Debates of May 1st, 2017

The House resumed from April 13 consideration of the motion, of the amendment and of the amendment to the amendment.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Waterloo.

I have had the opportunity, like many members of this House, to listen at great length in regard to what is indeed a very serious issue. We all acknowledge the importance of unfettered access to the Parliament building and the parliamentary precinct. We all understand why it is so absolutely critically important that as members, we treat the issue very seriously. I would suggest that all members of this House recognize the importance of this issue. It is one reason we believe the matter needs to be dealt with by the procedure and House affairs committee, or PROC.

We had an incident a while back when members did not have that unfettered access. It would appear that unfettered access was, in fact, denied. I want to be very sensitive to that issue. Members of the procedure and house affairs committee are genuine in wanting to have the issue dealt with. I used to sit on that committee, and I have dealt with this very issue of unfettered access. We have had reports from the procedure and house affair committee in the past regarding the importance of unfettered access. Through this debate, we have had members stand in their places and talk about what is stated on the back of their MP cards, the passionate reasons they want to represent their constituents inside this House, in particular, and why it is so critical that we have unfettered access.

Having said that, I have found that the majority of the discussion or the debate coming across from the other benches seems to have focused not necessarily on that issue as much as on the issue of what has been taking place in PROC and some of the issues related to it. I want to use the same latitude that has been given on these important issues, because the opposition has been tying it in as one and the same, which ultimately has led to the privilege issue we are debating today.

I have been a parliamentarian for well over two decades. I have had the opportunity to participate in House leadership issues virtually from the day I was elected, when then leader Sharon Carstairs appointed me, as my colleague from Winnipeg Centre would be very well aware, because we were both elected to the Manitoba Legislature at the same time, back in 1988, the official opposition party whip.

I understand the importance of the chamber and the proceedings of the chamber. I understand the importance of the opposition and the tools that are available to the opposition. I was in opposition for over 20 of those years as a parliamentarian. I understand the importance of the rules. Unlike many members, I suspect, I am actually very passionate about the rules of this House and Parliament, whether it is here in Ottawa or in Manitoba. Quite often when we talked about or made rule changes in the province of Manitoba, we would look at what was taking place in Ottawa.

I believe that the Prime Minister is genuinely trying to modernize Parliament. I really believe that. There were commitments made in the last federal election by the Prime Minister to do just that. It has been a long time, the last decade plus, since I have heard so much coming from a leader about the need to reform, and there is a need to reform. There are so many things we could be doing to improve this place.

An issue many members have chosen to talk about, and I use it as an example, is the issue of Fridays. I tell whoever wants to hear it that as an MP, and I am not unique, I work seven days a week. I suggest that this applies on both sides of the House. It is only a question of where it is I am actually working, Ottawa or Winnipeg.

Through the discussion paper, we were asking the procedures and House affairs committee to have this issue, among many other issues, discussed and to have some professionals and individuals who have first-hand experience come before the committee to express what they believe.

I will share with members my thoughts on this issue. If it means readjusting some hours to put in more hours on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, or Thursdays, I am open to that, because I see the benefit. I am not in favour of reducing the number of hours. Friday is only a half-day, after all. We started today at 11 o'clock. I am personally okay with starting a couple of hours earlier on Monday or Tuesday. I am not shy about working. I am sure all members of this House are not shy about working.

Another issue the opposition members tend to want to talk a lot about is the issue of a prime minister's question period. I sat in opposition for many years, and I may not have been in the first or second round of asking questions. I can say that if there was a prime minister's day, where the Prime Minister was answering every question that was posed, then the Prime Minister would be responding to many of the individuals who would likely not have that opportunity, for a wide variety of reasons. The idea of having only one day a week on which the Prime Minister would come in is something that is being talked about on the other side. There is not one Liberal, including the Prime Minister himself, who is saying that this would be the case.

There are many different issues that will come before this chamber over the next number of years. I would suggest that we would be doing all Canadians a service if we recognized that we must modernize our Parliament. We can do better. It saddens me that there is a feeling that there is a conspiracy taking place, when I know that it is not the case. We have a wonderful opportunity to improve this House and to ensure that members are more effective in what they do.

I would challenge all members of the House, on both sides of the chamber, to understand and appreciate the significance of modernizing Canada's Parliament. The government House leader has gone out of her way to engage with individuals, whether through PROC or in informal discussions with members. She has been open to anyone who has wanted to talk about it. She understands how important it is that we move forward on this file, as do, I believe, most members of this chamber and the cabinet. If we are successful in making these changes, it will modernize this Parliament and will be of great service to the constituents we represent.

