good taxation policies, which includes tax avoidance? We have delivered on that in tangible policy ideas and money, the $444 million that have been allocated to fight it.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would appreciate it if the member would remember my speech. I did say the current government had taken a lot of action that was built off the previous government. I would encourage that those things continue to be examined by parliamentary committees to ensure they are being done properly.

It is one thing to announce money and resources; it is another thing to see. Like we saw in 2013, the Auditor General reviewed the program and said that good work was being done.

I want to go back to the previous member. I criticized saying maybe the NDP needed to put forward solid proposals. There are some in the motion, such as addressing tax measures that probably benefit the wealthy, including its promise to cap the stock options deduction loophole.

I have consulted with tech companies in my region. They are quite concerned because stock options are a great way for start up companies to get high-quality people so they can create companies in which Canadians want to invest.

I do not necessarily believe in those kinds of solutions, but I appreciate the fact that the NDP has proposed options, and we will continue to debate them in this place.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, no one stands more firmly against tax evasion than the Conservative Party of Canada. We believe all taxpayers should pay what they owe in taxes, and there should be no special treatment.

The Conservative Party believes in keeping taxes low for all Canadians, but we also believe in ensuring that all corporations and individuals pay their fair share of tax. We are committed to lower taxes for all Canadians, not just a select few.

The previous Conservative government had a strong record of standing up to international tax avoidance. To enhance the integrity of the tax system, the Conservatives created the stop international tax evasion program, aimed at reducing international tax evasion and avoidance. We remain committed to addressing the issue of international tax evasion and avoidance and will continue to advocate for Canadian taxpayers.

Under the leadership of Prime Minister Harper, the government moved aggressively to close more than 85 tax loopholes, which saved the government and the taxpayers of Canada billions of dollars annually. However, I do have some concerns about the motion, which does not seem to take into account the structure of our tax system.

I think that it is offensive to Canadian taxpayers to suggest that those who take advantage of legitimate deductions and exemptions should be lumped in with those who are evading taxes by hiding money offshore. Certainly, those people who are able to claim, for example, the children's fitness tax credit or the arts tax credit, which were cancelled by the current government, were only trying to do what was best for their families. They used the deductions allowed them by law. I can only conclude that the hon. member who sponsored this motion does not understand that tax deductions are available to all Canadians. They are part of making the taxation system fair for all. They are not something offered to benefit the ultra wealthy.

No one disputes that tax evasion is a problem, whether it is $7 billion annually or $70 billion, but the hon. member cannot say for certain, as the number is only an educated guess. However, it is important to remember that we in the House are responsible for the laws and regulations of the taxation system. If there are loopholes, deductions, and exemptions, we have only ourselves to blame. It is not fair to blame the taxpayer for taking advantage of what they are legally entitled to, and I stress the word “legally” in this matter.

By all means, we should prosecute those who are breaking the law by avoiding paying taxes. However, given the spending habits of the current government, I applaud those who use legal means to keep money in their own pockets rather than hand it over to a pack of fiscally irresponsible spendthrifts who do not seem to understand that tax money is not theirs but given to them by Canadians in trust. Taxpayers expect and deserve wise stewardship from politicians, not $800,000 office renovations. No wonder people resent having to pay taxes when they see things like that happening.

The motion calls on the government to address tax measures that primarily benefit the wealthy, which seems reasonable enough. After all, we all know who the wealthy are. They are anyone who has more money than I do. That they may have earned their money through hard work and innovation would seem to be irrelevant. It is assumed by some that those they consider wealthy should be paying more, even though we talk about treating all taxpayers fairly and equally.

Perhaps a case can be made that those who have more should pay more, but I do not see the case being made in this motion. Indeed, we already have different tax brackets in Canada. The wealthy are already paying more. Therefore, exactly what measures does the motion address? We are left to speculate.

The government is also told that it should take aggressive action to tackle tax havens. The how and why is left to the imagination. I believe that if we have a fair taxation system, there will not be the same incentive there is now for those who know how to shelter their money offshore. When people do not believe the taxation system is fair, when people do not believe the government spends tax revenue wisely, it is very tempting to look for ways to keep their money out of the hands of the taxman. What we need is a government that understands that budgets do not balance themselves, a government that does not pile things like a carbon tax on hard-working Canadians.

The motion calls on the government to tighten rules for shell companies. Once again, there is no definition to be found here. It is assumed we are in agreement that shell companies need additional rules and regulations, but there is no rationale set forth in the motion. We have to take the hon. member's word that this is a problem. I do not see any suggestion of illegality here, just a call for something to be done.

