Debates of May 1st, 2017

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Madam Speaker, the member mentioned changing the way things are done, keeping with tradition and operating a majority government with 39.5% of the people who elected it. However, is that not part of the tradition of the House since its inception? The party that garners the most seats are the majority government. Would the member not agree that this is the choice of the people at the ballot box in every election that has been held prior to the last one, that whatever party gets the most seats forms a majority government? Whether it was 172, 180 or 184, it is the government that is in power. We have had governments elected as the government in a minority process.

The member keeps talking about going back to election promises that get broken with regard to preferential ballot to be used in the future, yet when we try to deliver on something that we promised, opposition members are against it because it does not suit them. Would the member tell us is it just because he opposes what does not help him or hurts him and wants to leave it at that?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, I just want to correct my hon. colleague. He mentioned 39.5% of the people. I think he knows full well that is not the case. It is 39.5% of the electorate, or those who voted, so it is an even smaller number of people.

I have no issues with the fact that the current government was elected under the current rules and represents a majority government. I have no qualms with that. What I do have issue with is that the Liberals are ruling that way without taking into consideration the opposition. That is the issue at stake here.

Whether it is at the procedure and House affairs committee or in this place, the issue is one of working together on the rules. Whether it is a question of privilege or a question of operating within the House, we seek consensus. That has been the tradition. No matter whether a government has a majority or a minority, it seeks consensus within the House to move forward.

If the Liberals do not seek involvement and input from the opposition, they may find themselves back on this side. They will regret having made those changes to this place and they will operate under those rules when they get back here.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his excellent speech and his excellent interpretation of parliamentary privilege.

A member's privilege is to represent constituents and work very hard to champion their interests. I am aware of just how hard my hon. colleague works because I have replaced him on the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs while he was working through the night to defend his constituents' interests. He is doing excellent work.

That is why, as he said, it is extremely important to ensure that any proposed change to the balance of power will actually improve how Parliament works, not merely serve the Liberals' interests.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, I take very seriously our privilege. We represent those constituents from our ridings and we have a duty to represent them in the House. That is why I felt so passionate to attend the procedure and House affairs committee meetings when I heard the government was to move forward with this so-called discussion paper to make these changes.

I had mentioned earlier in a question about time allocation to simply to limit debate. For me, that is limiting the voice of my constituents, and I will fight tooth and nail to represent them every time I can in the House.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, I rise today on this important question of privilege. On March 22, two of my colleagues, the member for Milton and the member for Beauce, were blocked from accessing the House of Commons, allegedly by the Prime Minister's motorcade. As a result, they were unable to fulfill their principal role as parliamentarians, namely to represent their constituents in a vote in this place.

When the member for Milton raised this question of privilege in the House, the government made the decision to end debate and proceed immediately to orders of the day. The Speaker ruled this decision to be “unprecedented”. The Speaker of the House ruled that no other government, Liberal or otherwise, had gone so far as to end debate in this fashion on a reasonable question of privilege.

The government's action on March 22 appeared to speak volumes about its level of disrespect for members of Parliament and the work we all do in this place. I say appeared to, because one wants to get this to the procedure and House affairs committee for the thorough review it merits in light of this unprecedented action.

Canadians need to know just what happened, how it happened, and how it can never happen again, because this goes to the heart of what we are doing in this place: representing our constituents as best we can. If we cannot get here, allegedly because the Prime Minister's motorcade blocks us from doing that work, I think every Canadian who may be watching this debate will understand why this is so vital.

Parliamentary privilege allows MPs to fulfill their most important role: representing their constituents by voting on business in this place. By shutting down debate the way it did, the government acted with blatant disregard for the way some members were treated in that they were prevented from doing the very thing that each of us in this place is elected to do.

The government's power to move to silence the members for Milton and Beauce demonstrates that to the government, apparently, MPs' privileges and the ability to do their job is less important than government business. I was struck by the government House leader's use of the word “efficiency” and words like “modernization” in describing what they are trying to do, euphemistically, in this fashion to change the very rules under which we operate in this place.

The underlying factor is the precedent these government actions set, whether it is refusing to allow a debate on a question of privilege or unilaterally pushing through changes to the Standing Orders, thereby changing the very process for establishing these rules. We have heard a number of times already how outrageous it is. There is a long-standing convention and tradition of securing party approval from opposition members of recognized parties before proceeding to overhaul the standing rules.

It is unusual, to use a neutral word. Many of us have spoken about how the government had the opportunity to do what Prime Minister Chrétien did when he was prime minister, and that is to allow a committee, chaired by you, Madam Speaker, or someone like you, and representatives of the recognized parties to roll up their sleeves and modernize, to use the House leader's favourite word, the way in which we do business in this place. I was so hopeful that this is what would have happened.

Today I had the opportunity to ask the government House leader a very specific question, which she answered, I think. I asked if she was going to proceed with ramming the cherry-picked parts of her so-called discussion paper through in a motion later this year over the opposition of all opposition members. I believe she said yes. I may be wrong. That is certainly how I heard her answer. In other words, it would break the tradition that goes back to 1867. Here we are celebrating 150 years of Confederation, and the government proposes to make sweeping changes to the way democracy works. Why? It is because the Liberals ran on that, as if that somehow gives them the right, in a fused parliamentary system like ours, to do that.