We like to say, and as members know, I speak quite often in this House, that we believe in representing our constituents in Ottawa and that we are maximizing our time and effort and are doing good. We can do so much more if we are prepared to recognize what other legislatures across this country have done, which is modernize. Other countries in Europe have done so. We do not have to drag our feet. I have been involved first-hand in trying to change the Standing Orders in Ottawa. I sat on PROC. We can do some minor tweaking here and there with a comma or a period, but we need to modernize. My challenge to all members of this House is to let us get down to business. All Canadians will benefit if we can get this right.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are all excited to hear what the member has to say.

Will any changes be built on consensus, or will they be rammed through unilaterally by the government?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, let me share with the member some first-hand experience. When I sat down with governments in Manitoba, whether they were NDP or Conservative governments, both of which made rule changes, never did I say to my respective counterparts that if they did not give me a veto, I would not agree to any changes.

We need to recognize that there needs to be a sense of goodwill. It would be irresponsible to say that unless we have unanimous consent, we are not going to attempt to modernize Parliament. As a majority government, that would be irresponsible. Equally, it would be irresponsible for members of the House not to recognize that there is a role for all parliamentarians to play to see if we can, in a more co-operative fashion, get some rules changed. Because one party decides it does not want to see any rule changes, for whatever reasons, does not mean it should ultimately prevail. That is not in Canada's best interest.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I was not here in the last Parliament, but I understand that over the last several years, changes have been made, and I understand that the member was involved in some of those changes. Could my colleague elaborate on the procedure in the last Parliament and how those decisions were reached? My understanding is that they were consensus-based. Could he confirm or deny that?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, no significant changes based on consensus came out of PROC. There were a couple of significant changes that occurred through a Conservative member and a government member, through private members' issues, for which unanimous consent was never sought. It was a simple majority determination. They were related to the Speaker in the chamber and electronic petitions, if I recall correctly.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I have heard that claim over and over again, and it is untrue. The report that came back from PROC on e-petitions was approved unanimously. I invite the member to correct the record.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I believe that is debate, but I will let the hon. parliamentary secretary continue.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member is wrong. I was in committee when it was actually being debated. For the member to say that there was unanimous consent is just wrong. I do not know why the member would say that. I sat--

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I believe we have another point of order.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, maybe the member misheard. When the report from PROC came back to the House, it was unanimously--

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

That is a point of debate. We will let the hon. parliamentary secretary continue.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member is trying to be tricky here. The member would do better if he were straightforward. He just admitted that I was right. There was no unanimous consent. I sat in that committee as it went through committee. There was a sense of excitement during the discussion on electronic petitions, but to try to give the impression that at the very beginning there was unanimous support for it is just wrong.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to join this debate and to address some of the statements that have been made by hon. members in the days we have discussed this matter of privilege.

Let me start by saying how seriously our government takes matters of parliamentary privilege. We believe there should be no doubt about the fact that members of Parliament should have unfettered access to this chamber and to the entire parliamentary precinct.

As Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, I believe strongly in the rights of all members to be present here to represent their constituents, so anytime that a member draws to our attention an incident in which he or she was denied that privilege, we must look at it closely and look at what happened.

Canadians have sent each of us here to be their voice and to improve the way that Parliament works. It is for this reason that earlier this spring I released a discussion paper on the Standing Orders. It contains ideas on how to modernize the House of Commons to make it more effective, accountable, and transparent. The debate on this motion of privilege has from time to time veered into disagreements over this discussion paper. Some of my colleagues across the aisle have drawn certain conclusions about the purpose of the paper.

As government House leader, I had truly hoped we could start a discussion about modernization at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. This has not happened, and I regret that. It was always my intention to engage members in a respectful discussion about how we could improve this place. I accept and respect that members have heartfelt and legitimate views on the important ideas we have raised for public discussion. I also accept that our disagreements on this matter have had an impact on the work of the House in recent weeks.

It is time to get back to work, to focus on what Canadians have sent us here to do, and to chart a path forward. That is what I would like to discuss today.

In the last election, we promised real change, to give Canadians a voice in Ottawa, to make the government more accountable in Parliament, and to modernize the House of Commons. Our goal was clear: to better service Canadians, to make this place more effective and transparent, and to encourage more people, from all walks of life, to run for public office so that this House truly reflects our country.