The government is also told to renegotiate tax treaties that let companies repatriate profits from tax havens to Canada tax-free.

I do not think I was in the House when those treaties were approved by Parliament, but I cannot say for certain as the motion does not say which treaties should be renegotiated. I can only assume the government is supposed to know these things, perhaps through mind reading. Nor do I know why the treaties were negotiated to allow tax-free profit taking. There was probably a good reason at that time. The House can of course change its mind if it feels a mistake was made in the past.

What I do know is that renegotiating treaties carries certain risks. There has been a lot of publicity recently about politicians who want to renegotiate certain treaties. The implication is that there are winners in such negotiations and there are losers. There is not always equal treatment. If we ask to reopen a treaty, while Canada may have a certain goal in mind, that goal may not be shared by the other country or countries. We might find, after renegotiation, that there is less benefit to Canada than there is now. However, I am only speculating as there are no details here. We are just supposed to know what the bad deals are.

I understand why people are in favour of dropping the penalty-free amnesty deals for people suspected of tax evasion. Canadians are naturally upset when they hear someone has managed to avoid being penalized for tax evasion. It does not seem fair somehow. I suspect the hon. member who brought this motion forward had a particular highly-publicized case in mind.

The Canada Revenue Agency operates independently, free of political interference. This sounds to me like we politicians are trying to tell it how to do its job, when we may not know the details of what and why it does something.

As I understand it, the lack of prosecution in recently publicized cases was not a matter of special treatment, but standard procedure when people come forward and voluntarily disclose that they may owe money that was previously undeclared. To encourage such disclosure, the CRA waives penalties. That was not the case with CRA auditors finding wrongdoing. The money might never have been collected if the individuals had not come forward. The CRA might never have realized what it was owed. Therefore, while the idea of amnesty is offensive to hard-working Canadians who pay their taxes in full and on time, there are those who can make a credible case to defend the process. Removing voluntary disclosure, which seems to me to be what is being asked here, could conceivably lead to less tax being collected, not more.

It would be far better to call on the government to bring in a fair and reasonable tax system, but that is as likely as the Minister of Finance bringing in a balanced budget.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member was not here when we had the biggest economic leakage in Canadian history. We went from $45 billion a year to $108 billion a year, from 2011 to 2015, under the Harper government.

The member talked about winners and losers in these tax agreements. I do not need to be a tax expert to know who the winners are. The winners have been a bunch of very wealthy individuals in Canada.

The member talked about stewardship of our taxes and treating taxpayers fairly. I wonder if people at home feel that this has been fair to them, this incredible economic leakage that is taking place in our country with legal tax havens and tax agreements, where people can shift their money to another country without paying fair taxes, like every other working person here in our country.

Does the member not agree that we should close these tax havens that do not benefit us, and that any tax treaty that does not have taxes equal to Canada should be closed? We want fairness for taxpayers. This is a lot of money that could be going to supporting our children and families, a national child care plan, a pharmacare plan, protection of the environment, retooling our industries so that we can create jobs and stay competitive, and reducing taxes for small-business people who really deserve a tax break that the government promised.

Could the member talk about whether he shares my concern and agrees that we should close these tax loopholes and have fairness for working Canadians?

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, there is no one in this House who would want any money to be lost, caused by our taxation system and the way we do things.

As I said earlier, when people negotiate in business, they get what they negotiate. People do not always get what they deserve, they get what they negotiate in life. That is something we all know.

We all support keeping money and getting the best out of our dollars, and making sure taxpayers are protected. On the other hand, my problem with the motion presented is that it is really lacking concrete details. We need to speak about that and be sure that we have concrete ground to stand on in order to be able to understand it and tell Canadian taxpayers, Canadians at large, what we are saying, and be able to explain it fairly and in a good way.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier, as a government we looked at the motion that has been presented and, in principle, we support the motion. At the end of the day, we see that tax fairness is an issue. In fact, if I could, I would like to see a motion that would highlight the issue of tax fairness for all Canadians. Tax avoidance is one aspect of tax fairness.

Would the member opposite not agree that when we talk about the issue of tax fairness, tax avoidance is a very important part of it? In the last year, year and a half, we have seen a government dealing with the issue of tax avoidance. I made reference to some of the international actions we have taken, and I made reference to the issue of the $444 million that has been given to CRA to look at that particular issue and take action on those issues.

In fairness, we should also be talking about the bigger picture, being the issue of the amount of taxes that different groups are paying and how income inequality can be best addressed through the House of Commons.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, if the government is suggesting a restructuring of the taxation system in Canada, it is welcome to do that. It is in power and can probably deal with it, if it has something to come forward with.