I was taken by the eloquence of the speech this morning by my friend the member for Burnaby South, who reminded this House about how Charles I lost his head, literally, when the executive tried to make such changes to the parliamentary process. The Liberals seem to forget that although they had all of 39.5% of Canadian voters support them, they do not have powers that are dictatorial in nature. We have traditions to preserve in this place, and I know I speak for opposition members on this side of the House, both Conservative and NDP, when I say that we will not allow those traditions to be broken so easily.

It is quite shocking that the government said it is not going to let the opposition block it from doing what it ran on. We know how sacred the Liberal promises are. I do not know how many times the Prime Minister came to my riding and said that this would be the last election fought on the basis of first past the post. I have lost count of how many times that promise was made. I guess that was a different kind of promise. The Liberals said in the election, and it is right on the Liberal platform page, that they would restore home mail delivery. I guess that was another promise of a different kind than this promise that has to be kept.

The point is that this is not just another promise of that sort. If the government wants to spend money differently in a budget, it is the absolute right of the government to bring a budget bill and use its majority to change things. The point Canadians need to understand is that we do not change the rules of this place because the government claims it ran on that. That is not sufficient. Changing the rules of the House of Commons is not the same thing. The Liberals are but one party, literally, in this place, and that seems to have escaped them.

Canadians should understand how outrageous it would be if the government decided to say in a campaign that it was going to change the way our courts work. After all, that is another part of our democracy and the institutions that make Canada what it is. People would say that of course it cannot do that, because that is another institution it does not have the unilateral right to change. Similarly, it does not have the unilateral right to make sweeping changes, as it purports to do here. I am sure that we on the opposition will continue to remind Canadians of what it is purporting to do.

The Liberals have talked about their so-called modernization in what they initially termed a discussion paper, which is kind of soft and cuddly. They said, “We are going to discuss this with Canadians and have a little chat about how we change the rules.” That changed pretty quickly over the weekend when, late last night, the government House leader called to say, “By the way, you know that discussion we were going to have? Actually, what we are going to do is ram through changes to the rules. We are going to choose a few that are maybe easier to ram through than others, but we are just going to go ahead, bring a motion in, and ram it through using our majority. Have a good day.” That is not going to work for Canadians as they begin to understand the enormous arrogance that statement reflects.

As a matter of fact, one of the things the Liberals would do is take away the tool of filibustering, a tool that, admittedly, should be used very rarely and is used very rarely, but an essential tool nonetheless for parliamentarians in this place. They think that can and should be done. They are also apparently going to use closure. I did not say time allocation, because I believe that under the rules, and members can confirm this, time allocation can be used on bills, but when they wish to limit debate on motions on privilege matters, that is done through closure. I presume that when they face this opposition united against them, they will choose to use closure to ram through their changes.

So much for a warm, friendly, accountable, and transparent government. We look forward to that with interest, when it chooses to do that, this overwhelmingly top-down, Prime Minister-controlled government.

To add irony to irony, the government has said that one of the things it wants to do is change omnibus bills. Let me stop here and say that sometime this week, we are about to begin debate on an omnibus bill the government is introducing, a budget bill. Why is it an omnibus bill? The government is saying that it is going to change it under these modernization processes.

It is an omnibus bill for a couple of reasons. The Judges Act would be amended. The veterans legislation would be changed. By the way, the artificial intelligence bill, which the Liberals introduced, and the veterans bill are both now part of this omnibus bill. Is that not by definition what we do when we add a bunch of things together? It is an omnibus bill, something the Liberals quite properly complained about under Mr. Harper.

It is time for Canadians to recognize what is going on. This opposition is united in fighting against these changes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, it is a type of issue on which at times we are going to agree to disagree. I believe that the motivation of this government, which is trying to advance modernizing Parliament, is ultimately for the good. I have been in opposition for over 20 years. I understand the discussion paper and what is being talked about. I am disappointed that the combined opposition has decided to make it as political as it has in regard to this issue. I do not say that lightly.

When I sat on PROC, I dealt with the Canada Elections Act, which the member would be very familiar with, and the process that led to the changing of the electoral laws. Maybe we can draw comparisons between what was done then in terms of bringing forward legislation and working with others in trying to look at modernizing Parliament. What is becoming clearer is that the opposition members, collectively, and they are united on this issue, do not want to see that modernization take place.

Does the member not believe that there are rules that would make this a better place? If he does, can he please tell this House what they are?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, for my hon. colleague across the way to suggest somehow that we are the ones making political this debate is really quite disturbing. It is the government's choice to bring in these unilateral changes and to force them through this place. We are simply responding to that reality. Do I think the rules of this place need to be modernized? Yes. Did I propose a way to the government to do that, along with my Conservative colleagues? Yes, and that was the way former Liberal governments under Mr. Chrétien did it.

I would love to speak about omnibus and prorogation, because the Liberals do not do anything but normalize those processes. They do not make them better. They just make them, to use the words of the government House leader, more efficient.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Madam Speaker, I was elected for the first time this past election. The issue before us today matters to me because I think it is important for me to have the means to carry out my duties and responsibilities.

Through you, Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Victoria because every time I listen to him, I gain a deeper understanding of our institution.

When the people of Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, the riding I represent, ask me questions or share their comments with me, I often tell them that I am not here to represent only the people who voted for me. I am here to represent all of the people of Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.

When the government says it is here to do the things that people voted for it to do, does that mean the government is here for 39.5% of the voters? Does that mean the government is not here for all Canadians?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, I had the pleasure of working closely with my colleague and friend from Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot on the medical aid in dying bill, and I know her to be a thoughtful colleague and very sincere with her questions in this place.