Canadians responded by electing a Liberal government with a clear mandate to bring change to Parliament. We are committed to acting on that mandate. Yesterday, I informed my Conservative and NDP counterparts of our plan going forward. We will move ahead with the specific commitments from our election platform, all of which would make the government more accountable, not less. This includes a regular prime minister's question period, in addition to the current practice. Our Prime Minister has shown it can be done. He can and will answer many more questions in this chamber. We believe Canadians will benefit if this practice applies to future governments as well.

The second measure is to ensure that governments are forced to justify their actions if they shut down Parliament through prorogation. Governments should pay a price if they resort to legislative tricks to avoid accountability.

The third measure is to prevent the inappropriate use of omnibus bills. Parliament should have the power to properly scrutinize legislation that contains unrelated policy changes.

The fourth measure is to strengthen committees. We all know how important committees are to the work that we do here. We need to ensure they have the resources they need, and we need to change the rules so that ministers and parliamentary secretaries do not have a vote on committees.

The fifth measure is financial oversight. Governments have an obligation to ensure that MPs have consistent and clear information when they are voting on matters such as estimates.

It is time to make that happen. These are the pledges we made to Canadians in the last election. They are changes that will improve accountability in Parliament. We hope our colleagues on the opposition benches will agree. However, we will not give the Conservatives a veto on the implementation of these commitments that we have made to Canadians.

Another question that we hoped to discuss is Friday sittings. The issue revolves around whether we should continue the practice of half-day sittings here on Fridays, or to switch to a full constituency day in our own communities. If we make the change, it would be important to reallocate those hours of debate from Friday sittings to other days or weeks. We will now conduct additional consultations with our caucus on this issue of Friday sittings and reallocation of time, and we expect that our colleagues in other caucuses will want to do the same.

There were many other new ideas in the discussion paper. All of them were offered in good faith. I have now told my Conservative and NDP counterparts that our government does not intend to move forward on those ideas at the present time. We had hoped there would be a willingness to examine the concept of legislative programming to manage time for debating legislation. Unfortunately, that willingness does not exist. Therefore, it is with regret that I inform my colleagues that under these circumstances, the government will need to use time allocation more often to implement the ambitious agenda we were elected to deliver. This will be done every time with full transparency.

As we move forward, we remain committed to strengthening and modernizing Parliament. I will always welcome a dialogue among House leaders about how we can work together to make the House of Commons a place where we can better represent our constituents.

In closing, let me make one thing clear. Canadians have high expectations of all of us in this place, and so they should. They want a Parliament that holds government to account. They want a House of Commons where political discourse is respectful and debate is constructive, and they want a Parliament that is productive. It is time to get to work, so let us join together to make that happen.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, what Canadians have seen over the last year and a half is a Prime Minister they cannot trust, a Prime Minister who says one thing and does something completely opposite, a Prime Minister and a Liberal government that is arrogant and has misled Canadians on a number of occasions. The Minister of National Defence has not told the truth and has now given himself credit for something he did not do. We have a House leader who is saying that changes are going to be rammed through that will make ministers and the Prime Minister less accountable. He will only have to be here for one hour on one day a week when the House is sitting.

How can Canadians trust the Liberals and the Prime Minister on anything when they have said one thing and done something different on so many levels? Now he wants to be here on only one day a week for one hour to answer questions.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me be clear. All of the changes we are recommending will allow the government to be held to greater account, not less. When it comes the prime minister's question period, we have shown that this is possible. This one day would be in addition to the other days in a week that the Prime Minister is here. What the hon. member is saying is not true. No members in the Liberal caucus are recommending that the Prime Minister only attend on one day. We are recommending that the Prime Minister be held to greater account, so that not just the leaders of the opposition, but private members are also able to ask the Prime Minister questions and receive a response directly from the Prime Minister. We believe that this will allow the government to be held to greater account.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand that the effect of this motion that the government intends to bring regarding the vast majority of items contained in the discussion paper is that the government will, with its majority, ram those changes through against the opposition of recognized parties in this place?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when we ran in the election, we made commitments to Canadians. We made a commitment to modernize the way that this place works. We made a commitment to make government more open and transparent. We are committed to delivering on those promises. A motion will be introduced in this place and will be open to debate. As with the discussion paper, we would like to have a conversation to talk about these ideas. I will continue to encourage all members to be part of that discussion.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. government House leader for withdrawing the most offensive portions of the proposed discussion paper. That is a positive move as we go forward. However, I am concerned.