Why is the government only agreeing with the motion in principle? I am not sure if this is a signal that government members will be coming forward and proposing amendments to the motion.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

March 7th, 2017 / 11:35 a.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my speaking time with the member for Vancouver East.

I am very proud to rise in the house today to speak in favour of the motion moved by my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie. The purpose of the motion is to fight tax evasion and tax benefits that help only the wealthiest Canadians, banks, and multinational corporations, and do nothing whatsoever to help the vulnerable and the working people who dutifully file their taxes every year, as they will have done in about a month.

If we want to provide quality services to everyone in this country without discriminating on the basis of income or class, we have to tackle tax evasion, which is costing us billions of dollars every year.

They say that the Canadian democracy we are here to defend was designed to ensure equal treatment for all citizens, but I am sorry to say that our tax system does not reflect those values of equity and equality in the least. On the contrary, inequality between the rich and the poor is growing steadily. In fact, it is growing faster here than in the United States.

Unfortunately, loopholes and tax exemptions still exist today. In fact, there have never been so many. Most working men and women cannot rely on these loopholes, tax deductions, tax exemptions or tax credits. It is very difficult for Canadians to accept that the government is not doing its part to ensure that fraudsters are prosecuted and pay their fair share of taxes like anyone else.

For example, the highest-paid CEOs in Canada earn the annual salary of an average worker in half a day. Other statistics show that Canada's highest-paid CEOs earn 193 times the average Canadian salary. It is truly insulting that nothing is being done to ensure that people pay their fair share of taxes, to redistribute the money and to realize our vision of society, which involves access for every citizen to, for instance, quality education and a quality health care system that is not two-tiered.

Canadian seniors have worked hard throughout their lives, and they must be given a decent retirement, which they don't all have. In the riding of Salaberry—Suroît, as in all other ridings, some people cannot eat fruits and vegetables every day, which is not right in a country as wealthy as Canada.

The wealthiest Canadians do not need tax exemptions to live. Unfortunately, the Liberals are maintaining tax loopholes that benefit the wealthiest, while most Canadians are left out. Alain Deneault calls it fiscal haemorrhage. He raises the fact that the corporate tax rate has gone from 38% in 1981 to 15% today. I would like to point out that citizens pay between 15% and 33% in federal tax. Many of them pay more taxes than multinationals and large companies. Mr. Deneault also criticized the fact that companies contribute very little to the financing of public services, whereas they benefit, for example, from high-performance infrastructures and a highly skilled workforce.

The privileged are benefiting from not just one advantageous tax measure. In fact, there are 64, of which five are considered progressive and 59 are considered regressive. By “regressive measures” we mean measures that benefit the wealthiest half of the country instead of the least fortunate half of the country. There are 59 tax measures benefiting the wealthiest half of Canadians. That defies reason; these measures cannot be described as fair or socially just.

In 2011, Canada's lost tax revenues were greater than $100 billion, or roughly 40% of the total federal budget.

Instead of benefiting Canadians who have a hard time making ends meet, that money is staying toasty warm in paradise in places like the Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, and several other countries that have already been mentioned. A little later I will explain the purpose of these countries, these tax loopholes, or tax havens as they are called.

The government should not gear its policy to the wealthiest 1% of society, but to all Canadians. The priority should be affordable housing, public services, and education, as I have said and as many of my colleagues have said many times in their speeches.

During the 2011 and 2015 election campaigns, the Liberals were committed to closing tax loopholes involving stock options. The CEOs of the 60 largest publicly-traded companies in Canada receive roughly 25% of their pay in stock options. Stock options are widely used because they are taxed at half the rate of regular income. As such, a 50% reduction is given to those who can afford stock options, so the CEOs, who are already the wealthiest. Initially, they were meant to benefit small and medium-sized start-up businesses, but it quickly became apparent that they were only benefitting the wealthiest.

The Liberals have clearly failed to take action on this issue. They led Canadians to believe that they would bring real change, but instead they maintained the Conservative policy, which they had previously criticized. We know that Bay Street CEOs led a campaign appealing to the current government to preserve their tax benefits. The Liberals are not doing anything to combat poverty, and instead, are working hard to protect the fortunes of the wealthy. This flip-flop is unacceptable for the workers who cannot afford to pay their taxes. Our motion calls on the government to keep its election promises and close the stock option loophole.

In addition to the tax benefits they enjoy in Canada, some wealthy people engage in tax evasion, which is illegal. The Quebec government alone estimates that tax evasion accounts for $3.9 billion in lost revenue. For 2016, the Conference Board estimates that Canada lost $47 billion in tax revenues.