We are here to represent all those people who voted for us, irrespective of that voting record. We are here to represent everyone in our riding, and I believe every member of this House understands and does just that. However, the changes that would be made by one party, albeit the government, to the rules under which we all work for Canadians, need to be understood by all those voters as being unprecedented. Yes, there have been the odd times when changes have been made, as in the election of the Speaker, without this support, but for sweeping changes of this kind, the member's constituents and mine understand this to be what it is, a power grab by the Liberals.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, Ethics; the hon. member for Edmonton Riverbend, Employment; the hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Speaker, I consider it a privilege to be standing in the House today to speak to this question of privilege that has been going on in this House for quite some time.

My comments will be somewhat technical later on, but first I will reflect on my 11-plus years here in this chamber as a member of Parliament and some of the things that I have witnessed, some of the things that I have observed, and some of my thoughts and expressions that I have on behalf of my constituents.

First, let me just say that we are very privileged to live in this country where we have inherited the Westminster parliamentary system from the United Kingdom. The history is rich and it is deep. The traditions that we have today have stood the test of time. It is no wonder that Canada is one of the most respected countries in the world. I know of nobody who legitimately flees Canada from persecution or other types of problems or political strife. People are free to come and go as they choose. If they choose to leave Canada, it is on their own accord, not because Canada has become intolerable toward them, that is, of course, if they follow the rule of law.

People from all over the world flock to Canada. They migrate here. People have fled Communist countries. They have fled persecution. They have fled poor economic conditions. Whatever the motivation might have been, they have come here seeking hope and opportunity for a better future. My wife is actually one of those people who have come here from another country, to get away from the persecution of the Soviet Communist regime.

Why do I say this? We have a great system. We have a great Parliament. We have rules of law. We have procedures. We have privileges as members of Parliament. When we stand to speak as members of Parliament, at least for myself, when I am defending my privileges, I am not defending me. It matters little that I, as an individual, occupy the office of member of Parliament. What matters is the office of member of Parliament is given the due respect that it represents. In my case, what does it represent? If my privileges are in any way hampered, denied, shunned, or taken away, they are not doing that to me. They are doing it to the 115,000 Albertans who I am privileged to represent. Every single member of Parliament in this House can lay the same claim, and rightfully so.

In that context, all of my comments will be made that way. I am not talking about me. It is not about me. It is about the role that I have, the role that I have been entrusted with, and the people who have entrusted me with it.

I have a couple of observations. In the number of years that I have been here, I have seen numerous cases where members of Parliament have got up on questions of privilege about being denied access to this place. Access to the House of Commons is a right and a privilege that is protected. As members of Parliament, we have unfettered access to the parliamentary precinct. This is something that we must preserve and protect. This is actually the matter before the House today.

I have personally been fettered or have been stopped or delayed in my access to the Hill. I have never made a complaint about it, and I have never launched a complaint about it. I have been stopped by RCMP officers who I know were diligently trying to do their job on the Hill on days when the lawn was busy and I needed to get across Wellington Street to get to a committee meeting. An RCMP officer actually put his hands on me. I simply said, “I'm a member of Parliament. I have unfettered access here. I need to get to my meeting”, and the RCMP officer let me go. That is fine. That is the way it should be. It is not about me. It is about the fact that I needed to do my job on behalf of the 115,000 people I represent. That was okay. I do not mind explaining myself from time to time.

When I was first elected here back in January 2006, I had never been to Ottawa before. I am a country bumpkin from Lacombe. I just fell off the turnip truck and ended up here in Ottawa. One of the things they asked for in the package I received after I had won the election was a photo of me. I could not imagine why they wanted a photo. I assumed it was to put on a piece of identification, whatever the case might be.

My office was in the Justice Building, where it stays to this day. I remember walking into the Justice Building where House of Commons security guards at the time, wearing blue shirts and shoulder flashes, said hello and identified me by name. How did they know my name? They knew it because they made the effort to know who I was, not because I am important, but because of the role that I play as a member of Parliament. The office that I hold as a member of Parliament is important. They need to know who I am so that I can access all of the buildings and all of the venues that I need to access as part of my role as a member of Parliament.

I have also been gifted with a pin, which all of us in the House wear. Members of the Senate wear the same thing. I do not know if RCMP officers doing security on the Hill understand what this pin means when they see it. House of Commons security officials and Senate officials know what it means. If I am not wearing my pin and in spite of the fact that I have been here for 11 years, if I go through a Senate door half the time I get stopped. Now we have a combined service of House of Commons and Senate security.

I am not casting aspersions at all, but I do not think security guards from the House of Commons normally would know all of the senators and I do not know if security guards on the Senate side would necessarily know all members of Parliament. I would argue that they should, and not because they should know who I am, but they should know who every member of Parliament and every senator is so they can be protected as they go about doing their duties. Members also need to be assured that they can get to where they need to go, whether it is for a vote in the House or a vote in the Senate, or whether it is a committee meeting or otherwise. There should be no jurisdictional squabbling or jurisdictional what I would call arrogance between the two chambers when it comes to allowing access to members of the House of Commons or members of the Senate who have a duty to perform. This has frustrated me from time to time. I hope that something like this will get corrected over time as these two security agencies come together under one umbrella.

These are the privileges that we have. We have the right to unfettered access. We have to get here to vote, which is the most important thing that I can do on behalf of my constituents. My words may sometimes not matter, but my actions do. Voting is the most important action I have as a member of Parliament and to be denied the ability to get here in a timely fashion to vote is untenable.