As she will know, I presented a very substantive response to her discussion paper, suggesting ways that we could reduce the greenhouse gas content. The carbon footprint of our schedule is large and is brought about because of technology. We are modernizing Parliament, but society around us is modernized. Parliament is still operating in an antiquated fashion, but we do not want to modernize in the interest of government majorities always getting their way without a real effort at consensus. We also do not want to modernize in a way that increases the number of flights and the cost to taxpayers.

Can we have any sense from the government House leader if her government, whether all of us together or the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, will have an opportunity to discuss and debate more than the suggestions that came from the government, for instance, proposals such as those from the Green Party?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by thanking the hon. member for reading my discussion paper and responding with other constructive ideas. My door will remain open, and I look forward to working with the hon. member, as well as all colleagues in this place.

We believe that we can modernize this place and bring it into the 21st century. This government takes the environment and the economy very seriously. We believe they go hand in hand. We need to make important decisions that are in the best interests of all Canadians. I will continue to engage on this important conversation.

When it comes to the commitments we have made to Canadians, we are committed to advancing those commitments and delivering on those promises. We will continue to work well with all members in this place. We know that is what Canadians expect, and so they should.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the member for Regina—Lewvan.

It is a privilege to rise today on what happens to be a question of privilege. I am a member of the House of Commons in Ottawa, and I represent the people who duly elected me in 2015, the people of Drummond. It is a privilege to speak on behalf of all of the nearly 100,000 people of the greater Drummond area. It is a privilege to rise here today, a privilege of particular importance because we are in fact debating a question of privilege.

A few weeks ago, an incident transpired on Parliament Hill that had to do with security on the Hill. We must ensure that the Prime Minister can move about safely and that dignitaries can do so as well, all under the watchful eye of the RCMP with the necessary security measures in place. However, problems arise when we are called upon to do our job, to do our duty as MPs and politicians. We come to the House of Commons to give speeches, attend question period, and present petitions on behalf of our constituents. For example, hundreds of petitions about mandatory GMO labelling have been presented. This is an issue of great concern to the people of Drummond, Quebec, and Canada.

My colleague from Sherbrooke is doing great work. He tabled a bill that should come to a vote in the next few weeks. I hope the members will support this bill. These days, people in Drummond, Quebec, and across Canada want to know what they are eating. They are in favour of mandatory GMO labelling.

It is important that I, as an MP, have access to the House of Commons to be able to table petitions regarding mandatory labelling for GMOs, for example, on behalf of Canadians. In order to do so, I must be able to move freely on the Hill.

Some of my colleagues had a bad experience recently. They had to go from one area to another to attend a vote, but unfortunately, they were prevented from doing so. They were not allowed to go through because of a security issue. Given that the Prime Minister's security motorcade was on the move, my colleagues had to wait. MPs must not be prevented from getting to the House of Commons, because that is their privilege.

When we speak of “privilege”, we are not talking about anyone being “privileged”. MPs are not privileged individuals. We are not talking about privilege in the sense of a Prime Minister who spends his vacation on a private island. That is not what this is about. When we speak of “privilege”, we are talking about a duty. MPs have a duty to represent their constituents. In order to do so, we must carry out various tasks, and this includes being present in the House of Commons to give speeches, to table petitions, to attend question period, to ensure that the government responds to questions from Canadians, and to vote. In fact, we will be holding some extremely important votes shortly.

I myself introduced a bill to require Supreme Court judges to be bilingual. For many Canadians, it is extremely important that they be able to speak the official language of their choice when they appear before the Supreme Court of Canada, the highest court before which Canadians can defend their rights. Canada has two official languages, going back to the founding of this country.

It is extremely important for Canadians to be able to use the official language of their choice when they are before the highest court in the land. That is why I introduced a private member's bill. It is my privilege and duty as a citizen and a member of Parliament to do my work on behalf of my constituents and of all Canadians, whose interests I defend, including every official language minority community across Canada.

My bill will be put to a vote in a few weeks. I hope that members of the House will vote in favour of it. It is extremely important that all Supreme Court justices understand the arguments and are able to read all the evidence and arguments submitted to them when ruling on a case before the Supreme court so that citizens are properly represented.