To avoid paying their fair share of taxes, businesses and wealthy individuals can hide their money in tax havens, which are countries that have a low- or even no-tax policy for corporations. Canadian firms sheltered $160 billion in 2011 alone in the Cayman Islands, Barbados, and other such countries.

That has been made possible by bilateral tax agreements between Canada and 92 countries. Among these 92 countries, some, such as Barbados, have a tax rate between 0.25% and 2%, whereas in Canada companies are supposed to be taxed at 15%. These companies, which conduct absolutely no economic activities in Barbados, the Cayman Islands, or elsewhere, use these countries in order to not pay too much tax and then send their money to Canada.

We have repeatedly asked successive governments, and now the Liberal government, to take action and to review this type of bilateral agreement with countries where there are abuses and where there may be fraud and tax avoidance.

This phenomenon is becoming more prevalent. According to a study by the Institut de recherche en économie contemporaine, the amount of financial assets transferred from Canada to the seven top tax havens in the world was 37 times greater in 2014 than in 1987. The use of foreign tax havens is at an all-time high.

Canada is less engaged than the other G7 countries in the fight against tax havens. The Conservatives cut 3,000 Canada Revenue Agency employees responsible for uncovering tax evasion, and the Liberals have not replaced them. These were highly qualified auditors and managers. It has been shown that, for every dollar invested in tackling tax evasion, taxpayers get $10 in return. It is well worth our while to address this problem.

The Liberals keep saying that they have invested $444 million in the Canada Revenue Agency, but we have not seen any results. There have not been any criminal investigations. Absolutely nothing has changed. I will continue by taking questions.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, as a number of New Democrats have done this morning, the member talked about tax fairness. Members across the way need to be reminded that the last budget designated $444 million to deal with this specific issue. That money was given to the CRA to have the resources necessary to go after individuals and corporations that are avoiding paying taxes.

We also saw in that budget a 10% increase to the GIS. The member referred to seniors not being able to afford to buy vegetables or fruits, but the member voted against that increase to the GIS. The NDP voted against the special tax that was being applied to Canada's wealthiest. Those members need to reflect on their actions versus some of the words that they say.

The member made reference to a figure of $47 billion in terms of tax avoidance or loopholes. Does she have a rough idea where that $47 billion comes from which did not end up in Canada's purse?

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, the Liberals love to keep telling us that they have invested $444 million in the CRA, but we have not seen any results from that. None of the 56 investigations that were launched resulted in criminal prosecution. Not one. That money has not changed anything to date.

We know that large corporations, such as KPMG, made the headlines on the investigative news program Enquête. We asked that the Standing Committee on Finance conduct a study on KPMG, but a Liberal member prevented experts from talking about KPMG's activities. There is a double standard at play when the Liberals say they are working on combatting tax evasion.

In the United States, companies that have been found to be evading taxes have to pay penalties of 20% to 27%. In Canada, they get to sign agreements that prevent them from being penalized. There are no penalties in Canada. The federal government is not taking any action to recover that money and put a stop to tax evasion. I look forward to seeing the Liberals do something, to see them walk the talk and put practical measures in place to really fight tax evasion.

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the NDP for the motion they presented today because I believe tackling tax havens and tax evasion is important.

We also need to fight organizations like KPMG which, as a result of complacency, opportunity and greed, choose to help their clients by enabling them to bypass the tax system. Because they are fortunate and have the means, these clients can tell themselves that everything is fine; they do not need to pay taxes, let the poor take care of it.

In the past, the Bloc Québécois tabled a bill, which later became a motion, to stop tax evasion through Barbados. We were happy when the NDP supported our motion at that time. We are also pleased that the NDP is proposing that we conduct investigations and tackle this issue, but we wonder whether we should not go even further.

We think that the Canada Revenue Agency should send all information directly to Revenu Québec the moment it opens a file. Given that the Canada Revenue Agency is not doing its job, Revenu Québec could do it for them. What does the member think of that idea?

Opposition Motion—Tax FairnessBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, without a doubt the Government of Canada needs to pull up its socks. It makes no sense that the Government of Canada is ignoring scandals such as the one involving KPMG. The NDP has made several requests for KPMG to be investigated in particular. In fact, we have asked the Standing Committee on Finance to look into it. It did, but the Liberals prevented experts from testifying on KPMG. It is completely ridiculous.

We are asking the government to take concrete action. For example it should limit stock option loopholes; tackle tax havens by tightening the rules on shell companies; renegotiate tax agreements that allow companies to repatriate profits back to Canada from tax havens without having to pay any taxes; and stop giving companies or individuals suspected of tax evasion, like KPMG, a free pass.