Let us go back and take a look at what the mitigating factors may have been that precluded my colleagues, who others have named in this debate, from getting to the chamber on time. My understanding is that it was the Prime Minister's motorcade, so let us examine that.

In the almost 10 years that I was a member of Parliament on the governing side of the House while the Right Hon. Stephen Harper was the Prime Minister of Canada, I do not recall ever seeing the prime minister's motorcade at the front door, other than once after one of the late-night votes. It was probably after midnight. I do not remember the prime minister's motorcade picking up the prime minister at the front door. Under Stephen Harper, the prime minister's motorcade was always at the back where it would not obstruct anyone or anything and would be out of sight from anybody else. It was out of the way. This was the modest way in which Stephen Harper went about his business. He did not need to make a show or production by walking out the front door of Centre Block so that everybody could see him.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

He didn't need a red carpet.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

He did not need any of those things, Madam Speaker. He did not need a red carpet, as my colleague from Foothills just pointed out. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that he did not want it even when he needed it. That is a different approach.

I would argue that the Prime Minister's motorcade does not need to be out front where after a vote, 337 other members of Parliament and ministers need to get on buses or scurry across the road to get to their next meeting or their next appointment. If I asked the question in the chamber today of the members who are currently present how many are double-booked at least once or twice a day in places they need to be, if they were honest with each other, most of them would raise their hands.

I am supposed to be at an event right now, but I am also on House duty and I have this speech. I am triple-booked. That is not an uncommon situation for members of Parliament to find themselves in. Therefore, why do we not ask ourselves why the Prime Minister's car needs to be in front and why it cannot go out the back, just like the previous prime minister did? Would that have resolved the problem? I do not know. Maybe it is a logistical issue. I do not know what I do not know because there is construction going on now at both ends of the building. There was construction as well on the east side of the building when Prime Minister Harper got his car ride home. Is that one of the solutions that we have? Maybe changing the way one or two people do their business around here might make it easier for others to do the same.

Much has been said about the privileges that are under discussion right now at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs and have spilled over into this debate. Members of Parliament, according to House of Commons Procedure and Practice, have the privilege of freedom of speech in this place. We must be vigilant and we must protect that. We must be able to say what has to be said when it needs to be said and we should not be denied access to this place to say it. We should not be under threat of intimidation, coercion, or any other type of threat inside this House or out for things that we say in this chamber. When we take away that freedom of speech and opportunities for members of Parliament to speak freely, we are doing a great disservice to our Parliament, to the foundation of our democracy.

I will go back to my opening comments when I talked about how valued Canadian ideals are around the world that people flock here from every corner of the earth. Any member of Parliament who has ever been to a citizenship ceremony will see that 50 people who are sworn in are from 48 different countries usually. That is the way it works here in Canada, and that is a great thing.

We have the privilege of free speech, but we do not have the privilege of free speech if we cannot get here, if we are stopped, if we are prevented, if we are detained in any way, shape, or form. I am not saying that gives members of Parliament the absolute right to do whatever they want whenever they want to get here, but every reasonable effort should be made to allow members of Parliament to get to the House of Commons to do their business.

Members of Parliament have freedom from arrest in civil actions. This is critical. We cannot do our jobs and be free from intimidation if we are constantly under arrest or being hassled through civil action. That does not mean we cannot be sued, if that is what is required if something wrong has happened, but we cannot be arrested in civil actions. Just imagine if launching a frivolous or vexatious civil action, which may result in the arrest of a member of Parliament, was all one had to do to keep a member of Parliament from getting to a vote.

Imagine a scenario in a minority Parliament where a couple of votes might be the difference between a government falling and an election being called or a government continuing, which is why there are the same provisions in the Criminal Code about vote buying and bribery. They are very important things. These are the freedoms that we have, not because the 338 of us who happen to be here right now are any more special than the other 35 million Canadians in this country, but the integrity of the office of a member of Parliament is what is at stake.

The exemption from jury duty makes sense. We should not be part of the judiciary, but we are part of the legislative process. An exemption from being subpoenaed to attend court as a witness is another way somebody, frivolously or vexatiously, could have his or her time usurped by others, preventing or keeping a member of Parliament from doing his or her duties in the House of Commons.

The most important one, the one that is under discussion today, is the freedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation, and molestation. I am going to read this into the record right from our own website. It states:

Members of Parliament, by the nature of their office and the variety of work they are called upon to perform, come into contact with a wide range of individuals and groups. Members can, therefore, be subject to all manner of influences....

Further on it states:

Members are entitled to go about their parliamentary business undisturbed. The assaulting, menacing, or insulting of any Member on the floor of the House or while he is coming or going to or from the House—

That is the important part:

—or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament, is a violation of the rights of Parliament. Any form of intimidation...of a person for or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament could amount to contempt.

It goes on to talk about certain matters such as bribery, the acceptance of fees and corrupt electoral practices that are dealt with in other places in law and rightfully so. However, over the years, members have regularly brought to the attention of the House instances which they believe were attempts to obstruct, impede, interfere, intimidate, or molest them, their staffs or individuals who had some business with them or the House.

In a technical sense, such actions are considered to be contempt of the House and not breaches of privilege. Since these matters relate so closely to the right of the House to the services of its members, they are often considered to be breaches of privilege.

Speakers have consistently upheld the right of the House to the services of its members free from intimidation, obstruction, and interference. Speaker Lamoureux stated in a 1973 ruling that he had no hesitation in reaffirming the principle that parliamentary privilege included the rights of a member to discharge his or her responsibilities as a member of the House free from threats or attempts of intimidation.