Let us come back to the question of privilege, which brings me back to my journey as an MP. I was first elected on May 2, 2011. Tomorrow it will be six years since I was first elected. To me, it is extremely important to acknowledge that and to thank my constituents for the confidence they have placed in me. I will continue working hard for them to protect their rights.

I remember very well that at the very beginning, in May 2011, I was new at this or, as they say, I was green, or inexperienced. I was learning all about this job. We were given a lot of training at the beginning. Among other things, we learned about our privileges as members of Parliament and, especially, what that meant in terms of our duties. As MPs, we have responsibilities. We have a responsibility to show up and vote on behalf of our constituents. We have a responsibility to speak to all sorts of issues and stand up for our constituents.

In June 2015, there was a lockout at Canada Post. People have forgotten that it was not a strike. In fact, people believed that it was a strike rather than a lockout. The NDP did everything in its power to encourage management and the union to negotiate an agreement because there is nothing worse than an imposed solution. We worked hard. We gave speeches into the early morning hours. I remember giving my speech at three o'clock in the morning because our constituents asked us to work on getting a negotiated solution.

When we speak of privilege, we are talking about the privilege of being able to stand up for our constituents and being able to share opinions that represent their interests so that we can find the kinds of solutions that the people who put us here expect. That is why, in June 2011, I had the privilege of speaking in the House at three o'clock in the morning. It was not because I am privileged that I was awake at three in the morning fighting for my constituents. I was there because it was my duty.

When it comes to this question of privilege, it is important to understand that it is the duty of MPs to come to work, to do all that is required of them, and most importantly, to vote.

We need to resolve this issue once and for all. How is it that obstruction is occurring even today, in 2017, and that a member was prevented from coming to work and doing her duty of defending and representing her constituents? Something needs to be done about that. That is why we are asking that this matter be sent to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs and that it be given priority, so that we can resolve this problem once and for all and so that all members of the House can do their duty and properly represent their constituents. I consider it an honour to do that.

I am pleased to represent my constituents.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I suspect that if we were to canvass the House right now, not one member of Parliament would question the importance of our parliamentary duties and responsibilities, as entrusted to us by our constituents, and the absolute importance to have unfettered access to the parliamentary precinct. I listened to all the things the member said. I concur that it is important we to do the jobs we have been asked to do.

We support the subamendment. We, from best I can tell, have always wanted to see this go to committee. Would the member agree that one of the best ways to get this issue dealt with, after it has been debated here, is to let PROC do its work? As a standing committee, PROC can do wonderful things. This is one of those issues which is best given to PROC to deal with. Does he, like I, have confidence in PROC's ability to come back to the House with a recommendation as to where we go from here, knowing full well we support the subamendment?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my colleague, and I have tremendous respect for the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

A few weeks ago, I was there at three in the morning. My plan was to be there until five in the morning standing up for the people of the greater Drummond area. The Liberals had moved a motion to destroy the balance in the House of Commons. The House is not just about the executive; it is about the members too, and they have a very important role to play.

That balance must be preserved so that we can come up with solutions that work for people. It was my privilege to be at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs at three in the morning with the intention of staying there until five in the morning, not because I like working nights, but because it is my civic duty to stand up for the people of Drummond and all Canadians, and that is what I will keep doing.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his intervention and his fine words about my bill, which will soon be studied and put to a vote.

I was quite surprised to hear my colleague from Winnipeg North say that he was in favour of the amendment to the amendment, after voting for the motion to adjourn the debate on it.

What does my colleague think of what happened to the first motion, which sought to refer the matter to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs and was rejected by the government before we went back to our constituencies? The Speaker felt that it was inappropriate for the government to completely shut down the debate and intervened to have the debate resumed in the House.

What does the hon. member think of the debate on the question of privilege being adjourned?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before I answer that question, I would like to congratulate the hon. member for Sherbrooke on the incredible work he does to try to make GMO labelling mandatory. He has campaigned for this cause far and wide and even came to my riding, in Drummondville, to explain the situation to everyone. A lot of progress has been made on this file and, again, I congratulate him on that.

To answer his question, indeed, the Liberal government's attempt to unilaterally change the rules of the House is incomprehensible. We are not talking about a bill to introduce a Liberal policy. We are talking about the rules governing how the House of Commons works. We should all see eye to eye on that. Any changes made to the Standing Orders over the past 100 years were made with the consensus of all hon. members, and we want the same to be true today.