As Speaker Bosley noted in 1986:

If an Hon. Member is impeded or obstructed in the performance of his or her parliamentary duties through threats, intimidation, bribery attempts or other improper behaviour, such a case would fall within the limits of parliamentary privilege. Should an Hon. Member be able to say that something has happened which prevented him or her from performing functions, that he or she has been threatened, intimidated, or in any way unduly influenced, there would be a case for the Chair to consider.

We have had rulings and these rulings have been consistently applied in the ruling we had today, which is why we have this debate.

In the ruling of another question of privilege, Speaker Bosley stated further that the threat or attempt at intimidation could not be “hypothetical”, but must be real or have occurred.

That is what we have in this case. It occurred. Two members of Parliament were detained in their opinion and in the opinion of the ruling of the Speaker of the House unreasonably detained. What are the consequences of that going to be outside of this debate?

In order to find a prima facie breach of privilege, the Speaker must be satisfied that there is evidence to support the member's claim that he or she has been impeded in the performance of his or her parliamentary functions and that the matter is directly related to a proceeding of Parliament, in this case the most important one, a vote, the opportunity for our actions to match our words and for us to cast a ballot or stand in our place and be counted yea or nay on behalf of the people who sent us here.

In some cases where a prima facie privilege has not been found, the rulings have focused on whether the parliamentary functions of the member were directly involved. While frequently noting that members raising such matters have legitimate grievances, Speakers have consistently concluded that members have not been prevented from carrying out their parliamentary duties from time to time.

These matters as we have laid out in our history, whether it is in O'Brien and Bosc now or in previous rulings by the Speaker, we have enough cases before us that Speakers can properly rule about these issues. It is very important. As members of Parliament, we have to protect and safeguard our rights and privileges. Thankfully we have had Speakers in the past who have helped in that, as in the examples I have just outlined, but we have to also remain vigilant for other assaults on our privileges.

In the last three Parliaments before this one, I do not ever recall an instance, let alone two separate instances, where there has been such disruption of the House of Commons and of committees based on proposed changes to the privileges that we as members of Parliament have. I will go back to Motion No. 6, around a year ago, when it was before this place. It would have taken away virtually every tool opposition members of Parliament would have had and every privilege that had been extended to them in our adversarial system of Parliament, which has been handed to us in the Westminster system. It is the foundation of our House. The Liberals wanted to change it unilaterally, taking away those privileges. We see it again now. It is the approach of a unilateral decision to make numerous changes to how this place works without consulting members of Parliament.

I would urge all my colleagues who are here today, on whatever side of the House they happen to be, to safeguard their rights and privileges, because every inch of ground they give up, they will never get back.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I assure the member across the way, when it comes to the Standing Orders and changing them, I take the matter in the utmost seriousness. I also respect the fact that the Prime Minister of Canada is trying in the best way possible to modernize Canadian Parliament. That is something I believe a majority of Canadians would want to see take place.

I appreciate the fact that the hon. member spent 95% of his time related to the privilege and my question will be on that.

We should commend and compliment the incredible efforts that our current security people put in place. Whether it is our security forces in the gallery, at our doors, outside, or in the parliamentary precinct in general, they do an outstanding job. We try to assist them by wearing pins and, if possible, to provide an I.D. It is not as easy as one thinks to memorize 338 faces with names and in different seasons, where toques are worn at one time, then baseball caps, no hats and so forth. They should be commended for the phenomenal job they do in protecting this parliamentary precinct.

Given the context and everything he has said, given that we have agreed from the beginning that this should be going to PROC and given that we support the subamendment, why would we not have PROC do what it has done in the past? When I was on PROC, a question of privilege would come up, a debate occurred and then it went to PROC. PROC deliberated and came back with recommendations. Why would we not do the same thing here?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

As I said, Madam Speaker, I understand my hon. colleague's question, but it is the approach. Had the Liberals actually approached members of the New Democratic Party, the Conservative Party and the other parties in the House of Commons and said that they would like to engage us in a conversation about how we were going to change any of our Standing Orders, about how we were going to address any of the issues that I brought up in my speech, I would guess that conversation would have been met with a little less resistence than having a paper dropped under the threat or duress of getting the changes rammed through in a timely fashion.

I understand the Liberals have egg on their faces because they were unable to keep their electoral reform commitments. As my colleague from Peace River—Westlock pointed out in his speech, and I was giggling as I used to read Calvin and Hobbes all the time, changing the rules as we go along to make them suit our needs is no different than the cash for access fundraising rules that we are about to see now. The Liberals are changing the rules as they go along, not changing the behaviour to come into compliance with the rules, to make them suit their needs.

That the approach is all wrong and that is why the hon. member and his party are struggling to get anything done in this Parliament.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Speaker, my colleague really did stick to the issue of privilege we are debating today, but there is a link between the privilege debate and perhaps why the government did not want to move that to committee. I wonder if he could articulate for those who might be confused, because it truly is a bit of inside baseball, that this is a creation of the current government, the issue we are having right now, and why we are still debating this as opposed to more important issues.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Speaker, I wish we were discussing matters that would have a broader effect on the constituents I represent. However, my privileges as a member of Parliament on their behalf are being hindered. My right as a member of Parliament serving in Her Majesty's loyal opposition is being hindered or altered without any input from me at all.

I have not been asked once by any member of the government or any member of Parliament from the governing party. I have not been approached in the hallway, in the committee room, or anywhere by any member of Parliament from the Liberal Party of Canada asking me what it would take for me and my party to come around to some sort of agreement. Not once has that conversation ever happened.

What is at stake here is not just the question of privilege being debated today, but all the rights and privileges we have as members of Parliament. That extends well beyond the basic privileges of voting and being able to speak in the House. It is ensuring that we have the right checks and balances in place to ensure our democracy is sound and stable, and we have the best foundation. I tried to make this point in my speech. The foundation of our country is our democracy, and this is the basement. It is the foundation upon which the rest of our country sits.

We are discussing whether members of Parliament can actually get to the chamber on time for a vote. We are discussing whether an approach by the government of the day is that the government can come in and change the rules of the House of Commons to suit its needs. The Liberals might argue that is not what they are trying to do, but that sure is what it looks like to me because I have not been asked once, and I do have friends on the other side of the House. There are some good people. They talked to me, but they never brought this issue up once with me. I have to ask myself why.

When I trace all the lines back, this is simply a decree coming through the government House leader from the Prime Minister's Office. There are three or four people making the decision on how Parliament should work, and my guess is maybe one of them actually has a seat in this chamber.

If the member across the way who asked the question and my colleague from this side of the House wonders why people have their backs up, why there is a filibuster in the procedure and House affairs committee, why there is a filibuster going on right now as we discuss this question of privilege in the House of Commons, well, if one does things wrong, one is going to get the wrong reaction, and a different approach can be taken. It was supposed to be sunny ways. It does not feel sunny today at all.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, to address the issue of why the member perhaps feels a bit on the outside looking in on this whole idea of changes to the Standing Order, whether it is the government House leader or myself, on numerous occasions we have welcomed and encouraged members across the way to get engaged in the discussion. We spent an entire day last fall talking purely about the Standing Orders. PROC has dealt with a preliminary report, and then we had a discussion paper provided to PROC. A tremendous amount of dialogue has taken place.

It is up to the member, if he so chooses, to get into the discussion. If he chooses not to take me up on my invitation to meet with me, or the government House leader or others, that is up to the member across the way to make that determination. However, he should not try to give the impression that the government has not been doing its job in consulting and working as much as possible, where there is co-operation, in trying to modernize our Parliament, or at least to have that discussion about the rules. We have talked about it a lot.

The member said at the beginning of his speech that he had been here for 11 years. Compare what I just explained when Stephen Harper changed the election laws, another part of Canada's foundation. Why does he not draw the comparison? He should tell us exactly how Stephen Harper changed the election laws.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Speaker, the only thing I really recall being changed in the elections law was that people had to prove who they were before they could vote. I do not think that is a real mind-boggling concept for most people in Canada to understand. One should actually be a Canadian citizen, over 18 years old, and able to prove it to a returning officer. What a terrible concept.

Let us just change the rules of the House of Commons, making sure the prime minister is only accountable one particular day a week. Let us change the rules so the Liberals send the image to all Canadians that a four-day workweek is all we need. Let us just put that out there in a paper to the procedure and House affairs committee with the Liberal majority and ram it through. Let us change democracy and look victorious in the eyes of the glorious electorate that voted for the Liberal Party. There is so much resentment right now from the people who voted for this government, not only in Alberta but across the country, because the approach is 100% wrong. The priorities are often misguided and whenever the Liberals have a chance to make a good decision or a bad decision, the bad decision seems to win the day.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise and speak about a question of privilege. It is unfortunate that we have to go through this process. However, we did have a motion brought forward by my colleague, the member for Perth—Wellington, regarding the free movement of members of Parliament in the parliamentary precinct.

I am sure that all members of this House understand what kind of honour it is to be here, to be a member of Parliament, and to be elected by the hard-working constituents we all represent in our respective ridings. This is something I think about often. I had the opportunity over the Easter break to be home in my constituency office, meeting with my friends and neighbours. I certainly never dreamed about being in politics. I never aspired to be a member of Parliament.

It was because of the incredible support and confidence shown by the residents of Foothills, my friends and family who supported me, those who have encouraged me, and those who have inspired me to do my work in this place each and every day. I understand what kind of a profound honour it is to represent the constituents of southwest Alberta and to have the confidence of constituents.

What being an MP means to me is that I show up for work every day. I work hard and I stand up for the interests of my constituents and my province. I always remember when I am here that it is the people of Foothills who sent me here, and it is the people of Foothills who will give me that chance once again in 2019.

My constituents of Foothills are smart, full of integrity, driven, principled, entrepreneurial, and hard-working. I am challenged each and every day by my constituents, their work ethic, and their deep love for our riding and our province. I am sent here by them to work hard for them.

As I said, it is an honour to be here, but with that honour comes responsibility, a responsibility to represent those people who sent me here, whose time, energy, support, and exercising of their democratic right have allowed me to take a seat in this hallowed building. When I am here, in a seat in the House of Commons, I speak with their voice, the voice of Albertans: farmers, ranchers, small business owners, and families.

I cannot imagine the betrayal they would feel if I were blocked from having their voices heard, if I were blocked from having my right to represent them in this House.

Today I speak for those people whose voices were not heard when their members were denied the right to vote by being denied access to this precinct, by being denied their democratic right to vote on budget day. It was not my vote which was not counted. It was not my constituents who were not represented that day. However, I feel it is vitally important that, as members of Parliament we ensure that all Canadians are represented in this House. No member should be denied the ability to represent their electorate during a vote.

There is no greater privilege as a member of this House, and no greater duty and responsibility, than the duty and obligation to be in this House to cast a ballot on behalf of our constituents.

Our parliamentary privilege is our very ability as members to represent our constituents in this place. It is the essence of why we are here. Being denied that privilege is a blow to the keystone of our democracy, which is representing our constituents.

As my colleague from Chilliwack—Hope said a couple of weeks ago when he spoke on this issue, when the rights of one member are violated, the rights of all of us are violated. The Speaker ruled that there was indeed an unacceptable delay on the buses due to motorcades, security, and due to a media bus.

However, that provided little consolation to the two members who were forced to miss the vote on budget day. For nine minutes, members were held up by security and were unable to proceed here to fulfill their duty and privilege as parliamentarians to stand up on behalf of their constituents.

I have been a little appalled to hear some of the members of the government try to place the blame on the members of Beauce and of Milton for having their privileges violated. This is absolutely unacceptable. I am sure that if the tables were turned, if this were a member of the Liberal Party who was denied their right to vote on budget day, their reaction to this issue would be quite different. In fact, I am disappointed that the members opposite are not sharing our view on this issue.

I would have hoped that they would have the same reasons we have for being upset. I would have hoped that they would see that the rights of their colleagues are being denied and they would join us and stand up to vehemently protect the rights of a fellow member of Parliament. The fact is that our colleagues were prevented from doing their duty as elected members of this place who are entrusted to do so on behalf of their constituents. All of us have that duty to the constituents we are honoured and privileged to represent. This motion on a question of privilege calls for this matter to be studied by the procedure and House affairs committee. A further amendment to the motion says that this should take priority over all matters currently before the committee, which is where MPs from all recognized parties discuss these rules, violations of these rules, and the rights of members of Parliament.

There are precedents for this to occur. There have been examples in the past. For example, in 2014, former MP Yvon Godin was denied access to the House of Commons. After bringing the issue before the House, the Speaker found that indeed there was a prima facie case. As a result, it went to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, and proper measures were put in place so that security realized the importance of members making it to their seats. However, in this case, the government prevented this from going to the procedures and House affairs committee. It prevented us from having a vote to ensure that this went to committee.

It would seem almost unbelievable, but the fact is that the Liberals are taking away the rights and privileges of fellow members of Parliament. They are fighting against the rights of my colleagues from Milton and Beauce to be heard at the committee. They are denying us the right to vote to send this to committee and to make it a priority at committee. In my opinion, in doing so, they are clearly showing that they are not taking this matter seriously. In denying the rights of all members of Parliament to represent our constituents, the Liberals are demonstrating that these rights are not worth fighting for.

Why would the Liberal government turn its back on its colleagues? Do they Liberals think so little of the rights and privileges of members of Parliament? Unfortunately, the answer is yes. The Prime Minister thinks so little of the rights and privileges of members of Parliament that not only is he denying the rights of the members for Beauce and Milton, but he is aggressively trying to quash the rights of all members of Parliament and opposition members. In fact, the reason that the Liberals do not want this issue to go to the procedure and House affairs committee is because right now the committee has been taken up by a government trying to push through changes to the Standing Orders which would rob the opposition of the tools we need to do our jobs. Why would the Prime Minister concern himself with the privileges of just a couple of opposition MPs when he can ram through changes to the Standing Orders that would remove the privileges of all opposition members of Parliament? It is a sad statement when in Canada we have a Prime Minister who has such little respect for the rights of his colleagues and of all Canadians who have sent them here.

The Liberals have recently brought forward a discussion paper to modernize the House of Commons, and apparently forcing through ideas on the entire House and its members is what we now call a discussion. With the changes that the original paper proposed, the Liberals wanted to take away our right to debate at committee; they want to cut off debate in the House of Commons pre-emptively. They want to invoke time allocation, which means that they would cut off debate even before it starts. If I remember correctly, when we were in government and I was on the majority side, as Mr. Harper used to like to say, the same Liberals decried and condemned time allocation, citing how undemocratic and evil it was. Now the government House leader has said that because the opposition has been slowing government business, it is necessary for them to invoke time allocation.

I am sure that I heard in the 2015 election campaign that the Liberals were going to do things differently. There was going to be a new sunny, fresh way to approach government. Thus far, the Liberal government has been anything but, from the heart out. I can see, looking across over the last several weeks and months, that even some of the Liberal backbenchers are disillusioned by what they have seen from their Liberal government. This is a top-down, heavy-handed government, and this is not what those members expected.

I am sure that is why you have lost three opposition bills. Is that not right?

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind the member to address the Chair and not other members in the House.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Madam Speaker, when they were elected in 2015, they were expecting this utopian approach to government. They would not heckle. They would sit there quietly and listen to our great debates. Obviously, that has long been forgotten.

I think that a lot of these members, the Liberal members, the backbenchers, were not anticipating having their own voices silenced, their own opinions disregarded, their votes whipped, and their rights repressed. Welcome to the Liberal style of government. Welcome to real change.

Now that they are in power, they want to strip the opposition of any ability we have to hold the government to account. They are still considering the shutdown of Parliament on Fridays and allowing the Prime Minister to be accountable to this place for just 45 minutes a week.

They can try to put whatever kind of spin they want on this. However, I was home in Alberta for two weeks and met with representatives from various energy companies, the agriculture sector, and we have more than 100,000 Albertans out of work. Many of them have been out of work for 18 months or longer, and I am going home and telling them that we are going to work a four-day week. The government should be burning the midnight oil trying to find a resolution to what has been hurting our energy sector in Alberta and across Canada.

However, instead of doing that, instead of working as hard as they possibly can, seven days a week, to try to help those who are out of work, on Thursday afternoons, they want to call it a week and go home to their ridings.

When I ran for election in 2014, I did a bit of homework. I know, like any other job, that a member of Parliament works five days a week. I know many of us in this House, and I am not saying everybody, understand that there is no such thing as a five-day workweek. Many of us work seven days a week. I take Sundays off for family. I try my very best to keep Sundays free. That does not always happen, but we do our best.

I also knew that the House of Commons was in Ottawa and that I was going to have to be here maybe 150 days of the year. I heard earlier today from one of my colleagues across the way that it would be great on that extra day to be home and in their consistency when their residents want them there. I have 220 other days of the year that I am in my constituency working hard to represent them, but for the other 140 days, they expect me to be here in Ottawa, working hard to represent them—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. I want to remind members that there is one person who has the floor. If they would like to have other conversations, then I would ask them to take it out of the House of Commons.

The hon. member for Foothills.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Madam Speaker, I hope that the Liberal members are paying very close attention. What they are trying to do also permanently curtails my voice, and the voice of others who are sitting here, with respect to the amount of time and the different mechanisms at our disposal to raise issues that our constituents bring to us, the issues they elected us to represent them on.

The Liberals are going to eliminate our ability to discuss committee reports. They are going to eliminate the ability of members of Parliament to move procedural motions and to do such things as adjourn debate or move that a member now be heard. As members of Parliament, we have many of these tools at our disposal to ensure that we hold the government to account, and the Liberals are trying to take those tools away.

That is what has been happening at the procedure and House affairs committee. The government has shown very little willingness to work with the opposition parties to come up with solutions that all of us can agree on. I hope the Liberal backbenchers are paying very close attention to what is occurring in the House right now, because sooner or later, though they might not like it, they will be in opposition, and when that time comes, they will have to reap what they sow. Right now they are robbing the opposition of all of the critical tools we have to do our job and hold the government to account. Whatever party is in government when the Liberals are relegated to the opposition and pounding on the desks about how unfair these Standing Orders are, it will be interesting to see if that government will be keen to change the rules back to their advantage.

The opposition parties do not always have to agree. However, when we are talking about the fundamental rights of the opposition, the integrity of our parliamentary institutions, and the ability of MPs to do their job without impediment, when we come together to challenge the abuses being imposed on us by the government, that is when we should be coming together. We do not want to set a precedent of the government making unilateral changes to the way our democracy works to its own advantage. I think the government members can understand that this would be a problem, because they will not be in government forever.

The House does not belong to the executive branch. The House of Commons belongs to each and every member of Parliament, to every one of us as parliamentarians. We must be free to do our job without impediment, without intimidation, and without interference. We must be able to speak for our constituents. It is for us to decide how we govern ourselves in this place. We are not to be told how to govern ourselves by the executive branch.

The purpose of these rules is to protect the rights and voices of the minorities in this House. They are a crucial part of our democracy. They are not there to make this place more predictable and more convenient for the government and they are not there to give the government an audience. They are there to hold the government to account. When members are denied the right to vote, we do not expect the government to take action against members of Parliament by cutting off their right to debate. We expect the rights of the minority to be protected. That is what the House rules do. That is what we are doing here when we talk about privilege: we are protecting the rights of the minority, protecting the rights of each individual member of Parliament.

That is why, as government in the last Parliament, never once did we propose changing these rules without the consent of all of the other parties. That is why the only changes ever made by the Conservatives to the Standing Orders were made with the consent of all opposition parties.

Many of my colleagues have pointed out that Jean Chrétien, Stephen Harper, and Paul Martin, all previous prime ministers, sought the consensus of the opposition parties before making fundamental changes to the Standing Orders and how the House of Commons operates. However, the Liberal government is eager to make unilateral changes to the Standing Orders without allowing a meaningful voice to the opposition.

It was not without hard work and filibustering at the PROC committee for weeks that the Liberals have now removed some of the more controversial points in the discussion paper from their proposed reforms. However, this does not change the overall tone of the government, its blatant disregard for the privileges of all members of this place, and the important role the opposition has in holding the government to account.

We are now at the point where the government has sought to adjourn the debate on the question of privilege without a vote. We have arrived at this place, and this point of debate, because of the efforts of the Liberals to force through unilateral changes to the Standing Orders.

The Speaker quite wisely ruled that it was not appropriate for the debate to simply end at that point, and the possibility of a motion to discuss this was brought forward at committee. It does not replace the important decision on what is happening here. It needed to happen in the House of Commons. It needs to be followed by a vote in the House of Commons and to then go to the procedure and House affairs committee.

Never before in the history of this place has a matter of privilege been dealt with in this way. Never before has a government shut down and prevented all 338 members of the House from voting on a matter of privilege. Shutting down debate on a question of privilege and moving on to orders of the day is simply unprecedented. When members of Parliament are denied the right to vote on whether it was a violation of privilege, we see the arrogance of the Liberal government, and it is unprecedented.

My colleague from the New Democratic Party made an excellent point in his speech when he was explaining why the question of privilege is so important. He said, “Access to the Hill is a very important issue. However, the problem is the government unilaterally decided, as has been the style for several months now, to put an end to this debate, which sends the message that the members' privilege is not as important” and we have to move on to one bill or another.

The Liberals are fighting against the right of their own colleagues from Milton and Beauce to be heard at PROC. They are our colleagues, all of us together in the House. Are the rights of all members of Parliament to represent our constituents not something we all should be fighting for? If so, why will you not fight for it?